father in hospital, I think they are going to kill him

[Tumbleweed]

I'm biting my tongue.

Why are you biting your tongue doc? I have sleep apnea and I use a cpap machine to try and avoid congestive heart failure. So far so good. Last summer when they checked my heart the ejection fraction on my left ventricle was 71%.

After I had the bypasses done on my heart they gave me oxygen for awhile and then switched to a cpap machine at my request but I couldn't stand that damn thing and went back to the oxygen. Later on I started using one but it took awhile to get used to it.

I'm the only one I can practice medicine on with out a license so I do what I want and not always what I'm told to do. I'm not afraid of dying, I'm more afraid of living to long.

A cpap might help Amanda's dad and I'd give it a try if I was in her dads position. He should probably already be using one since he has heart problems. Seems like it would be something they could try pretty quick and easy while he's there in the hospital.

[ziero0]

Don't forget the benefits of bipap as opposed to cpap.

[Amanda]

okay...

prior to hospital - NO signs of weakness, he was making his breakfast and lunch, walking around the house, helping with dishes, despite having a broken shoulder; no breathing problems, just upset about swollen infected legs.


Thurs-

We kept trying to get oxygen to get him out of there, since that was his wish yesterday. He wanted to leave.
We believe he is weaker and condition has deteriorated because of being in the hospital and letting him get dehydrated, giving him crappy cold food (so not eating as much), nobody get him up for 3 days to walk around, etc. (also for food, he needs position in bed adjusted so he can reach the tray, but nobody does this for him, they come in an hour later and food is then cold and he doesn't feel like eating it).


So, mom visited him yesterday, since now out of isolation for fake covid BS; gave him more water and brought him bananas.

Last night, I visited and brought him some nutrients for his heart: 400 mg magnesium, D-Ribose, 2 Hawthorn berry, 400 mg CoQ10, Vit K2. I got him to drink more water. Talked with him about how his health has deteriorated from being in the hospital (never needed oxygen before, wasn't weak before, etc.) and that they were now using it against him as a reason for why he could NOT leave the hospital. We talked about the strategy of my mother continuing to try to get prescription for oxygen from primary care doctor and get a wheelchair since they would not give him one if he left against medical orders. Also talked about how we have to work on building up his strength and health by giving him nutrients to get him back to where he was before he arrived at the hospital. He seemed on board with all of this. Told him we would be back 2 times on Fri to keep giving him the supplements. Also told him they said he had afib on Wed night (never had before, could this be due to him getting so dehydrated that electrolytes were off?), but we checked with Dr. Sherry Rogers' book "Is Your Cardiologist Killing You?" and she said you can cure Afib with magnesium (I think she said 600 mg 2x/day)--I told him all about Dr. Rogers and what she said.

also when I arrived, food sitting there since 6:10 but father not able to eat it because nobody came to adjust his position in the bed so he could reach the tray. I arrived at 7pm, then the bitchy white nurses came in and adjusted his bed. My father said, they only came in because they saw you were here and wanted to make it look good. Finally, at end of visit, we got a nice black tech, very friendly, so I told him everything that was going on. How they didn't give him any water for 2 days and he got dehydrated, was feeling spatially disoriented on Wed night b/c of dehydration, which went away with a drink of water. Asked him to please make sure nobody takes water away and keep it within his reach on the tray. also told him How father was here for 3 days , nobody walked him around, so he's getting weaker, and they are saying now he's too weak to leave (using weakness against him). Said at home, he was not bed ridden and was up and about despite broken shoulder. Marquis (the guy) totally got it, said he would get him up and help him walk and take him to toilet (nobody even took him to the freaking toilet for 3 days!!). later, got call from nurse Lisa Kruger, who worked with Marquis to get him up, standing and on toilet. She said he was unsteady and that they got him in a chair so he could sit for an hour. So finally thought we were making progress (nurse also said she would put in order for physical therapy). Also noticed when I was there, "heparin" on the screen, and I was to self - WTF is that about? (prior to hospital, he was only on thyroid meds and gabapentin at first for neuropathy, which went away, so then only for sleep) So when I left, I thought we were on the right track. (again, as of yesterday, he wanted to get out of there, and was telling us to get prescription for oxygen).

