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Thread: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

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    Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    First, latest "The Realist Report with John Friend" podcast; 1hr 6m, direct MP3 link (26 MB):

    Wednesday, July 24, 2013

    The Realist Report with John Friend



    On this edition of The Realist Report, we'll be joined by Dr. Jim Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Dr. Fetzer and I will be discussing his recent debate with Dick Eastman on the Rense Radio network regarding the controversial issue of planes/no planes in New York City.

    Please visit The Realist Report on TalkeShoe to download this and past episodes.

    Here are some important links related to this discussion:





    Posted by John Friend at 10:28 AM

    1 comment:
    Cross-posting the following into the comments @ JF's blog thread for this podcast-- will be posting as "Anonymous" and so there will be lag time as JF moderates the comments there. I've posted as anon there in the past with sometimes critical remarks, and JF has always accepted it, to his credit. Indeed, the first and only comment there now [Anonymous July 24, 2013 at 12:23 PM] is one critical of the 2 JFs (JFetzer & JFriend) "No Planes @ WTC" theory.


    ________snip_________


    First off, hats off to John for posting comments submitted by 'Anons' which are critical of your beliefs/conclusions! This engenders a lot of trust in your legitimacy/sincerity. This is also posted as a discussion thread at:
    http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthre...s-WTC-campaign
    where you can read a much 'richer' version of it, with embedded links, slicker formatting, dedicated followup discussion etc.

    I believe the "No Planes @ WTC" (NP@WTC) theory is, as far as our 'movement' is concerned, a red herring at best. And at worst, it 'accomplishes' 2 destructive ends:


    1. It temps/baits 911 Truthers into expending our energies into a "dogs chasing our tails" infighting ditch, over a speculative & irrelevant (as far as the forward movement of our 'movement' is concerned) question of HOW the 911 psyop was technically done. Not our job to completely resolve that question-- let's not dwell on the "technicals of the smoking gun", and instead focus all that same energy on waking up NEW people outside our 'choir', and on identifying & prosecuting the perps.

    2. Given that the NP@WTC theory is, IMHO, practically tailor-made for targeting by our opponents with their powerful disinfo gambit of 'ridicule' (and I say this as a ~10 year Truther who diplomatically "allows for the possibility" that NP@WTC is in fact correct, though I don't presently subscribe to that belief!); it therefore turns OFF not ON potential newcomers to 'our movement'. That is, IF those in our movement who misguidedly 'take the bait' outlined in #1 above, have any energy left over for actual outreach to noobs!


    Fetzer & Friend would, assuming their sincerity, obviously disagree with the 2 points above. JFriend at 44:10 in this podcast, reiterating his already widely publicized belief:


    "Well, there's all sorts of reason to conclude that there were no planes that hit the World Trade Center Towers; I mean, the evidence seems pretty overwhelming at this point."


    Fetzer @ 19:35:


    "I think if the American people understood that they've been deceived by Hollywood style techniques, that they would revolutionize their understanding of 911. I mean, the fraud and fakery here is simply overwhelming. [JFriend: "Exactly."] So I believe this is tremendously important John, and I'm really pleased we're talking about it here today."


    Fetzer reiterated those ^ sentiments beginning 1:03:45 in his closing remarks, if not elsewhere in this podcast, which I won't transcribe here.

    Sorry guys ("The JFs" and all sincere NP@WTC advocates), I just aint buying it; that is, the notion that 'convincing' the American public of NP@WTC, as a way to "move our movement forward", is anything but fools' folly-- again, for reasons outlined in my assertions 1 & 2 above.

    As a college degreed & engineer certified American who's been awake to 911 since '03, I've loosely followed this "NP@WTC sideshow" for years; and I remain solidly UNconvinced of NP@WTC... viewing it, regardless of its potential truthfulness, as DEstructive to the forward movement of our movement. Hearing the NP@WTC crowd like Fetzer breathlessly citing the technical minutia alleging to 'make their case', has long since made my eyes glaze over! Think pragmatically guys!

