Bartering And Horse Trading (Part Duh)

[Spectrism]

Keep up the bragging.... I mean good posts. I love reading about the deals. I agree- Ag... sometimes you have to fight to keep the smile off your face when dealing with sellers. There have been times where I had to fight from rolling into a full-blown guffaw laughter. Wearing old beat up clothes also makes you look regular and not a good candidate to fight over price.

We have not gotten into yard sale season yet in CT.... but I am ready to hit the road looking. Another month or so for the snow and cool weather to clear.

Alternate sources of electric power is my hot target now. Looking for anything that may come in handy. A full solar system the way I would like it is still a bit outside my price range. I may have to figure a way to do it incrementally.

BTW- any electric motors you see are loaded with copper. Even if you cannot use the motor, think of the copper weight. I have been figuring $3/pound for copper as a break even and if I can get it 50% or cheaper, that is a good deal.

In this strange year ahead, may God bless you all in your journeys and good hunting!

[govcheetos]

Went to about 10 sales today, but didn't come home with much. Did buy a set of magnetic tow lights for when you're towing a vehicle for 10 bucks. They were new in the box and the original price was $29.95 + tax.

http://image.usedvictoria.com/photos...178726_614.jpg

Ran into a friend who asked if $30 was a good price for silver dollars. Told him he could do better.

Traded a 48 inch Craftsman riding mower with a 18 hp briggs commercial v-twin engine for two Stihl chainsaws. One is a 250 and the other is a 024 wood boss. One of them is missing the carb, can't remember which. I didn't need the riding mower and don't really need the chainsaws, but they take up less space and I feel are easier to sell/trade down the road.

The 14 ft trailer I mentioned earlier I'm letting a friend borrow to help move. This is the 3rd person I've helped with it. Saves them the money from having to rent a Uhaul, and I dont have to help them with one of my trucks! Even let them borrow a hand truck i got at a sale for 10 bucks. The first guy I let borrow it put new wheel bearings and buddy bearings in it for me letting him borrow it. That saved me the money for the parts plus I didn't have to get all greasy changing out the bearings!

Hope ya'll find some deals out there!

[woodman]

You know, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. My barn fills up with stuff that I bring home, from jobs, the side of the road, yard sales, etc. I have to clean it out occasionally of the stuff that really isn't that usefull to me. The hell of it is, I usually end up needing the stuff I get rid of. I will put stuff out by the road if I feel it is not worth the effort of selling it.

I set a wood furnace that I didn't want any more, out by the road and was planning on selling it. Well, some locals came by that same night before I had the chance to put a for sale sign on it and it disappeared. My mistake. Funny story: A friend of mine tells me he knows how to get rid of old tires without any effort. He puts them out by the main road and puts a for sale sign on them and they always end up dissapearing over night.

I have a huge steel vice, a large shop model that is so heavy I could hardly carry it. $5 at a yard sale. Scrap value would be higher by far. I tear out gym floors and save the wood and usually can get some money for it and maybe a price for installing it into the bargain. Sometimes I cut the maple out in large sections, about 4' x 8' and if it is a floating floor it has 1" of plywood beneath the maple. So it is 1 3/4" thick. This stuff makes the most awesome shop work tables. Very solid. I am very much into wood stoves and have purchased many at yard sales and second hand through the paper over the years. You can still pick up these models called Volcanos sometimes. They were made in Michigan and are fantastic woodstoves. I heated my home with a Volcano for many years. $100

Old windows and doors can be found all the time for free. They make excellent shed parts. The stuff that gets thrown out in this country must amaze people who come here from India or Pakistan. Just the wood laying around for the taking must be something they are not used to. This is a rich country still. I've seen articles and pictures of how it is in India, women gathering sticks all day on a mountain side and strapping them to their backs just so they can have a cook fire. Must suck. We are lucky to live in this land of plenty, even though the bankers have us all enslaved.

I wish I was good at barter. I have never practiced it and don't know how usefull it would be to me. It seems like you need a lot of luck to find the right person with the right item at the right time. I would particularly like to barter my wood flooring or carpenter skills to get my home insulated and the electric service updated.

