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Thread: Roll over Einstein: Law of physics challenged

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    Unobtanium osoab's Avatar
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    Roll over Einstein: Law of physics challenged

    Roll over Einstein: Law of physics challenged
    GENEVA (AP) -- One of the very pillars of physics and Einstein's theory of relativity - that nothing can go faster than the speed of light - was rocked Thursday by new findings from one of the world's foremost laboratories.
    European researchers said they clocked an oddball type of subatomic particle called a neutrino going faster than the 186,282 miles per second that has long been considered the cosmic speed limit.

    The claim was met with skepticism, with one outside physicist calling it the equivalent of saying you have a flying carpet. In fact, the researchers themselves are not ready to proclaim a discovery and are asking other physicists to independently try to verify their findings.

    "The feeling that most people have is this can't be right, this can't be real," said James Gillies, a spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, which provided the particle accelerator that sent neutrinos on their breakneck 454-mile trip underground from Geneva to Italy.

    Going faster than light is something that is just not supposed to happen according to Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity - the one made famous by the equation E equals mc2. But no one is rushing out to rewrite the science books just yet.

    It is "a revolutionary discovery if confirmed," said Indiana University theoretical physicist Alan Kostelecky, who has worked on this concept for a quarter of a century.

    Stephen Parke, who is head theoretician at the Fermilab near Chicago and was not part of the research, said: "It's a shock. It's going to cause us problems, no doubt about that - if it's true."

    Even if these results are confirmed, they won't change at all the way we live or the way the world works. After all, these particles have presumably been speed demons for billions of years. But the finding will fundamentally alter our understanding of how the universe operates, physicists said.

    Einstein's special relativity theory, which says that energy equals mass times the speed of light squared, underlies "pretty much everything in modern physics," said John Ellis, a theoretical physicist at CERN who was not involved in the experiment. "It has worked perfectly up until now."

    France's National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research collaborated with Italy's Gran Sasso National Laboratory on the experiment at CERN.
    CERN reported that a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds. (A nanosecond is one-billionth of a second.)

    Given the enormous implications of the find, the researchers spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there were no flaws in the experiment.

    A team at Fermilab had similar faster-than-light results in 2007, but a large margin of error undercut its scientific significance.

    If anything is going to throw a cosmic twist into Einstein's theories, it's not surprising that it's the strange particles known as neutrinos. These are odd slivers of an atom that have confounded physicists for about 80 years.

    The neutrino has almost no mass, comes in three different "flavors," may have its own antiparticle and has been seen shifting from one flavor to another while shooting out from our sun, said physicist Phillip Schewe, communications director at the Joint Quantum Institute in Maryland.

    Columbia University physicist Brian Greene, author of the book "Fabric of the Cosmos," said neutrinos theoretically can travel at different speeds depending on how much energy they have. And some mysterious particles whose existence is still only theorized could be similarly speedy, he said.

    Fermilab team spokeswoman Jenny Thomas, a physics professor at the University College of London, said there must be a "more mundane explanation" for the European findings. She said Fermilab's experience showed how hard it is to measure accurately the distance, time and angles required for such a claim.
    Nevertheless, Fermilab, which shoots neutrinos from Chicago to Minnesota, has already begun working to try to verify or knock down the new findings.
    And that's exactly what the team in Geneva wants.

    Gillies told The Associated Press that the readings have so astounded researchers that "they are inviting the broader physics community to look at what they've done and really scrutinize it in great detail, and ideally for someone elsewhere in the world to repeat the measurements."

    Only two labs elsewhere in the world can try to replicate the work: Fermilab and a Japanese installation that has been slowed by the tsunami and earthquake. And Fermilab's measuring systems aren't nearly as precise as the Europeans' and won't be upgraded for a while, said Fermilab scientist Rob Plunkett.

    Drew Baden, chairman of the physics department at the University of Maryland, said it is far more likely that the CERN findings are the result of measurement errors or some kind of fluke. Tracking neutrinos is very difficult, he said.
    "This is ridiculous what they're putting out," Baden said. "Until this is verified by another group, it's flying carpets. It's cool, but ..."

    So if the neutrinos are pulling this fast one on Einstein, how can it happen?
    Parke said there could be a cosmic shortcut through another dimension - physics theory is full of unseen dimensions - that allows the neutrinos to beat the speed of light.

    Indiana's Kostelecky theorizes that there are situations when the background is different in the universe, not perfectly symmetrical as Einstein says. Those changes in background may alter both the speed of light and the speed of neutrinos.

    But that doesn't mean Einstein's theory is ready for the trash heap, he said.
    "I don't think you're going to ever kill Einstein's theory. You can't. It works," Kostelecky said. There are just times when an additional explanation is needed, he said.