    Surely the NP@WTC advocates would graciously 'allow for the possibility', that the very "video evidence" you cite as "proof positive of video fakery", could itself be video fakery? Produced and interjected into 'our movement' by the same Hollywood/CIA-Dept-Of-Fake-Osama-Videos™ cabal which has a bottomlessly-funded vested interest in sowing dissent/infighting into our movement rendering us ineffective in "moving anywhere", and in dissuading J6P-911-True-Believers OUT of further investigating our main message?

    That's enough blabbering on for here/now... though I and others will surely have more to add at the gold-silver.us link at the top.

    Thanks again John for posting this critical comment by a lowly 'anon' here. -PatColo
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    no planes is clearly a stupid conclusion to reach and it's a misdirector of tea party magnitude.

    No passenger jets hit the WTC's. How about that? I think that fixes everything. Doesn't make it easier IMO but does make it more correct. I don't pursue that line though. It is a bit oblique for just about everyone although it might be enough of a mental trip up that people do a double take on what I am saying. I might play around with that at the next opportunity.
    Great minds discuss Ideas, Average minds discuss Events, Small minds discuss People. E.R.

    Anytime I'm in doubt I go outside and give it a little shake.
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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    John has posted this (OP post) now, Anonymous July 24, 2013 at 11:48 PM --Cheers again John!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass View Post
    no planes is clearly a stupid conclusion to reach and it's a misdirector of tea party magnitude.
    yep,

    2. Given that the NP@WTC theory is, IMHO, practically tailor-made for targeting by our opponents with their powerful disinfo gambit of 'ridicule' (and I say this as a ~10 year Truther who diplomatically "allows for the possibility" that NP@WTC is in fact correct, though I don't presently subscribe to that belief!); it therefore turns OFF not ON potential newcomers to 'our movement'. That is, IF those in our movement who misguidedly 'take the bait' outlined in #1 above, have any energy left over for actual outreach to noobs!



    To "enter the realm of speculation", I'd guess the planes flown into the WTC, guessing by remote control, were specially designed mil aircraft. They plainly weren't the AA/UA passenger planes which the 911 perps purported, much less planes hijacked & flown by scary moozlems, as the perps' gov and their global weaponized media further purported to us.

    Also see:

    Thread: Lawson Video on Absurdity of "No Planes Hit WTC" Theory
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

    "If telling the truth marginalizes you, then that is the place to be. After all, if enough people are willing to be marginalized, then before you know it, society has developed a different center. This is the politics of truth." -- E. Martin Schotz

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    it does make me wonder if Fetzer is part of the disinfo campaign.

    he talks about how an aluminum plane travelling at an unspecified speed, slower than 500 mph, would not accordion to nothing (disappear into the building), yet he also talks about how it would disintegrate.


    let's be specific - we have limited experience with commercial airliners flying into buildings.

    for most of us, 9-11 was the only time we saw that happen.


    Holograms ? if you can't explain clearly how holograms work - and re-create one given the proper lab equipment - you don't know enough about holograms to discuss their use, other than to acknowledge the possilibility.

    100's of people saw large airplanes fly into the WTC buildings on 9-11. it is exceedingly difficult to fake that. there is a much easier way to accomplish the effect - and that is to fly large airplanes into buildings.
    Retired Director Morris Waxler says the FDA did not do their job for 15 years - and is not now.

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    Well, seeing all the actors in recent events and some during 9/11 (Harley Guy) i would not consider the no plane theory an impossibility.

    I used to consider it disinfo, but now I'm not sure.

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    If "John & Friends" are reading this, please understand I've been broadly supportive of you John, I think beginning here:

    The "Israel did 9/11" Thread


    And a Startpage search for:

    +PatColo "John Friend" host:gold-silver.us

    will turn up numerous other posts where I've promoted your work.

    Not 100% aligned with you though, as no thinking person should be with any other, see:

    Re: great truth radio podcast blog - no commercials!

