Wrong, I've purchased many items using cryptos. Guess how much capital gains tax I paid? ZERO. I never converted to fiat, and stayed within Crypto. The IRS rules are very clear on this point. If you "cash out" you owe a capital gains. As more businesses convert to using cryptos you do not have to "cash out" and are able to use cryptos as their intended design, as money.Originally Posted by Jewboo
"Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
"The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
"Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
"Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."
http://blog.independent.org/wp-conte...ML-230x153.jpg
No "if" about it. WHEN you cash out.
I'm the infamous Fred of GIM - Jewboo kindly turned over his account to me.
IF you cash out. If I purchase anything I'll find a retailer that accepts Bitcoin as payment and will use them to avoid cashing out.
https://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/16-6277/index.html
You can also do a round about way of spending Bitcoin on Amazon. Venezuela uses it to get around their countries atrocious capital controls. egifter.com which will accept up to $2000 USD worth of Bitcoin to generate an Amazon gift card which will buy you virtually anything you'd like.
So no, there is no "WHEN" I cash out there is an "IF" I cash out as there is absolutely no need to.
Last edited by Ares; 1st December 2017 at 08:41 PM.
"Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
"The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
"Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
"Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."
Which is .gov speak for money laundering. The problem with bitcoin, is that it's value is denominated in dollars (or other gov currency), not in the bitcoin itself. Would you buy a pizza with one bitcoin? No, because the value is over $10,000 for a bitcoin, and a pizza delivered is $20. The value is in dollars, in that case. Same point if you actually traded 20 bitcoins for a house. That house is valued at $200,000 and you have to pay taxes on that amount.
You might sneak around the taxman for small purchases, but anything in real value you will have to pay taxes in dollars, not bitcoins.
life is good.
Furthermore, for bitcoin to be truly money, people would have to sell things n bitcoin while refusing dollars, or yen, or any other currency. You'd have to be completely stupid to do that though. Say I list a house for 20 bitcoins. Bitcoins are so volatile, that the very next day that house could be only worth 10 bitcoins....or maybe 50 bitcoins if the value tanks. The only thing that gives bitcoins value is exchanging them for currency, which is what is actually used as money. Money needs to be a fairly stable store of value and determining value, bitcoins are not.
That's why this thread is about profit taking....you only take profits when you cash OUT of bitcoin (and get slammed with taxes as Jewboo pointed out).
life is good.
You people are asking a lot of a currency that is only 8 years old.
There are places that you can buy products / services in Bitcoin directly. But most do convert them to USD or Euro.
Everything you listed could be said about Gold and Silver. One is controlled and shorted to near worthlessness while being used for thousands of years as a medium of exchange. The other is only 8 years old, and decentralized.
"Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
"The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
"Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
"Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."
Wrong, gold and silver have been used for thousands of years as a currency because it's value is stable, and there's no inflation or deflation. The amount of gold/silver increases roughly at the same rate as population growth, through mining. The money supply grows with the population. Bitcoin is the opposite. It's shrinking while the population (ie demand) is growing.
Bitcoin is the biggest deflation bubble ever created, having gone up from pennies on the dollar to $10,000 in only 8 years. A great investment? Yes, for the smart folks who CASHED OUT their profits. A currency, heck no.
life is good.
Wrong, I guess you don't remember reading what the Comstock lode did to the price of silver?
How many times have crypto guys here argued with you guys pointing out the utility of crytpo currencies only to watch you guys piss and moan non-stop about it not being gold and silver?
Money evolves over time, and Bitcoin isn't the only game in town anymore. This is the free market looking for alternatives to being regulated, constrained and oppressed to the point of being near useless to exchange value.
Don't like it? I honestly don't care, it's not up to me. Me and others have just pointed out the usefulness of it.
As far as increase in price, when you have 70 trillion dollars sloshing around and even a tiny bit of that goes into a market of a finite supply of any item you can damn well expect a price increase. The only reason you're seeing it rise is because the big controllers haven't been able to figure out a way to hide the inflation of the major currencies like they have with gold and silver.
And don't feed me a line of pure bullshit about crytpo currencies being controlled, every aspect of a coin is open sourced and reviewable, and requires VOLUNTARY compliance to participate.
Last edited by Ares; 2nd December 2017 at 02:48 PM.
"Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
"The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
"Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
"Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."
Ares, this is a gold and silver forum. Of course folks are going to gripe and complain about bitcoin. I'm proud of you guys who were able to make big profits on bitcoin, but bitcoin is not the solution for honest money. It's an investment to gamble on and hopefully take profits.
As far as being controlled, I bet .gov and the cia has recruited the smartest tech geeks out there to try and find some flaw in bitcoin. If people lose faith in bitcoin, it will crash overnight. Plus, what if a pissed off government printed a bunch of money, bought a huge stake in bitcoin then dumped millions of bitcoins on the market....a classic pump and dump.
Bitcoin is a fashion, not a currency. There's no limit to the number of crypto currencies that could actually be created. The most "popular" one seems to win out. The only reason bitcoin has so much value is because it's popular, but that could change overnight.
life is good.
And that's where the gripe comes into play. It's more than money. It's a solution that has existed since the concentration of wealth into hands who are hell bent on having you live under their rules. That includes gold supposedly locked away in Fort Knox, but most likely in the basement of a Federal Reserve Bank in New York. You do not know how much gold they hold, they do not allow audits. The entire system even if we went back to a gold / silver standard is setup to rob from YOU. Your wealth, and your labor which you use to put food on your table. Crypto currencies are honest in a way that mankind has not had in centuries. Every single coin can be accounted for, can you say that about Gold, Silver, or hell even the USD? That removes the barrier of corruption, I'm not saying it's not possible, but it certainly makes it harder.
They'll create a short dip, but buyers will buy as the price goes down. With only 21 million ever to be mined and last estimates show that 2.78 million coins are gone forever (people lost the private keys, died, forgot about them etc.) You can only dump so many. You can view market volume all over the world to see that. As far as being able to find a flaw Bitcoin and Crypto currencies in general are not like normal exploitable software as software can be exploited, PROTOCOLS cannot. Protocols in computer language is certain procedures have to be followed in order to accomplish a task. Think of Crypto currencies like the TCP/IP protocol which has been around since the dawn of the information age as a means of transporting data from point A to point B. It is susceptible to certain exploits (IP spoofing), but even the spoof follows the specific protocol standards or it will not work. Same with Bitcoin, that's the nature of how it was built. You have every single Node on the network (not just miners) validating the transactions. Once the miners validate a transaction and broadcast it to the network its up to the nodes to write it to the blockchain. It has to follow that procedure, if for any reason a transaction will show up as invalid it does not get written into the blockchain and is discarded as invalid. There isn't a way to exploit that procedure. The only known way would be the 51% network attack, meaning an adversary would have to accomplish 51% of the network hashrate to insert fraudulent transactions, but current hashrate is about 8,457,005,236 GH/s, so good luck to anyone trying to overcome 51% of that..As far as being controlled, I bet .gov and the cia has recruited the smartest tech geeks out there to try and find some flaw in bitcoin. If people lose faith in bitcoin, it will crash overnight. Plus, what if a pissed off government printed a bunch of money, bought a huge stake in bitcoin then dumped millions of bitcoins on the market....a classic pump and dump.
Wrong, it was the first and if you follow technology it has market advantage. There are issues with Bitcoin, namely scalability it takes far to long to confirm a transaction. It usually averages a backlog of 20,000 to 100,000 unconfirmed transactions just waiting to be confirmed into the blockchain. So used as an everyday currency you're absolutely right it is not suitable, BUT there are others who have implemented segwit with lightening network (Litecoin) who can complete a transaction in seconds similar to a credit card. Would that not make it a currency?Bitcoin is a fashion, not a currency. There's no limit to the number of crypto currencies that could actually be created. The most "popular" one seems to win out. The only reason bitcoin has so much value is because it's popular, but that could change overnight.
Some of you fail to understand that a currency is whatever 2 people agree to use when a buyer and a seller decide to exchange value. With the internet age it was bound to happen to have a currency come along that could be used to send value electronically to anyone around the planet.
Bitcoins value is that it was first, it paved the way. It's not fashionable, if it was there sure as hell would not be satellite uplinks to broadcast the blockchain to any node wanting to listen for it who does not have internet access.
https://media.coindesk.com/uploads/2...rage_Areas.jpg
All of this infrastructure being built has value. If it increases to the price of 100k to 1 million USD a coin like so many are saying it has the potential too, then I could see it being used for large international settlements. Its far cheaper to use Bitcoin to exchange value between major players without an international bank taking a percentage of a billion dollar settlement contract paying 100k in transaction fee's and taking close to a week vs Bitcoin which would cost you 1 USD to send 1 billion USD in value across the globe in 10 minutes to an hour.
The Free market is all about efficiency. If Bitcoin dies tomorrow another will rise to take its place. Blockchain technology is not going away. Research a coin, find something you like and ride it up in value and purchase gold and silver to bring the banksters to heel. Crypto currencies are a tool when used correctly and wisely they are empowering.
"Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
"The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
"Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
"Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."
Hitch (2nd December 2017)
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