Friday morning-

Mom just talked with him, now all of the sudden he is telling us they have time to "squeeze him in" for a procedure (I guess having to do with the valve), which makes no sense to have this now when his condition has deteriorated for 3 days of being there (he would have a better chance of surviving if it was done when he was in the condition he was in prior to the hospitalization).

Now, my father is seemingly resigned to fate (yet, yesterday, Wed, Tues, he wanted OUT--yesterday, Thurs morning he told me he told them "no more f'ing tests, I want to go home, I'm done with this crap, I'm not having any tests so get me my breakfast." He just told my mother (fri am) he realizes he's weaker now than few years ago (he did not feel that way prior to hospital), he's going to take his chances with the procedure (aware he might not make it,willing to take chances), so he can spend his last years helping his family (IMO- sounds like they were manipulating him, working this angle, "hey if you have this procedure, you will be healthier and can help your wife, etc." -- meanwhile, all last year, he was healthy enough to manage the renovation of an inherited house in CT, and have a friend drive him up there almost every weekend, so he could work on it--at 83 he was actually doing work on a house). Our worry is that they are going to kill him, especially since he's in dramatically worse shape than he was in prior to going to the hospital.

My mother is extremely upset that he has made this decision on his own without talking with her. agreement prior to hospital was that they would NEVER make any major decision without first consulting each other. My mother was upset that nobody (doctor) called to inform her of any of this. This feels like they browbeat an old man into doing what they want.

Also now worried about my mother--stress of this is killing her (82 y. o) her BP was through the roof last night.

Also, we went through all of this in 2019--they wanted to do procedure for valve. Had him at hospital in PHilly. After 4 days of being there (tons of tests to make $$$$ and rack up the bill) my father got sick of it and wanted to come home. He was going to do Linus pauling protocol, diet, high dose K2 based on info I got online and here. Then for first few weeks when home, he was into it. But later started not doing protocol, lost motivation because he felt fine. My mother had to constantly nag and it caused fights. I also nagged and got into fights.

So that's that. I was feeling hopeful last night that we could get him out of this, if we continued to get nutrients into him and get him back to pre-hospitalization status and then if we could get him home and get him to finally follow nutrient and diet protocols. Now not feeling so hopeful and thinking they are going to kill him today while making some $$$$ for themselves.


Also, there are no words for the horrible "care" he's gotten-- you could probably get better care in a 3rd world country.

[osoab]

Wow. I am so sorry/disappointed in the experience for your whole family.

I hope your father gets out of their asap.

Does your father have great insurance? Just wondering if they want to milk "the cow" dry.

[Amanda]

Wow. I am so sorry/disappointed in the experience for your whole family.

I hope your father gets out of their asap.

Does your father have great insurance? Just wondering if they want to milk "the cow" dry.

Yes- milking the cow dry for sure. I think they even did (or tried to do) an x-ray of my father's foot and my father said "What the hell are you doing? I didn't break my foot, I have swollen legs from an infection" (also I think the infection was cellulitis, which I think he had before-- last time he had it, I told him he needed to take extra "killers" like monolaurin or something , since he's vulnerable to getting it again--of course he didn't listen).

Also, what really made things do downhill fast was the covid BS and putting him in isolation as a "suspected covid case" despite negative test, which meant that we could NOT visit him and monitor him, get good nutrients/food to him and be there when doctors/nurses tried to bully him. This applies to Tues, when he wanted to come home and told the nurse (I was ear witness on phone to this). But when was off the phone, nurse and doctor "browbeat" him into staying, which would NOT have happened, if my mother was able to be there with him.


Also, on a sort of shallow note, it would be extra horrible if he did not make it today (if they still go through with the procedure) because the closing for the house in CT is on Mon and he's spent many many years working on it and it would just be extra sad if he couldn't even get his money for all of his hard work before he died.

Just talked with the wheelchair rental place (I still have to work at all of this, in case we have a chance of getting him out of there) and she was SHOCKED when I told her about the situation that 83 y.o. father is at hospital and how if he leaves against medical wishes they will not give him a wheelchair to wheel him out to the car (she totally gasped in shock that they would do that--and I told her that b/c of covid procedures, everyone has to go through one entrance even though your room is far away on other side of building, which it it--I was there last night and it's a serious haul of a walk to get from entrance to his room.

