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Thread: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

  1. #21
    Dangerous Donald Neuro's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnQPublic View Post
    The conclusion:
    "This is the first directdetection of gravitational waves and the first observation ofa binary black hole merger."

    Both of these assumptions are based on the assumption of each others existence, and on theoretical assumptions on their properties. From a scientific point of view it is incredibly weak evidence. It is like measuring vibrations in Loch Ness and assume a particular vibration could only be from Nessie burping. Thereby proving that Nessie exists and burps, and that the vibration measuring device is a valid method to measure it, without ascertaining with any complementary method, photographic evidence for instance...

  2. #22
    Unobtanium
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    I'm sensing some doubt in this thread.
    Great minds discuss Ideas, Average minds discuss Events, Small minds discuss People. E.R.

    Anytime I'm in doubt I go outside and give it a little shake.
    Liberty Tree.


  3. #23
    Chatmaster Flash vacuum's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuro View Post
    The conclusion:
    "This is the first directdetection of gravitational waves and the first observation ofa binary black hole merger."

    Both of these assumptions are based on the assumption of each others existence, and on theoretical assumptions on their properties. From a scientific point of view it is incredibly weak evidence. It is like measuring vibrations in Loch Ness and assume a particular vibration could only be from Nessie burping. Thereby proving that Nessie exists and burps, and that the vibration measuring device is a valid method to measure it, without ascertaining with any complementary method, photographic evidence for instance...
    There are two LIGO sites, one in Washington and one in Louisiana. It takes light 10 ms to travel between the two sites.

    The entire basis for their claim of detecting gravitational waves is if they see the same signal at both sites occur less than 10 ms apart. A volcanic eruption in Washington, for example, would not show up at the Louisiana site until long after 10 ms had elapsed.

    A lightning strike in Colorado however, could potentially show up at both sites within 10 ms. To defeat that, they constantly filter through the data looking for "signatures" of what they would predict two orbiting massive bodies would look like. Which is what happened here, both sites detected the waveform they would expect to see if two black holes were spiraling into each other.

    I agree it's somewhat indirect and a little weak, but it's definitely something interesting that happened. But I agree that until they routinely see these signatures from similar sites all over the world and get a lot more data, it is hard to claim they really know for sure what they saw.

  4. #24
    Dangerous Donald Neuro's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by vacuum View Post
    There are two LIGO sites, one in Washington and one in Louisiana. It takes light 10 ms to travel between the two sites.

    The entire basis for their claim of detecting gravitational waves is if they see the same signal at both sites occur less than 10 ms apart. A volcanic eruption in Washington, for example, would not show up at the Louisiana site until long after 10 ms had elapsed.

    A lightning strike in Colorado however, could potentially show up at both sites within 10 ms. To defeat that, they constantly filter through the data looking for "signatures" of what they would predict two orbiting massive bodies would look like. Which is what happened here, both sites detected the waveform they would expect to see if two black holes were spiraling into each other.

    I agree it's somewhat indirect and a little weak, but it's definitely something interesting that happened. But I agree that until they routinely see these signatures from similar sites all over the world and get a lot more data, it is hard to claim they really know for sure what they saw.
    Maybe earth had an expansion contraction vibration? They have a theoretical model re how a melting of two black holes would look like, but so far geologists can't predict when an earthquake of magnitude will strike, and these patterns of the melting together of two black holes follow the theoretical model perfectly...

    You really can't validate a method for measuring gravitational waves at the same time as you validate a theory of how supposed black holes come together. You can't validate two unknowns at the same time...

    Wouldn't the moon circling the earth create a slow gravitational wave, that these machines should be able to measure?

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    Great Value Carrots Santa's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by aeondaze View Post
    We'll all just have to wait and see what comes of this, might end up being a false positive or even just a dead end, either way its all just a bit of fun at this stage, but it sure as heck is funny watching a bunch of "arm chair astronomers" getting all indignant and asserting they know more than the experts, lol

    No one is saying they know more than "the experts"... What they're saying is, based on historical precedent that "the experts" are too often happy to lie their fucking asses off for the sake of government grants and corporate funding.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, but doubt those who say they found it."

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    Iridium
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa View Post
    No one is saying they know more than "the experts"... What they're saying is, based on historical precedent that "the experts" are too often happy to lie their fucking asses off for the sake of government grants and corporate funding.
    Well there you go...someone here is actually paying attention!!! Between this thread and the one about the Moon being a hologram I'm really beginning to wonder about the collective intelligence of the human race...and I'm not even considering the flat earthers

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    Unobtanium EE_'s Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa View Post
    No one is saying they know more than "the experts"... What they're saying is, based on historical precedent that "the experts" are too often happy to lie their fucking asses off for the sake of government grants and corporate funding.
    Agreed, the only reason scientists keep finding things light years away in the universe is to keep their funding coming in and their pay checks still being cashed.
    None of this means a hill of beans to us peon's here on earth. If they don't find things, they'll make them up. Meanwhile, our country and our infrastructure is crumbling.

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  10. #28
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by vacuum View Post
    There are two LIGO sites, one in Washington and one in Louisiana. It takes light 10 ms to travel between the two sites.

    The entire basis for their claim of detecting gravitational waves is if they see the same signal at both sites occur less than 10 ms apart. A volcanic eruption in Washington, for example, would not show up at the Louisiana site until long after 10 ms had elapsed.

    A lightning strike in Colorado however, could potentially show up at both sites within 10 ms. To defeat that, they constantly filter through the data looking for "signatures" of what they would predict two orbiting massive bodies would look like. Which is what happened here, both sites detected the waveform they would expect to see if two black holes were spiraling into each other.

    I agree it's somewhat indirect and a little weak, but it's definitely something interesting that happened. But I agree that until they routinely see these signatures from similar sites all over the world and get a lot more data, it is hard to claim they really know for sure what they saw.
    I agree they probably measured something, and possibly of interest, unless someone took advantage of the instrument sitting unattended and operating and injected a false code. The fact is it is a sophisticated instrument. Each interferometer have all kinds of sensors to monitor for seismic activity, magnetic shifts, etc., so if something physical happened at one site, they would know. The fact it was detected at both sites does give it some credibility.

    This is basically a sophisticated modern Michelson-Morley type interferometer, except it is under high vacuum, and not pointed due N-W, plus uses lasers and a lot longer light path.

  11. #29
    Iridium
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    affirmative action hire was watching screen when blip happened

    pure genius, move over peanut butter guy

    http://theadvocate.com/news/14908976...aves-discovery

    William Parker was nearly seven hours into a routine shift in the Livingston control room when he thought he saw a flash on a screen.

    Parker, a 41-year-old Southern University graduate with a bachelor’s degree in mathematics and master’s in physics, was hired in 2014 as an operator with the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory.

    As Parker was completing his master’s degree in late 2014, he heard about the operator position in Livingston. It was an opportunity he could not pass up.

    “When I got the email about the opening, I was like, ‘Duh! Of course I want this,’ ” he recalled. “I guess you could say that’s when I went from watching SciFi to doing SciFi.”

    Parker’s job is to monitor LIGO’s highly sensitive instruments for any changes that might indicate a distortion in the laser beams running down two perpendicular, 2.5-mile tubes.

    That distortion, if there was one, might be one of the ripples in space-time that Albert Einstein predicted in 1916 and that LIGO scientists had been seeking for decades. It might be the world’s first detection of gravitational waves.

    Parker said he never dreamed that he would be among the team of scientists who first recorded gravitational waves. The New Orleans native had always been interested in science, but struggled academically when he first attempted to get a higher education at Delgado Community College.

    “I wasn’t quite prepared for the next level at that point, and I didn’t fare too well,” Parker said. “But as I matured, I tried again and started at Southern University in New Orleans under the direction of Dr. Joe Omojola. He gave me a second chance to get in school.”

    That second chance came through the Louis Stokes Louisiana Alliance for Minority Participation, a statewide program funded through the National Science Foundation and designed to increase minority studies in science, technology, engineering and mathematics programs at both the undergraduate and graduate levels.

    Parker participated in the program at SUNO and, after Hurricane Katrina, at Southern University in Baton Rouge.

    Southern has been an active member in LIGO in the area of optical materials since 1999, according to a news release following last week’s announcement of the gravitational waves detection. The university’s work focuses on minimizing noise in LIGO test mass mirrors in order to help maximize the sensitivity of the LIGO interferometers, the instruments that detect the waves.

    Southern’s work with LIGO, and in particular its participation in the LIGO Science Education Center, first connected Parker to the LIGO project. He served as a docent, or guide, at the center for several years beginning in 2007.

    “I was already interested in science, ever since I was a kid,” Parker said, noting that Neil deGrasse Tyson had been a favorite of his because of the way the astrophysicist made scientific study easy to understand. “Becoming a docent gave me an interest in education too.”

  12. #30
    Dangerous Donald Neuro's Avatar
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    Re: Big day in science today - gravitational waves are discovered

    Parker, a 41-year-old Southern University graduate with a bachelor’s degree in mathematics and master’s in physics, was hired in 2014 as an operator with the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory.

    As Parker was completing his master’s degree in late 2014, he heard about the operator position in Livingston. It was an opportunity he could not pass up.

    “When I got the email about the opening, I was like, ‘Duh! Of course I want this,’ ” he recalled. “I guess you could say that’s when I went from watching SciFi to doing SciFi.”
    Hahahah... Let's do Science and Sheeit!

    Nigger watched black hoes merging and detected a ripple in space-time continuum...

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