Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

  1. #1
    Electrum
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    105
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 50 Times in 29 Posts

    Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    Hi guys, I am trying to educate myself about bitcoins, watched about a dozen of videos or so - mostly advertising kind of videos, praising videos, people are so excited and up-bid, and enthusiastic and so on.

    Yet, some features of bitcoins don't appear to be very appealing to me.
    Maybe because I am new.
    Perhaps some of you can dispel some of my "concerns", and here they are:

    1. Bitcoin reliance on word-wide-web.
    Imagine (hypothetically) if the global network is cut in half.
    The two parts will continue working separately, adding blocks to their own version of the chain.
    Once the connection is reestablished in between the two and two versions are reconciled, then only one of the versions of the chain will survive.
    All accumulated transactions of the chain that lost will be canceled out.
    You think that will never happen? Why then the recommended wait time for large transactions is at least one hour ( or six blocks ) for the sync to propagate over the entire world?
    So, if Internet is censored and divided into country-zones what will happen to wallets and to ability to transact?
    Even more - what if networks start filtering out bitcoin peer-to-peer traffic?

    2. Claimed Inflation immunity. Is it really-really immune?
    These days new bitcoins come into existence from mining.
    The bitcoin inflation is limited by the fact that the mining rewards are cut in half every four years.
    Sounds like a promise.
    So, how this promise is different from promises of central banks or governments of the world?
    What guarantees there are that this rule/principle will never be broken in the future?
    Compare that to PMs.
    The difficulty of finding and then mining the PMs out of the ground provides a rock-solid protection from inflation.

    3. Maintaining the global bitcoin system is not free
    The system needs a world-wide network of millions of computers, constantly solving complex mathematical puzzles in order to produce new blocks to chug alone.
    Neither electrical energy no computers are cheap.
    Compare that to a brick of silver doubling as a door stop. Does it need electrical power to support its existence?

    4. Bitcoin system depends on complex glitch-free software
    Which means that there could come a day when a software glitch or a malicious attack corrupts the entire distributed ledger, destroying all wallets, transaction history and the entire system
    Compare that to a brick of silver. Will it get corrupted? Will it dissolve into thin air?

    5. Bitcoin system is also called crypto-currency, owing to the fact that it is totally dependent on encryption. The encryption may be unbreakable today, but will it be unbreakable tomorrow? Future advances in technology and in mathematics may open up wholes in the encryption, similar to what happened to “unbreakable” German ENIGMA system, which would spell a doomsday for all crypto-currencies. One of such advances, such as quantum computing is already on the horizon and is already coming very close to cracking the kind of encryptions that is behind the bitcoins. Who knows, maybe such machines already exist even today, hiding in a basement of some shady government agency.

    6. This is more philosophical, perhaps no need to answer this - bitcoin is yet another system both made and maintained by humans.
    Therefore it got to be as imperfect and as corruptible as humans who made it are.
    Compare that to PMs were made by God and ordained by Him to be money.

    These kinds of questions are not addressed in any youtube videos I watched.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jcismylord For This Useful Post:

    Dachsie (23rd July 2017),TroyOz (23rd July 2017),woodman (22nd July 2017)

  3. #2
    Iridium Dachsie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,982
    Thanks
    1,301
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,857 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    The original post was excellent.

    I have listened to many YT videos touting cryto currencies over the last year or so. I try to just pick up facts and gather my questions just from deducting reasoning.

    I think one needs physical portable "money" in one's possession. One also needs honest reliable family members to know of money storage places. I am OK with paper currency if the U S government will make redemption of gold and or silver very easy should one want to redeem the paper currency. I am also, I think, comfortable with the kind of dollars created by the U S Presidents who were all assassinated.

    I listen to a YouTube channel called Jsnip4.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxavMVdUk1w

    He works as a computer programmer in Florida. He bought a few BitCoins early on as well as a few other cryto currencies. I doubt if his initial investment amounts for more than a few hundred dollars. But recently he has been trying to buy a home and he is coming out of the foreclosure on his credit record so he has been renting a nice house for what I think was very reasonable rent. But he hates being uner homeowners association rules HOA and he seems to be very irritated by what he calls "riff Raff" neighbors and "Jabonies."