[zap]

I am wanting to down size, because I am getting older... I need to be able to drive my tractor around to keep the brush / weeds down, when I get a list I am going to put it up here first , so much crap....I really just want to have the Mexicans load it up and take it to the dump, a tractor, a log splitter , various tools. Just stuff !!!!

But see I don't want anyone up here so I have to haul it out.

[govcheetos]

I am wanting to down size, because I am getting older... I need to be able to drive my tractor around to keep the brush / weeds down, when I get a list I am going to put it up here first , so much crap....I really just want to have the Mexicans load it up and take it to the dump, a tractor, a log splitter , various tools. Just stuff !!!!

But see I don't want anyone up here so I have to haul it out.

Zap you really should post up what you have here for people who would appreciate some of the stuff you probably have. I have a high reverence for stuff like tools that usually never go bad if cared for properly. Anything you would be willing to sell would benefit you with additional funds for an unused/unwanted item plus save the purchaser from buying something more expensive that is probably made from chinese parts these days. I think about when I get older I'm gonna give certain things to close family and friends ahead of time to ease the burden on my wife, plus to make sure it goes to someone I want it to without them having to deal with all the crap that goes with dividing up an estate.

[agnut]

Hi Spectrism, good idea on the electric motors/copper. I thought about either melting down the copper in a commercial crucible and pouring off the copper as long as the steel parts have a higher melting temperature. Another idea would be an unwinding machine to unwind the copper wiring. But what do I know; I’m just a picker. There should be some way to make a fortune there. Also there are starters, generators and alternators from old cars; not to mention all the copper wiring in wrecks.

Saturday before last I went to a moving sale that I had been anticipating from the ad in the local newspaper. It started at 9:00 but I was there at 8:25 and the first to arrive. The next door neighbor was there with his wife just socializing. I sized them up and saw that they didn’t have much interest in the items. He did buy a pick for $8, the newer type with the yellow fiberglass handle; I had paid $2 for an identical pick and have 4 of them at home. So no great loss.

What I was specifically looking for was the surround sound amplifier he had advertised. Turns out it was a Yamaha model HTR 5460 surround sound 5 channel receiver. That’s all the ad said; nothing about the speakers or if there were any for sale at all. Turned out that the 5 speakers were all Cerwin Vega brand; a LS 6C, two LS 5, and two LS 12. I got them home and looked them up on eBay The speakers were offered used for $690 plus some shipping.

The Yamaha receiver I couldn’t find a used price but new it is anywhere from $675 to $850. Also came with Monster wiring for everything.

Not too shabby for a total price of $125. If I had to buy it on eBay, the price would have been about $1,000 with shipping. I have been wanting a surround sound system for the big screen in the den and here it practically fell into my lap.

Also got a new car cover for $3.

As I left I had to turn around and went up a side street where there was a gooseneck flatbed trailer loaded with used bricks. My sister had been looking for them for a patio she wanted to build. I told her about them and she went over and checked them out. She may not do anything but this was on her wish list. Later I was at the thrift store where I drop off fruits and vegetables and they had just gotten in a nice queen box spring and mattress set. My sister also had this on her wish list so I called her and she hustled down there and got them for $25. My point is that I am not just buying for myself but also am being eyes and ears for family and friends. This can be a tremendous advantage in relationships. It can be like being Santa Clause sometimes.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[agnut]

Hi govcheetos. Prices are going up at the various sales. But not all of them. I guess the motivation of the seller as well as their lack of knowledge are wild cards. In other words, ya never know.

Your trade for the 2 Stihl chain saws sounds like you made out. I have 3 Stihl chain saws, a Stihl hedge trimmer and a commercial Stihl weed trimmer. The best as far as I am concerned. I might suggest that you talk to your local Stihl dealer about the price for a new carburetor and if it is upgraded from the original one. My weed trimmer wouldn’t stay running so I rebuilt the carb and it wasn‘t much better. A friend who ran the local Stihl dealership got a new carb for me which was the upgraded type and it has worked perfectly since.

