Whole house generator?

[skid]

Okay, run diesels, I don't care. I've got 3 of them and know the advantages and disadvantages. I have worked on megawatt level diesel generators and know the ins and outs. Propane works great for me and most other people with no major disadvantages.

Funny how the industrial diesel generator industry doesn't run Listers though. Must not have your knowledge Midnight LOL.

And hitch, after giving some thought to your situation you must be keeping your diesel cool down near the water. Warmer temperatures likely shorten diesel life.

Also if you live in a cold climate make sure you fill your tank with winter diesel or it may gel and not start in the winter if you use summer diesel.

[midnight rambler]

Funny how the industrial diesel generator industry doesn't run Listers though.

That's just an ignorant statement. Lister CS engines were first introduced in 1929 as a 9 HP version and were never more powerful than 38 HP. They are very low RPM primitive engines that can run continuously for decades in many applications. Many were used in marine applications because they are so reliable. Listers are SMALL engines so why would "the industrial diesel generator industry" even be interested in small, low RPM engines?? (Let's not forget that the EPA banned the importation of Listeroids from India. Also, the Lister Co. in England discontinued the production of all their CS engines in the early '70s and because there were a lot of Lister CS engines at work in India therefore there was a need the Indians started producing the CS engines after Lister discontinued production) However for anyone considering home power generation/co-generation Listeroids are perfectly suited.

FWIW, LPG has 26% less BTUs than gasoline and costs more than gasoline. Sure, LPG will store indefinitely but dayum, the cost of those large capacity storage tanks. And then there's the potential for zero availability of LPG in the future. I'll just continue to go scourge drums and waste oil/atf...

[Hitch]

IMO, midnight is right. Lister is the perfect diesel engine for a generator. Diesels like to run, we've run the same generator at work for weeks at a time, pausing only to check the oil. Diesels like a constant rpm, which is perfect for a generator, and a Lister will run on damn near anything, old diesel, vegetable oil, etc. Perfect for prepping.

Propane, one small bullet hole in the tank from a zombie attacker and you got a big problem.

[skid]

IMO, midnight is right. Lister is the perfect diesel engine for a generator. Diesels like to run, we've run the same generator at work for weeks at a time, pausing only to check the oil. Diesels like a constant rpm, which is perfect for a generator, and a Lister will run on damn near anything, old diesel, vegetable oil, etc. Perfect for prepping.

Propane, one small bullet hole in the tank from a zombie attacker and you got a big problem.

Sure go ahead and buy a lister. If you can find one. There's probably a reason for that. LOL I'm sure I'm a Cannin can get one going right quick and hook it up to her low rpm generator she just happened to buy from Home Depot. Then she can go to the junkyard and drain some oil out of a tranny to keep it going. Face it, a Lister is a niche item for people who like to tinker, a lot.

Despite Hitches questionable experience, diesel fuel just doesn't store long, especially if it has some biodiesel in it which most do have nowadays. Diesel starts breaking down as soon as it leaves the refinery. Recommended storage life is 6 months to one year - https://www.bellperformance.com/blog...-storage-tanks. If hitch had any sense he would polish his 15 year old fuel on a regular basis before he kills his engine.

A bullet hole in your diesel or gas tank would be troublesome as well. Lots of videos on You Tube showing diesel tank fires. If you are worried about such things you could buy an underground propane tank or protect it with a berm or concrete barrier. Mine's hidden so you wouldn't even know it's there. I'd also be a lot more concerned about people stealing my diesel or gasoline vs propane. And it appears that a bullet through a propane tank won't cause an explosion, just a leak.

[Hitch]

If hitch had any sense he would polish his 15 year old fuel on a regular basis before he kills his engine.

Now why would I polish the fuel, when I have clean filters and the engine running great? I've already explained what I do (and it works) and has worked for the past 15 years. It's simple, yet you have no reasons why it would NOT work. Oh...right, in theory Hitch is wrong. Got it.

Simple, yet self proclaimed geniuses can't comprehend. Again. Full tank (no air for bacteria). Pri-D, you've yet to comment on this product I swear by. Run engine every month.

[hoarder]

So called disadvantages:
-Low BTU/larger engine - Really? you would be hard pressed to notice that. Not only that but regular gas has ethanol which has less BTU's than propane.

