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Thread: Argument against gold

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    Unobtanium EE_'s Avatar
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    Argument against gold

    You've heard them all before...
    Funny thing to see Wall Street pushing stocks and bitcoin, when all 'their' same arguments about gold, can be said about bitcoin.
    The only difference I see, is stocks and bitcoin keep your money in 'their' rigged game, moving back and forth and in and out.
    Gold takes your money out of 'their' rigged game. You are in control.

    There’s Just Not Enough Gold to Support the Money Supply
    Not Enough Gold to Support Global Trade
    Gold Doesn’t Offer Yield


    Arguments Against Gold And Why They Are Wrong
    Last Updated: November 16, 2020/Derek Wolfe

    Gold is in the early stages of its third great bull run that will take it to record heights.

    The first two great bull markets were 1971-1980 (gold up 2,200%) and 1999-2011 (gold up 760%). After peaking in 2011, gold fell sharply from that peak to below $1,100 per ounce by 2015.

    Now the third great bull market is underway. It began on December 16, 2015, when gold bottomed at $1,050 per ounce at the end of the 2011-2015 bear market. Since then, gold is up significantly, but it’s small change compared to 2,200% and 760% gains in the last two bull markets.

    Still, most mainstream economists dismiss gold. They call it a barbarous relic and say it has no place in today’s monetary system.

    But today, I want to remind you of the three main arguments mainstream economists make against gold and why they’re dead wrong.

    There’s Just Not Enough Gold to Support the Money Supply!

    The first one you may have heard many times. “Experts” say there’s not enough gold to support a global financial system. Gold can’t support all the world’s paper money, its assets and liabilities, its expanded balance sheets of all the banks and the financial institutions in the world. They say there’s not enough gold to support that money supply.

    That argument is complete nonsense. It’s true that there’s a limited quantity of gold. But more importantly, there’s always enough gold to support the financial system. The key is to set its price correctly.

    It is true that at today’s price of about $1,875 an ounce, pegging it to the existing money supply would be highly deflationary.

    But to avoid that, all we have to do is increase the gold price. In other words, take the amount of existing gold, place it at, say, $14,000 an ounce, and there’s plenty of gold to support the money supply.

    In other words, a certain amount of gold can always support any amount of money supply if its price is set properly. There can be a debate about the proper gold price, but there’s no real doubt that we have enough gold to support the monetary system. I’ve done that calculation, and it’s fairly simple. It’s not complicated mathematics.

    Just take the amount of money supply in the world, the amount of physical gold in the world, divide one by the other, and there’s the gold price.

    You do have to make some assumptions, however. For example, do you want the money supply backed 100% by gold, or is 40% sufficient? Or maybe 20%? Those are legitimate policy issues that can be debated. I’ve done the calculations for all of them. I assumed 40% gold backing.

    Some economists say it should be higher, but I think 40% is reasonable.

    Using existing money supply, a 40% gold backing, and available gold supplies, the implied non-deflationary price of gold is $14,000 per ounce (and getting higher as money supply expands).

    Governments are desperate to overcome disinflation and deflation. Excessive debt loads are a headwind to growth and cause precautionary savings, both of which are deflationary. The only reliable way to break the back of deflation (and, no, money printing does not work) is to devalue the dollar against gold.

    This was done in 1933 and 1971, and it worked to create inflation both times. An 85% devaluation of the dollar (about the devaluation achieved in the 1970s) will inflate away the debt burden, stimulate nominal growth and result in a gold price of $15,000 per ounce.

    But again, it’s important to realize that there’s always enough gold to meet the needs of the financial system. You just need to get the price right.

    Regardless, my research has led me to one conclusion — we’re going to see the collapse of the international monetary system. When I say that, I specifically mean a collapse in confidence in paper currencies around the world. It’s not just the death of the dollar, or the demise of the euro, it’s a collapse in confidence of all paper currencies.

