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We have a variety of views. Let's see what the breakdown is. I will make the poll anonymous, but you can state what you wish in then thread. I apologize in advance if you do not like the choices. The poll will stay open indefinitely. You may only pick one poll option.
As most of you would imagine, I picked choice 1, God is the Christian God.
I don't think its 50/50.
There are plenty of forum members that don't subscribe to any of the Abrahamic traditions but seem sure there is an omnipotent entity.
I actually think it takes a lot of strength to discard the notion of god's, contrary to popular opinion. I also don't think most atheists are immoral or even amoral which is also counter to the prevailing thoughts around here.
Jewish atheism is not the same thing either, this stems from a completely different view of god where 'god' is not so much an all powerful entity as it is the will of the Jewish people themselves. I've written about this aspect of Jewish atheism before.
Contrary to popular opinion, only Jews think that they can be atheists, non-Jewish atheists are a threat to Jewish ideology and thus they treat them with a profound contempt that is worse than the mere ridicule reserved for Christians.
Just clearing the air preemptively before all the chest nuts get paraded out...
I think we should have a poll as to determine the available choices of this poll.
I don't think the options quite cover everything. I won't claim the below description is the end of the discussion, but I think this perspective is one to consider:
Deity
The Gnostic God concept is more subtle than that of most religions. In its way, it unites and reconciles the recognitions of Monotheism and Polytheism, as well as of Theism, Deism and Pantheism.
http://gnosis.org/images/blakewe1.jpg
In the Gnostic view, there is a true, ultimate and transcendent God, who is beyond all created universes and who never created anything in the sense in which the word “create” is ordinarily understood. While this True God did not fashion or create anything, He (or, It) “emanated” or brought forth from within Himself the substance of all there is in all the worlds, visible and invisible. In a certain sense, it may therefore be true to say that all is God, for all consists of the substance of God. By the same token, it must also be recognized that many portions of the original divine essence have been projected so far from their source that they underwent unwholesome changes in the process. To worship the cosmos, or nature, or embodied creatures is thus tantamount to worshipping alienated and corrupt portions of the emanated divine essence.
The basic Gnostic myth has many variations, but all of these refer to Aeons, intermediate deific beings who exist between the ultimate, True God and ourselves. They, together with the True God, comprise the realm of Fullness (Pleroma) wherein the potency of divinity operates fully. The Fullness stands in contrast to our existential state, which in comparison may be called emptiness.
One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view. In the course of her journeyings, Sophia came to emanate from her own being a flawed consciousness, a being who became the creator of the material and psychic cosmos, all of which he created in the image of his own flaw. This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker and by his cosmic minions, the Archons or “rulers”.
I am somewhere between a deist and a doubter of the existence of a god. I voted for deist here. In terms of strength of society I think people in general where better off prior to the dominance of monotheism.
I don't think most non-Jewish atheists are immoral either, but it's only because of Christian influence most were exposed to from an early age, when the US was a mostly a Christian society.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze
With with Christainity waning today and Jewish atheism filling the void, being pushed on society, new generations of atheists are becoming less moral then previous generations. It's easy to see with homosexuality now being promoted as normal and healthy.
I often use an analogy with non-Jewish atheists, "what keeps them from killing their neighbor to take what they have?" If they knew they would not be caught and put in prison, there would be no reason not to kill...would there?
Does anyone not see, it is Jewish atheists that run/control everything that is important to society.
It is Jewish atheists that also control and profit from everything evil in society.
It always amazes me that most Christains worship these white/Christian hating Jewish atheist and even place them above themselves and their country.
If you think they are actually atheists in the non-jewish sense, then I have have to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
As I've stated before in not so many words their needs from a 'god' has changed considerably from their tribal days pre OT.
Today, they neither fear their god nor worship him. He is merely a vehicle for the dominance of the jewish people over non-jews. Their understanding of their 'god' today is merely symbolic of some divine right the jewish people reserve strictly for themselves. It is an anthropomorphic representation of their desires and nothing more. To them their is no moral imperative that would ever override the prime jewish directive of survival and subordination of non-jews. They reserve the right to use god as vehicle to dominate on the one hand and on the other to utterly discard the concept when they see fit.