My trailer is out on loan to my nephew right now. So I know what you are talking about. Lots of furniture to move PLUS three cement deer, two of which weigh about 400 pounds apiece ! I’m hoping to not get too involved with their moving. My back will pay deerly.

Last week I got a Dyson Ball vacuum cleaner; I have wanted one because I have heard of its superior performance and I have never seen one and was curious about how it was constructed. Just the frustrated mechanical engineer tendency in me. I got it for $45. I knew that it was expensive new but $500 with tax ? Sometimes even a cursory knowledge can yield a good score. I didn’t know much about the Dyson Ball but was a winner anyway. Part gut instinct too. I couldn’t wait to get it home and try it out. I cleaned it up and proceeded to vacuum the carpets which had been serviced by a newer Hoover vacuum. The Dyson Ball practically sucked the padding from beneath the carpet!

Although today is Saturday I’m not going out garage sailing. Why ? First, there is nothing advertised and second because I was at two estate sales yesterday. The first was the largest I have ever attended. I know the lady who was presiding over the sale and have been to a couple of her previous estate sales. The first one I filled a truck and trailer load twice with bargains. Remember the 160 towels and washcloths I got for a total of $5 a couple of years ago ? Yep, that was her sale. It helps to remember past deals and where and from whom you got them. By the way, the sale started at 9:00 but I arrived at 7:30. I was there to help while looking over the items. I was asked to drive this riding mower around to the front of the house. As I did, the huge crowd of buyers parted like Moses and the Red sea. HaHa I knew many of them and they looked surprised to see me helping out.

My overview here was to see what would happen if I showed up very early and helped. It was just for an experiment. This technique may help sometimes. I could have bought many things but only hand picked out a few. A Super Scrabble game, a couple of sets of Dominoes and some cooking gear. I did pick up a Milwaukee cut saw in the metal case. As I was carrying it around, a man said that that was what he was looking for. I said, “You want it ?” and passed it to him. I already have two cut saws. Perhaps a mistake because I could have sold it for a healthy profit later but sometimes it pays to be generous and the look of surprise on his face was payment enough.

Now the second estate sale wasn’t the madhouse like the first. I picked up a Dremel drill set for $15, lots and lots of Tupperware for 50 cents to a dollar, a set of German steel drill bits for $3, four baking pans for a quarter apiece, a box of used and new drill bits for a dollar, two sawhorse sets for $4, a large pipe wrench and crescent wrench for $2 each (both American made; important ), a car battery cart for $3 and a couple of heavy duty extension cords for a dollar each. Not a big haul but some things I can use as well as sell or trade in the future.

And while I am on the subject of the future, I would like to share with you that I have been buying items in my area for several years and have noticed that the prices of things I had bought long ago are increasing lately. Ponce and I talked about this just this morning. It is important that we all realize that “the future ain’t what it used to be” , as Yogi Berra was known to have said. The future that Ponce predicts is going to be like what happened in Cuba; everything will be needed and valuable. Good as gold.

With that said, I further expect items of quality we acquire now will be powerful trading material in the future. Gold and silver bullion have their place as foundational wealth. However, a wide variety of items will also greatly increase their own value and utility in the future.

For example, yesterday I got a call from a man who delivers 4 gallon plastic and 5 gallon metal containers with lids that were used for bulk food basics from a bakery. I pay him 50 cents each. He delivered 65 plastic and 15 metal ones. I stacked them in shelves high in my barn. I have hundreds now and have a standing order with him for more. Now he gets them for free. So why don’t I just cut him out of the picture and get them myself ? In the first place, he passes by the bakery in his travels. This bakery is 25 miles away and I would have to drive there myself and spend the time, fuel and wear and tear on my truck. He delivers these containers and unloads them. Most important, it is out of respect for this nice man that I want to continue dealing with him. He found the deal in the first place and offered it to me. It is bad business to not share with others; everybody involved needs to get a share of the benefits. I know that he has recently bought a house and is not making a lot of money so I look out for him. If a deal that comes my way that I think he can benefit from I will tell him of it. Not all deals involve dollars; some involve banking on good relationships.

