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Thread: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

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    “A nation…cannot survive treason from within…the traitor …wears the face of his victims,…and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared…….” Cicero, 42 B.C.E.

    "It's not a matter of what is true (reality) that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true (reality)." --Henry Kissinger

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    At this time I don't know what to say at this time.
    At this time it LOOKS like a LOT of mud to me.
    I AM not saying I like Fred or Nina.
    They did give some good info that I did know of at the time I was there.
    So do go to setoffdebt.com and see the 7.5.12 and see what THEY have to say..
    As I said it looks to be a lot of mud.
    My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not??
    Deception is a state of mind and the mind of the State
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    For you don't know what you don't know!

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomoss View Post
    At this time I don't know what to say at this time.
    At this time it LOOKS like a LOT of mud to me.
    I AM not saying I like Fred or Nina.
    They did give some good info that I did know of at the time I was there.
    So do go to setoffdebt.com and see the 7.5.12 and see what THEY have to say..
    As I said it looks to be a lot of mud.
    My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not??
    I remember you posting about this and a test of the process. I was thinking of this just the other day. Ok so it will be interesting to see if the set off sticks.

    I think with these two people, their process of creating the document has some potential to cause problems. Specifically the use of a cancelled check book, check as a remittance or sight draft. I think that could lead to issues with respect of fraud. And yes this process of EFT they promoted is not their own process. Simply a new label for what is fundamentally the same process as set off. Set off is perfectly legal and used in business all of the time. Set off is usually documented in law/code/statute dealing with bills of exchange. It's just a matter of having some thing to set off against.
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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    somebody posting from a website that is named nesara anything says disinfo so loud I can't hear anything else.

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    Fred's own brother John has set up a website denouncing Fred's activities. www.eftscam.com

    An email from Jack and Margy Flynn -

    Hi, All,

    Important F.Y.I.

    This email came to us from John Gutierrez, the eldest son of the family into which Fred Gutierrez was born. John has been in contact with us for a few weeks, now, about what Fred & Nina Gutierrez, along with Kelby Smith, are doing with their seminars and their "setoffdebt.com" website.

    Once John learned the extent of the fraud which these three "ministers" are perpetrating in seminars throughout the country, inducing attendees to give "donations" to get "free" help to get rid of their debts, John told us he was horrified, alarmed, outraged and very concerned that his family name is being ruined. He is very upset that Fred and Nina are using "God and family" to deceive people.

    John said he is fully intent on stopping Fred, Nina and Kelby from doing this and is seeking complaints in the form of affidavits from anyone who has been deceived by them and their phony "process". To this end, John has just created a website to counter their scam, which you can access by the link included below. He also arranged a conference call on talkshoe with Tad Patterson which took place this past Tuesday night. You can hear the recorded call by going to the talkshoe site.

    If you or anyone you know has been victimized by Fred, Nina and Kelby, please check out the website, which has audio and written accounts of real people's bad experiences with them, as well as information which rebuts the false claims made by Fred and shows Kelby Smith to be a longtime scam artist. The link to John's website is below, as well as a link to talkshoe.




    Please send this email far and wide, and encourage everyone who may have been duped by these conscienceless people to contact John and to make complaints to the authorities.









    Best regards,





    Margy and Jack










    -----

    John's Newly Created Website


    www.eftscam.com







    http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web...d=46256&cmd=tc


    Phone Number:
    (724) 444-7444
    Call ID: 46256













    “A nation…cannot survive treason from within…the traitor …wears the face of his victims,…and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared…….” Cicero, 42 B.C.E.

    "It's not a matter of what is true (reality) that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true (reality)." --Henry Kissinger

    ding ding - calling Pavlov's dog

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjon View Post
    somebody posting from a website that is named nesara anything says disinfo so loud I can't hear anything else.
    So, what are your thoughts on the Flynns?

    And did you examine the info at the link in the OP?
    “A nation…cannot survive treason from within…the traitor …wears the face of his victims,…and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared…….” Cicero, 42 B.C.E.

    "It's not a matter of what is true (reality) that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true (reality)." --Henry Kissinger

    ding ding - calling Pavlov's dog

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not??
    The Individuals Representing Satan like any leviathan is slow to start moving, but once it moves is virtually impossible to stop. Yes, time WILL tell. Good luck with that.
    “A nation…cannot survive treason from within…the traitor …wears the face of his victims,…and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared…….” Cicero, 42 B.C.E.

    "It's not a matter of what is true (reality) that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true (reality)." --Henry Kissinger

    ding ding - calling Pavlov's dog

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    Quote Originally Posted by midnight rambler View Post
    So, what are your thoughts on the Flynns?


    And did you examine the info at the link in the OP?
    Don't know anything about the flynns and didn't look at much besides the comments, which also didn't speak very highly of the info presented.

    Time will tell, it did sound too good to be true, but we know we create money with our signature on a note. What's the difference when we set off debt by signing a check against a dead checkbook account? It sounds like the same thing to me.

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    What's the difference when we set off debt by signing a check against a dead checkbook account?
    The only thing I've ever heard about using a check from a closed account is that it will get one in deep shit. I'd love to hear at least three first hand accounts where this has worked and there've been no repercussions a couple of years downrange.

    I have no issue with the notion that we create (what passes for) money with our signature.
    “A nation…cannot survive treason from within…the traitor …wears the face of his victims,…and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared…….” Cicero, 42 B.C.E.

    "It's not a matter of what is true (reality) that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true (reality)." --Henry Kissinger

    ding ding - calling Pavlov's dog

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    Re: Fred and Nina Gutierrez update

    The only thing I do know is our whole system is replete with one lie stacked on top of another lie. Everywhere you look nothing but lies, banking, courts, politics, government.

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