Is a travel trailer a stupid idea for TSHTF scenario?

[Cebu_4_2]

1-10 is a baseline braking, IE: 1 for empty trailer and 10 being a heavy ass vehicle.

The pendulum can compare to the "surge" activated setup. Adding more braking as it senses slowing down than just the 1-10 setting.

My first electric brake box only had 1-10 (or min to max) and if I needed to stop faster than casual could become disastrous. That's when I looked more into them and discovered the pendulum thing. Thinking back the simple one might have been 40 or 50 bux and the deluxxe with added pendulum might have been more like 79 or 89 IIRC. I learned about the pendulum deluxxe when I stopped at a horse bording place and spoke with the owner. I explained what was going on and he laughed that the trailer place didn't even offer anything different. He actually sold them in the flower shop connected to the stables. I used that unit in a few vehicles over about 15 years.

[Cebu_4_2]

saying his old one was a PITA, didn't swing back right relieving the brake when he was trying to take off again.

Shitty unit or more than likely not set level.

[PatColo]

This forum mod Gary appears to be like the heavy there, >69K posts. Says, among other things, pendulum is old-tech nowdaze.

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Re: New to & Looking to Buy a Used Tow Dolly Could use Some Help on Price and Model

« Reply #11 on: Today at 07:39:12 AM »

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Backing up any tow dolly is problematic at best. You can probably manage 4-6 feet straight back, though. Not sure how a surge brake model would react - they do tend to lock the dolly brakes if you push backwards. On pavement where it rolls easily the backing is probably do-able, but on a softer surface (more drag) or a slight uphill, the surge brake will engage to some degree. I don't think you can manually overcome it, plus you don't want people between the coach and the towed car anyway. Too much risk if somebody slips.

Surge systems used to get unreliable after a year or two, largely due to road dirt & corrosion of the moving parts (it's strictly a mechanical device). That no longer seems to be much problem, perhaps due to better materials. It's still smart to clean and lube the mechanism from time to time.

You can get a electric controller adequate for a dolly for as little as $45, but installation cost is a killer if you have to hire it out. Probably $250 at least and more like $500 at an RV place. Check around at a U-Haul or other hitch shop, or any independent auto shop. It's not rocket science or RV-specific.


« Last Edit: Today at 07:52:45 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »

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DolphinChad

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Re: New to & Looking to Buy a Used Tow Dolly Could use Some Help on Price and Model

« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:54:26 AM »

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Thx Crow & Gary. http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/Smi...ult/smiley.gif

part of my confusion is re how electric brakes moderate the intensity with which the trailer brakes apply, IE driver tapping brakes for light/gradual speed reduction, vs slamming brakes in emergency, all the while the brake controller is set at say, '5'. So I gather (all?) electric brakes also have a mechanical pendulum jobee, which... what? Does it 'override' the 1 - 10 brake controller setting when nec? Or is it always the main mechanism deciding trailer braking intensity, like how surge brakes work? In which case, what's the 1 - 10 setting on the controller left to do?! http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/Smi.../undecided.gif

in this 15 min vid from 2014, whiteboard dude explains electric brakes & towards the end, tells how his old setup w pendulum was a PITA, as pendulum didn't swing back right, or not quick enough or some such, so trailer was still braking as he was trying to take off again

"What's a Trailer Brake Controller"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZGP4gVGvI

...and he goes on to boast of his new truck & fancy/spendy new trailer braking system which is somehow computerized in how it moderates trailer braking intensity. Jump to around 12/13 min mark to skip all the electric brakes 101 stuff. http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/Smi...fault/cool.gif

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Re: New to & Looking to Buy a Used Tow Dolly Could use Some Help on Price and Model

« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:07:03 PM »

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RE the "backing up w tow dolly = problematic even w/o surge-braking issue", I tend to dismiss this. In a modern rig w rear view cam looking down at full tow-car picture++, driver would need to be retarded to still allow a jackknifing to happen. Plus I anticipate, any (categorically 'unforeseen') needs to back up would near-always mean a matter of a few feet, likely at a gas station, or maybe u find urself too close behind a stopped vehicle, which u only then learn is stalled/broken down, & u need a few extra feet in front to clear a turn past them...