    Quote Originally Posted by PatColo View Post
    that's a brand new talkshoe acct JFriend just opened, then uploaded all his past podcasts. On balance I really like JF (his blog here); some of his original articles are outstanding, and he's got a very polite/amicable personality in his podcasts. Knits to pick about him though: he's a dogmatic believer in "no planes at WTC" (says it was video-fakery/CGI) which I view as an un/counterproductive theory to promote even if it ends up being true which I don't believe it is. And more recently he's been getting more drawn into "Christian Identity" (aka CI, believe "Whites are the true jooz"...).

    Regardless,
    John Friend addressing Occupy San Diego- booed by fascists and shills



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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by gunDriller View Post
    it does make me wonder if Fetzer is part of the disinfo campaign.

    he talks about how an aluminum plane travelling at an unspecified speed, slower than 500 mph, would not accordion to nothing (disappear into the building), yet he also talks about how it would disintegrate.


    let's be specific - we have limited experience with commercial airliners flying into buildings.

    for most of us, 9-11 was the only time we saw that happen.


    Holograms ? if you can't explain clearly how holograms work - and re-create one given the proper lab equipment - you don't know enough about holograms to discuss their use, other than to acknowledge the possilibility.

    100's of people saw large airplanes fly into the WTC buildings on 9-11. it is exceedingly difficult to fake that. there is a much easier way to accomplish the effect - and that is to fly large airplanes into buildings.
    Fetzer used to like calling passenger jets "flying beer cans" in his breathless appeals promoting NP@WTC. Yeah fetz, "beer cans" with titanium air frames and engines!

    He's long been a sketchy actor. In fact, sort of a "pro",

    June 13, 2007

    9/11 Disinformation and Misinformation: Definitions and Examples




    9/11 Disinformation and Misinformation: Definitions and Examples

    By Arabesque[1]



    In this day and age, we all have to become experts on disinformation.[2]
    Jim Fetzer, Disinformation: The Use of False Information



    “One of the telling signs of many disinformation artists (who may or may not be gainfully employed by some ‘shadowy government agency’) is that a lot of their claims are simply too strong to be true…

    I am not suggesting that any of them works for the NSA, the CIA, or the FBI. That creates an exaggerated version of the situation as I see it that makes it easy to satirize. I have no idea why they are doing what they are doing. But there are ample grounds based upon past experience to believe they are abusing logic and language to mislead and deceive others about the state of research...

    On the basis of my experience with them, I believe this is deliberate. Their function appears to me to be obfuscation...

    There is a serious disinformation movement afoot, one that finds the work of those they attack to be too good to ignore. Disinformation… is the major obstacle to the search for truth about the death of JFK.”[3]

    Jim Fetzer, Signs of Disinformation



    How can we discover the truth about 9/11? Is it possible to be led astray by misleading and incomplete interpretations of evidence? What is disinformation and how does it affect 9/11 research? For those interested in the truth about 9/11, evaluating evidence and explanations are essential considerations.

    [...]
    more, much more:
    http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/200...formation.html


    Anthony Lawson did a very effective job calling fetz out as disinfo a couple years ago,

    truthjihad.com blog: Anthony Lawson blasts Jim Fetzer, Veterans ...
    truthjihad.blogspot.com/2011/08/anthony-lawson-blasts-jim-fetzer.html - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    14 Aug 2011 ... Lawson and Fetzer, email friends for a time, had a falling-out over Fetzer's .... doubt that the "truth movement" would be rife with disinformation?

    What Has Happened To Veterans Today? - Rense.com
    www.rense.com/general94/vtrn.htm - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    14 Aug 2011 ... By Anthony Lawson ... few weeks ago when the notorious James Fetzer suddenly appeared out of nowhere, as a contributor, ... with sinister agendas, use it as the thin edge of their disinformation wedge to keep a lot of people ...




    Thread: Lawson Video on Absurdity of "No Planes Hit WTC" Theory
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by PatColo View Post
    Fetzer used to like calling passenger jets "flying beer cans" in his breathless appeals promoting NP@WTC.
    Check out this podcast from last month, Fetzer interviews Sofia Smallstorm.