I just got a call from the thrift store and they said that they had just gotten in two large chest freezers, one for $25 and another for $15. I called where the container guy worked but he was off so I told another guy there of the good deal and he said that he would call a friend who needed a freezer. Sometimes we will never know how these things turn out but must be content with having done our part.

There are givers, sharers and takers in this world. Know who you are dealing with as well as yourself.

Long ago I learned that the more I give away, the more that comes back to me.

So what am I doing in acquiring all of these plastic and metal containers ? If it takes a cup of petroleum to make just one flimsy plastic grocery bag, how much petroleum does it take to make one of my 4 gallon plastic containers with lids ? I have checked on the plastic containers new price and they cost about $7 with lids.

And the metal containers ? Rat proof food containers as well as anything that you don’t want rats chewing on. They will chew on anything except steel; perhaps its to sharpen their teeth. Or perhaps they see how we are running this world and they are nervous wrecks.

Supposing the dollar takes a 50% haircut (or is that scalping); what would be the new price for these plastic containers ? Since they are made from petroleum, the new price may double. And having bought them for 50 cents each begins to look a bit more appetizing.

Other items for future trading materials may include nails, pipe fittings, lumber, clothing and many other items needed in the future which may become too high priced or even unavailable.

Warren Buffett once said “It is only when the tide goes out that you discover who is not wearing swimsuits“.

We all need to ask ourselves if we will be adequately covered when the tide goes out. Will gold and silver be enough without trading material ? This is why I am diversified.

Oh, here is something that I have been thinking about for a long time. Socks, lots of socks. New ones, of course. In the past I have bought socks at Wal-Mart for less than a dollar per pair. They are imported of course (we don’t make much here any more but babies and bullets and I’m not sure for how long the latter). Socks are the one thing that wear out on a regular basis. Good for trading material, in my opinion. You never see used socks at a garage or estate sale do you ? And who would want them anyway ? At least buy enough socks for yourself for as long as you expect to need socks. Because we don’t know how long until the much anticipated collapse occurs. Or how many years it may last.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[agnut]

Hi woodman. Sounds like you are doing some great deals already.

I don’t understand your saying “I wish I was good at barter. I have never practiced it and don't know how useful it would be to me. It seems like you need a lot of luck to find the right person with the right item at the right time. I would particularly like to barter my wood flooring or carpenter skills to get my home insulated and the electric service updated. “

In my way of understanding, bartering can be either trading one item for another or it could be trading an item for dollars and then trading those dollars for something you want. The former type occurs much less often than the latter. Why ? Because the dollar is being used as the intermediary between what you have and what you want and therefore requires little time or negotiating skills. However, when (not if) the dollar goes bye-bye, the old time direct bartering will take center stage if there is not a reliable replacement for the dollar. Why are the central banks buying up all the gold they can ? Because they know that the replacement currency must be backed with something of enduring recognizable intrinsic value in order to be considered a reliable replacement. And gold, silver and copper have fulfilled that task for thousands of years. Without individual physical ownership of gold, we will be vulnerable to yet another currency collapse because the so called new paper gold certificate would have no real intrinsic value. Only physical gold or silver in the hands of the people is money; all other is illusion. [ rant off ]

In current parlance you are bartering and have been bartering with dollars as the intermediary. It is the hope that mankind would return to honest money that motivates many, many financial writers. And looking at the overview of what China and Russia are doing with regard to their gold buying, we may see the return of honest money in our lifetimes. But just a hope that I don’t expect to come true. Mankind has too many dishonest and greedy individuals in financial power to let that happen without a fight to the death, aka war.

So real bartering, or trading for another item, will remain a small part of our dealings. I suppose that if we were transported back to the 1700s or 1800s we would be doing much more of this type of bartering. In the last depression I read many times of people trading their skills or items directly for another (a goat for 12 chickens or a chair for two hours of labor). Life moved much slower in those days; needs were met on a glacial pace in comparison to the instant gratification pace of what we do today. Along the way we lost something of our humanity in interpersonal dealings.

My advice would be to seek a bartering group and offer your services. I don’t know myself but this may be your cup of tea.