This is hardly the same as a non jewish atheist.
As far as moral action is concerned, there is none greater than the desire to see ones offspring survive and thrive, this is what ultimately governs moral behaviors in close social circles, the rest is just invective righteousness invented with little purpose other than dominance. This 'moral' code doesn't require invention through religious thought, it is inherent.
I'm not sure I understand this? My reference was to Jewish born people, people that call themselves Jews and atheists.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze
I don't agree that moral code is inherent. Man is not born with it.Quote:
As far as moral action is concerned, there is none greater than the desire to see ones offspring survive and thrive, this is what ultimately governs moral behaviors in close social circles, the rest is just invective righteousness invented with little purpose other than dominance. This 'moral' code doesn't require invention through religious thought, it is inherent.
Many in the world have no moral code. Where is their inherent moral code?
As far as survival of your offspring, what keeps you from killing anyone that treats your child poorly?
What keeps you from killing another child that bullies, or hits your child? Only the threat of prison, by man's laws?
I dont know for sure... but I am pretty sure there is no magic man in the sky that created everything Nor does he/she do anything when people pray for things to happen! Here are the questions that always come to me when I ponder the possibility of a god.
Why would a supreme being have to create people and require them to worship him? And be so punitive to punish people that dont... and punish them for eternity! WOW... such a prick! Is god insecure or have a megalomaniac mind set?
Why does anyone with such powers need this worship? Seems odd. Also if god created EVERYTHING... where did he exist before he created everything? In another dimension? If so then he didnt create everything because at some point their would be nothing and nowhere to exist for himself.
To me god is a fix for the basic insecurity that we animals with self awareness created to placate our fears about death and the unknown. I am content to live my life... die and return to the elements that I am made of to nourish future generations of life on our planet. I need no place to go when I die to live for eternity with god and my loved ones.
There are and have been many religions and views of what god is... Why now is this one the only true god? I am sure all the other people around the world and through time felt that their god(s) were also the true god too! Religion and the believe in a god is used to control the populous! Always has and always will!
Beautifully put.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Its the simplicity of atheism which I find actually opens up the real beauty of the universe with all its conundrums and isolation, it has a sweet melancholy that few believers can appreciate.
Nothing, other than shared interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
With all due respect, a belief in god doesn't prevent any of these things from happening either....
1. Can you tell me of anything in existance that wasn't created by something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
2. Have you ever seen a miracle, or had a brush with death?
Religious teachings can be extreme, but are they reality?Quote:
Why would a supreme being have to create people and require them to worship him? And be so punitive to punish people that dont... and punish them for eternity! WOW... such a prick! Is god insecure or have a megalomaniac mind set?
Q. Why do you think you are 'required' to worship God?
Q. Can you think of anyone that should be punished for eternity?
There again, religious teachings can be extreme.Quote:
Why does anyone with such powers need this worship? Seems odd. Also if god created EVERYTHING... where did he exist before he created everything? In another dimension? If so then he didnt create everything because at some point their would be nothing and nowhere to exist for himself.
Q. Do you believe anything is/can be infinate, eternal?
Yes, you will return to the elements that you are made of...one little detail though, where does the energy/life-force go?Quote:
To me god is a fix for the basic insecurity that we animals with self awareness created to placate our fears about death and the unknown. I am content to live my life... die and return to the elements that I am made of to nourish future generations of life on our planet. I need no place to go when I die to live for eternity with god and my loved ones.
