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Thread: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

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    Great Value Carrots iOWNme's Avatar
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    60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona


    http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...udy-in-arizona

    The war on home Bible studies and house churches is heating up again. Down in Phoenix, Arizona a man has been sentenced to 60 days in prison and has been fined $12,180 for hosting a Bible study in his home. Since 2005, Michael Salman and his wife have been hosting gatherings of about 15 or 20 people where they share food, fellowship and discuss the Bible. Unfortunately, that kind of thing is against the law in Phoenix, Arizona apparently. At one point, nearly a dozen armed police officers raided their home and "evidence" of their "crimes" was gathered. Michael Salman was found guilty of 67 "code violations", and now he is going to be ripped away from his family and put in prison for two months. In addition, the assistant city prosecutor is asking the court to "revoke his probation and convert it into a 2 1/2 year jail sentence since he continues to hold worship gatherings on his property despite court orders." This kind of case has the potential to have a huge "chilling effect" on home gatherings of all kinds all over the United States. You may be thinking that you are glad that this man is being put in prison because you aren't a Christian and you don't have any sympathy for Christians.

    Well, what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to discuss the U.S. Constitution?

    Or what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to play cards or watch football?

    The U.S. Constitution guarantees "the right of the people peaceably to assemble", and when the constitutional rights of one person are under attack, it is an attack on all of us.
    In America today, we actually do not own our homes and our properties. Instead, we are only allowed to use them in very, very narrowly-defined ways, and if we "rebel" against those rules the control freaks that run things will smack us hard.

    A while back I wrote about how control freak bureaucrats all over the country are using "code violations" to force preppers back on to the grid. In some cases, they are even using "code violations" to force preppers completely off of their properties.

    They want to run our lives, and if we do not live within the very narrow constraints that they define for us then they will send armed men to raid our homes.

    So how did Michael Salman's problems start?

    You can probably guess.

    His "neighbors" complained about noise and "traffic congestion".
    S
    o that is how city officials got involved. We have become a nation of informers and tattlers, and this is another perfect example of that.

    Michael Salman did have a big cross and a big sign outside his home, and in this situation that was rather foolish. Perhaps if he had kept a lower profile things would have been different. But it still does not excuse what authorities in Phoenix are doing to him.

    People should be able to have small gatherings of friends and family in their own homes. If we can't do that, what do we have left?
    And these days, just about everything is illegal in America, so if you want to sick the authorities on your neighbors it is quite easy to do.
    What is this nation turning into?

    The implications of this story are staggering.

    Over the past couple of decades, the number of "house churches" in the United States has absolutely exploded as an increasing number of Americans reject the big, institutional churches for one reason or another.

    Now we are seeing a backlash against the home church movement.

    Are we going to start to see authorities systematically coming after home Bible studies and house churches all over America?

    Sadly, we have already seen quite a few examples of this. The following is one example from California....

    A Christian couple from Orange County, Calif., were fined earlier this month for holding Bible studies and for what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three people” in their homes. They have now been told they face a $500 fine if they continue to hold their home Bible study gatherings.

    Fortunately, authorities in that case have backed off at least for now after immense public pressure.

    But this is just the beginning. Bible-believing Christians are now considered to be "outside the mainstream" and are being attacked in unprecedented ways.
    For example, the head of Personhood USA (Keith Mason) had his home brutally vandalized after he was featured in a recent Newsweek article. When that article was posted on the website of The Daily Beast, someone left a comment that contained his home address. Unfortunately, some very sick individuals decided to "pay a visit" to the home and hurled a boulder that destroyed the glass in his front door. In addition, they took red spray paint and painted cuss words and red coat hangers on his house and on his sidewalk.

    The following is how this attack was described in a recent Newsweek article....

    Mason says he was awake at the time of the attack. “I was in the basement, catching a movie and having a beer, to just chill,” Mason says. “I heard a loud noise and thought one of our kids had fallen down the stairs." Mason says he ran upstairs from the basement, then "ran through a bunch of glass" and "saw red." He describes the scene as "surreal—I didn’t know if it was blood on the glass or what. It turned out to be spray paint. There was red paint all over the side of our house. They spray-painted coat-hangers all over my sidewalk and door. We called 911. The police were there within three minutes.”

    The family has moved from the home and they say that they have no plans to return.

    This is what America is turning into.

    Hate and anger are rising to unprecedented levels and it seems like psychopaths are running around everywhere.

    I truly fear for the future of this nation.

    Can you believe there was a time when men gave their lives fought and died for the Right to worship as you please. Now we have neighbors that will call the police on you because there were too many cars in the streets, or some noise.

    INCREDIBLE.

