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Thread: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

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    Unobtanium gunDriller's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    good to see you guys !

    i think of the event as having about 5 primary facets.

    one was the use of war-games to move military assets far enough away that they wouldn't be able to interfere with Israel's plans.

    the war games were managed out of Cheney's office. i think Ruppert does the best job of researching this - despite his subsequent proclamation that we ignore huge pieces of evidence ... like the demolition.

    http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Rubic.../dp/0865715408


    2 the subject of foreknowledge.

    that i know of, Paul Thompson at Coop. Research did the best job of investigating this. i downloaded his old site before it was taken over by History Commons. now if i could just find the download !? it's next to the silver in the lake. 8)

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...e_key_warnings


    3. the Silverstein Mafia - management of the World Trade Center site. demolition teams need access to buildings. it helps if the insurance company doesn't ask awkward questions. etc.

    very well explained in the thread at TIU

    http://theinfounderground.com/forum/...efae690#p39041


    4. the Silverstein Mafia - make damn sure the planes hit the buildings. management of this task is a big job itself. talk about mission critical. it would be no good if the nervous Muslim airplane hijackers drove the plane into the Empire State Building.

    incidentally, at the time of 9-11 i worked for a defense contractor that had the primary contract for the F-22 avionics (airborne electronics), as a design engineer. i brought up the subject of "fly-by-wire" (remote control) in the lunchroom several times.

    the answer from the electricals (i'm electro-mechanical) was that "oh yeah all the planes have that, they've had it for 20 years".

    anyway, someone had to manage that. i guess it was basically Israel.


    5. Israel did the building demolitions.

    http://research.wtc7.net/

    i think Jim Hoffman at that WTC7.net website does a good job of explaining the demolition from a physicist's point of view.

    i've met him; he is scary smart. he used civil engineering textbooks to look up the amount of energy needed to turn 300,000 tons (or whatever, he actually looked it up) of concrete into dust.

    it takes a LOT of energy to turn concrete into powder.


    another perspective is to look at the amount of energy it takes to raise the temperature of steel to half its melting temperature, as was claimed in one of the official US government proclamations.

    it's up to me to prove it, but from a lifetime of metalworking & engineering experience, i know the little "poof" of the 10,000 tons of jet fuel was nothing compared to 100's of thousands of tons of steel. like holding a lighter up to a cast iron frying pan - it doesn't get very hot.

    the solution involves looking at the thermal capacity of steel - and the energy content of jet fuel.

    also there would be some conduction of heat along the steel structure, down to the ground, which typically runs 55 degrees F, once you get a few feet underground.

    what i would like to do with that is do the calc's, and then explain it, so that other people can step through the calculations themselves & don't have to take my word for it.


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    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    Excellent posting GunDriller. I have begun a project to download important websites relevant to 9/11 and Israel before they are disappeared like GIM1 was.

    I would encourage anyone here to post any high quality and provocative links vis-a-vis 9/11, Israel and Mossad. In the future I will be posting a running tally of my elibrary.
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    Dangerous Donald Neuro's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    I am on my Iphone right now so I can't cut and paste. But I remember the thread on GIM, about the connections between Silverstein, Netanyahu, Barak and Maddoff, I think the original article was written by Bollyn...

    Anyway as far as I am concerned, most evidence uncovered seems to point to an Israeli led operation, aided by a few high officials in the Bush administration. MSM has effectively taken any attention away from any Israeli involvement.

    Happy to see you here Mamboni!
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    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    I'm glad to be here Neuro.

    There's quite a excellent group of folk here. The future of this forum looks bright.
    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin
    Sincerity makes the very least person to be of more value than the most talented hypocrite. -Charles Spurgeon

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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    DR ALAN SABROSKY, FORMER DIRECTOR OF STUDIES AT THE US ARMY WAR COLLEGE “ISRAEL DID IT”

    March 19, 2010 by Gordon Duff ·

    GORDON DUFF: SABROSKY INTERVIEW TIES ISRAEL TO 9/11
    By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

    Meet Dr. Alan Sabrosky, a brave man, a USMC Vietnam vet, an American of Jewish ancestry and someone devoted to the security of the United States at any cost. Ask any Jew what it takes to stand up against the most powerful and ruthless group in the world, the Israeli lobby inside the United States.

    Sabrosky has been calling for a new 9/11 investigation for some time. What makes him unique is that we have a Jew who can hardly be called “self-hating” or “anti-Semitic” or against Israel. He is consistent in everything he says. His point is that you are an American or you are an Israeli but you can’t be both, especially now with Zionism turning Israeli foreign policy into a “runaway train.” 9/11, as Sabrosky sees it was the watershed in a relationship between America and Israel that has gone from bad to unsurviveable, especially for America. He contents that AIPAC exercises near total control over the electoral process in America through the ability to outspend any other group and destroy anyone who stands against them.