    He must spend at least an hour a day just managing his crytos. He recently skimmed off some of his profits to his savings account at his bank and it was in the amount of $95,000 and he still has invested all of his original investment plus much more in profits that he is just leaving in crytos for now. So this large balance in the bank made him able to qualify for a nice large house with a pool for his family of four.

    He got news that he could close and move in early this weekend so he moved in to his house over the last two days.

    He is a person who seems to have invested little and profited much and harvested his profits to the fullest advantage.\

    I personally think he should have tried to purchase a modest house on a large tract of land and waiting until he could find it and pay cash for it and not have to get under the weight of a big mortgage again, but he was set on that special house and would not seem to listen to reason and seemed to be really irritated by the neighbor's kids etc.

    Snip4 is constantly sort of promoting how wonderful crytos are and how they have worked out so great for him. It sure looks that way on the surface but I just think there are many ifs, ands, and buts.

    If you only risk on your intitial investment what you can easily afford to lose, and you read up on all the ins and outs of doing it wisely, and have about one or two hours a day to manage your accounts for maximum profits and you skim off to your bank accounts and ultimately to your possession, it could be a profitable hobby. For people who do not know what they are doing they will not be able to get the profits at the right time into their own possession and those people will be just be getting caught on one fee or time trap after another.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Dachsie For This Useful Post:

    PatColo (23rd July 2017)

  5. #3
    Unobtanium PatColo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    15,624
    Thanks
    3,935
    Thanked 6,607 Times in 4,200 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    I see vlogger Victurus Libertas put this vid up today; haven't watched yet, but his stuff is usu worthwhile.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wKu-T6uDP3s/h...WHdcPFn2kqmQgA 40:39
    A Lesson In Cryptocurrencies, Steemit and more!

    • 107 views
    • 1 hour ago
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

    "If telling the truth marginalizes you, then that is the place to be. After all, if enough people are willing to be marginalized, then before you know it, society has developed a different center. This is the politics of truth." -- E. Martin Schotz

  6. #4
    Silver Spun Gold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In the tropical mountainous jungle
    Posts
    63
    Thanks
    892
    Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    Hi jcismylord

    From what I understand, the bitcoin networks runs as a wholly global unit
    sot that the network cant be cut in half.

    If there is a catastrophe someplace on earth, the places that are still
    functioning will have the bitcoin network up and running.

    The accumulated transactions are recorded on the blockchain and
    can never be canceled out.

    governments or corporations or controllers may try to shut down the internet, but there is
    a secondary dark web that can not be shut down.

    Inflation won't happen with bitcoin, but in a way, it may happen with all the other
    cryptos being created. Bitcoin is losing investment due to the other coins and tokens and platforms.

    The most advanced tech that could make bitcoin obsolete is here. https://iota.org/
    it has a Tangle, not a blockchain, and is free. NO FEES.
    I'm investing a little in it.

    The advantage of crypto over PMs is that they are easier to transport over borders
    and better for micropayments.

    If there is way more gold in the world then we are told, then there is no protection from
    gold's deflation. It is so heavily manipulated, hard to know.

    Cryptos are not as easily manipulated by the overlords. At least not yet. There are too many
    of them, and many are decentralized.

    The quantum computers on the horizon may be able to attack crypto,
    but the developers are aware of this and working on solutions.

    I see cryptos as currency and gold and silver as commodities.

    hope this helps somewhat...
    Come chat with me here. Private, no surveillance. Besides, it's fun. https://focusgames.io/r/ck5lc3dxVGVIRjErVWk2VW9HZm1sUT09

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Spun Gold For This Useful Post:

    Ares (26th July 2017),midnight rambler (24th July 2017)

  8. #5
    Iridium Dachsie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,982
    Thanks
    1,301
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,857 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    Regarding the security of Veritaseum, it appears that it can be "hacked." Not sure about veracity of this report.

    I could not get audio with this video...




    VERI HACKED! $8M STOLEN!�� NOW CATCH THEM! Cryptocurrency News Veritaseum Analysis Reggie Middleton
    Brandon Kelly CryptoTrader
    Brandon Kelly CryptoTrader
    7.9K
    587 views
    Streamed live 54 minutes ago

    Have you asked: How to Buy Bitcoin, Earn Free Bitcoin, How to use Bitcoin, How Bitcoin Works, What is Bitcoin, How to Earn free Bitcoin ?? If so then you found the right channel. We are a global community and you are welcome to join! The crypto world is full of 2017 new tech capabilities and amazing hacks, a few of them include Bitcoin, Ripple, Litecoin, Ethereum Classic, NEM, Dash, IOTA, ZCash, Bytecoin, Waves, Steem, Golem, Siacoin, Stellar, Antshares, NEO, XEM, NEM, - amongst others!