About 30% less power from same displacement gasoline engine.

-Harder to start - What? Never had an issue starting a propane powered engine unless its 30 below 0

I have. Propane, being a gas, displaces air in the intake manifold whereas gasoline only occupies a small space. You have to deal with gas pressure issues too. Most people don't know what 8 ounces per square inch means, don't have the means to measure it. Then you have freezing problems at pressure drop and the possibility of gas leaking past the regulator. I only run non ethanol gas, so no storage issues.

-Fuel storage - What? are propane tanks harder to store than Jerry cans or larger gas/diesel tanks

More container weight per hour of run time.

I worked on natural gas powered engines in the oilfield for 15 years so I understand the advantages. We had some 1197 Waukeshas that had 60,000 hours on the bottom end.....but they ran 900 RPM. Like propane, natural gas is slow burning fuel and even advancing the timing to 30 degrees BTDC is not enough, you have to slow that baby down. Some of our natural gas engines ran 285 RPM constantly.
Also, propane eats up valve seats much faster than gasoline.

Gasoline is the ideal fuel for high RPM engines.

[hoarder]

The old CS low RPM Listers were good, but the China/India knock offs are very problematic. I wouldn't bother.

Many old school generators had to be designed for continuous duty. There are 8760 hours in a year. Most modern engines of any kind fail by 6000-8000 hours. The original CS Listers ran 20,000 hours easy, but so did the 1800 RPM Listers that they made in the 70's and early 80's, like the ST2 I had. It used 4/10 of a gallon an hour running a 7500 watt Lima generator.
In the mid 80's, Lister got bought out and became Lister-Petter, the latter did not last anywhere near that long.

Most modern 1800 RPM diesels will go 8000 hours if taken care of, which is reasonable enough, but now they all want to put 3600 RPM engines in all the small diesel generator packages. No thanks.

[Hitch]

We have a piece of equipment at work with Cat 3508 diesels, over 25,000 hours on them. I don't even need to add oil to them. They fire up every time. The number of recommended hours on a diesel is very conservative. We have northern lights gensets, cummins engines, running great at 15,000 plus hours on them. You'd think they were new. A good diesel running at a constant rpm, low rpm 1800 or less, seems to just last forever.

[monty]

About 30% less power from same displacement gasoline engine. I have. Propane, being a gas, displaces air in the intake manifold whereas gasoline only occupies a small space. You have to deal with gas pressure issues too. Most people don't know what 8 ounces per square inch means, don't have the means to measure it. Then you have freezing problems at pressure drop and the possibility of gas leaking past the regulator. I only run non ethanol gas, so no storage issues. More container weight per hour of run time.

I worked on natural gas powered engines in the oilfield for 15 years so I understand the advantages. We had some 1197 Waukeshas that had 60,000 hours on the bottom end.....but they ran 900 RPM. Like propane, natural gas is slow burning fuel and even advancing the timing to 30 degrees BTDC is not enough, you have to slow that baby down. Some of our natural gas engines ran 285 RPM
constantly.
Also, propane eats up valve seats much faster than gasoline.

Gasoline is the ideal fuel for high RPM engines.

Stellite exhaust valves and hardened steel valves seats are a must in propane engines.

[ImaCannin]

Thanks everyone for your input. You all brought up some things to think about. However, I have a propane tank, can easily store enough to get me through a SHTF situation. I don’t have a gas or diesel tank. I can hide a propane tank in the ground and it would be harder for joe blow to steal a few gallons here or there. So I am back to my original question.... I am off grid now, I have propane dryer, stove, refrigerator, and working on a propane freezer. At the current time, I run a Honda 3000 gas generator twice a day for any power I need , including my AC freezers. I bought a LP conversation kit for the Honda but have not installed it yet. I think we are using about 5 gallons of gas a week . I wanted to get a back up to my Honda 3000, which was the reason for this post. I was thinking of a smaller whole house generator in propane, but don’t have a clue on which one to look at, or I could buy a second Honda , put a conversion kit on it and have my back up. We originally planned on solar, but we keep getting dinked around and I fear that we won’t have enough time to get it up and running before it’s too late. We have been waiting a month for our deep cell batteries to come in. We are living on minimal power right now.

OR do you have any other thoughts?

Thanks again....