    I look around me everyday and i STILL cannot find any Americans i am supposed to fight and die for. Pathetic.
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  3. #2
    Unobtanium palani's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    1) You don't want to be a corporation.
    2) You don't want to live in a corporation (if that is even possible).
    3) You don't want to SUPPORT corporations.
    4) You don't want to fall into dishonor (argument).

    I suspect the religious aspects are incidental. He might have been holding a weekly gathering of friends to watch football and gotten the same result.
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Not a chance Palani. There are groups of people that get together every weekend to watch sports etc, and they never get this treatment.

    This is just another attack on Christianity. This article is actually old, but still should be discussed.
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    Unobtanium palani's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Code enforcers don't specifically attack religion. They enforce rules.

    enforcement officials told him that if he was going to hold worship gatherings on his property, it would be considered an “occupancy”
    In case you don't recognize it this is an offer to contract. The response is critical. How you respond determines whether the legal system is going to detect a "quasi-contract".

    You treat the notice as an offer and either 1) accept 2) reject 3) go silent or 4) counteroffer. (2) and (3) are dishonorable while (1) and (4) are honorable. With (2) and (3) when you head to hearing it is the dishonor that is punished.

    A good counteroffer under (4) would be "Could you show me where I have authorized you to enforce commercial codes on my property?" Had he done this a new offer would have been forthcoming or they would have let him alone. This counteroffer has the effect of cancelling the original offer (just like a new bid at auction cancels the previous bid).

    Maybe the guy didn't know this or maybe he wanted to be able to point to his fine and jail time as the extra measure of devotion to his religion. He didn't have to martyr himself though. It was his choice (ignorance is a choice too).
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by palani View Post
    Code enforcers don't specifically attack religion. They enforce rules.



    In case you don't recognize it this is an offer to contract. The response is critical. How you respond determines whether the legal system is going to detect a "quasi-contract".

    You treat the notice as an offer and either 1) accept 2) reject 3) go silent or 4) counteroffer. (2) and (3) are dishonorable while (1) and (4) are honorable. With (2) and (3) when you head to hearing it is the dishonor that is punished.

    A good counteroffer under (4) would be "Could you show me where I have authorized you to enforce commercial codes on my property?" Had he done this a new offer would have been forthcoming or they would have let him alone. This counteroffer has the effect of cancelling the original offer (just like a new bid at auction cancels the previous bid).

    Maybe the guy didn't know this or maybe he wanted to be able to point to his fine and jail time as the extra measure of devotion to his religion. He didn't have to martyr himself though. It was his choice (ignorance is a choice too).

    And yet, the Police are in Dishonor for swearing an oath and breaking it. I notice you didnt mention that part Palani?
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    LOL Palani. They choose to druge up whatever rules they can, specifically to attack Christianity. Whatever rule they can think of.
    Time is running out, make all the jokes you want, but the future isn't so funny - General of Darkness

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    Unobtanium gunDriller's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    where are the attorneys who could attack the Phoenix Soviet with charges of breaching 3 supposedly key American freedoms ?

    * freedom of speech
    * freedom of assembly
    * freedom of religion
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Awoke View Post
    Not a chance Palani. There are groups of people that get together every weekend to watch sports etc, and they never get this treatment.

    This is just another attack on Christianity. This article is actually old, but still should be discussed.
    Agreed. But palani is correct in that once you consent to their offer, you are screwed because you acknowledged that they have jurisdiction, and once you do that, you are going to be guilty of violating their codes.

    So the lesson is, learn how not to be in their jurisdiction and do not give consent to their offer to contract.

    It is incumbent upon freedom loving individuals to learn how to stay free, because the .gov is not here to protect our freedoms.
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    Unobtanium palani's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Sui Juris View Post
    And yet, the Police are in Dishonor for swearing an oath and breaking it. I notice you didnt mention that part Palani?
    An oath is an offer. It needs to be accepted. Otherwise, as Lysander Spooner points out in Constitution of No Authority (going from memory .. I believe that is correct but you can check it yourself) ... the oath is spoken to the wind.

    Policymen are corporate. They protect and serve CORPORATIONS. They have absolutely no duty to protect YOU and if given a chance will screw you royally every time with or without an oath.
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    Unobtanium palani's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Awoke View Post
    LOL Palani. They choose to druge up whatever rules they can, specifically to attack Christianity. Whatever rule they can think of.
    Not really. They rock and roll to prove their authority. It is up to you to decide whether their authority either applies to you or comes from you.

    Religion isn't even on their horizon (unless you put up a nativity on the front lawn of the courthouse) or spray paint swastikas or burn crosses.
    Make me one with everything.
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