I think you have this part somewhat figured out. Religion is a construct by man. Religion is used, belief is not.Quote:
There are and have been many religions and views of what god is... Why now is this one the only true god? I am sure all the other people around the world and through time felt that their god(s) were also the true god too! Religion and the believe in a god is used to control the populous! Always has and always will!
i'm middle aged. lately maybe in .the last few years i've had some strange experiences that in my opinion ca not be coincidences. there is something! a force beneficial for all living things! i can not put my hand on it but i see it and benefit from it frequently. speak it! receivce it! be careful what you wish for you just might get it! wo weeks in a row. on a friday about 11pm i was wide awake, bored. i decided to rewire an old black fan. i only had brown, white or clear cord. i needed black. i said to myself i need some black cord. i dont have it so ill use clear. did the job. woke up saturday went to the flea market. bingo!there was a man with two rolls of black cord. this happens so much its too much for a coincidence! just one example of man that i cant explain.
In my view, krishnamurti and walter russell are the most influential thinkers. I am a pantheist as I hold the belief that the universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with God.
When Mind Consciousness dawns in man, God awareness likewise dawns in him, and he becomes illumined with full knowing of the Oneness of Mind of man and Mind of God.
God's Mind (the Aether) is absolute Stillness and Love [non dual)... to manifest itself to us, God's Mind divided itself... into positive and negative... electromagnetism, Life Force without which the Universe (and all creatures within) wouldn't exist.
Not understanding the above, causes evil... hence allowed by God. God will not stop evil... humans will, should they begin to grasp the true nature of their positive and negative experiences, emotions and senses.
the bible conveys the duality of God's Mind - manifestation:
Isaiah 45:7 -- I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
... it is up us to chose Good over Evil (being satanic or not in christian terms)...
edit
I for one believe that the comprehension of the nature and origins of electromagnetism offers the only way to bridge spirituality and sciences. Where rationality and metaphysics come together...
I also voted for Pantheist. From all of my reading into Near Death Experiences and reincarnation accounts this one makes the most sense to me.
Is it right for everyone? Of course not. Your relationship with the creator should be personal. If you choose to have a personal relationship that is. Atheist choose not too, and that is of their own free will.
"Does God exist, and specifically what is His nature."
You're implying it's a him, and there's only one.
"I subscribe to deism but unspecific" ... WOW ... what does that mean ?"
I am certain that creatures/things/beings with Godlike abilities exist.
I use the term thing, not to 'dis' God, but because I lack knowledge of his nature.
Only know that he/she/they exist.
What also seems very probable to me is that there is more than one such creature/thing/being, that has the capacity to effect us on Earth.
But that is my own logic & conclusion.
Humans are social creatures, that live in societies, and like other social animals in herds, we have moral codes in terms of what is acceptable behavior, most animals/humans adhere to these moral codes, the exception in normal circumstances is certain individuals who seem to have no regard for these rules, among humans we call them psychopaths or sociopaths... In extraordinary circumstances, dis-solution of society, starvation and unrest, more people are prepared to do wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Does Christianity bring about a different moral code? Possibly, but to be honest I think for instance Italy and Turkey has more in common morally/culturally than Italy and Sweden, and probably Viking Era Scandinavia has more moral connectiveness with today's Sweden than modern Italy and Sweden.A lawyer I know in Turkey was amazed when she found out that contracts didn't need to be notarized in Sweden to be admissible in a court at a later date. She started learning Swedish... It used to be that the word of a man was to be trusted, now with import of turd worlders it's changing...
Anyway I think morality is a genetic trait to a large extent, but you grow into it and depending on upbringing it can be enhanced or diminished!
Agnostic is the way for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Tagged.
Does God exist? God IS Existence. To ask if God exists is the same as asking if existence exists.
Do you exist? If you do exist then God exists. There is no alternative.
when I see the hate that avowed satan worshippers have toward christians (and basically all caucasians as they are all bundled together in this ideology), I don't worry about those who believe in God. I worry about those who believe in the other side. That is the main threat at the moment. They are the ones currently running the show.
The greater question is whether Santa exists then... An important question to many innocent souls and almost always lied about... Really! WTF is it with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa
their more then meets the eyes . their got to be something bigger and greater then me an you
1. Can you tell me of anything in existence that wasn't created by something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
The point is, everything created has a "creator". What the creator is, is another matter we don't have to agree on.Quote:
Created is a term with many definitions. Yes I believe things are created... but not by a magic invisible being.
