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Thread: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

  1. #11
    Iridium Spectrism's Avatar
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by greenbear
    What business do Christians have joining in a day of prayer with non-Christians? (No offense intended, Ken )

    2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and

    what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what

    agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and

    I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the

    unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    This is true in the sense that we would not be equally joined in supplication of our Father, wherease they are not part of the family.

    An exception to this is the prayer of the lost calling out for the first time to the One who grants salvation. Salvation is completely a gift, but requires the agreement of the one being saved. Souls will not be coerced or deceived into a relationship with Messiah. In that sense, a joint prayer is acceptable.

    In a nation which is mostly believing christians, a national day of prayer is the least of good efforts.
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Luis337
    The Constitution is fine and the founders didnt make mistakes drafting it up. Its the advent of socialism thats the cancer.
    Marxism or socialism and even communism wasnt around when America was founded.
    You're right that communism wasn't around when America was founded. However, I'll argue that America was re-founded after the civil war due to the implementation of the Reconstruction amendments as well as the 14th Amendment. One of the reasons for L.B. Bork naming his book "The Red Amendment" is that it was a vehicle to implement communism in America. The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848...plently of time for it to reach America and for its ideas to reach the U.S.
    I couldnt agree more Luis. Not many even care or even heard about the revised statutes of 1871 that essentially did away with the Common Law form that the Constitution is based on and replaced it with same Roman civil law the 14th amendment was already implimenting.

  3. #13
    greenbear
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Considering that more like 89% of Americans aren't true Christians then we'd be joining in prayer with people who are praying to demons. At least the World Invocation Day is straightforward, praying against Christians.

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    Iridium Spectrism's Avatar
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by greenbear
    Considering that more like 89% of Americans aren't true Christians then we'd be joining in prayer with people who are praying to demons. At least the World Invocation Day is straightforward, praying against Christians.
    I don't know where you get your number (89%) from, but that seems to match my experience in traveling. Even that is being a little generous. When I visit different church groups and really get to know the people, the sense is more like 10% of the 10% are real.
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  5. #15
    greenbear
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrism
    Quote Originally Posted by greenbear
    Considering that more like 89% of Americans aren't true Christians then we'd be joining in prayer with people who are praying to demons. At least the World Invocation Day is straightforward, praying against Christians.
    I don't know where you get your number (89%) from, but that seems to match my experience in traveling. Even that is being a little generous. When I visit different church groups and really get to know the people, the sense is more like 10% of the 10% are real.
    I made it up. I read an article about ND of P stating that America is 89% Christian. I agree 11% is generous but it is hard to tell. I know that 10% of past co-workers and friends, etc, are not really Christians. More like one in a hundred.

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    Unobtanium singular_me's Avatar
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Its the advent of socialism thats the cancer.
    lets look at the causes instead of the consequences.

    and why socilism did work out so well in the first place: because the average people think that enforcing altruism is good... now the IMF packages rescue the entire planet.

    sorry to rub it in - again. The bottom line is that too much good is evil... what masses need to be taught is that giving must equal recievng.

    Giving endlessly doesnt work - takers have comprehended this as they institutonalized a profit based society. The main reason as why sound money cannot win over.

    Any system not going along with it, is doomed to fail. Dictatoship/fascism will arise.
    All the money that exists cannot buy Earth, and the evidence is that we destroy our habitat as a result, thinking that we can just seize and pillage as we see fit. If crowds endorse the pursuit of wealth at their own level, they cannot prevent multinationals from doing exactly the same. The “dystopian endless growth paradigm” is going to end with a bang but will open the door to a premise endorsing that Earth is the only wealth we truly have while journeying through life.

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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by singular_me
    Its the advent of socialism thats the cancer.
    lets look at the causes instead of the consequences.

    and why socilism did work out so well in the first place: because the average people think that enforcing altruism is good... now the IMF packages rescue the entire planet.

    sorry to rub it in - again. The bottom line is that too much good is evil... what masses need to be taught is that giving must equal recievng.

    Giving endlessly doesnt work - takers have comprehended this as they instituted a profit based society. The main reason as why sound money cannot win.

    Any system not going along with it, is doomed to fail. Dictatoship/fascism will arise.
    See........there your MO............anything to try and justify socialism by coding it......altruism?
    Wow.......any trick to push your agenda that satan is above God. Just like any true antiGod socialist/communist would.
    You have never looked at the history of Social Security have you?
    FDR had to threaten the Supreme Court to get it passed. The Supreme Court looked at SS as an unconstitutional piece of legislature, so FDR threaten the SC that he would stack the SC judges so if it did go to SC thered be enough judges to deem it not worthy to review.
    Nobody has any right to take/steal from one to give to another. The People of the United States of America didnt ratify the Constitution allowing the government to impliment Social Security socialism. And the People didnt come up with the idea of taking from one to give to another as an act.
    Do you know what an "ACT" of Congress is compared to a "RATIFICATION" to the US Constitution so you can understand that Social Security is by no means to be considered in any way "altruism"?
    Who can ratify the Constitution singular?......who?
    When you figure that one out you can figure out who writes up and passes Acts?

