Part 2 of 5


Dr. Stan: Of course one of the things that he talked about was how we were going to encourage people to buy foreign products because we were intentionally going to produce shabby cars in America so that people would buy Japanese. And of course, in 1969 most people would have thought that was crazy talk. What did he say along that line – with the idea that this would then justify the shifting of American industries to foreign countries?

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. This was to establish the global economy, the idea being that we would have one global worldwide commercial system. It wasn’t his term originally, but he alluded to what they call “the declaration of interdependence.” I think it was Buckminster Fuller who wrote that. It was sort of a parody or take-off on Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence. It’s been a while since I’ve read that, but the opening sentences of the Declaration of Interdependence are an echo of our Declaration of Independence. And the idea is that every part of the world should be involved in a single economy, with different parts of the world having emphasis on different aspects of a global economy.

And the United States was to be the information center. Our smokestack industries were to be sent to other countries.

Dr. Stan: Did he explain how that would come about?

Dr. Dunegan: Just that the people who make the decisions, the captains of industry and the politicians would get together and decide. We’ll close a steel mill here and reopen it there.

Dr. Stan: What was this about building in obsolescence to American cars so that they’d break down and become disillusioned with our vehicles and buy Japanese?

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. The idea was to promote, specifically, the Japanese auto industry. This was a principle that was applied other ways, but they wanted to build up the hard industries in Japan and, not eliminate ours, but de-emphasize them. So the way to do this was if you bought an American built car and the door handle kept coming off …(Dr. Stan laughs) or some piece under the hood that should have been metal was made of plastic and it would crack, you would become irritated by that. And then your neighbor who had a Japanese car would say “Well I’ve driven this for so many years and so many thousands of miles and all I do is change the oil and tires.

Dr. Stan: Did they actually talk about this?

Dr. Dunegan: Yes, he said this was in the plans.

Dr. Stan: This was the long-range plan 28 years ago to begin orienting Americans toward foreign products by intentionally creating inferior products in America. I know my wife was saying the other day that she hesitates to buy anything made in America because it just falls apart. The threads come out. The buttons pop off. And you know, of course, she attributed this to just accidental shoddy workmanship, but you’re suggesting that maybe there is a plan, at least as far as certain of our products are, to discourage Americans from buying them – to actually buy them overseas, thus transferring Americans’ wealth, industry, and production to other nations as we then lose jobs here in America?

Dr. Dunegan: Right. Right. I remember this particularly, as a matter of fact, I probably was laughing to myself as I do now when I recall it.

Dr. Stan: I think “you could never get away with this.”

Dr. Dunegan: Well I was a child during World War II and I remember that we always laughed at things that were stamped “Made in Japan.”

Dr. Stan: Right. I remember that too.

Dr. Dunegan: We were very proud of American made goods were more reliable and more enduring. And so this was a complete about-face. Now, things that were made in Japan were now going to be the superior product, ours the inferior product.

And part of the idea behind this was the psychological preparation that the…there’s sort of, shall we say, patriotism. You know, things that are made in my home town are the best. Things that are made in my state are the best.

Dr. Stan: Things that are made in America are the best because we’re the best country in the world, and they were trying to destroy that belief?
Dr. Dunegan: Yes, so that you would say ‘well, I might be a patriotic American, but gee, I can’t afford to be buying second rate stuff when I can save money buying a foreign import. So patriotism would take a back seat to economy, you know, to my personal economy. This then would break down the kind of loyalty to your locale or to your nation and foster a more cosmopolitan, citizen of the world attitude.

Dr. Stan: Destroy the love of country.

Dr. Dunegan: Yes.

Dr. Stan: OK. Fine. I think that’s such a fascinating insight into the mentality of these people who seem to have such tremendous power over education, over industry, even over our ways of reproduction today. What other sorts of things did they talk about?

I remember one thing that you mentioned was they were going to encourage sexuality. They were going to try to get people’s minds oriented toward sexuality. Did they talk at all about homosexuality and how that would be used?

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. That would be promoted, not just merely tolerated or permitted, but be promoted, the idea being that no child ever results from a homosexual union.