To answer my own question about 'anything that wasn't created'. The answer is 'Energy'. Energy can neither be created, or destroyed.
It is that same energy that is our spark of life and that of God. Maybe we are all part of God?
2. Have you ever seen a miracle, or had a brush with death?
Do you not view the gift of life, a women giving birth, a miracle?Quote:
No miracles... nothing like walking on water or water to wine type of things. I dont call people surviving an acciedent a miracle!... Brush with death... Yes many... So what? Prove that a god had anything to do with them.
I think at the time life starts and when near death, many people can feel this life force energy around us.
Maybe you never have?
Religious teachings can be extreme, but are they reality?
Q. Why do you think you are 'required' to worship God?
Q. Can you think of anyone that should be punished for eternity?
This is where myself and many will disagree. I believe the bible has been subverted by the Jews.Quote:
A. Because it is written that if you do not follow gods laws you will suffer eternal suffering and torment. By following gods laws you are tantamount worshiping his being.Praying on your knees is a sign of bowing down to their authority.
I do not think Jesus was a Jew, but isn't it convenient to have written in the bible one must worship a Jew?
Does the evil of truely evil people die with them?Quote:
A. No not really.... you are asking a very vague question. I believe if we are to put people in jail for a crime. they should not be mistreated... and the punishment should be for a stated time... not eternity! Even when prisoners are given a life sentence... death ends that at some point!
There again, religious teachings can be extreme.
Q. Do you believe anything is/can be infinate, eternal?
This is the ultimate question no one can answer. If God is finite, what is on the other side of God?Quote:
A. Dont know and dont really care. Probably not. Why cannot god be finite too?
If the universe is finite, what is on the other side of it?
Yes, you will return to the elements that you are made of...one little detail though, where does the energy/life-force go?
I think you have this part somewhat figured out. Religion is a construct by man. Religion is used, belief is not.
I highlighted the part of your statement I totally agree with!Quote:
I only believe in things I can taste, touch, see, hear or smell! Faith is a very misguided concept. Why would anyone risk their core beliefs to people that they have never known or under what circumstances they wrote what they did. God nor any supernatural being has ever shown themselves to me in any manner! Even though I was at one time on a quest for such knowledge. Until that day I choose the path of rationality and not speculative imaginations about a deity.
Sorry you are not able to see what God has shown to you. That is your ability to think, to love and witness the miracle of life.
My experience from many years ago showed me once that all everything without exception is one energy from one source which is infinite and eternal and sounds a bit like the roar you get with a sea shell put to your ear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa
To try and pin this down with words , ideas , even religion is some what a futile task but hey, good luck.
Neither male nor female but one complete energy.
It has NO name.
All things are a part of this without exception .
So if a person gains this understanding then all things become a reflection of this creating (as opposed to the word creator,which is the past tense) including them selves , and so in this way everything could be realized or seen as being from one source.
We can create separation with our minds and create an ego we can call ourselves made up of mind fragments and view the outside world as suspicious if we want to , but this is on the level of the mind.
By seeing from the level of the spirit or soul things appear differently then seeing from the level of the mind , which basically uses ideas ,memories , comparisons , concepts ect.
Seeing from the level of the spirit or soul requires little if any thought/emotion as we have gone one step further and you basically end up living in freedom...........................
This freedom is ................freedom from our own MINDS and EMOTIONS , FREEDOM FROM OURSELVES..................
If a person can /does/becomes truly conscious do you think they will be having self doubts from an over active paranoid mind.......... not likely..........because they will be awake and conscious in the present moment which is all that exists, all that will ever exist and is termed eternity. The eternal now.
Eternity isnt a concept or an idea in our heads , its real and is with us always.
Peace and love brothers and sisters.................
Are you thinking this 'I'* part of you will DIE??Quote:
I am content to live my life... die and return to the elements
*NOT the vessel but the consciousness which dwells within the vessel
"...there is no such thing as death..." --Bill Hicks
He exists for sure. I think more in a Jesus just left Chicago style though.