    Do you see the difference that the People didnt ratify the Constitution to impliment Social Security as an amendment?
    You are so uneducated its pathetic Singular.
    Was it altruism that murdered millions and took all property ownership from the Russian People or forced Marxism?
    Where do you see that marxism is to much good that its evil?

    Get a grib Singular or you'll most likely lose your very soul to the firey pit where communism/socialism is headed.

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    Great Value Carrots StackerKen's Avatar
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrism
    Quote Originally Posted by greenbear
    Considering that more like 89% of Americans aren't true Christians then we'd be joining in prayer with people who are praying to demons. At least the World Invocation Day is straightforward, praying against Christians.
    I don't know where you get your number (89%) from, but that seems to match my experience in traveling. Even that is being a little generous. When I visit different church groups and really get to know the people, the sense is more like 10% of the 10% are real.
    Greenbear and Spectrism.

    Im curouis now.

    Im not sure what you mean exactly....

    I know we can recognize them by their fruits ...

    and we can know that we ourself's are saved by the spirit living in us.(and changing us)

    But we can't know for sure if another person is saved or not...can we?

    I found this....tell me what you two think about the answer.



    Question: "What is a carnal Christian?"

    Answer: Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let’s first define the term “carnal.” The word “carnal” is translated from the Greek word sarkikos, which literally means “fleshly.” This descriptive word is seen in the context of Christians in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. In this passage, the apostle Paul is addressing the readers as “brethren,” a term he uses almost exclusively to refer to other Christians; he then goes on to describe them as “carnal.” Therefore, we can conclude that Christians can be carnal. The Bible is absolutely clear that no one is sinless (1 John 1:8). Every time we sin, we are acting carnally.

    The key thing to understand is that while a Christian can be, for a time, carnal, a true Christian will not remain carnal for a lifetime. Some have abused the idea of a “carnal Christian” by saying that it is possible for people to come to faith in Christ and then proceed to live the rest of their lives in a completely carnal manner, with no evidence of being born again or a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). Such a concept is completely unbiblical. James 2 makes it abundantly clear that genuine faith will always result in good works. Ephesians 2:8-10 declares that while we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, that salvation will result in works. Can a Christian, in a time of failure and/or rebellion, appear to be carnal? Yes. Will a true Christian remain carnal? No.

    Since eternal security is a fact of Scripture, even the carnal Christian is still saved. Salvation cannot be lost, because salvation is a gift of God that He will not take away (see John 10:28; Romans 8:37-39; 1 John 5:13). Even in 1 Corinthians 3:15, the carnal Christian is assured of salvation: “If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” The question is not whether a person who claims to be a Christian but lives carnally has lost his salvation, but whether that person was truly saved in the first place (1 John 2:19).

    Christians who become carnal in their behavior can expect God to lovingly discipline them (Hebrews 12:5-11) so they can be restored to close fellowship with Him and be trained to obey Him. God’s desire in saving us is that we would progressively grow closer to the image of Christ (Romans 12:1-2), becoming increasingly spiritual and decreasingly carnal, a process known as sanctification. Until we are delivered from our sinful flesh, there will be outbreaks of carnality. For a genuine believer in Christ, though, these outbreaks of carnality will be the exception, not the rule.
    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." T.J.

    Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. (MJK)

    Silence is Treason!

  9. #19
    Iridium Spectrism's Avatar
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by StackerKen
    Greenbear and Spectrism.

    Im curouis now.

    Im not sure what you mean exactly....

    I know we can recognize them by their fruits ...

    and we can know that we ourself's are saved by the spirit living in us.(and changing us)

    But we can't know for sure if another person is saved or not...can we?

    Ever hear the phrase- it takes one to know one?

    When I was in the military I could spot another soldier and I could very easily spot a fake. I still can- and I have been out for 25 years.

    I have been in church groups and sensed someone carrying the Spirit nearby. And I don't just mean alive in the Spirit- but bleeding the Spirit like water to dry plants. If we could only see what He is doing around us we would be shamed and awed.

    Other times I guessed and missed horribly. This is why I test those around me. I want to see what color blood they bleed... and it usually is not a pleasant experience. I know the sinner that is me and how wretched I am. I can apply that same brute honesty to others. God is not impressed with how "holy" we appear to be or how many works we do. He visits those who crucify their own flesh and will meet Him with a humble and honest heart.

    As I implied, I meet few with that brutal honesty but there are about 10% who wear the trappings of the family.
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    Re: National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional, Judge Rules

    The judge is FOS. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That has nothing to do with making a holiday. Even specifying a holiday for prayer does not respect an establishment of religion.

    Who put this twit on the bench when he can't understand such a simple distinction?

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