If I refuse the Flu Vaccine my medical practice will be terminated.

[mamboni]

Is that what it was about? Or was it a moral choice where they are forcing you to put something in your body against your will by threatening your livelihood?

I'm not judging you, I'm not in your shoes, but where is the line drawn? Once something is done it is never undone.


You say losing a few days work will translate to a few grand, when is the last time you had the flu? I have had a handful of tylenol my entire life so certainly no flu shot, and I very rarely get sick at all.

What if your childs school wanted them to get some STD vaccine, the risk/reward was equal to what you have read the flu vaccine is. If your child didn't get the vaccine they would be expelled. What would you do?

What if your wife was forced by her employer to get the same flu shot, and put under the same thing you are now. What would you do?

It was a moral and an economic dilemma. At heart, I am a pragmatist. I will not risk my livelihood and family's security for a flu, though I find it morally wrong to force anyone to take a vaccine without his consent. The dilemma is muddied when one considers the role of physicians and nurses as caregivers and their responsibility to take reasonable precautions to prevent the spread of disease to their patients. At the present time, the consensus is that it is reasonable to compell doctors and nurses to accept the flu vaccine. We can argue whether this is right or wrong forever, because public health policy decisions are all about compromises and balancing pros and cons. It is rarely clear cut and noncontroversial.

To put this whole matter in some context vis-a-vis me personally and professionally, when I was a resident in training I had to perform academic autopsies. An academic autopsy, in terms of dissection, microscopic examination and diagnosis is 10-20 times the work of a forensic autopsy. The idea is that you learn as much as possible from every case. A typical case might have 5 or more major diagnoses and numerous minor findings. The point is, when I was in training the HIV epidemic (then called AIDs) hit with a vengeance. I personally performed about 20 AIDS autopsies knowing full well that if I cut myself while working I had an excellent chance of contracting what was then a 100% fatal disease with a variable incubation period and no reliable tests for the infection. You could contract HIV, be fine for a couple of years and then start coming down with all types of bizarre infections that only severely immunosuppressed people got. Then you knew you had about 6 months to live, back then. I had to take the risk as it was part of my training. The risk I took then was easily 10,000 times greater than a flu vaccine. In my line of work I am exposed to all manner of hazards. I work with tuberculosis cases with some regularity and the risk of infection is huge. As a premed trainee, I was accidently exposed to X-rays during crystallography experiments - they told me that my safety badge was overexposed. I've worked with dangerous radioisotopes, the worst being P32 and I131. I worked with retroviruses and cDNA transfectional agents. I've worked with Ultracentrifuges and let me tell you, if you don't balance them perfectly, they can literally explode. So acceptable risks are part and parcel of my work.

But yeah, I was quite pissed off about being forced into taking the flu shot. But I've had to deal with a lot worse shit during my career. I could write a book. But trust me, I am not unusual.

[Golden]

Bellyaching? Is is bellyaching to question an order, investigate the pros and cons, and discover that the consequences of acquiescences are acceptable vis-a-vis risks versus benefits. According to you, I should throw my entire medical career and livelihood away and refuse to take the flu shot, even though my review of the peer-reviewed medical literature does not disclose any compelling reason not to? Unlike you, I do not have luxury of simply saying no without severe and longstanding negative consequences. I would hardly call my conduct bellyaching. It's actually called riak-benefit analysis. And in the real world, it's usually the only tool one has to make a lesser-of-two-evils choice.

I don't believe you.
You're nobody's tool.
Reply via ether.

[skid]

If my employer forced me to choose between taking a vaccine or lose my job I wouldn't hesitate to tell them to shove it. I too have a good job, financial security as a result of a regular paycheck, etc. that I would lose. I can put up with a fair amount of bs at work, but sticking needles filled with potential poisons in myself isn't an option.

Surely your current job isn't that critical to you? Couldn't you find another position or do something else with your training, education, and experience? Obviously the choice is yours, but you will have given up your freedom and become a slave if you take the vaccine against your will. I've often joked that if I get fired I will sell everything and farm coffee in Costa Rica or similar. Don't you have unfulfilled dreams that your job is preventing? At your age money is probably secondary, and could easily be replaced elsewhere given your credentials.

My wife was a community health nurse that gave flu and other vaccines years ago. She was head of the nursing code team in case of overt reactions to the shots. Our kids are not vaccinated. She cannot work in her field now for the same reasons as you as she would refuse the mandatory health care worker flu vaccination.

[Golden]

Lindsey Williams - Doctors Quitting Over ObamaCare

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgTOc0ysaGo

meh

[mamboni]

In my realm, doctors aren't quitting over Obamacare because no one knows how things will change. Everyone is taking a wait and see attitude. I'll watch the Pastor later and give some feedback.

[VirgilCain]

Mamboni, Would relocating to another state help?

[Twisted Titan]

Tag.....i need to say something but i will adress it later

[mamboni]

Mamboni, Would relocating to another state help?

No - Obamacare is federal law. But some states might refuse to participate.

[willie pete]

I haven't taken a flu shot in many many years, the last time was in adolescence and it made me sick, (diaphoretic, febrile and N&V), I haven't taken one since, I'm wondering if maybe you report a Hx of an adverse reaction they may give you a pass? I've been "obliged" in the past to take the HBV vaccine series.....I took 'em to protect my employment

[mamboni]

I've been sick with a lingering head cold for 2 months now. It started a few days after I received the flu vaccination. Coincidence or causality? Who the hell knows? All I know is that I have never been this sickly in my entire life and I am sick and fucking tired of a stuffy runny fucking nose and feeling fucking tired all the fucking time. Did I mention that I am pissed off too.