    The unwillingness of the US to stand with the international community on humanitarian and war crime issues where Israel is found in continual violation is, to Sabrosky, a critial issue. In discussion the US and her lack of support for the Goldstone Report, Sabrosky says:

    US criticism of the HRC resolution should be disregarded, as Washington only parrots Israel’s wishes here…
    … it might have been better to have included Goldstone’s condemnation of Hamas offenses as well, but it is legitimate as it stands for five reasons: (1) Israel committed the great majority of the violations; (2) Israel had an overwhelming preponderance of military power; (3) Palestinians suffered almost all of the death and destruction; (4) Israel has a long, sordid history of ignoring UN commissions and resolutions, and of attacking UN facilities and killing UN staff, as when the clearly marked UNRWA facility in Gaza was bombed; and (5) the HRC focus is properly on the actions of the oppressor (Israel) and not on those of the oppressed (the Palestinians).

    Another is that it did not accord Israel the right of self-defense. But Israel’s claim to self-defense in its savaging of Gaza is specious, because Israel — like all occupiers and oppressors — has no inherent right of self-defense against its victims. Who, for instance, would have accepted Nazi Germany’s assertion that its brutal reprisals against the Czechs for their assassination of a Nazi commander named Reinhard Heydrich was an exercise in self-defense? No one, and no one should accept Israel’s claim, either.

    A third is that holding Israel accountable for its actions will somehow endanger the Middle East peace process. But there is no peace process, simply meaningless discussions to the dead end (for Palestinians and the rest of the region) of Israeli hegemony, and under Netanyahu or any electable government in Israel, there is not and cannot be one. There will be an enforced peace imposed from outside of the Middle East, over the objections and obstruction of Israel, or there will be none at all.

    ZIONISM AND ISRAELI NATIONALISM
    This is how Sabrosky describes the nature of Jewish nationalism as described within the term we call “Zionism”:
    The differences between Jewish nationalism (Zionism) and that of other countries and cultures here I think are fourfold:
    1. Zionism is a real witches’ brew of xenophobia, racism, ultra-nationalism and militarism that places it way outside of a “mere” nationalist context — for example, when I was in Ireland (both parts) I saw no indication whatsoever that the Provisional Irish Republican Army or anyone else pressing for a united Ireland had a shred of design on shoving Protestants into camps or out of the country, although there may well have been a handful who thought that way — and goes far beyond the misery for others professed by the Nazis;
    2. Zionism undermines civic loyalty among its adherents in other countries in a way that other nationalist movements (and even ultra-nationalist movements like Nazism) did not — e.g. a large majority of American Jews, including those who are not openly dual citizens, espouse a form of political bigamy called “dual loyalty” (to Israel and the US) that is every bit as dishonest as marital bigamy, attempts to finesse the precedence they give to Israel over the US (lots of Rahm Emanuels out there who served in the Israeli army but NOT in the US armed forces), and has absolutely no parallel in the sense of national or cultural identity espoused by any other definable ethnic or racial group in America — even the Nazi Bund in the US disappeared once Germany and the US went to war, with almost all of its members volunteering for the US armed forces;
    3. The “enemy” of normal nationalist movements is the occupying power and perhaps its allies, and once independence is achieved, normal relations with the occupying power are truly the norm, but for Zionism almost everyone out there is an actual or potential enemy, differing only in proximity and placement on its very long list of enemies (which is now America’s target list); and
    4. Almost all nationalist movements (including the irredentist and secessionist variants) intend to create an independent state from a population in place or to reunite a separated people (like the Sudeten Germans in the 1930s) — it is very rare for it to include the wholesale displacement of another indigenous population, which is far more common of successful colonialist movements as in the US — and perhaps a reason why most Americans wouldn’t care too much about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians even if they DID know about it, is because that is no different than what Europeans in North America did to the Indians/Native Americans here in a longer and more low-tech fashion.
    Sabrosky is one of the few Americans who sees the nuclear threat of Israel as it is, blackmailing the United States, not only in how it could be used to draw America into an unwanted war, but how it could actually be used at some point to attack the United States itself. Only recently, Israel put Western Europe on notice that it would be attacked if its actions threatened Israel, attacked by nuclear weaons from Israel without warning. Martin van Creveld’s threat combined with Sabrosky’s analysis of Israeli intentions and culpability for 9/11 brings to mind something Sabrosky had once written.
    He has always seen Moshe Dyan as a hero. Dyan saw Israel’s military role as that of a “junk yard dog,” ready to bite without warning, attack anything and anyone. Sabrosky notes that, eventually such an animal is always put down or as he puts it, ”the preferred response of everyone else is to kill that mad dog before it can decide to go berserk and bite.”

    9/11
    Sabrosky makes a case, not just for a coverup of 9/11 but goes much further. He points out as do so many that the physics of the attack are unworkable. He, however, is one of the few to point to a conclusion many find obvious but few have the nerve to admit, that it would have been impossible to stage 9/11 without the full resources of both the CIA and Mossad and that 9/11 served the interests of both agencies quite well.
    There was nothing they could have wished for more.
    Sabrosky also makes a point involving media coverage of 9/11:
    Finally, we need to take a hard look at why the mainstream media (MSM) have paid more attention to Sarah Palin’s wardrobe than they have to dissecting blatant falsehoods, discrepancies and inconsistencies in the US Government’s treatment of 9/11 and its aftermath.