Still has all the omnipotent power, just isn't hung up on it like people make Him out to be.
TRUE THAT !Quote:
Originally Posted by govcheetos
Oh my God ! My Ebonic-y street talk slipped out !
I think God generally does not micro-manage.
When God becomes involved in people's lives, I think it is sometimes as described in Luke 1-27-38, which perhaps not coincidentally reads like some people's UFO encounters.
in that section of Luke, Mary is visited by Angels who tell her she will have a special baby.
I think the description of God as adopting a Human Form, has some truth.
As is shown in the movie 'Contact', Jodie Foster's angel takes on the appearance of her father.
Look what happened to Jesus, He came in a human form and they STILL beat him to death (Roman Soldiers doing the bidding of the Jewish priests ?)
Imagine what they would have done if Jesus had shown up as a pip-squeak gray alien looking thing, which used telepathy instead of speaking Aramaic out loud.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...h=Luke+1:27-38
" 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her."
I believe that Mary was visited by an Angel, and that Angel was effectively doing the work of 'God'.
But I am projecting when I say that. Who knows, maybe the whole biblical history is the result of one of the Angels going off on a Meth Bender.
My guess also is that the Angels often are humanoid in form. That would make contact with them less scary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fETEkrkTdHcQuote:
Originally Posted by govcheetos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fETEkrkTdHc
One could for instance lump Chrisitianity with deism. I only meant the traditional deism which rejects a specific named God, but does not reject that there is "some" higher power. Thomas Jefferson for instance was a deist.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller
God exists regardless of whether His creations want to acknowledge or accept His existence.
I've never met an "atheist" who does not hate God for some trauma or major "slight" in their earlier life. Spiritual development was retarded or degenerated, and denial of His existence is "punishment" in their minds & hearts.
Do you have kids? Do you want them to love you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Our very existence is dependent upon God. Matter itself is frozen energy, held together by the "mind" of Jesus Christ, as Paul inferred.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Those who do not want a relationship with God are honored in their mistaken choice, and receive "separation" from God in the next phase of existence. Exactly what that entails I do not know, but I believe the "eternal fire" was an illustration for less sophisticated minds that represented never ending destruction (non-existence, erasure from the Universe).
Do you crave love from your children, or even your pets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Simply, yes. "Another dimension" is the best that our minds can fathom at this point. More accurately, though, above our dimension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Goldissima and others often mention the "holographic universe." I agree with some aspects of that theory, especially as put forth by Michael Talbot. The "holographic universe" is a projection from the Mind of God. The entirety of our reality. Trying to "figure out" where God "came from" is both foolish and irrelevant.
The Luciferians have fought for millennia to lower God's finest creation, humans, to the level of animals. The organized attack on theism, especially Christianity, in the last two centuries has been led by the Luciferians (Judeo-Freemasons, "Illuminati," etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
We are not merely meat machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Of all the man-made gods throughout history, only One is still standing with any credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
Religion is man-made, like so many gods. The Almighty, however, is not man-made, and has no need for what is commonly referred to as "religion." In that sense, you are right, religions are created as social control apparatus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Rogue
when you see a hill a river bird can anyone here make the stuff that they see around them
As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze
[“Das Wesen der Materie” (The Nature of Matter), speech at Florence, Italy, 1944 (from Archiv zur Geschichte der Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, Abt. Va, Rep. 11 Planck, Nr. 1797]
I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
[The Observer, January 25th, 1931]
Max Planck
As I gained in age and experience, my interest shifted from the scientific toward the mystical. I found that any branch of science pursued to its peripheries ended in mystery. Man could neither explain the miracle of creation or the fact of his awareness, nor conceive the end of space and time. The miracles of science and technology become trivial in the face of the unknowable.
[Autobiography of Values]
Charles A. Lindbergh
Christianity – Religion of the WestQuote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
http://www.heretical.com/miscella/oliver1.html
I'm a Christian with a few Deist tendancies , or so I think.
I am a front porch baptish , on sunday I set in my swing knowing I cannot make the stuff I see around me