The business of morality, especially a religious based morality, really would have no part in this future, which is the present now.

Dr. Stan: It almost…you laugh because it’s so ridiculous what has transpired. You either laugh or you cry.

Dr. Dunegan: Well, yes. Between then and now, it’s been quite an experience to watch this unfold right according to the script.

Dr. Stan: Right. The unfolding nightmare is that the moral foundations of our once great Christian society are progressively undermined.

Dr. Dunegan: Consider this. If we’re going to have sex without babies and babies without sex, then for a large part we interchange the sexes. There’s no real difference between men and women.

Dr. Stan: Did he stress that? About how were going to feminize men and masculinize women?

Dr. Dunegan: He more stressed masculinizing the women that he did feminizing men. And this would start in youth. For example, one of the things that he mentioned was that toys that were available for children would be changed. Girls would get footballs and soccer balls, and baby dolls and tea sets, you know, little domestic kits like a dust pan and broom – some of that would disappear entirely and other things like that would be very very greatly de-emphasized.

Dr. Stan: In other words – trying to undermine the maternal or these rather normal instincts that women have for being housekeepers to get them more out into the labor markets and…

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. Yes.

Dr. Stan: And certainly if they’re out in the labor market, they’re not going to be having children.

Dr. Dunegan: That’s right. If mom’s at home and she’s enjoying her first and second baby, she’s likely to say ‘well it’s time for a third or fourth, and I can take care of these kids because my hubby’s making a reasonable living and we can support them.’

Dr. Stan: And of course now you can’t. You have to have the woman working because of the tax system and because of actual -- not in dollar amount but in purchasing amount – decrease in wages of the average American working male.

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. Yes, the term they use is “discretionary spending,” and your discretionary spending – of course you lose all discretion because the tax …and so you’re just trying to survive. And then if mom has one or two children that she worries about while she’s at work, that’s enough worry for her. So she’s not going to say ‘well, I’m going to keep my full-time career and have more children. It just gets too much to be concerned about…worrying about day care, getting somebody to take care of the children…

Dr. Stan: And so what we’re really talking about is an organized plan of social engineering laid out many many decades ago that is coming to fruition, really, in the intervening decades.

Dr. Dunegan: Exactly. One other thing I wanted to develop a little bit and then we can go on and that’s the condoning of sexual activity.
In 1969, abortion was a crime in every one of the states, and at that time he said ‘well, it won’t be long until abortion is not only no longer a crime, it will be seen as a right and will be tax supported, which at that time sounded incredible. By promoting sexual activity among youngsters and linking it strongly to contraception, the planners realized that more pregnancies would occur. The idea then was ‘that’s OK. If more pregnancies occur, we’ll have an abortion back-up, and people who would otherwise oppose abortion will change their line when they say ‘well this is my daughter who is pregnant at a young and tender age and abortion restrictions might be OK for everybody else …’

Dr. Stan: So he was saying how they were going to change our attitude toward abortion, how in 1969 abortion was illegal in every state, so what did they plan? How were they going to change that?

Dr. Dunegan: Well, the idea is to promote early sexual activity among the kids, connecting it strongly with the use of contraceptives. They would be taught that the two should just naturally go together with the realization that with more sexual activity, there would be more pregnancies, more contraceptive failures, one might say. But no need to worry about cluttering up the planet with unwanted babies because then abortion would be available as a back-up. And with young girls getting pregnant too early in their life, people who would otherwise maybe object to abortion, you know, when it was in somebody else’s life, would say ‘yes, but I no longer object because this is my daughter and I don’t want her to have to carry this pregnancy to term because she’s not yet mature enough to be a mother and take care of a baby. So it is sort of a win – win situation for them. It would break down resistance to abortion as well as reinforcing continually the need for contraception – or sex without babies.

Dr. Stan: You know, as you talk about this, it sounds so diabolical, almost like the plan had come right out of hell.

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. I think so. (laughs)

Dr. Stan: And so looking back on this, as you’ve seen this over the last 28 years, it must have been terribly terribly frustrating for you, seeing these things and knowing what was going on and yet realizing that the vast majority of the American people had no idea at all what was transpiring.

