Canine Question

[midnight rambler]

Thanks. Do you recommend a certain level of training(professionals) or would normal family training be ok for a pet/ protection dog?

Most 'professional' dog trainers don't get hard working dogs, especially hard Dobermanns, so you have to be careful you don't get someone who permanently fouls up your dog. And 'normal family training' (what's that anyway?) won't cut it either. A good breeder will provide you with the necessary info and direction (e.g. socialization, building drive/focus, do's and don'ts, etc.) to train your working dog. It's not at all that difficult, one does not have to be 'an expert', it simply takes time and effort on the front end.

[midnight rambler]

Not everyone should own an attack dog.

Please define 'attack dog'.

We don't sell 'attack dogs'.

dogs that come from top breeders.

What's a 'top breeder'?? Someone who churns out dozens of puppies a year based upon their reputation is a 'top breeder' (numbers-wise)?

Kimbertal is considered by many to be 'one of the top breeders' and yet they produce the absolutely weakest dogs you could find. check out the volume they're capable of -

http://www.kimbertal.com/kennels/visual-tour#

For me, show dogs that are breed to very high standards

Who's standards?? What standards?? AKC standards? Beauty pageant standards?? lol FWIW when I had 'show line' (American) Dobermans I had this drop-dead gorgeous red male that weighed 100#, his name was Baron (named after the Red Baron). Baron was the world's biggest coward. I kept telling Baron I was going to have him stuffed when he was gone - he would have been a much bigger deterrent as a stuffed dog that simply stood there vs. the coward he was. lol AKC show standards have caused the development of structurally unsound GSDs, Dobes, and others in order to accomplish a 'certain look'. This is indisputable.

free of disease and health problems

Health testing is inconsistent and doesn't always give accurate results. Some dogs which test positive for some health defect wind up living very long lives while others which 'pass with flying colors' have been known to drop dead at a relatively young age a week later. What matters is the real world. Do you think they health test sled dogs used in the Iditarod or dogs used for hunting feral hogs? No, those breeders closely observe them and choose the ones they consider the most suitable - this certainly takes into account which ones provide the longest service lives.

show dogs...make better companions...where working dogs tend to just want to work.

This is so wrong I just don't where to start. lol I will say this - I've found that high drive dogs are a trip and an absolute joy to have ('cause they can be such a challenge, but once past that they are the most incredible dogs [due to their drives]).

[NOOB]

Great info everyone. My two terriers are getting old(aint we all) and its time to add another member to the family. I have grown very fond of my jacks and smaller dogs in general but my neighborhood is not getting any safer hence the initial post.
I have a fenced yard in the suburbs and my dogs stay inside. We train are dogs somewhat(come is a must for terriers) but I am not a trainer by a long shot. I am also not looking for a new hobby but could invest some time with a puppy for formal training.


M. Rambler--- Damn. dogs have gotten expensive. Probably the time tested you get what you pay for thing.

[midnight rambler]

I am also not looking for a new hobby but could invest some time with a puppy for formal training.

Training a good working lines puppy can take as little as 10-20 minutes a day (if it's an indoor dog which spends all available time with you at home). There's also the 'training' that's ongoing 24/7 (not as concentrated, happens moment by moment as necessary). And don't kid yourself - if you want a genuine working dog, even as an adult you need to spend at least 10 minutes (like two five minute sessions) a day keeping their obedience maintained. And it's also a good idea to walk with the dog at least 30-45 minutes a day (walking is good for you anyway, think of it as contributing to your own health maintenance).

I crate train mine from the youngest possible age and their crate is a safe/quiet spot for them, as well as keeping them from getting into trouble when my back is turned.

Damn. dogs have gotten expensive. Probably the time tested you get what you pay for thing.

Not necessarily true. I can point out to you 'top breeders' (lol) who hype their show line stuff selling at $3k to $4k for a show line (IMPORTED!!!) Doberman puppy, and none of their dogs will bite the bad guy, they're absolutely worthless as protection dogs. Oh, but their dogs do so well in the show ring (all show and no go).

[NOOB]

we also crate train our dogs

[General of Darkness]

Joel sold his puppies for $1,500 a piece and both the mother and father have probably 7 Schutzhund 3's a piece. So you should be able to get an excellent dog for $1,500. Remember this is a 10 YEAR INVESTMENT, so purchase wisely.

[NOOB]

I guess it boils down to I want a dog that will sit, stay, come and be a part of the family but one that will be protective of my family should the need arise. I know most people think their dogs will automatically do that (be protective) but I dont think that is the case.

[NOOB]

Joel sold his puppies for $1,500 a piece and both the mother and father have probably 7 Schutzhund 3's a piece. So you should be able to get an excellent dog for $1,500. Remember this is a 10 YEAR INVESTMENT, so purchase wisely.

I will get by one of the clubs you listed earlier sometime in the next few weeks on a training day and check it out. I am not in a big hurry and try to do my research before purchasing anything. A animal is a lifelong thing to me.

$1500 is doable, much more than that and he better be able to cook and clean.

[Libertytree]

I think ya might want to check into a black or chocolate Lab, they're large, loyal as hell, fierce and great house dogs.

If you were further north and had more room I'd recommend a Newfoundland, that's the best breed I've had the pleasure of owning and training.

[milehi]

Maybe a mutt is all you need. The absolute best all around dog I've had was a Rhodesian Ridgeback/GSD mix that I got from some hillbilly in Oregon's Coast Range. He could mountain bike 40 miles in a day, let the kids ride on his back, and he bit people when they deserved it.