    ZIONISM AND TREASON
    The inescapable point isnt the 60,000 Americans killed or wounded in a war started out of treason or the world it threatens to destroy. Americans have been looking away from these glaring realities the way they looked away from Vietnam. Sabrosky leaves Israel and her American Jewish supporters who he sees as traitors with a warning:
    If these Americans and those like them ever fully understand just how much of their suffering — and the suffering we have inflicted on others — is properly laid on the doorsteps of Israel and its advocates in America, they will sweep aside those in politics, the press and the pulpits alike whose lies and disloyalty brought this about and concealed it from them. They may well leave Israel looking like Carthage after the Romans finished with it. It will be Israel’s own great fault.
    Do we take Sabrosky seriously because he is a Marine or a Jew? Do we wonder why the things he says reach so few? Is American in a shooting war where our biggest enemy sits behind us, killing us off, robbing us blind and whispering gently in our ears how much they love us?
    It would seem so.


    http://theuglytruth.podbean.com/2010...march-15-2010/
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    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

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    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin
    Sincerity makes the very least person to be of more value than the most talented hypocrite. -Charles Spurgeon

  7. #17
    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=238

    9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

    SCIENTISTS, ARCHITECTS, & ENGINEERS now affirm that the 9-11 destruction of the World Trade Center buildings was an inside job. The leading scientist of Scholars For 9-11 Truth, Dr Steven Jones, has proven that controlled demolition devices were placed within the WTC Twin Towers - and this is what brought the buildings down not the airplanes.

    Jones says that molten metal was found in the sub basements of the buildings. The molten metal, Jones argues, was caused by a high-temperature Thermite reaction, used to demolish steel. Thermal hot spots throughout the sub basement levels were detected by satellite - confirming Jones’ findings.

    Jones also says that heated dust with particles of Thermite was discovered in the WTC area. But Silverstein arranged that three NY Jewish steel and scrap companies ship the metal which could have been used as evidence to China & India.

    Paul W. Mason, structural engineer of Melbourne Australia, affirms Dr Jones’ findings:

    — “The chances of the buildings collapsing symmetrically into their own footprint at freefall speed by any other means than by controlled demolition are so remote that there is no other plausible explanation”


    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin
    Sincerity makes the very least person to be of more value than the most talented hypocrite. -Charles Spurgeon

  8. #18
    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    WTC 7
    Gallery of Evidence

    (see photo #1 below)

    Shortly after the core columns under the East Penthouse of WTC 7 collapsed, the rest of the building collapsed mostly into its footprint in about 7 seconds — near free-fall speed.

    (see photo #2 below)



    Taken from the FEMA report, Fig. 5-26, this photographic evidence begs to question why WTC 7 imploded when WTC 6 and WTC 5 were closer to the Twin Towers and more heavily damaged by falling debris, yet, their structures remain.

    (see photo #3 below)


    The official FEMA report states: "The collapse of WTC 7 had a small debris field as the facade was pulled downward, suggesting an internal failure and implosion...

    Demolishing the building so that it collapses straight down into its own footprint requires such skill that only a handful of demolition companies in the world will attempt it."




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California, says: "Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition"

    Ronald H. Brookman, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Davis, of Novato California, writes: "Why would all 110 stories drop straight down to the ground in about 10 seconds, pulverizing the contents into dust and ash - twice. Why would all 47 stories of WTC 7 fall straight down to the ground in about seven seconds the same day? It was not struck by any aircraft or engulfed in any fire. An independent investigation is justified for all three collapses including the surviving steel samples and the composition of the dust."

    Graham John Inman, structural engineer, of London, England, points out: "WTC 7 Building could not have collapsed as a result of internal fire and external debris. NO plane hit this building. This is the only case of a steel frame building collapsing through fire in the world. The fire on this building was small & localized therefore what is the cause?"

    Paul W. Mason, structural engineer, of Melbourne, Australia, argues: "In my view, the chances of the three buildings collapsing symmetrically into their own footprint, at freefall speed, by any other means than by controlled demolition, are so remote that there is no other plausible explanation!"

    "In my opinion WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by controlled demolition done by experts" -Hugo Bachmann, Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH and former Chairman of the Department of Structural Dynamics and Earthquake Engineering, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. (source)

    http://www.ae911truth.org/wtc7.php

    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin
    Sincerity makes the very least person to be of more value than the most talented hypocrite. -Charles Spurgeon

  9. #19
    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    Photo #3 from the post prior:

    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin
    Sincerity makes the very least person to be of more value than the most talented hypocrite. -Charles Spurgeon

  10. #20
    Unobtanium PatColo's Avatar
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    Re: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread

    http://rediscover911.com

    I was just browsing this site, and was pretty impressed with all the articles I read (there's a "cloud" of article titles at the top of every page). I could pick a nit here and there, wouldn't vouch for every "truther" name they drop, but on balance... great collection of info which properly focuses on the perps. I like the preamble at their "cui bono?" intro page,

    The real conspirators of 9/11 took a calculated risk that their crimes would not be uncovered quickly enough to thwart a 'checkmate' worldwide-- on governments, banking, commerce... everything.

    more: http://rediscover911.com/rediscover9...nefits%29.html
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