    When confidence is lost, central banks may have to revert to gold either as a benchmark or an actual gold standard to restore confidence. That wouldn’t be by choice. No central banker would ever willingly choose to go back on a gold standard.

    But in a scenario where there’s a total loss in confidence, they’ll likely have to go back to some form of a gold standard.

    If you’re going to have a gold standard or even use gold as a reference point for money, if you need to restore confidence in the dollar, the implied non-deflationary price is $15,000 an ounce.

    Not Enough Gold to Support Global Trade

    The second argument raised against gold is that it cannot support the growth of world trade and commerce because it doesn’t grow fast enough. The world’s mining output is about 1.6% of total gold stocks (global gold production has actually flatlined at around 3,300 metric tonnes for the past five years). World growth (leaving 2020 out because of COVID) is roughly 3–4% a year. It varies, but let’s assume 3–4%.

    Critics say if world growth is about 3–4% a year and gold only grows at 1.6%, then gold doesn’t grow fast enough to support world trade. A gold standard therefore gives the system a deflationary bias. But that’s also nonsense, because mining output has nothing to do with the ability of central banks to expand the gold supply.

    The reason is that official gold, the gold owned by central banks and finance ministries, is somewhere about 35,000 tons. Total gold, including privately held gold, is about 180,000 tons. That’s 145,000 tons of private gold outside the official gold supply.

    If any central bank wants to expand the money supply, all it has to do is print money and buy some of the private gold. Central banks are not constrained by mining output. They don’t have to wait for the miners to dig up gold if they want to expand the money supply. They simply have to buy some private gold through dealers in the marketplace.

    To argue that gold supplies don’t grow enough to support trade is an argument that sounds true on a superficial level. But when you analyze it further, you realize that’s nonsense. That’s because the gold supply added by mining is irrelevant since central banks can just buy private gold.

    Money Doesn’t Offer Yield

    The third argument you hear is that gold has no yield. That’s Warren Buffett’s main criticism of gold (even though he’s now invested in a gold stock). It’s true, but gold isn’t supposed to have a yield. Gold is money. And money doesn’t offer a yield.

    I was on Fox Business with Maria Bartiromo once. We had a discussion in the live interview when the issue came up. I said, “Maria, pull out a dollar bill, hold it up in front of you and look at it. Does it have a yield? No, of course it has no yield, money has no yield.”

    If you want yield, you have to take risk. You can put your money in the bank and get a little bit of yield — maybe half a percent. Probably not even that. But it’s not money anymore. When you put it in the bank, it’s not money. It’s a bank deposit. That’s an unsecured liability in an occasionally insolvent commercial bank.

    You can also buy stocks, bonds, real estate and many other things with your money. But when you do, it’s not money anymore. It’s some other asset, and they involve varying degrees of risk.

    The point simply is that if you want yield, you have to take risk. Physical gold doesn’t offer an official yield, but it doesn’t carry risk. It’s simply a way of preserving wealth. Gold is money.

    So, the three mainstream criticisms of gold don’t hold water once you actually analyze them properly.

    Now, the third great bull market in gold is underway, as I predict gold will reach $15,000 by 2026. Of course, nothing goes up in a straight line, and there will be pullbacks along the way. But the trend is up.

    I believe the primary way every investor should play the rise in gold is to own the physical metal directly. In fact, I always say that at least 10% of your investment portfolio should be devoted to physical gold — bars and coins primarily.