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Re: New to & Looking to Buy a Used Tow Dolly Could use Some Help on Price and Model

« Reply #14 on: Today at 03:47:01 PM »

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Mechanical pendulums are old tech - most every electric brake controller uses a solid state device (an accelerometer) to measure the rate of change of speed. There are various degrees of sophistication of the proportion control and of course the pricey ones do the better job.

The simplest controllers are time delayed and increase braking (amps to the brakes) as time passes. The longer you push on the brake pedal, the greater the amps to the trailer brakes. If you ride the brake pedal, braking of the trailer increases whether you are pushing hard of easy. More expensive ones use an accelerometer to apply braking amps in proportion to the rate of deceleration. Proportional braking is of significant value on heavy trailers, but not a big deal when you have a large vehicle towing a modest load (like a light car on a dolly). Proportional is still better than time delay, but [in my opinion] the difference in performance is not as important.

The gain and aggressiveness settings on any controllers gives you some manual control on the amount of braking. Think of it as a volume knob on a sound system. The pre-recorded music still defines the basic volume, but you can scale it up or down using the volume knob. A control for aggressiveness or sensitivity provides some additional control on how quickly the braking increases. Reducing aggressiveness slows down the braking "attack". Again, valuable controls for big rigs, but not hugely important for 3000-4000 lb trailers behind a 15k-20k tow vehicle.


By all means install the best brake controller you can afford, but budget seemed to be a concern here.

[Cebu_4_2]

Mechanical pendulums are old tech - most every electric brake controller uses a solid state device (an accelerometer) to measure the rate of change of speed. There are various degrees of sophistication of the proportion control and of course the pricey ones do the better job.

Proportional braking is of significant value on heavy trailers, but not a big deal when you have a large vehicle towing a modest load (like a light car on a dolly). Proportional is still better than time delay, but [in my opinion] the difference in performance is not as important.

Proportional is the pendulum brake box. I am sure they have come a long way in 25 years but the basics are the same. This is what I suggested vs a surge or plain 1-10 black box. Sounds like a very knowledgeable forum there with a lot of experience.

[PatColo]

RE: Thread: Soooo anyways... got my car nicked.

Remember how my former Fit brought the "not flat towable" dilemma?

^ yes that towing U describe is called "flat towing" or "4-down" ref'ing all 4 of towed vehicle's wheels on the ground rolling/braking. Only a minority of vehicles even qualify to have the nec preps for it, which incl a "base plate" mounting + wiring + steering bypass work, costing ~$4-6K alone... My honda doesn't qualify, arguably a 'mistake' I made in choosing it before motorhome shopping/learning. U'll notice the 4-down vehicles many RVers tow are Jeeps, which all come standard with some special features anticipating being flat towed. But there are many other flat towable vehicle options as well.

and yes I think every tow dolly I've seen has been 100-102" (8.5') wide! That's same width as my rig & guessing class-As generally, but much wider than the biggest of pickup trucks! I didn't even get into the "tow dolly steering" options in my 'braking systems' post above. Some dollies have wheels which 'steer' just a bit themselves; on others the belly plate where the car's (locked) front wheels rest, that belly plate swivels just a bit... 9 degrees in the case of at least one Demco model I looked at. Others have no such steering assistance on the dolly itself, & reco/require car's steering wheel be UNlocked allowing car's front wheels to turn a bit as car is being pulled around turns.

I'm still too nooby at this point to appreciate the significance of these features... like, if in a turn, my rig's rear inside/pivot wheel is able to clear a corner/obstacle, does that mean the 8.5' wide dolly's same wheel will clear it too?!

this RV-vlogging couple shares their experience leading to "divorcing their dolly" & getting a flat towable jeep as their dinghy, 15m:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9VkVTfuT8

So the latest direction my thinking has been blowing is, buy a new-to-me dinghy which is already flat-tow outfitted!