    Friday, June 14, 2013


    Sandy Hook



    At 1:55:15, Sofia asks,

    "Um, Jim, how do you do that? How do you just roll like that, without even pausing for a breath? I wanna learn!"
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    an NP@WTC keyboard commando finally showed up at John's blog to "engage in tail-chasing battle" re my post there. His 5 posts in an hours time blitzkrieg begins here,

    Anonymous July 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM


    1. AnonymousJuly 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM
      You guys who are "solidly unconvinced" that there were real planes used on 9/11 are the kind of adversaries I enjoy going up against.

      Your position in the face of the massive volumes of evidence disproving the presence of real planes hitting anything says more about your lack of awareness of the state of the art of modern methods of warfare.

      Warfare has evolved away from mass destruction of infrastructure and mass casualty producing actions toward targeting the minds and cognitive processes of the enemy. We have come to realize that if we can control your perceptions - we can control you.

      I am not writing this to enlighten anyone who thinks they are too smart to be deceived because they are a "college degree & engineer certified American". No need to cast pearls before swine.

      People are deceived because they do not systematically consider alternative explanations for the evidence they observe and incorrectly weigh the evidence they do have. These behaviors occur because of memory limitations and related reasoning heuristics that evolved to deal with non-digital reality.

      Consequently people often dismiss important evidence, prematurely prune alternative hypotheses, and jump to conclusions. These cognitive problems make people and organizations easy to deceive.

      Human evidential reasoning is mainly adequate for everyday events. Reasoning heuristics, evolved to be cognitively efficient and effective in the everyday world, often result in biased reasoning grossly over or under estimating probabilities when faced with unusual events such as deception.

      These characteristics of human cognition are what we intentionally exploit.

      Frankly, as someone who has used these techniques in conflict scenarios - I can't help but to laugh at the "doubters". It's always best to go up against an adversary who is overconfident and completely unaware of the types of weapons being deployed against them.

      If I felt like it I could explain step-by-step how media deception is deployed - what the principles are - and how it was used on 9/11. But I won't waste my time attempting to educate those who think they know it all already.

      John is correct. Widespread digital fakery was employed on 9/11. If fact, it is used today very aggressively in "news" programming.

      The enemy correctly views most of you as clueless.
      Reply

    2. AnonymousJuly 25, 2013 at 12:54 AM
      John,

      It's nice to see that your blog attracts hasbarats who post nonsense in lame attempts to protect the Israeli media and their perception management methods.

      They sure don't want to stupid cattle out there understanding that the are being mind controlled by media products.

      These are they same kind of shills that tell people that acknowledging that the holy hoax was a psyop "makes us look like idiots".

      Yes - and now they're saying that exposing the mechanics of deception warfare "makes us look like idiots".

      LOL

      Reply

    3. AnonymousJuly 25, 2013 at 1:16 AM
      I also take my beanie hat off to John for posting comments submitted by 'Anons' which are critical of your beliefs/conclusions! This engenders a lot of trust in your legitimacy/sincerity. I don't think you should waste time thinking critically - think pragmatically guys! Planes hit the buildings. It was real. You saw it. Don't make my eyes gloss over. Think of the sufferhink. We should kill all the arabs for flying those planes into those buildings. Israel needs your help. Donate some money to poor starving Israelis in Israel and to poor starving holocaust survivors. Buy gold and silver when you visit the gold-silver.us link at the top.
      Reply

    4. AnonymousJuly 25, 2013 at 1:24 AM
      Germanic death cults control the banks in collusion with Jesuits. Racists and Nazis control the media. I think racist Nazi Jesuits did 9/11. But what about the extraterrestrial angle? How do you guys know that the 9/11 news broadcasts weren't made with a camera taking a picture of a tv screen? Maybe they faked some fakery and faked that. Think about it. Isn't it making your eyes gloss over. Mine are. I heard that the Saudis control hollywood. They probably do. I think the Saudis made some holograms and used those.
      Reply


    5. AnonymousJuly 25, 2013 at 1:26 AM
      They used holograms. Israel is our only friend in the Middle East. Israel only wants peace. Arabs did 9/11.