    If the European findings are correct, "this would change the idea of how the universe is put together," Columbia's Greene said. But he added: "I would bet just about everything I hold dear that this won't hold up to scrutiny."
    “Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses. It is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
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    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Unobtanium Dogman's Avatar
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    Just for a note..

    need to look into this,but think , false flag bull shit , from the jew haters.
    "My reading no matter how transient is a dagger in the heart of ignorance."

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    Great Value Carrots steyr_m's Avatar
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    Einstein's theories will go on just like the 6 million. Facts don't matter. It'll be squashed one way or another.
    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum - I think that I think, therefore I think that I am

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    Great Value Carrots steyr_m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Just for a note..

    need to look into this,but think , false flag bull shit , from the jew haters.
    For the record, I don't hate Jewish people. I do not like "We are the master race" Zionists.
    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum - I think that I think, therefore I think that I am

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  5. #5
    Joe King
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    Why can't something go faster than the speed of light anyways? I understand the theory, but it's still just a theory.

    Didn't people also used to believe you couldn't go faster than the speed of sound too? All it took to do so was the correct equipment. I don't see why the speed of light should really be any different.

    Although it could be, I suppose. Just gotta make a rod that can go that fast and then go find out.

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    Platinum undgrd's Avatar
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    We don't know what we don't know. That's enough for me to believe that ANYTHING is possible.
    I'd like to think that all of this constant interaction is just the kind of make you drive yourself away
    Each simple gesture done by me is counteracted and leaves me standing here with nothing else to say

    Completely baffled by a backward indication that an inspired word will come across your tongue
    Hands moving upward to propel the situation have simply halted and now the conversation's done

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    Unobtanium osoab's Avatar
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    What would happen if you were standing in front of that neutrino beam?
    “Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses. It is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
    H.L. Mencken

    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
    H. L. Mencken

  8. #8
    Joe King
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    Quote Originally Posted by osoab View Post
    What would happen if you were standing in front of that neutrino beam?
    I dunno.

    Wanna be a guinea pig?

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    Great Value Carrots
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    Unfortunately the MSM only allows stupid sociopaths half ways pretending to know science to report on science. It makes for crappy science reporting, but more importantly ensures the masses are kept stupid pretending smart.

    Nothing can go faster than the speed of light at the same frequency or lower than light's.

    'Einstien', as sold the the masses, successfully occulted frequencies higher than light's (photon's) even though Einstien himself admitted they have to exist.

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    Unobtanium
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    Re: Roll over Einstein: Law of physics challenged

    All of Einstiens theory of relativity has been proven except this one about to be proven this week.

    This is an old thread and the latest Einstien news could go into a new thread BUT I just read Kehahs post and it quite simply nails it. Note closely the bold and underlined.

    Quote Originally Posted by keehah View Post
    Unfortunately the MSM only allows stupid sociopaths half ways pretending to know science to report on science. It makes for crappy science reporting, but more importantly ensures the masses are kept stupid pretending smart.

    Nothing can go faster than the speed of light at the same frequency or lower than light's.

    'Einstien', as sold the the masses, successfully occulted frequencies higher than light's (photon's) even though Einstien himself admitted they have to exist.
    So From the article.
    Every single prediction from Einstein's 1915 theory has been proven by direct experimental evidence - except one: the existence of gravitational waves.
    Nice little fantasy picture.... very common product from modern science. imagination.


    We could be just hours away from their confirmation.
    Their discovery could open up a new branch of astronomy and help us in the search for a grand unified theory of matter.
    A joint press conference in Europe and the US at 2.30am AEST on Friday by scientists from the LIGO experiment in the US will issue "an update on these tiny ripples in the fabric of space-time".

    If it is direct confirmation of their existence, it's kind of a big deal.
    Every Star Trek or Doctor Who enthusiast will have heard of space-time - the very fabric of our universe.
    Einstein's theory upended Newton's understanding of gravity by showing that matter and time were inextricably linked. Rather than gravity being an instantaneous attraction between objects across infinite space, Einstein showed that space-time was the four-dimensional structure of the universe whereby matter, energy and gravity were all mediated through space-time, with interactions limited to no faster than the speed of light.

    Gravitational waves are an inevitable conclusion drawn from this theory.
    So again, the limit is the speed of light. Nothing can go faster, even though there are faster things

    Read the article and you might conclude it's a total crock. Apparently they are going to measure a gravity wave based upon it's lengthening affect upon one leg of their L shaped Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory.

    Basically they are expecting one leg of their Observatory to increase in length because of the affect of GW's. How long will this increase in size be?

    Wait for it. 10,000 times less than the smallest width of a proton. And this will prove grav waves?

    from the The Age
    Great minds discuss Ideas, Average minds discuss Events, Small minds discuss People. E.R.

    Anytime I'm in doubt I go outside and give it a little shake.
    Liberty Tree.


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