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Thread: Geocentrism

  1. #11
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Quote Originally Posted by DMac View Post
    JQP appears to be mentioned in the comments of this link on this subject:

    http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...galileo-wrong/



    Robert Sungenis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sungenis
    I have been working on this issue with Robert Sungenis since about 2003. I have some involvement in a movie project which is going to blow the lid off this. We have interviewed George Ellis, Max Tegmark, Lawrence Krauss, and may others.

    I know what your initial reaction is, and I understand it. When I first came across this, I had a similar reaction. I urge all of you to keep an open mind on this. The banks are in waa-waa land, the govt. is too. Most of society is in waa-waa land. Do you think cosmology is any different? It is the underlying philosophical assumptions of all these organizations that are leading to the current chaos everywhere. It is the largely anti-Christian/anti-Western perspective that leads to all of this. Keep in mind that cosmology is 90-95% philosophy and 5-10% science (we asked most of the interviewees this question, and they pretty much all answered supporting this conjecture). Again, George Ellis, "What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that." I would give pure science and engineering the position of being more rational than much of society, but cosmology is far from pure science.

  2. #12
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Robert Sungenis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sungenis

    Geocentrism

    Sungenis has become known for his advocacy of geocentrism. He believes that physics and the Bible prove that the sun and all the planets orbit the Earth and that the Earth does not rotate. In support of his beliefs, Sungenis published the book Galileo Was Wrong in the hope that people will "give Scripture its due place and show that science is not all it's cracked up to be." Mainstream scientists reject this cosmological view as demonstrably false and untenable.[13]


    This is typical Wikipedia. What can I say. You notice that Wikipedia attacks him hardest for what- his view on the Jews. The statement that geocentrism is demonstrably false is ludicrous, and written by an amateur. A true statement would be "Mainstream scientists reject this cosmological view as philosophically false and contra to their views."

    The funny thing is most cosmologists will not outright reject geocentrism. They will give reasons why they don't accept it, some scientific, some practical, but largely they will admit they cannot dismiss it entirely. It is mid-level scientists who get in a huff and claim that it is disproven. Just like the rest of society, they are spouting what they perceive to be the correct opinion. This is something you need to study on your own. Just like whether there are four or a lone shooter in Wisconsin, do not expect guidance from establishment sources.

  3. #13
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 View Post
    It's his damn forum; if he says the Earth is the center of the Universe, then dammit, the Earth is the center of the Universe.

    Some of you guys are making this harder than it needs to be.



    Having said that, since ancient days astrologers have used an Earth-based system (that is to say, the perception of the relative positions of the stars and planets as viewed from Earth).

    Here's a slick little app that shows where the planets are at any given time: http://www.theplanetstoday.com/
    I certainly do not want or expect everyone to agree with me for that reason. This is an intelligent group, and they rightfully should question what counters what they have believed since knee high. But given everything else we learn on this site, I hope they will be open minded enough to think this through before cognitive dissonance sets in! QUESTION THE ASSUMPTIONS FOLKS! Just think for a moment- if this is true, how does this change things? I would never promote something I did not believe was true, and after 10 years of studying this, I have yet to run into anyone who can disprove it. THINGS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM. It is not as obvious as many make it out to be.

    Get Galileo Was Wrong. The PDF version is pretty cheap.

    http://catholicintl.com/index.php/st...0&sort=nameAsc

    Don't get the abridged version. Get the full book. Volume I is the scientific part. Vol II is theological.

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  5. #14
    Frog Leg Whisperer chad's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    this may be a stupid question, but couldn't they just put up a satellite with a huge field of vision and set it up to watch the full range of everything for a year? it seem like ti would be pretty simple to do.

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    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    this may be a stupid question, but couldn't they just put up a satellite with a huge field of vision and set it up to watch the full range of everything for a year? it seem like ti would be pretty simple to do.
    What if the entire universe is rotating? What would you see? You are starting with the idea that space is a static container (Newton).

    If you are on a huge carousel (say at night so you do not see a fixed background, which is not available in THE universe), and you set-up a camera on an edge looking across the carousel, you will see a stationary carousel with a rotating center shaft. You could conclude from the images that the shaft is rotating and the carousel is staying still (kinetics). Now the dynamics are a different story, but general relativity and/or Mach's principle will account for the dynamics in the universe (as would other possible scenarios).

    It is not a stupid question. That is why I started with the "fixed reference" issue.

  7. #16
    Frog Leg Whisperer chad's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    i guess you couldn't really ever tell if the universe was rotating, because you'd have to be outside of it to observe this, correct? so, there's really no way of knowing :O

  8. #17
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    i guess you couldn't really ever tell if the universe was rotating, because you'd have to be outside of it to observe this, correct? so, there's really no way of knowing :O
    Bingo! You are past the first issue (reference point).

  9. #18
    Moderator madfranks's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Very interesting thread. I never even knew such a movement existed. To me it's more interesting that my whole life I've accepted the standard model as it's all I've ever known, and less interesting that geocentrism may or may not be a valid theory. How many other worldviews do we hold because we've never known an alternative?
    "Liberty is so creative, and the government is so stupid, that I’m very optimistic about the future"
    - Lew Rockwell

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  11. #19
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Geocentrism

    Quote Originally Posted by madfranks View Post
    Very interesting thread. I never even knew such a movement existed. To me it's more interesting that my whole life I've accepted the standard model as it's all I've ever known, and less interesting that geocentrism may or may not be a valid theory. How many other worldviews do we hold because we've never known an alternative?
    The awakening continues into new realms.

  12. #20
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    Re: Geocentrism

    My dome gets blown every single day on this forum.

    Thanks JQP. I now have some reading to do.

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