    I replied to his #1 above,



    Hello 'Anon',

    In response to this, and to your whole "NP@WTC Army Of One BLITZKRIEG!" below (12:45 AM, 12:54 AM, 1:16 AM, 1:24 AM, 1:26 AM-- productive hour there, Lieutenant! LOL); please feel free to expend your energies into a "dog chasing your tail" infighting ditch until ejaculation.

    Further response at http://tinyurl.com/nxby2wb

    Cheers, -PatColo



    ...where the tinyurl point to this GSUS reply. Now, let's deconstruct his game a bit, shall we?

    In his first & most ambitious post @ 12:45 AM, he aggressively tries to bait me into the very tail-chasing circle-jerk I outlined in my post. Go figure,

    His battle cry is also infused with a healthy strand of joowey "PROJECTION" joojitsu. Namely, his whole post oozes an air of "casting down wisdom from upon his enlightened pedestal", but he tries to obscure that rather conspicuous reality, by preemptively accusing me of thinking I'm "too smart to be deceived", and "overconfident". That must me in response to my saying,


    "(and I say this as a ~10 year Truther who diplomatically "allows for the possibility" that NP@WTC is in fact correct, though I don't presently subscribe to that belief!)"

    and

    "...I remain solidly UNconvinced of NP@WTC... viewing it, regardless of its potential truthfulness, as DEstructive to the forward movement of our movement."


    Other random observations about his 5-post-NP@WTC-clusterbomb:

    - joowishly PROJECTs the 'operative/shill/hasbarat/etc' accusation which obviously describes him
    - joowishly PROJECTs that I'm protecting the holyhoax, and/or the joozmedia (who deceived with CGI planes etc on 911!)
    - joowishly PROJECTs that I really want to kill arabs, and guilt people into sending $ to djooz
    - infers GSUS is a gold/silver seller (WRONG, visitors. No ads, either), IE I have ulterior motives
    - infused with the 'ridicule' disinfo gambit (Rule 5)
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

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    Re: Critical of JFetzer & JFriend's No Planes @ WTC campaign

    John Friend, hoping this finds you: RE:

    Quote Originally Posted by PatColo View Post
    Not 100% aligned with you though, as no thinking person should be with any other, see:

    Re: great truth radio podcast blog - no commercials!

    Originally Posted by PatColo
    that's a brand new talkshoe acct JFriend just opened, then uploaded all his past podcasts. On balance I really like JF (his blog here); some of his original articles are outstanding, and he's got a very polite/amicable personality in his podcasts. Knits to pick about him though: he's a dogmatic believer in "no planes at WTC" (says it was video-fakery/CGI) which I view as an un/counterproductive theory to promote even if it ends up being true which I don't believe it is. And more recently he's been getting more drawn into "Christian Identity" (aka CI, believe "Whites are the true jooz"...).

    I gotta add another 'knit to pick' John; namely your publicly siding with Kike ADLaney in his early February fallout with ZCF. See:

    Thread: Zion Crime Factory Clearing The Air



    Everyone in the Truth community sided with ZCF in that debacle: Spingola, most Mami's readers (see 13 comments). The only ones siding with ADLaney were his fellow prisonyard CI-tards, and disappointingly, you.

    At http://zioncrimefactory.com/jew-world-order, we find today, nearly 6 months after ADLaney stole zioncrimefactory:


    The Jew World Order Unmasked


    by Zander C. Fuerza


    ?!?webmaster?!? with a DONATE! (to website & intellectual property thief Kike ADLaney) button?!?

    You picked the wrong horse in that conflict, John.

    When you judge your CI-mates by the fruits which they bear... by their real-world behavior (the REAL JOOZ? hell they're worse than the fake Khazar ones plaguing us today!), well, I hope you'll come around on that nonsense.


    Semi-separately, but on the subject of infighting among Brand-Name-Truthers; this is a rich thread, might as well link it here:
    Thread: Bollyn on DBS, Hufschmid, Piper, Thorn, CIA
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

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