YES!! eliminates the whole dolly dilemma IE choosing which one, maybe needing elec brake controller installed, expense, how/where to store the wretched beast during the 99.x% of time it's not in use; & then there's the whole conveeeeniece of ~2 min connect/disconnect!!

AND, with just me & Chad until further notice, I'm free to travel a ways to pick up said dinghy... surrounding states perhaps, given the unlikelihood of finding an ideal specimen right in/near Sac. This would also mark my 'Virgin Real-RV-Journey' -- as of today, ~2.5 months after buying Chad, I've personally driven it, I figure about 20 miles!

Why didn't one of yous knuckleheads think of that already?! Some GSUS Brain Trust yawl turned out to be, sheesh!

Only small thing is, I figure I'm almost surely going above the initial <$20K area I was set on -- I'll still have to dive into this niche used-market & find out for sure.

Need to even figure out where to tap said market, "browse inventory" etc. I went to autotrader.com & entered keywords 'flat tow*' & a bunch of new big trucks came up coz the search engine zeros in on the word tow*.

Off hand atm, I'm thinking like, a Jeep Liberty, year/mileage/etc to be determined.


edit: Topic: ISO: Marketplace for already flat-tow outfitted dinghys

complete guide to flat towable dinghys
https://www.motorhome.com/download-dinghy-guides/

[ziero0]

A friend with a mechanical engineering degree,a motorhome and some spare time figured out how to circulate the motorhomes atf oil thru the transmission of the towed vehicle so he didn't need a dolly.

[PatColo]

this RV-vlogging couple shares their experience leading to "divorcing their dolly" & getting a flat towable jeep as their dinghy, 15m:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9VkVTfuT8

^ watched that again, very helpful, & noticed their bang-on helpful followup vid, 13m:

Flat Tow Follow Up - Your Questions Answered - Full Time RV




^ recall my "need to find a woman who can drive our dinghy +++" soliloquy in my nicked Fit thread?

I've always wondered why that Biff/Buffy TX couple didn't just do that, IE, SHE DRIVE THEIR DAMN DINGHY & dispense with all the tow equipment/$$ hassle?!! Plus this'd give the man, at least, some much needed "cave time" now & then AWAY from the b*tch for awhile?! Right, "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" guy?!

Guessing they're just trad that way. They (read: SHE) want the "proper/romantic" RV life, IE he commanding the rig, while she's in the passenger seat navigating & otherwise yapping about the view/whatever.

Meh, that'd often be nice, no doubt. I'm burdened by seeing the world through my frugal, always-seeking-best-value eyes! Plus, imagining my own much-needed cave time; & juggling that with a woman/GF/travel-mate both 'living' in Chad scenario?!

[PatColo]

Aircon question...

Sacratomato has hit 100+ the past 3 days, & 80s-90s have been routine daily highs for past ~2 months. So lots of aircon usage.

Some basics I don't properly understand about aircon... cutting to the chase: does it make sense, or is it sacreligious, to have one of the ceiling skylight/vents popped open in an aircon'd space like an RV let alone a bricks & sticks structure?

Coz muh heat rises, right? So this would seem to give it an escape route... plus the inside & outside air have a place to exchange, letting inside impurities escape, & any O2/CO2 imbalances 'correct', if only by osmosis... so I'd imagine the inside air could be kept "fresher", less "canned."

Is this misguided? IE will the aircon need to work harder, or less.... vs all windows/skylights closed? Thus far I've been keeping everything buttoned up, thinking for the same reason we don't keep our fridge door ajar... but today, expecting a more agreeable high of 84, I'm trying out keeping a ceiling port popped open, with the climate thermostat set at its usual 77.

thoughts?

[midnight rambler]

You increase your heat load by opening a vent like that in really hot weather, so your A/C is working harder. Not by much, but it does increase the heat load somewhat.

[osoab]

Park under a tree if possible.