    Originally posted on Daily Reckoning

    https://gsiexchange.com/arguments-ag...hey-are-wrong/
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    Iridium monty's Avatar
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    Re: Argument against gold

    What he says is true. The jews controlling the banks will never allow gold and silver to be money
    The only thing declared necessary in the Constitution & Bill of Rights is the #2A Militia of the several States.
    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a freeState”
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    Unobtanium EE_'s Avatar
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    Re: Argument against gold

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    What he says is true. The jews controlling the banks will never allow gold and silver to be money
    Fuck the Jews, they will not take gold and silver away. As long as our country is still on a currency system, Gold and silver is our money. Once there is no currency and we are on a crypto digit system, it will be game over. Bullets will be the currency in that time. At some point, crypto investors should cash out for gold and silver. If you really want to beat the system.
    Promoting cryptos is helping the globalist win. I'm glad I don't have children to doom them by supporting the beast and their crypto new world order.
    DON'T TAKE THE VACCINE!

    THE SHIT HAS HIT THE FAN!

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    Re: Argument against gold

    Gold retains remedy at Law. Pay in paper and Equity will decide the outcome of your contracts.

    Use gold for land. Use silver for residential. One dollar is all it takes. You aren't trying to fund society. You are trying to retain a remedy in case the situation goes south.

    Listen to people try to explain this when they have no concept of the benefits.

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    Re: Argument against gold

    Quote Originally Posted by EE_ View Post
    Fuck the Jews, they will not take gold and silver away. As long as our country is still on a currency system, Gold and silver is our money. Once there is no currency and we are on a crypto digit system, it will be game over. Bullets will be the currency in that time. At some point, crypto investors should cash out for gold and silver. If you really want to beat the system.
    Promoting cryptos is helping the globalist win. I'm glad I don't have children to doom them by supporting the beast and their crypto new world order.
    They are already in control of the cryptos. Watch the pump and dump. They do it again and again.
    Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty." – Socrates


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    Re: Argument against gold

    Peter (Gold bug) Schiff has been preaching for years that the Dow and Gold would go 1 to 1 at the time of collapse, well, here we are and Gold is about 2,000 and it still takes 15 ounces to buy the Dow, however, you CAN buy the Dow with 1 Bitcoin and as of this post (34K) still have almost 4K left over.
    Is the (Jew) Schiff being real or has he just been a stooge/puppet all along? He sure got this one Wrong, DEAD WRONG!!
    Murder was the Catholic answer - Pope Francis

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    Unobtanium Shami-Amourae's Avatar
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    Re: Argument against gold

    The marketcap of Bitcoin will be greater than the marketcap of Gold in at least 10 years (8-12 Trillion?).
    Likely 5 years.

    Gold is a horrendous investment that hasn't even kept up with inflation for the past 10 years. You'd have more purchasing power if you left $100 in a bank that pays you 0.0001% interest than holding it in Gold.
    Never trust Boomers with investment wisdom: They are literally the stupidest generation in human history when it comes to finances.

    Gold mining techniques are getting better and better so the supply is inflating rapidly. Gold supply is always increasing, so it's not a reliable store of value anymore.

    That being said, Silver likely will 10x within the next few years, especially with more renewables coming online. You'd still do better holding your funds in Polkadot or Cardano.

    Gold will definitely go up, but the marketcap is being transfered to Bitcoin. People will sell Gold for Bitcoin and you'll see Bitcoin hit $1 million USD.

    (DavinciJ15 bought most of his Bitcoin at $1 and is a decamillionaire now.)

    I told you guys to buy Bitcoin since $4 and you almost all still ignore me and mock me.

    Listen to people who actually understand how the world works: The world is becoming digital. All legacy analog systems will go extinct.
    Humans rode horses for THOUSANDS of years. Then the automobile was invented. Everyone traded in their horses for cars. The world makes radical changes due to technology, you have to understand this. Gold is in the process of transitioning from a monetary metal to an industrial metal. Bitcoin will become the world reserve currency. It's digital gold.

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    Unobtanium Shami-Amourae's Avatar
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    Re: Argument against gold

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    They are already in control of the cryptos. Watch the pump and dump. They do it again and again.
    Not yet. They are trying to buy up the market, but it's causing the price to skyrocket. Grayscale alone buys up 100% of the Bitcoin supply that's newly mined, and like 4-6x of the rest on the open market. It's cause a liquidity shock which will cause Boomers to buy in at higher and higher prices since they don't listen to younger people who know what technology is.