    It is my goal and my vision to make bitcoin trading easy and understandable for everyone, and to bring people together from all over the world so that one learns from another, and one helps the other succeed. Welcome to the community - and Enjoy.

  9. #6
    Unobtanium PatColo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    15,624
    Thanks
    3,935
    Thanked 6,607 Times in 4,200 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    I since watched the viddy below, very worthwhile. The first ~20m is bitcoin&Co; latter half is Steemit. Guest is another "self taught programmer" who woke up around 2011 & bought some bc (I think he said price was around $20), and I thought this may be the Jsnip4 guy in Dachsie's reply #2, but it's a different guy. The "hacking" question came up; guest said the main risk is "user error" where the user's private key is compromised, and he suggested one solution is entering your $ transfer arrangements on an offline comp/device, then sending when it's back online.

    The steemit half was also interesting, it's apparently also "block chain" based somehow; but I think you'd need to be a steemit user to really "get it", with the steemit dollars thing & the 'bots' function & all. Seems it's kind of a twitter-YT-FB-reddit replacement, in that they also host vids, but where users are incentivized with $ for good content, or, likes/shares... I may need to listen again! In fact I will look further into it, coz the guest mentioned steemit's public (though I didn't find a ticker symbol from a quick search, maybe it's under a mother-corp's name?) and he believes has a big future, winky wink.

    Steemit Quick Start Guide
    Steemit FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by PatColo View Post
    I see vlogger Victurus Libertas put this vid up today; haven't watched yet, but his stuff is usu worthwhile.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wKu-T6uDP3s/h...WHdcPFn2kqmQgA 40:39
    A Lesson In Cryptocurrencies, Steemit and more!


    • 107 views
    • 1 hour ago
    FAKE "ELECTIONS" - Why Ron Paul Can't "Win"

    "If telling the truth marginalizes you, then that is the place to be. After all, if enough people are willing to be marginalized, then before you know it, society has developed a different center. This is the politics of truth." -- E. Martin Schotz

  10. #7
    Iridium Dachsie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,982
    Thanks
    1,301
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,857 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    I wonder if Steemit dollars can be converted to U.S. dollars. I am always thinking 'Show me the money." Plato o plomo!

    Another "pitfall" that I perceive, from a far distance in never having participated, is that when there was recent big downturn in BitCoin value, it was important to have your cryto "money" parked in the right place where it was safe and could not be hurt by what was going on. If you are not careful to always have your money parked in a totally safe place, you can lose your money.

    Another pitfall seems to be that you have to know what entities to start the process to a trade. Once you enter into the process of a trade, there's no backing out or is very hard to back out. If you deal with the wrong entity all sorts of bad things can happen including having your trade consummate and end up in low value to you.

    ______________

    Again, I would comment that you do not risk an amount of your money that you cannot afford to lose and you do it as an enjoyable hobby and are careful to skim off your profits over and above your initial investment, then it can also be a profitable hobby.

    ___________

    I remember how tens of thousands of people saved their money for retirement in 401K financial instruments and ended up losing all their savings.
    The way the things were set up is that they would give you a choice of like 30 different funds to which you could allocate portions of your savings.
    Now those choices of funds were rigged from the beginning but the poor workers are ignorant of what is a good fund and what is mediocre at best and which is absolute garbage. None of the choices fed to the workers were good, many were mediocre, and most were rotten to the core. This was how the banksters transferred the retirment savings of many people to their coffers.

    It seems there is something similar going on in the crypto craze. There are more and more currencies coming into existence. Many do not know how to judge whether one is good. One way I've been given to understand is that if there will only ever be a top limit on the number of coins ever to be issued and sold. There are other criteria for judging and some of those can change from day to day. Bad actors and bad players will catch on to this fast moving train so the risks of choosing a bad currency only increase with time.

    Sometimes, especially in online world, people negatively criticize something because they are jealous of how some people are really making a lot of money and are getting ahead and becoming "free." Some of these people can cause a lot of trouble.