Have you considered taking old hardwoods from furniture and flooring and doors and running them through a plane in order to expose the new surfaces ? Perhaps you could sell it to hobbyists and cabinetmakers. I have a wood plane I bought a couple of years ago for that express purpose. It has always seemed like a good possibility to try. I know that good aged hardwoods are getting more expensive and furniture made from reclaimed (recycled) old wood may be a new specialty for the future.

Best wishes and I hope this helps,

Agnut

The filthiest four letter word in the English language is debt.

[woodman]

Hi Agnut. Yes, I should have specified that I am a no good with direct barter, having never practiced such. Trading labor/skills I think would be fairly straight forward. As far as older wood items go, it is hard to find wood of the quality that our ancestors had to work with. I was able to purchase some large timbers from a local fellow for $10 apiece. They are from a centuries old pickle or wine vat, not sure which anymore, and are about 6" x16", some about 14' long. Cypress. The annullar rings are amazing because they are so close together. In some spots so close that they are hard to count with the naked eye, even on a polished piece. I am ashamed to say that I used one as a ridge board on an addition to my home. The wood is too fine for such a purpose and pine would have served. I was impoverished (both time and money) at the time though. The guy who sold them to me had used many as deck boards on a back deck he built.

I found a huge burl on an oak tree and cut it out. It is almost too heavy to lift. I've been thinking about taking it to a craft/art festival downstate and seeing if one of the artisans would be interested. I am too busy to use it. Plus no shop as yet. I work out of my old hay barn and that is getting to be a drag.

I really like the saying you have "The filthiest four letter word in the English language is debt." I will add it to my quotes file. Is it from you?

[agnut]

Hi woodman. You are way ahead of me in knowing the various types of hardwoods. If I had your knowledge I would begin to check out the market potential for this “recycled lumber”. You never know what you may discover if you look deeper. In the next town there is a specialist who restores a certain type of Italian coffee roaster. He makes a good living and seems to have plenty of cash to buy any deals he finds. You got me thinking about fixing up my wood plane but I am so busy that I may not get to it for a long time.

Yes, that quote is mine. I made it up to convey the extreme disgust I have for debt as well as the extreme dangers of debt. And look at where the world is now with the end game of too much debt to continue paying even the interest on the said debt; this end game results in another ugly word, “austerity”, which may sound rather innocent but the implementation of austerity means societal misery spanning decades.

Debt is a hole dug of future earnings which become almost impossible to refill throughout the same future‘s progress through time. It is like digging one’s own financial grave. Debt is giving to lenders ones future freedom. Debt is a lifestyle without style.

Penny pinching, frugal, cheap, tightwad and other words whose negative connotations have misdirected most of the populace.

There is a time for everyone to sit down and think of what they are doing with their finances and dreams. And that time has always been yesterday. For what we realize and redirect now will have great implications for the future that lies ahead. Robert Frost wrote a poem that has always stuck with me :

The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear,
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I marked the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.


Why pay interest ? Why ? Is it an out of control ego that drives one ? Is it envy for others who appear to have things we want now but do not have the savings to buy cash on the barrel head ? Or is it rationalization that everyone else is also borrowing and it must be the way to go ? If everybody was jumping in the fire why don’t you ?

Has fluoride in the drinking water dulled everyone’s senses ? Have we become a people like in the movie “Idiocracy” ? No, not necessarily; personal financial management comes from what we have learned from our parents and peer group. My parents were frugal and bought everything with cash except their houses. And why did they have to borrow in order to buy a house ? Because the system was in place before they were adults. A house cost far beyond what a working man could save in decades. However, in the distant past, it was considered a disgrace to have a mortgage on one’s house. Back then, a working man could clear the land and build his home from surrounding trees. First log cabins and later sawmilled lumber. Later came electricity and all of the so called modern conveniences. See the transition and resulting stranglehold the lenders attained through the decades ? So modernization has its prices to pay. There is no free ride.

Best wishes,

Agnut

My other quotes :

Nature : The first tell a vision

Children were what parents watched before there was television

The unbridled lust for money and power is an as yet unrecognized form of mental illness.