Dr. Dunegan: It was frustrating, and even talking with some of my colleagues who heard the same presentation, and not very long after afterwards, they had all seemed to forget it. They’d say, oh yeah, ‘I remember he was here. I remember he talked about some stuff’, but as far as details and saying ‘well, don’t you remember when he said this, that and the other?’ They’d say ‘No. Did he say that? Well, I don’t know.’

Like when I say that, what comes to mind is one of my colleagues … Dr. Day had spoken about the “demise pill.” The demise bill … there was consideration to be given to an arbitrary age after which, you know, everybody should pass on. The age could be set by law – 75, 80, 85, whatever seemed to be appropriate at the time, and then when you reached that age, you would be a candidate to take the demise pill. And he said this ‘Attitudes about death needed to be changed and made more “realistic”. So, you know, we’re all headed for death one way or another so why not do this in a very cerebral and scientific kind of way?’

So the idea was that when you had reached the legal age, you could have this nice banquet, sort of a farewell banquet with your family and friends, and afterwards go off and take your demise pill and sleep away peacefully. Laughter.

One of my colleagues who has … we were outside a meeting in the hospital and there was some talk about … he was having some pain, he was coming into the hospital to get some tests and maybe have some surgery… laughter… I said well, ‘Hey Fred, when you try to sleep – you know the night before the operation – maybe you’re a little restless and you can’t sleep and the nurse comes and says ‘Here’s your sleeping pill. Are you going to take it? If you take it, maybe they won’t have to do the operation. He just laughed and he said ‘did he say that?’, and I said ‘Yeah, you better remember he said it.’

Dr. Stan: So they were even back in 1969, they were talking about a more or less coerced or forced euthanasia.

Dr. Dunegan: Yes.

Dr. Stan: Did they talk at all about other countries, how they were going to control population in other countries or the possibility of fomenting disease to control population?

Dr. Dunegan: Yes. There were a couple of things there. One, there was a part of the presentation where he said ‘New diseases will appear. They will be very difficult to diagnose. A doctor seeing these for the first time, of course, will not know what’s going on.’ And the reason I remembered this so strongly was, I was fairly new in practice and after hearing him talk about new diseases that would appear, I’d have a youngster in the office and be examining him and, you know, I’d say ‘Gee, he’s got this fever and these symptoms and it just doesn’t add up. I wasn’t, you know, absolutely certain what was going on. Well, right away my memory would ring a bell and say ‘Could these be one of those new diseases he was talking about?’ Well, as it turned out, that was not the case in my practice or with any of my kids.

But in retrospect, I think he was talking about AIDS. There were some other things that were said that would sort of lead me to that conclusion.
Dr. Stan: What other things were there because, of course, my major interest has been the AIDS epidemic. I’ve been battling this for over a decade, so what other things were there -- if you can recall and I know this a long time ago, but I just thank the Lord that you took those notes and the napkins and then re-recorded them. What other things did he say that makes you think that perhaps the AIDS epidemic has something to do with a plan?

Dr. Dunegan: The continent of Africa is a very rich continent.

Dr. Stan: Now that’s what he said?

Dr. Dunegan: Well, I’m sort of paraphrasing it.

Dr. Stan: Right, right.

Dr. Dunegan: And I don’t recall that this was in immediate juxtaposition to AIDS, but it was pretty close.

Dr. Stan: OK, so of course, the AIDS epidemic is simply decimating, depopulating Africa. The American people don’t know that, but it’s really happening today. And so was he talking about possible disease Africa or just the fact that it was such a rich rich continent?

Dr. Dunegan: Well, here we have a world that’s soon to be overpopulated, soon to run out of natural resources, and here’s this great big continent of Africa full of resources. Now this continent should not be left to people who have never been able to develop it. This continent should be under the control of people who know how to develop and manage all these resources. And in effect what that means is you have to get rid of the people that are there now, not totally perhaps, but in large part, to make way for the managers to move in.


End of Part 2 of 5