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Thread: Bitcoin $4000+

  1. #11
    Bitcoin Miner Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by madfranks View Post
    Do you know how hard it will be to hold on anywhere above $100k? At that point we're talking life changing money for anyone with a single BTC. It will take balls of steel to HODL ON after that.
    Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

    Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm
    "Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
    "The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
    "Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
    "Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."

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  3. #12
    Administrator JohnQPublic's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

    Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm
    Sounds like the gold chatter around 2008.
    "What Difference, at this time, does it make?"

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    "Because you'd be in jail"

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    Bitcoin Miner Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnQPublic View Post
    Sounds like the gold chatter around 2008.
    I think 2008/2009 is what spurred Bitcoin into existence. The flat out manipulation where they would dump trillions on the open market and Gold would only go up a few FRN's because of Naked Shorts on the CME. It was ridiculous.

    Here is the RAW Hex version of the Bitcoin Genesis block:

    00000000 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
    00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
    00000020 00 00 00 00 3B A3 ED FD 7A 7B 12 B2 7A C7 2C 3E ....;z{.z,>
    00000030 67 76 8F 61 7F C8 1B C3 88 8A 51 32 3A 9F B8 AA gv.a..ˆŠQ2:Ÿ
    00000040 4B 1E 5E 4A 29 AB 5F 49 FF FF 00 1D 1D AC 2B 7C K.^J)_I...+|
    00000050 01 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
    00000060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
    00000070 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 4D 04 FF FF 00 1D ......M...
    00000080 01 04 45 54 68 65 20 54 69 6D 65 73 20 30 33 2F ..EThe Times 03/
    00000090 4A 61 6E 2F 32 30 30 39 20 43 68 61 6E 63 65 6C Jan/2009 Chancel
    000000A0 6C 6F 72 20 6F 6E 20 62 72 69 6E 6B 20 6F 66 20 lor on brink of
    000000B0 73 65 63 6F 6E 64 20 62 61 69 6C 6F 75 74 20 66 second bailout f
    000000C0 6F 72 20 62 61 6E 6B 73 FF FF FF FF 01 00 F2 05 or banks...
    000000D0 2A 01 00 00 00 43 41 04 67 8A FD B0 FE 55 48 27 *....CA.gŠUH'
    000000E0 19 67 F1 A6 71 30 B7 10 5C D6 A8 28 E0 39 09 A6 .gq0.\֨(9.
    000000F0 79 62 E0 EA 1F 61 DE B6 49 F6 BC 3F 4C EF 38 C4 yb.a޶I?L8
    00000100 F3 55 04 E5 1E C1 12 DE 5C 38 4D F7 BA 0B 8D 57 U...\8M..W
    00000110 8A 4C 70 2B 6B F1 1D 5F AC 00 00 00 00 ŠLp+k._....

    Which references this news article:

    https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/1/...00thetimes.png

    I think its interesting that by their actions of suppressing gold/silver that they created a monster that they are going to have a difficult time dealing with.
    "Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
    "The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
    "Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
    "Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."

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  7. #14
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

    Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm
    I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?
    "Liberty is so creative, and the government is so stupid, that Im very optimistic about the future"
    - Lew Rockwell

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    Bitcoin Miner Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by madfranks View Post
    I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?
    Ahh, but someone has already determined that roughly 2 -3 million coins are gone forever. 1 million alone are Satoshi's and haven't moved since the day they were mined. I think it was Charles Hughes "of two minds" who said either he's dead or he has the austerity of a saint.

    So subtract 2 million and there are only 14.75 million available. Then bring it down further that roughly only 1-2 million are actively being traded. The rest are being "hodled" So that's a lot of money chasing so few assets.
    "Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
    "The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
    "Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
    "Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."

  9. #16
    Moderator madfranks's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Ahh, but someone has already determined that roughly 2 -3 million coins are gone forever. 1 million alone are Satoshi's and haven't moved since the day they were mined. I think it was Charles Hughes "of two minds" who said either he's dead or he has the austerity of a saint.

    So subtract 2 million and there are only 14.75 million available. Then bring it down further that roughly only 1-2 million are actively being traded. The rest are being "hodled" So that's a lot of money chasing so few assets.
    Good points, but think about this. 1-2 million BTC may be all that is actively traded right now, but as the BTC price hits $20k, $50k, $100k, etc. there will be plenty of folks who sell to take profit, increasing the supply being traded in the market. If 5 million BTC are available to trade in the market, that's still a market cap of 5 trillion. That's a market value higher than many governments of the world.
    "Liberty is so creative, and the government is so stupid, that Im very optimistic about the future"
    - Lew Rockwell

  10. #17
    Bitcoin Miner Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by madfranks View Post
    Good points, but think about this. 1-2 million BTC may be all that is actively traded right now, but as the BTC price hits $20k, $50k, $100k, etc. there will be plenty of folks who sell to take profit, increasing the supply being traded in the market. If 5 million BTC are available to trade in the market, that's still a market cap of 5 trillion. That's a market value higher than many governments of the world.
    Agreed, it's definitely interesting to watch. I think it was Isaac Newton who said "I can calculate the movement of stars, but not the madness of men."

    Lets see how far this madness gets us. I only spent what I could afford so if it goes to zero tomorrow I'm now out anything as I made my ROI when I cashed in my Litecoin.
    "Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
    "The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
    "Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
    "Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."

  11. #18
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by madfranks View Post
    I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?
    yes, theoretically it is possible:

    suppose all BTC owners just sit on their hands for a little while, while one guy sells his 0.000001 BTC for $1 - yes, then you will see the BTC cost at $1 million, and a mirage capitalization of 17 Trillions.

    Amazing how much just one dollar could do, isnt it?

    Food for thought.

    PS. I wonder whether the left hand selling BTCs to the right hand allows setting the price ( price manipulation), since the fees are none

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    Bitcoin Miner Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by jcismylord View Post
    yes, theoretically it is possible:

    suppose all BTC owners just sit on their hands for a little while, while one guy sells his 0.000001 BTC for $1 - yes, then you will see the BTC cost at $1 million, and a mirage capitalization of 17 Trillions.

    Amazing how much just one dollar could do, isnt it?

    Food for thought.

    PS. I wonder whether the left hand selling BTCs to the right hand allows setting the price ( price manipulation), since the fees are none
    Every exchange has a fee, but its usually a percentage of the buy/sell order. That was a thought an article had I read was brought up earlier. Basically saying if the CME / CBOE think that they can manipulate the price of Bitcoin when they only operate between 9am and 4pm then they are going to get slaughtered with their short positions with an asset that trades every second of 24 by 7.
    "Paper is poverty, it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788
    "The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them." - Twisted Titan
    "Some Libertarians are born, the government makes the rest."
    "Voting is nothing more than a slaves suggestion box, voting on a new master every few years does not make you free."

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    Re: Bitcoin $4000+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Every exchange has a fee, but its usually a percentage of the buy/sell order. That was a thought an article had I read was brought up earlier. Basically saying if the CME / CBOE think that they can manipulate the price of Bitcoin when they only operate between 9am and 4pm then they are going to get slaughtered with their short positions with an asset that trades every second of 24 by 7.
    the fees are small

    so, if not fees and taxes, what otherwise prevents "selling" large sums of BTCs to a bunch of your own "sockpuppet" wallets with the goal of manipulating the price?

    I am not pretending to be an expert. Just asking.

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