[mamboni]

okay...

prior to hospital - NO signs of weakness, he was making his breakfast and lunch, walking around the house, helping with dishes, despite having a broken shoulder; no breathing problems, just upset about swollen infected legs.


Thurs-

We kept trying to get oxygen to get him out of there, since that was his wish yesterday. He wanted to leave.
We believe he is weaker and condition has deteriorated because of being in the hospital and letting him get dehydrated, giving him crappy cold food (so not eating as much), nobody get him up for 3 days to walk around, etc. (also for food, he needs position in bed adjusted so he can reach the tray, but nobody does this for him, they come in an hour later and food is then cold and he doesn't feel like eating it).


So, mom visited him yesterday, since now out of isolation for fake covid BS; gave him more water and brought him bananas.

Last night, I visited and brought him some nutrients for his heart: 400 mg magnesium, D-Ribose, 2 Hawthorn berry, 400 mg CoQ10, Vit K2. I got him to drink more water. Talked with him about how his health has deteriorated from being in the hospital (never needed oxygen before, wasn't weak before, etc.) and that they were now using it against him as a reason for why he could NOT leave the hospital. We talked about the strategy of my mother continuing to try to get prescription for oxygen from primary care doctor and get a wheelchair since they would not give him one if he left against medical orders. Also talked about how we have to work on building up his strength and health by giving him nutrients to get him back to where he was before he arrived at the hospital. He seemed on board with all of this. Told him we would be back 2 times on Fri to keep giving him the supplements. Also told him they said he had afib on Wed night (never had before, could this be due to him getting so dehydrated that electrolytes were off?), but we checked with Dr. Sherry Rogers' book "Is Your Cardiologist Killing You?" and she said you can cure Afib with magnesium (I think she said 600 mg 2x/day)--I told him all about Dr. Rogers and what she said.

also when I arrived, food sitting there since 6:10 but father not able to eat it because nobody came to adjust his position in the bed so he could reach the tray. I arrived at 7pm, then the bitchy white nurses came in and adjusted his bed. My father said, they only came in because they saw you were here and wanted to make it look good. Finally, at end of visit, we got a nice black tech, very friendly, so I told him everything that was going on. How they didn't give him any water for 2 days and he got dehydrated, was feeling spatially disoriented on Wed night b/c of dehydration, which went away with a drink of water. Asked him to please make sure nobody takes water away and keep it within his reach on the tray. also told him How father was here for 3 days , nobody walked him around, so he's getting weaker, and they are saying now he's too weak to leave (using weakness against him). Said at home, he was not bed ridden and was up and about despite broken shoulder. Marquis (the guy) totally got it, said he would get him up and help him walk and take him to toilet (nobody even took him to the freaking toilet for 3 days!!). later, got call from nurse Lisa Kruger, who worked with Marquis to get him up, standing and on toilet. She said he was unsteady and that they got him in a chair so he could sit for an hour. So finally thought we were making progress (nurse also said she would put in order for physical therapy). Also noticed when I was there, "heparin" on the screen, and I was to self - WTF is that about? (prior to hospital, he was only on thyroid meds and gabapentin at first for neuropathy, which went away, so then only for sleep) So when I left, I thought we were on the right track. (again, as of yesterday, he wanted to get out of there, and was telling us to get prescription for oxygen).

Friday morning-

Mom just talked with him, now all of the sudden he is telling us they have time to "squeeze him in" for a procedure (I guess having to do with the valve), which makes no sense to have this now when his condition has deteriorated for 3 days of being there (he would have a better chance of surviving if it was done when he was in the condition he was in prior to the hospitalization).

Now, my father is seemingly resigned to fate (yet, yesterday, Wed, Tues, he wanted OUT--yesterday, Thurs morning he told me he told them "no more f'ing tests, I want to go home, I'm done with this crap, I'm not having any tests so get me my breakfast." He just told my mother (fri am) he realizes he's weaker now than few years ago (he did not feel that way prior to hospital), he's going to take his chances with the procedure (aware he might not make it,willing to take chances), so he can spend his last years helping his family (IMO- sounds like they were manipulating him, working this angle, "hey if you have this procedure, you will be healthier and can help your wife, etc." -- meanwhile, all last year, he was healthy enough to manage the renovation of an inherited house in CT, and have a friend drive him up there almost every weekend, so he could work on it--at 83 he was actually doing work on a house). Our worry is that they are going to kill him, especially since he's in dramatically worse shape than he was in prior to going to the hospital.

My mother is extremely upset that he has made this decision on his own without talking with her. agreement prior to hospital was that they would NEVER make any major decision without first consulting each other. My mother was upset that nobody (doctor) called to inform her of any of this. This feels like they browbeat an old man into doing what they want.

Also now worried about my mother--stress of this is killing her (82 y. o) her BP was through the roof last night.

Also, we went through all of this in 2019--they wanted to do procedure for valve. Had him at hospital in PHilly. After 4 days of being there (tons of tests to make $$$$ and rack up the bill) my father got sick of it and wanted to come home. He was going to do Linus pauling protocol, diet, high dose K2 based on info I got online and here. Then for first few weeks when home, he was into it. But later started not doing protocol, lost motivation because he felt fine. My mother had to constantly nag and it caused fights. I also nagged and got into fights.

So that's that. I was feeling hopeful last night that we could get him out of this, if we continued to get nutrients into him and get him back to pre-hospitalization status and then if we could get him home and get him to finally follow nutrient and diet protocols. Now not feeling so hopeful and thinking they are going to kill him today while making some $$$$ for themselves.


Also, there are no words for the horrible "care" he's gotten-- you could probably get better care in a 3rd world country.

I’m getting flashbacks reading your tale of woe. His poor treatment and exploitation are typical. Your supplements will help but are incomplete. He needs comprehensive nutrition. He will deteriorate as long as he is in the hospital environment.

Just me thinking out loud: if that was my dad I would check him out of the hospital AMA. I can do more for him at home:
Youngevity Brain and Heart pack
lots of fresh eggs and vegetable smoothies supplemented with minerals
lots of conversation and mental stimulation
He’d be a new man in a few weeks
83 is young
It would be lots of work at first but you will save his life
BTW heparin is the Afib. Vitamin E plus garlic will thin the blood and are much safer (and cheaper) than heparin.

[Amanda]

I’m getting flashbacks reading your tale of woe. His poor treatment and exploitation are typical. Your supplements will help but are incomplete. He needs comprehensive nutrition. He will deteriorate as long as he is in the hospital environment.

Just me thinking out loud: if that was my dad I would check him out of the hospital AMA. I can do more for him at home:
Youngevity Brain and Heart pack
lots of fresh eggs and vegetable smoothies supplemented with minerals
lots of conversation and mental stimulation
He’d be a new man in a few weeks
83 is young
It would be lots of work at first but you will save his life
BTW heparin is the Afib. Vitamin E plus garlic will thin the blood and are much safer (and cheaper) than heparin.

Thanks so much for all of this. Will give this info to my mother. My mother has E (Carlson tocomin Suprabio and Carlson Gamma E Gems) so maybe we can get to him in meantime--oh crap, my mother says sometimes one of those Es (maybe E gamma Gems) she does not take b/c gives her nosebleed. So maybe we should not give him E while on heparin rat poison.

Just got call from father, says cardiologist will try to set up meeting with my mother (and maybe my father). Perhaps we can delay what they are pushing for to give time to get him home and build him back up.


Mother called hospital earlier and nurse said he was not scheduled to go anywhere.

Just now, mother talked with father, he said no breakfast or lunch. Mother called nurse about food situation, and now nurse says he's scheduled for procedure at other hospital and there's no talk of meeting with cardiologist, that my father just mentioned. Mother said she has NOT agreed to this, believes my father is being bullied and does not understand what is going on, since he is expecting his food. Mother said please do not take him yet. Nurse hung up on her.

We are still working on this and fighting. Planning to go to hospital, give more supplements, healthy food. Will give my father your info too.

[Cebu_4_2]

What a nightmare.

[Amanda]

What a nightmare.

Yup. We'd totally bust him out of there except for the oxygen problem.

We were ready to go get him on Tues (no word of oxygen problem at that point), but then he got bullied into staying.

[midnight rambler]

Yup. We'd totally bust him out of there except for the oxygen problem.

We were ready to go get him on Tues (no word of oxygen problem at that point), but then he got bullied into staying.

The love of money is the root of all evil.