    The funny thing is that they'll get more and more desperate to get Bitcoin that they'll keep printing dollars to buy it which will be the direct cause of hyperinflation.

    Most holders of Bitcoin are Libertarians/Cypherpunks.

    This is a transfer of wealth from bankers to Libertarians/Cypherpunks. We're overthrowing them right now.
    Coinbase and Binance will become the new JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs.
    Once we no longer need to offload crypto to dollars to buy things those will go down in favor of DEX's (Decentralized Exchanges).
    Things like Uniswap, Polkaswap, and other atomic exchanges will take over and those will be uncensorable.

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    Re: Argument against gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae View Post
    The marketcap of Bitcoin will be greater than the marketcap of Gold in at least 10 years (8-12 Trillion?).
    Likely 5 years.

    Gold is a horrendous investment that hasn't even kept up with inflation for the past 10 years. You'd have more purchasing power if you left $100 in a bank that pays you 0.0001% interest than holding it in Gold.
    Never trust Boomers with investment wisdom: They are literally the stupidest generation in human history when it comes to finances.


    I told you guys to buy Bitcoin since $4 and you almost all still ignore me and mock me.

    Listen to people who actually understand how the world works: The world is becoming digital. All legacy analog systems will go extinct.
    Humans rode horses for THOUSANDS of years. Then the automobile was invented. Everyone traded in their horses for cars. The world makes radical changes due to technology, you have to understand this. Gold is in the process of transitioning from a monetary metal to an industrial metal. Bitcoin will become the world reserve currency. It's digital gold.
    Shami, you seem to have some kind of persecution complex. I don't think anyone here has discounted your vision since we saw bitcoin play out. You have been correct and nobody here has denied it.

    I will point out a couple of items:

    The Amish distrusted electricity and the automobile. While the world moved on, the Amish kept plugging away. The Amish are the only people who have not lost their direction and have maintained their culture. They have prospered beyond anything we 'English' can lay claim to. We have been destroyed. I have watched farm auctions and seen the Amish buying up the land and the remnants of the destroyed farmers. Who knows what happened to all those families. The Amish have multiplied and guess what, they are mostly millionaires! I have been driving for them lately. The ones around here, have come from elsewhere. They have sold their farms for millions of dollars and bought cheaper land in more out of the way places and now they hire the English to be their drivers.

    I sit and watch these people while I wait to drive them from homestead to homestead as they visit their friends and families and they are party animals; not in the sense of drugs and dissolution, but they love to congregate and they are not afraid of each other and they don't wear masks or social distance.

    Secondly, I don't for an instant believe that the powers that shouldn't be have allowed bitcoin to take a slice of their action. No fucking way. It is their action. If it wasn't their action, they would make it their action. Nuff said.

    We shall see how it plays out.

    Lastly I will quote you again:

    "I told you guys to buy Bitcoin since $4 and you almost all still ignore me and mock me."

    Who is mocking you? You are the one that did not take your own advice and sold off your bitcoin for what now seems a pittance. We have not given you a scrap of shit for either your original advice nor your failure to follow your own advice but at this point, I personally, am getting tired of your whining.

    Now you say you are on your way to becoming a millionaire. Well cool. More power to ya.
    Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty." – Socrates


    "Communism can be summed up in one sentence: The abolition of private property." ---Karl Marx

    "Either you have the right to own property, or you are property." Wayne Hage

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    Iridium monty's Avatar
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    Re: Argument against gold

    I think that all that buying int the crypto market will feed the move to a technocratic New World Order. I could be wrong but without their digital currency they won’t be as likely to control everyone?
    The only thing declared necessary in the Constitution & Bill of Rights is the #2A Militia of the several States.
    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a freeState”
    https://ConstitutionalMilitia.org


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