ok thanks. I use a enviro detergent. I'll stop using it on the bottles. Trying to remember what I did with the 1st batch of bottles. They were new in box. I may have just rinsed them then sanitized and used. I don't recall. 2nd batch were all washed in deterg. I've been thinking on the bottle washer. I've got a small submersible pump sitting in the shed. I looked for some crates yesterday at the recycle place but they were too beat up. I had some but I chucked them.