    The whole premise being conveyed about crytos is that it is a wide open safe secure way to get ahead and get ahead bigtime and there is room for everyone. So come on in, the waters fine. That is the same kind of propaganda that goes with ponzi schemes of all kinds.

    I believe if there is a way for those who rule the world to take control of cryptos and grab all the profits and ruin the most number of people involved, they will do that.

    But we humans get greedy and we lose sight of how the ways we choose to spend our time, perhaps more and more and more of our time, can consume our soul and destroy our peace and balance in life.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Dachsie For This Useful Post:

    PatColo (24th July 2017)

  12. #8
    Electrum
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    105
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 50 Times in 29 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Gold View Post
    Hi jcismylord

    From what I understand, the bitcoin networks runs as a wholly global unit
    sot that the network cant be cut in half.

    If there is a catastrophe someplace on earth, the places that are still
    functioning will have the bitcoin network up and running.

    The accumulated transactions are recorded on the blockchain and
    can never be canceled out.
    You don't seem to understand the fundamentals.
    You just repeated the piece of common propaganda that is exactly the point of my contention.
    Look, there are many slightly different versions ( or local copies) of the ledger distributed over the network.
    Every 10 seconds the bitcoin network gets together and basically VOTE on which version is the "official".
    The official version is determined by the 51% vote of all the participating computers.
    All unofficial versions are then discarded as computers update their local copies.
    Next, if the network is fractured, then each part will continue on, and will have their own "official" ledger.
    When connection is restored, then the official ledger must be chosen, meaning that there will be a vote among computers, and only one of two ledgers will be voted as official, which means that all transactions of the ledger that lost will not be there to be found in the official ledger. They will disappear.
    Exactly because of that, the bitcoin official videos recommend, even now, even today, TO WAIT at least six blocks for the big transactions to settle, to make sure that the transaction you've made was not cancel out, because the longer you wait, the more settle your transaction is, as the potability of you being on a isolated cyber-island gets smaller and smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Gold View Post
    Inflation won't happen with bitcoin, but in a way, it may happen with all the other
    cryptos being created. Bitcoin is losing investment due to the other coins and tokens and platforms.
    I just showed you why and how the inflation can happen.
    Care to rebuttal my argument instead of just repeating the propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Gold View Post
    The quantum computers on the horizon may be able to attack crypto,
    but the developers are aware of this and working on solutions.
    Look, I have been a professional programmer for about 45 years.
    It looks to me that you blindly believe that "the glorious developers" are all but shiny angels with wings.
    That "they" , the developers are honest, and trustworthy and reliable out-of-this-world beings, and they will solve all the mathematically unsolvable problems.

    The truth is that guys like us are NOT really that honest and not really that trustworthy. We are just like as all other people are, and look, when it comes to bitcoins - you are completely DEPENDENT on the software to make your little transactions or to even see what is in your account.
    You are at mercy.

    Even more - it looks like because the technology is so very complex and technical and beyond the usual area of expertize of most people, the thoughts, believes and perceptions are not own-derived, but just IMPLANTED via blind belief and bind trust towards the perceived "experts".
    The same "experts" that often hold stake and are far from being impartial.

    The truth is that the software that you use to access bitcoins can be taken control over and/or influenced and altered in so many ways and what are you going to do when it happens?

    Compare that to a brick of silver. There is nothing complex about it. Everybody can understand it. You are not at mercy on some anonymous guy's software to access it or move it around from a place to place.

  13. #9
    .999 Unobtanium Horn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Out
    Posts
    25,647
    Thanks
    1,552
    Thanked 2,868 Times in 2,349 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    Yes, Bitcoin aint as attractive as Dogecoin, and No we cant dispell any Holy Originator myths.

    Choose your own Gods.

    Thankyou.

  14. #10
    Iridium Dachsie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,982
    Thanks
    1,301
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,857 Posts

    Re: Some questions/thoughts about bitcoins

    As far as what could happen to BitCoin, this was pretty good...




    Bitcon is digital FIAT currency backed by nothing
    TheHealthRanger
    TheHealthRanger
    156K
    189 views
    Published on Jul 24, 2017

    As the Health Ranger explains, Bitcoin is "digital fiat currency" backed by nothing. Isn't it interesting that so many people pushing Bitcoin are critics of the U.S. dollar being a "fiat currency" yet don't realize Bitcoin is DIGITAL fiat currency?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •