Discussion of daily PM price moves

[Jewboo]

...As for the gold price, I agree with Willie that it is presently meaningless...I am far more worried about surviving into the next epoch and holding on to what I've got...



That's why I now post an ammo photo in these Precious Metal threads.

:)

[Shami-Amourae]

Me too. I recently bought one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjYYrCzmCRA


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjYYrCzmCRA)

I've been interested in the Glock Carbine Conversion Kits. There's a lot of brands and styles for most of the Glock pistol models. Quick example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR-4NMNYP3s

[Jewboo]

Quick example:



I have a Glock G19 and looked at ALL the options. Beretta CX4 Storm was the clear winner. Go look at one (https://plus.google.com/112371527186728395049/about?gl=us&hl=en).

[Shami-Amourae]

I have a Glock G19 and looked at ALL the options. Beretta CX4 Storm was the clear winner. Go look at one (https://plus.google.com/112371527186728395049/about?gl=us&hl=en).

I'll look into it. Thanks.
:)

[Neuro]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the firearms section?

[mamboni]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the firearms section?

Another fine thread derailed by a self-centered person. Let's hope he doesn't succeed in repelling another fine contributor, Sparky, from this forum. This has been a singularly useful thread for a long time.

[Shami-Amourae]

Another fine thread derailed by a self-centered person. Let's hope he doesn't succeed in repelling another fine contributor, Sparky, from this forum. This has been a singularly useful thread for a long time.

I consider ammo a precious metal personally. I've spent more money on ammo than PMs in the past couple years. I'm sorry for the small tangent (I know you're mainly referring to Jewboo.)

I agree with Rawdog in my post #485. I think when the Debt Ceiling is raised Gold/Silver will have another crash. Anything below $20 is an awesome buy for Silver, and I'm saving up for if/when that happens.

I started a Thread to keep ammo discussion on topic:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?73368-Ammo-The-Other-quot-Precious-Metal-quot-Daily-Tracking-Thread

[gunDriller]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the firearms section?

it is kind of going in a different direction.

i was wondering why they don't use tungsten for bullets. you want something REALLY heavy, it's either Tungsten or Gold. (or Depleted Uranium)

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/ferro-tungsten/

looks like $48.50 a Kilogram - about a nickel a gram.

from a solid model i had, .055 cubic inches for .38 Special ... 0.9 cc. (which seems high)

BALLPARK, tungsten & gold have specific gravity of 19-ish.

so a tungsten handgun bullet would contain raw material of about $1 cost.


a little cheaper than Silver (by weight), but IMPOSSIBLE TO COUNTERFEIT (tungsten that is.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


most or all of the KWN & Harvey Organ article excerpts are talking about short term declines in normal PM's, i.e. Gold. they don't mention Silver hardly at all.

GSR was 63 back in August (second-to-last time Au was $1270). then, Ag was $20. now, GSR@59.

i find this curious. has recent management turbuluence @ JPM resulted in "taking the foot off the pedal", Silver price manipulation-wise ?

[Son-of-Liberty]

i find this curious. has recent management turbuluence @ JPM resulted in "taking the foot off the pedal", Silver price manipulation-wise ?[/b]

I think they may be near the mining floor for silver so if they push much further miners shut down and with the demand, silver shortages would cause much higher prices. not sure where this comes into effect for gold.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Gold and silver useless dogs in face of impending crises.

[EE_]

Gold and silver useless dogs in face of impending crises.

What crisis? Wall Street isn't worried in the least.
Warren Buffett, one of wall Street's biggest insiders, was on CNBC talking about political weapons of mass destruction, bla bla bla..
Mean while Buffett is making billion dollar deals left and right...he isn't worried in the least either.

[mamboni]

Strong $35 up move in gold.

Gold Catalyst: Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating (http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#)

We have the downgrade of the US rating where it matters most: by the Buyers of US IOUs. S&P or Moody's will not dare to make the move as DOJ was very fast to remind S&P who is in charge, but Fitch this time was more following the real mess coming out of Washington, DC with its Negative Watch for US rating. Now the desire of China to buy all available physical Gold can be put into perspective of long term state-level planning to diversify its currency reserves out of US Dollar based assets. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#

[Neuro]

Strong $35 up move in gold.

Gold Catalyst: Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating (http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#)

We have the downgrade of the US rating where it matters most: by the Buyers of US IOUs. S&P or Moody's will not dare to make the move as DOJ was very fast to remind S&P who is in charge, but Fitch this time was more following the real mess coming out of Washington, DC with its Negative Watch for US rating. Now the desire of China to buy all available physical Gold can be put into perspective of long term state-level planning to diversify its currency reserves out of US Dollar based assets. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#
Not so strange, yesterday was a devastating defeat for those who wants to at least limit US government spending, somewhat... Federal Reserve has signaled that it has no intention of tapering its current trillion dollar per year monetization, any time soon! Why would anyone buy dollars or UST-bonds in this environment?

[EE_]

Strong $35 up move in gold.

Gold Catalyst: Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating (http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#)

We have the downgrade of the US rating where it matters most: by the Buyers of US IOUs. S&P or Moody's will not dare to make the move as DOJ was very fast to remind S&P who is in charge, but Fitch this time was more following the real mess coming out of Washington, DC with its Negative Watch for US rating. Now the desire of China to buy all available physical Gold can be put into perspective of long term state-level planning to diversify its currency reserves out of US Dollar based assets. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/gold-catalyst-chinese-agency-downgrades.html#

I think when China downgrades US credit worthyness, it's serious.

Now Fitch however...
What are the chances?


Fitch Ratings was founded as the Fitch Publishing Company on December 24, 1913 by John Knowles Fitch. Located in the heart of the Financial District in New York City, the Fitch Publishing Company began as a publisher of financial statistics. In 1924, the Fitch Publishing Company first introduced the now familiar "AAA" to "D" ratings scale to meet the growing demand for independent analysis of financial securities.
http://www.fitchratings.com/web/en/dynamic/about-us/about-us.jsp

[Sparky]

I think today's pop is more related to the virtual elimination of the debt ceiling with the passing of last night's spending bill. As part of the deal, Congress must now vote to impose a debt ceiling, rather than vote to raise it. Lack of such a vote results in automatic raise in the ceiling. And the president has been given veto power over such a vote. This means that imposition of a debt ceiling essentially requires a 2/3 majority. I don't see that ever happening. Creation of debt is now completely unbridled. This should clear the path for gold and silver prices.

[chad]

I think today's pop is more related to the virtual elimination of the debt ceiling with the passing of last night's spending bill. As part of the deal, Congress must now vote to impose a debt ceiling, rather than vote to raise it. Lack of such a vote results in automatic raise in the ceiling. And the president has been given veto power over such a vote. This means that imposition of a debt ceiling essentially requires a 2/3 majority. I don't see that ever happening. Creation of debt is now completely unbridled. This should clear the path for gold and silver prices.

this also means there will never again be a budget. ever. think about that, eh. cr forever.

[Neuro]

the Cartel got the USD index back into the 80's.

maybe that was their goal for the week ?

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif
USDX would have a hard time getting over 80 again methinks...

[Sparky]

this also means there will never again be a budget. ever. think about that, eh. cr forever.

Yes, you may well be correct on this one chad. I've already heard talk about a new procedural structure for future CRs. There's been a bi-partisan proposal to automatically accept the previous year's CR on October 1, and then allow for subsequent modifications.

[Horn]

So what is the current debt ceiling that has been imposed by Congress, Sparky?

In dollars of course.

[gunDriller]

USDX would have a hard time getting over 80 again methinks...

i think they will do what is necessary to get back to 80.5 ish by next Friday.


of course, this is the USD compared to other fiat currencies.

the USD is to a large extent weapons backed, and the US has lots of weapons.


i still wonder if England has the official 5200 tons of Gold left after contributing 1300 tons to this year's manipulation.

[mamboni]

I think this entire government budget impasse was staged purely as a vehicle to change the law and phase out the debt ceiling entirely. In a few months no one will even discuss it. Out of sight and out of mind. China knows this and they are our largest creditor and they just downgraded the US to A- which is a couple of levels above junk IIRC. When your creditor does this he is sending you a message: I'm putting you on a short leash and I'm going to cut you off.

[Sparky]

So what is the current debt ceiling that has been imposed by Congress, Sparky?

In dollars of course.
There is no new dollar figure.

Congress is now allowed to borrow in unlimited fashion until February 7, including whatever necessary to pay back Fed pension fund that they have been robbing these last four months ("extraordinary measures") to stay under the ceiling. Then, whatever total debt has been accumulated by February 7 becomes the new ceiling, at which point Treasury can commence a new round of extraordinary measures.

[Neuro]

i think they will do what is necessary to get back to 80.5 ish by next Friday.


of course, this is the USD compared to other fiat currencies.

the USD is to a large extent weapons backed, and the US has lots of weapons.


i still wonder if England has the official 5200 tons of Gold left after contributing 1300 tons to this year's manipulation.
Certainly, they could do it, start a war and everyone will go back to the USD. They could do it with a combination of trading manipulation, creating crisis in Europe Japan, and media manipulation. But it would be more difficult now...

[Horn]

Then, whatever total debt has been accumulated by February 7 becomes the new ceiling,

How are we supposed to debate a thing set in dollars, when you keep giving me dates?

Ugh, typical Mass. Liberal.... :)

[Sparky]

How are we supposed to debate a thing set in dollars, when you keep giving me dates?

Ugh, typical Mass. Liberal.... :)

I guess rather than a ceiling, it's becoming more like one of those re-tractable stadium domes that can be opened up, and the sky becomes the limit...

[gunDriller]

why is the Gold Silver ratio contracting ?

GSR down to 59, silver up 1 1/2% ish, gold flat to down 1/10 %.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Looks like some more decent up moves today. Think this is fallout from China's US bond downgrade and talk that the USD should no longer be reserve currency?

[mamboni]

Looks like some more decent up moves today. Think this is fallout from China's US bond downgrade and talk that the USD should no longer be reserve currency?

Reading Jim Willie's subscriber newsletter now big shit is coming down the pike, though specific timeline not given:

1. US dollar devaluation coming soon - domestic dollars are devalued during bank holiday while foriegn held dollars made whole - dual currency that screws Americans'
2. China almost done with gold accumulation program - when finished gold will rise explosively at announcement of Shanghai Trade Clearing House backed partly by gold, gold-backed and fully convertible Yuan.


I just moved all my electronic dollars into a Yuan fund. Yuan has been rising ans it's just a matter of time before the big currency reset.

[gunDriller]

Looks like some more decent up moves today. Think this is fallout from China's US bond downgrade and talk that the USD should no longer be reserve currency?

it made the first big move at 8:30 AM Eastern, right when the jobs numbers came out.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

McBride is a good source for US gov. econ. announcements. Organ comments on it too, will probably share his opinion on the big move later today.

[Shami-Amourae]

Rawdog says nothing happened with last debt ceiling fiasco since nothing changed as expected. He says he's more bullish than ever on Silver and has a lot of faith it will rally sometime in February with the next debt ceiling fiasco. Americans are tapped out and can't handle any more expenses. Printing money only works while it works, and then it doesn't. He believes this could be triggered by the next debt ceiling fiasco, and then Silver will start its big rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-hERrkfT8g

[Neuro]

Rawdog says nothing happened with last debt ceiling fiasco since nothing changed as expected. He says he's more bullish than ever on Silver and has a lot of faith it will rally sometime in February with the next debt ceiling fiasco. Americans are tapped out and can't handle any more expenses. Printing money only works while it works, and then it doesn't. He believes this could be triggered by the next debt ceiling fiasco, and then Silver will start its big rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-hERrkfT8g
But he said prices would plunge to basement level once the debt ceiling cleared congress...

[Sparky]

Looks like some more decent up moves today. Think this is fallout from China's US bond downgrade and talk that the USD should no longer be reserve currency?
I think the immediate driver was the jobs report. It's becoming more obvious that there can't possibly be a taper any time in the forseeable future. Many are talking about taper being delayed until March, but I don't see how the initial taper can be the first act of the new Fed Chief. That would send a market panic that she's going to lay the hammer down. No taper means unbridled paper. (Hey, that's not a bad sig line...)

This realization is emerging as we enter gold's most favorable seasonal period.

[Sparky]

...
1. US dollar devaluation coming soon - domestic dollars are devalued during bank holiday while foriegn held dollars made whole - dual currency that screws Americans'
...
I need help understanding this. Why would they institute an overnight devaluation of the dollar and cause panic, when they can gradually devalue it by having the Fed create $85 billion new dollars every month? Their current plan is far more clever and well-disguised.

[gunDriller]

http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif

wonder how Bernanke feels about this ? (USD @ 79.25)

i think they're trying to keep the $ away from 78-handle territory.


the low $ is supposedly good for exports, but what does the US make except high-tech toys and tools, GMO corn, and war toys ?

[Neuro]

http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif

wonder how Bernanke feels about this ? (USD @ 79.25)

i think they're trying to keep the $ away from 78-handle territory.


the low $ is supposedly good for exports, but what does the US make except high-tech toys and tools, GMO corn, and war toys ?
T-bonds.

[gunDriller]

back in April, if we had seen Silver @ 22.60, we would have said,

"back up the truck/ mule/ jet-ski" :)

http://www.providentmetals.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/300x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/s/gsm-both.jpg

[gunDriller]

Options Expiry Monday ?

or was it Friday ?


seems to usually inspire a price raid.

[mamboni]

I need help understanding this. Why would they institute an overnight devaluation of the dollar and cause panic, when they can gradually devalue it by having the Fed create $85 billion new dollars every month? Their current plan is far more clever and well-disguised.

Because they are no longer in control. I heard an interview about China and basically between sovereign wealth funds, forex reserves and citizen savings and assets, China is the wealthiest nation and has enough liquid assets to survive a currency war with the US. China is accumulating physical gold at an astounding rate, like a nation mobilized for a currency war. China has made it plain that it wants an end to American Hegemony and they know that the best way to achieve that end is to dethrone the dollar as world reserve currency. While China gets stronger and prepares to pull the trigger on the dollar, the US is floundering, her industries gutted, her population unemployed and dependent, her government indecisive and captive to special interests, and her treasury full of $trillions upon $trillions in IOUs. It's rather easy to see how this movie ends.

Got gold? Got silver? Got Guns? Got grub?

[gunDriller]

It's rather easy to see how this movie ends.


all the Jews move from New York, Florida, and California to Beijing ... and they put in a big fan to blow the pollution towards the US ?

[Sparky]

Because they are no longer in control. I heard an interview about China and basically between sovereign wealth funds, forex reserves and citizen savings and assets, China is the wealthiest nation and has enough liquid assets to survive a currency war with the US. China is accumulating physical gold at an astounding rate, like a nation mobilized for a currency war. China has made it plain that it wants an end to American Hegemony and they know that the best way to achieve that end is to dethrone the dollar as world reserve currency. While China gets stronger and prepares to pull the trigger on the dollar, the US is floundering, her industries gutted, her population unemployed and dependent, her government indecisive and captive to special interests, and her treasury full of $trillions upon $trillions in IOUs. It's rather easy to see how this movie ends.

Got gold? Got silver? Got Guns? Got grub?

Oh, so you are saying overnight involuntarily devaluation at the demand of the Chinese? I thought you were implying voluntary devaluation by the U.S. government. That's the part I can never understand in these discussions of devaluation, i.e. that the gov't will issue new currency voluntarily. My point is that I don't see why they would ever do that when they have such a sweet international deal with the USD.

[Son-of-Liberty]

What were the economic conditions back in the Great depression when they confiscated the gold and revalued it from $20 to $35 that was basically an overnight devaluation.

[Neuro]

all the Jews move from New York, Florida, and California to Beijing ... and they put in a big fan to blow the pollution towards the US ?
Nah, they will say you killed 6 million, of them and force you to pay reparations...

[Son-of-Liberty]

WTF just happened? G/S were up nicely today and just took a major dump....

On my phone or I would post it myself but look at the silver chart. 60 cent cliff.

More manipulation....

[gunDriller]

WTF just happened? G/S were up nicely today and just took a major dump....

On my phone or I would post it myself but look at the silver chart. 60 cent cliff.

More manipulation....

Fed minutes announcement at 2 PM Eastern.

[gunDriller]

the conversation on Friday was about how close we are to a 'death cross'.

(50 to 60 day MA crossing 200 DMA, going down).

this apparently triggers big selling.

Dan N. says the hedge funds are controlling the markets. i don't understand entirely, he acknowledges the Cartel, yet still insists that the hedgies are primary movers of the market.

http://www.kitco.com/lfgif/au1825lf_ma.gif

since the 60 DMA is already (?) below the 200 DMA ... i don't entirely understand.

http://traderdannorcini.blogspot.com/


anyway, it sounds like the Cartel may be working mightily this next week to push the price enough to induce the hedgies to sell.

they're mostly Jews, the Cartel and the hedgies.


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2013/11/3_Andrew_Maguire_files/Andrew%20Maguire%2011%3A3%3A2013.mp3

Andrew Maguire says there's 1900 tons of physical left.

More details would be good but that means default is about ... 6 months away. :)

[Son-of-Liberty]

I am really starting to despise PM's, things keep getting worse economically, politically and socially they never move up. By the time they finally break out it will be too late to make use of the gain.

I am really starting to consider liquidating half of my stash and and moving it into crypto currency.

Had I sold silver a month ago and invested in BTC I would be up 70% already.

Plus there are places you can invest your cypto's and make interest so even if they are stale or down-trending at least you are accumulating more instead of sitting there with your thumbs up your ass hopping that at some point it might go up.

At this point with the suppression of PM values anything bad enough to get PM's to finally break out will make crypto's go up 10x as fast.

[mamboni]

I am really starting to despise PM's, things keep getting worse economically, politically and socially they never move up. By the time they finally break out it will be too late to make use of the gain.

I am really starting to consider liquidating half of my stash and and moving it into crypto currency.

Had I sold silver a month ago and invested in BTC I would be up 70% already.

Plus there are places you can invest your cypto's and make interest so even if they are stale or down-trending at least you are accumulating more instead of sitting there with your thumbs up your ass hopping that at some point it might go up.

At this point with the suppression of PM values anything bad enough to get PM's to finally break out will make crypto's go up 10x as fast.

Sell your metal if you must. Mind what you have learned. Save you it can. Picking up pennies before a steamroller you are! Patience! Do not take the quick and easy path. That leads to the paper wealth! Seductive it is. No, only the most committed and disciplined, one of sound mind, can hold silver and gold. Only a fully controlled goldbug can hope to win the game of waiting for the inevitable collapse of the paper wealth delusion. Now, from a great master you learn:

Sunday, 3 November 2013




The Permanent Squeeze




The Permanent Squeeze

To get a better understanding of my reasoning behind this post please read my other posts, as well as the accompanying comments at the end of each post.

If the BRICS launch a Gold Backed Basket of Fruit, or the IMF are successful in pulling-off a Gold Backed SDR, then the rest of the world’s nations will have no other choice than to follow suit.

Under this scenario, the nationalisation of Gold mines to protect sovereign interests would become paramount, in which case you can kiss Gold production from ever hitting the open market. Central Banks would be putting the ‘Fire and Brimstone’ case forward to any Government who so much as thinks of selling Gold to any entity other than a Bank of the Cable.

The thought of an investor cashing in even part of their stash in such a climate, after surviving an endless series of Bullion Bank ‘Tree Shaking’, doesn’t make much sense…with the exception of some pat-on-the-back profit taking and some R&R.

In such a climate you can forget about anyone in the East giving-up their Yellow Brick Road to a Western Standard of Living as well.

If we look back over the past 5 years we notice an ever decreasing number of people flogging-off their Gold jewellery; other than the one in a thousand people who understand and are buying, I just don’t think the lower and middle class [general] public have any meaningful amount of Gold left. If a Gold Backed something comes out and jacks the price of Gold over $2,000/oz that will trigger a sudden Western MSM ‘Bubble’ sell-off, and this will clear out all but the Gold Bugs.

So, in the scenario I have painted above, I hope you can see that all the weak hands have been parted of their barbarous relic, and all that remains are the Western and Eastern Central Banks, Eastern Cultures, and the Gold Bugs who own and hold Gold. Also, that any mining production will go directly toward…*drum roll*…Credit Expansion.

NOTE: Annual mining production is only 1.5% of above ground stocks and economies require at least 3% growth, so Gold can and will pegged higher and higher.

This is the atmosphere which will support ‘The Permanent Squeeze’, and it is in this climate where we will see the evolution of my mythical $134,000/oz Price of Gold.
“The last item on my list is the ‘Permanent Squeeze’. In my opinion, this single attribute of the Gold space dwarfs all others potentials added together, in its capacity to bring uplift to Physical Gold as an asset. If this squeeze ever occurs, and the global economy survives in one piece, the average human will never see more than a single ounce of Physical Gold, at one time, in one piece. This is a world where Gold is so rare, that if you divide the rate of annual Gold production by the number of people on the planet, then it will take 65-75 years for each person to be able to accumulate just 1 ounce of physical Gold. So if all the above ground reserves are spoken for and securely vaulted, then Gold’s true value is almost unlimited. Every Gold investor needs to get their head around that simple scenario, because if the global markets do run out of physical within the coming years (especially so if the global economy continues to unwind), then you will need to need to understand this possibility so that you don’t sell if/when things get tight or painful.”
http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/gold-going-goinggone-in-this-post-i.html

PREDICTION: I have given a time line for the commencement of the ramp up in the Price of Gold: no earlier than 18 months and no greater than 5 years from now.

Highest probability is around Feb-Mar 2016.

Derivative defaults will occur almost immediately.

Price of Gold at $134,000/oz within 3 years of this date.

TSP

[gunDriller]

I am really starting to despise PM's, things keep getting worse economically, politically and socially they never move up. By the time they finally break out it will be too late to make use of the gain.

I am really starting to consider liquidating half of my stash and and moving it into crypto currency.

Had I sold silver a month ago and invested in BTC I would be up 70% already.


if i had accepted Apple's job offer in 1980, i would probably have received some valuable stock options.

but i had already given someone else my word. i knew little about American business ethics.


don't let hindsight cause you to question the fundamentals of your investment.

that's exactly what the Cartel wants. cough up your silver at or near the cost of production.


of course, if you need $50 to buy a lift ticket or something, nothing wrong with selling a little.

[Neuro]

I am really starting to despise PM's, things keep getting worse economically, politically and socially they never move up. By the time they finally break out it will be too late to make use of the gain.

I am really starting to consider liquidating half of my stash and and moving it into crypto currency.

Had I sold silver a month ago and invested in BTC I would be up 70% already.

Plus there are places you can invest your cypto's and make interest so even if they are stale or down-trending at least you are accumulating more instead of sitting there with your thumbs up your ass hopping that at some point it might go up.

At this point with the suppression of PM values anything bad enough to get PM's to finally break out will make crypto's go up 10x as fast.
Trading real value against something without value? Sure short term you can definitely beat the non-stellar current performance of gold and silver... But man trading something that's been around for the entire history of civilizations of man as currency vs something that's been around for 4 years, that is only an EMP or a shutdown of internet away to be entirely worthless? It's your call! I wouldn't do it...

[Son-of-Liberty]

I had an epiphany last night I think. Maybe just paranoia.

The banking families know that there are gold bugs that are holding PM's to protect themselves from the fiat ponzi scheme. But being psychopaths and wanting it all they don't like us cutting into their potential ownership of the world so how do they deal with us gold bugs? They want to take everyone's wealth with no way out of the trap.

It sort of just hit me last night. Eventually PM's will go up in value, they have to and the bankers know this.

The key for them is to hold the price of PM's down well into a crises. It doesn't matter if price explodes at that point because:

1. most gold bugs will be forced to start liquidating just to survive

2. once we are in full crisis and the economy is shambles they will have much more public support for confiscatory taxes. They will say that PM holders have made a windfall gain and will tax at 75-90%. TSA agents are standing by to confiscate your property should you try and flee the country.

So you see they don't have to suppress the price forever, just long enough that we are well into collapse before PM's respond. So far they are doing a fantastic job.

Thinking about my own situation one of the reasons I bought PM's was because I eventually wanted to turn some of that gain into a homestead so I can be more self-sufficient. With the coming economic collapse being able to provide most of your own necessities will be vital I think. However I just keep putting it off waiting for PM's to go up in value but while I wait I am losing the time value of owning the property.

Once I buy the property it will realistically take 2-3 years to get everything built/or fixed, build livestock flocks and herds, plant perennial fruit, nut and berry crops, and just learn the ropes. Once crisis hits I may have the money and land may be cheap but I won't have the time anymore so they will have me by the balls just like everyone else.

[gunDriller]

i think limitations of physical supply, hastened by the mine closures, will eventually unveil the nuttiness of letting paper games dictate price, instead of old-fashioned supply & demand.


of course, there is the opposite of transparency in the system.

Andrew Maguire said @ KWN that there were 1900 tons to satisfy Cartel needs - physical that is sold during the time of price raids/ physical used to 'support' the raids.


also i think they get guys like Puplava to be Dollar Pimps and Stock Market Pimps.

all of the reasons to buy gold in 2011 are 'even-more-so' today, yet Puplava is pimping the $ now, when 2 1/2-3 years ago he wasn't.

of course, his primary business is investment advising in San Diego.

that means a standard profile of his customer is retired military/ retired SAIC.


i think TPTB use these kinds of social networks to slow down the moment of confrontation when physical supply/ default becomes obvious, the paper (Gold) game becomes fractured.

but i wouldn't hold my breath on predicting the date AND i would think of Cash-ola (AKA FRN's) as "insurance" on your PM's. (not PMS insurance, PM's insurance. optimally you will have both :) )

e.g. if your well breaks, or your car dies, and you are FORCED to spend $$, you don't have to sell PM's at a discount, to cover the contingency.

[Neuro]

I had an epiphany last night I think. Maybe just paranoia.

The banking families know that there are gold bugs that are holding PM's to protect themselves from the fiat ponzi scheme. But being psychopaths and wanting it all they don't like us cutting into their potential ownership of the world so how do they deal with us gold bugs? They want to take everyone's wealth with no way out of the trap.

It sort of just hit me last night. Eventually PM's will go up in value, they have to and the bankers know this.

The key for them is to hold the price of PM's down well into a crises. It doesn't matter if price explodes at that point because:

1. most gold bugs will be forced to start liquidating just to survive

2. once we are in full crisis and the economy is shambles they will have much more public support for confiscatory taxes. They will say that PM holders have made a windfall gain and will tax at 75-90%. TSA agents are standing by to confiscate your property should you try and flee the country.

So you see they don't have to suppress the price forever, just long enough that we are well into collapse before PM's respond. So far they are doing a fantastic job.

Thinking about my own situation one of the reasons I bought PM's was because I eventually wanted to turn some of that gain into a homestead so I can be more self-sufficient. With the coming economic collapse being able to provide most of your own necessities will be vital I think. However I just keep putting it off waiting for PM's to go up in value but while I wait I am losing the time value of owning the property.

Once I buy the property it will realistically take 2-3 years to get everything built/or fixed, build livestock flocks and herds, plant perennial fruit, nut and berry crops, and just learn the ropes. Once crisis hits I may have the money and land may be cheap but I won't have the time anymore so they will have me by the balls just like everyone else.
Sure I can see your point, and possibly, if your lucky, you can turn a short term profit on bitcoins, and increase your chances of getting to where you want sooner. I bought some cheap remote land in 2008, with silver I sold close to the peak in March 2008 ($19.30), I bought silver back at $10-15, built a stone house and fenced the property in 2011-12, partly with gold that I got from trading for silver at silvers peak April 2011, planted some fruit trees this summer which will begin giving fruit next year. Damn it I am just lucky that TPTB has been able to keep the system going for as long as they have. But I have a feeling its going to take a few more years, maybe even longer, before the collapse is allowed to happen, and I think we will see gold and silver go up and down, even more wildly than we have seen so far with the emphasis on up. I am going to add up to my stack as to my ability at times when I see it opportune, and I will sell at times to take a profit, or when I need cash for something I deem essential at a good price..
As for the gold bugs, I dont think they care to much about our meager holdings. China buys more gold this year than current world production, they crush the gold price, China buys even more, of THEIR gold, and eventually the disconnect between paper and gold is too big and their paper game is over. Good luck man!

[Libertarian_Guard]

if i had accepted Apple's job offer in 1980, i would probably have received some valuable stock options.

but i had already given someone else my word. i knew little about American business ethics.

Why would you give a 'hoot' about other peoples ethics? You did the right thing, you stayed true and acted on your own ethics! Shakespeare would have been proud of you.

[Neuro]

Why would you give a 'hoot' about other peoples ethics? You did the right thing, you stayed true and acted on your own ethics! Shakespeare would have been proud of you.
Shakespeare could barely read and write, he certainly didn't write anything attributed to 'Shakespeare' anyway...

[Son-of-Liberty]

i think limitations of physical supply, hastened by the mine closures, will eventually unveil the nuttiness of letting paper games dictate price, instead of old-fashioned supply & demand.


of course, there is the opposite of transparency in the system.

Andrew Maguire said @ KWN that there were 1900 tons to satisfy Cartel needs - physical that is sold during the time of price raids/ physical used to 'support' the raids.


also i think they get guys like Puplava to be Dollar Pimps and Stock Market Pimps.

all of the reasons to buy gold in 2011 are 'even-more-so' today, yet Puplava is pimping the $ now, when 2 1/2-3 years ago he wasn't.

of course, his primary business is investment advising in San Diego.

that means a standard profile of his customer is retired military/ retired SAIC.


i think TPTB use these kinds of social networks to slow down the moment of confrontation when physical supply/ default becomes obvious, the paper (Gold) game becomes fractured.

but i wouldn't hold my breath on predicting the date AND i would think of Cash-ola (AKA FRN's) as "insurance" on your PM's. (not PMS insurance, PM's insurance. optimally you will have both :) )

e.g. if your well breaks, or your car dies, and you are FORCED to spend $$, you don't have to sell PM's at a discount, to cover the contingency.

Puplava is really starting to piss me off.

Even if he is right is ethics are lacking.

[Horn]

If we all focus our mental powers enabled by the new age Aquarius, in our posts

silver could break their backs in a fortnight.

[gunDriller]

If we all focus our mental powers enabled by the new age Aquarius, in our posts

silver could break their backs in a fortnight.

i assume you mean physical silver.

the problem is, lack of transparency. whether it's a fortnight or a year, we would need to know above ground stocks of 'for sale' silver, dore that's just waiting for refining, etc.

[Horn]

i assume you mean physical silver.

the problem is, lack of transparency. whether it's a fortnight or a year, we would need to know above ground stocks of 'for sale' silver, dore that's just waiting for refining, etc.

I think I have a couple grams in half a dozen old cell phones in my bottom drawer,

don't forget to add those in.

[Spectrism]

Prediction: silver will be at $19.65 on October 28th 2013.


I was more than a month early on this. We may even beat that number, now that the drop has been delayed.

People are still trusting cash... and that will be the first knee-jerk reaction to troubled news. When the feds dump cash on people, the metals will soar.... but only as the dollar crashes.

[mamboni]

American Eagle silver coin sales hit a record: U.S. Mint (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/11/american-eagle-silver-coin-sales-hit-a-record-u-s-mint/)

Posted on November 12, 2013 (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/11/american-eagle-silver-coin-sales-hit-a-record-u-s-mint/) by Stacy Herbert (http://www.maxkeiser.com/author/stacyherbert/) — 2 Comments ↓ (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/11/american-eagle-silver-coin-sales-hit-a-record-u-s-mint/#comments)

Stacy Summary: Amazingly good news that Americans are quietly, patiently stacking while still able to exchange fiat for real money.
American Eagle silver coin sales hit a record: U.S. Mint (http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/11/12/american-eagle-silver-coin-sales-hit-a-record-u-s-mint/?mod=sfmw)



Authorized purchasers of the coins ordered their full weekly allocation of 500,000 coins, bringing the total sales to date this year to a record 40.175 million ounces, the Mint said.
That sales figure topped the previous annual record of 39.869 million ounces seen in 2011.



http://47mb5740sj2k1xsfst40mqbb16bh.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/silver-eagle.jpg


Reinforcements have arrived for 1beinki!



Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/#SwCPfWw3UjmF841C.99

[mamboni]

I was more than a month early on this. We may even beat that number, now that the drop has been delayed.

People are still trusting cash... and that will be the first knee-jerk reaction to troubled news. When the feds dump cash on people, the metals will soar.... but only as the dollar crashes.

If silver breaks below $20 I will purchase 2000 silver eagles. This silver price is more bullish than when silver was $5 in 2003.

[Neuro]

If silver breaks below $20 I will purchase 2000 silver eagles. This silver price is more bullish than when silver was $5 in 2003.
Are you going to buy any if it doesn't?

[mamboni]

Are you going to buy any if it doesn't?

Not sure. I'm thinking about quitting my practice. So I am sitting on a load of cash and I'm thinking that if I quit that I should stay in cash. I already have a lot of metal. Yeah, I'm torn, because silver at these prices is a no brainer buy. In fact, the US Mint just announced suspension of production of SAEs in early December after reporting sales of exactly 1,000,000 in October. Something doesn't smell right here. First of all, 1,000,000 is very low compared to the prior months - and what's the chance of this exact number? Two, the total annual sales still equate to an all time record. So I think that the mint is undereporting sales and trying to thwart SAE sales by curtailing production (a signal to the dealers to back off) to prevent an even higher record number.

[gunDriller]

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

Harvey observed mining equities being raided on Friday, and says that is often a precursor to a raid on PM's themselves.

From the sound of it, he expects this to happen Monday November 18.


Also again Thursday when jobs numbers are released if they are better than expected and therefore correlate to a possible reduction to the much-talked-about Taper.


Bill McBride has a good schedule of economic news releases, some of which tie in to what Harvey is talking about.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

[madfranks]

What's with the major down move today? Gold down $25? Silver down $0.75?

[mamboni]

What's with the major down move today? Gold down $25? Silver down $0.75?

Taper talk. What else is new.

[Sparky]

Gold is a small enough market that it is amongst the easiest to manipulate. (All markets are manipulated.) So the manipulators use headlines to sway people's influence.

Gold Stages Another 'Taper' Drop- Blame Congress (http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2013/12/12/gold-stages-another-taper-drop-blame-congress/?mod=yahoobarrons&ru=yahoo)

The tipoff is in the third paragraph:

"You’d think the Fed’s “taper” should be “priced in” the market by now, but gold is down again."

Exactly. For a commodity that has been falling for two years, and for a topic (tapering) that has been discussed for month, you'd think that there's no news here. And there isn't. But the manipulators use these opportunities to make people think that the price change they are exerting is related to fundamentals.

This is why the strategy of "Buy/Sell the rumor, Sell/Buy the news" is often effective. Manipulators are preying on emotion. At some point, the manipulators are going to try to make money on the upside, because they know that fundamentally the case for gold is good. That's when the price will finally turn upward in earnest. This is why technical traders look for "higher lows". It means that the manipulators are having an increasingly difficult time swaying new sellers.

The June low was $1180. Last week's low was $1211. This morning's low was $1224. This is a test to see if there are enough weak hands out there to push for lower price (which is what they ultimately want to buy in at). They also know that that people are aware of these technicals, so they try to break them emotionally, i.e. pushing the low below $1211 or $1180 would really scare gold holders. After such a long period of selling (2 years), we are now at the point where the manipulators are battling each other. Some of them are ready to make the turn higher. Others still want lower price before the turn, and are trying to scare the other manipulators. That's why it's such a battle.

So it will be interesting to see if the $1211 holds or not. If it does, the manipulators who are ready to turn higher get the upper hand. If it doesn't hold, the manipulators who want lower price before turning the market will have the upper hand.

[mick silver]

keep pushing and i will keep buying on the lows ... what most of they guys tell me go in one ear and out the other . i buy when i can an on lows

[mick silver]

so far it a up day on metals

[Sparky]

Maybe they're going after the $16 price that we've talked about. Regardless, I bought a handful of rounds today when the spot price was $19.19.

[madfranks]

I bought $2k of junk silver yesterday just under $20/oz and the very next day it drops over 50 cents!!

[Spectrism]

I am traveling and don't have my charts... but I think the bottom support could be around $17 now. Hell... it could even go down to $12... but that is not likely.

We have in real world a depression happening and deflation of money. The real world is being masked by a government supporting half the country on subsidies and needless jobs. It is pumping up the banks which are damned beyond salvation and that money is going into the stock market to make things look good, even as businesses decays. The rich people are causing an inflation in their realms of buying while the poor see an absence of money.

The taper story is a funny one. What difference is a fictional drop of $10billion in subsidies on a fictitious $83billion (per month) pumping caper? Are they really only pumping $83billion per month? You can only see what they show you. In this fictional world, nothing is real.


The drop in metals pricing is another fiction. It is the selling of fictional paper that never was backed by the metals one-for-one. The fictional story is impacting the real world. At some point the fictional world burns up and the real world must fend for itself. The hell that is coming won't be bought off by any amount of wealth. We can only delay some impacts and prepare to avoid being corralled.

[madfranks]

I am traveling and don't have my charts... but I think the bottom support could be around $17 now. Hell... it could even go down to $12... but that is not likely.

I've got $5k coming in that I want to put into silver. This would be great for me.

[Sparky]

To understand what is going on, note that the 2014 strong open in precious metals is accompanied by a strong move in the U.S. dollar. As I've been saying, the USD will continue to be the go-to currency in times of distress. But it's interesting that precious metals is also receiving "safe haven" support today. This did not happen during the 2008 financial panic.

[EE_]

To understand what is going on, note that the 2014 strong open in precious metals is accompanied by a strong move in the U.S. dollar. As I've been saying, the USD will continue to be the go-to currency in times of distress. But it's interesting that precious metals is also receiving "safe haven" support today. This did not happen during the 2008 financial panic.

I believe investers sold GLD the last trading day of the year to offset gains they were taking on stocks.
Now they are buying their gold back because they don't want to be out of the gold trade.
Bullish me thinks

[gunDriller]

I LOVE TODAY'S PRICE ACTION ! :)

Gold @ $1310, Silver newly affordable at $21.40-ish.

[mick silver]

they just keep giving us all a break . buy till you drop when you can . one day we all will look back and think why in the hell didnt i buy with both hands . back the truck up beeb beeb

[govcheetos]

These are the good old days.

[gunDriller]

These are the good old days.

i remember in 2009 or maybe 2010 when Gold was around $1200 and you could get 3 sovereigns for about $1000, or 4 20 Franc fractionals for about $1000.

now that those prices are here, again, temporarily, i sure welcome them.

[Glass]

We seem to be pretty much back where we started.
6488
Silver was pretty much the same. The past year has been a journey but no progress.

I seen one pundit calling a bottom for gold. Early call IMO. What think you?

[Neuro]

We seem to be pretty much back where we started.
6488
Silver was pretty much the same. The past year has been a journey but no progress.

I seen one pundit calling a bottom for gold. Early call IMO. What think you?
I'm permabullish! ;D

[gunDriller]

let's see some more $19 Silver.

http://a.gifb.in/sw50sw8sw578.gif

[gunDriller]

Mission Accomplished.

Gold Silver Ratio is up to 66.369, Gold in the $1300's and silver in the $19's. When that happens the ratio is always 65 or more. (1300/20)

Dan Norcini is pointing out correlations with GSCI (Goldman Sachs Commodity Index) and other commodities.

Anyway, the way it's acting, if Gold goes down, I think the Gold-Silver ratio will make its way up to 69.

The highest its gotten since April 2013 is about 68.


I think it might be easier to guess the ratio ahead of time than to guess the actual price.

[Glass]

I made a sale last week after procrastinating for about 2 weeks. I said it would pop as soon as I sold. Sure enough. A difference of about $150.00USD on the volume. Not sure how much that is in AUD but it would probably be a bit more.

[gunDriller]

seems like Silver is caught between its ties to the currency world and the commodity world.

Gold up, supposedly on Geopolitical risk.

Copper down, Doctor Copper that is.


what i don't understand is, if some small skirmishes in Iraq (and Ukraine) somehow are tied
to Gold being at $1300+ ... why was Gold in the $300's back in 2003 when the US invaded Iraq ?

[hoarder]

Paper gold, which has unlimited supply, is still attached to the price of gold.

[osoab]

what i don't understand is, if some small skirmishes in Iraq (and Ukraine) somehow are tied
to Gold being at $1300+ ... why was Gold in the $300's back in 2003 when the US invaded Iraq ?

Ben ran the printers.

[gunDriller]

$1305 Gold

+ $19.575 Silver ==>

Gold/Silver Ratio = 66.666666666666666666666666666667


Never had that happen before !

[Uncle Salty]

Get ready for the silver moon shot. It's coming soon this fall to a COMEX warehouse!

[osoab]

Get ready for the silver moon shot. It's coming soon this fall to a COMEX warehouse!

again?

[gunDriller]

If we all concentrate really hard, can we get the Silver price back into the 18's ?

Those are the kind of specialized telepathy skills that would come in handy.


I heard a story about Jesse Livermore. That he had a premonition about railroad stocks and/ or the 1906 quake. He went short railroads the day before the quake. Made a bundle.

[madfranks]

Bloodbath in the metals today. I can only assume it's because of the Fed (temporarily) stopping QE, now inflation outlooks are lower and traditional inflation hedges (gold/silver) are less attractive. This is dollar positive!!

[Neuro]

Get ready for the silver moon shot. It's coming soon this fall to a COMEX warehouse!
There is no moon...

[Sparky]

Bloodbath in the metals today. I can only assume it's because of the Fed (temporarily) stopping QE, now inflation outlooks are lower and traditional inflation hedges (gold/silver) are less attractive. This is dollar positive!!

If it was QE, then the metals should have been soaring these last three years during this huge QE outlay.

Manipulators or "operators" use these news events to their advantage. I'm assuming we are seeing a massive paper short going on. Hopefully this will be the so-called "exhaustion" low. If it is, we should see a fast short-covering V-shaped rebound by the end of the close tomorrow. If we don't, then it probably means we STILL haven't reached a bottom, and we'll have to endure $1000 gold.

[Spectrism]

I only get nervous when the prices of PMs go up. Anyone know why?

[Sparky]

I only get nervous when the prices of PMs go up. Anyone know why?

Yes, because the value of insurance only becomes apparent when your house is on fire.

[Steal]

There is no moon...

But I think their may be a blackhole forming.....low print on the white metal now $15.96!

[Neuro]

But I think their may be a blackhole forming.....low print on the white metal now $15.96!
It starts becoming an affordable alternative to ballast rocks.

[gunDriller]

i believe this is what is called, the "Capitulation Phase".

reminds me of Feb 2010 when Silver crawled down to the low $15's, high 14's.

[Glass]

I'm all out maybe 2 months. Was not real happy at the time. ++ but we always like some more no? Not so troubled now though.

[Neuro]

Gold broke its $1180 resistance, we may see this go down quite a bit more, before it turns. It is very disturbing though that silver art bar got another prediction pulled out of his ass/ gut feeling correct... Dayum!

[Sparky]

Gold broke its $1180 resistance, we may see this go down quite a bit more, before it turns. It is very disturbing though that silver art bar got another prediction pulled out of his ass/ gut feeling correct... Dayum!
The $1160 low this morning is roughly a .618 Fib retracement of the entire move from the 2008 low ($680) to the 2011 top ($1921). So if that doesn't hold, it's probably going down to the longstanding resistance/support level of $1000, or the .786 Fib retracement at $945. That's a lot of pain, and would represent quite a shakeout of weak hands.

Probably not coincidentally, those low levels represent the range that Goldman Sachs predicted at the beginning of the year, to be reached in 2015.

[Neuro]

The $1160 low this morning is roughly a .618 Fib retracement of the entire move from the 2008 low ($680) to the 2011 top ($1921). So if that doesn't hold, it's probably going down to the longstanding resistance/support level of $1000, or the .786 Fib retracement at $945. That's a lot of pain, and would represent quite a shakeout of weak hands.

Probably not coincidentally, those low levels represent the range that Goldman Sachs predicted at the beginning of the year, to be reached in 2015.
So far not a convincing turn at $1160, right now trading around $1163. As I recall it the intraday high of the 2008 high was around $1030, so I think it is entirely possible that we see it bounce at that level... What will silver be then $12?

[govcheetos]

Man that sucks. Just logged on.

[Sparky]

Maybe they're going after the $16 price that we've talked about. Regardless, I bought a handful of rounds today when the spot price was $19.19.

They finally got their $16 today.

[Sparky]

...
The June low was $1180. Last week's low was $1211. This morning's low was $1224. This is a test to see if there are enough weak hands out there to push for lower price (which is what they ultimately want to buy in at). They also know that that people are aware of these technicals, so they try to break them emotionally, i.e. pushing the low below $1211 or $1180 would really scare gold holders. After such a long period of selling (2 years), we are now at the point where the manipulators are battling each other. Some of them are ready to make the turn higher. Others still want lower price before the turn, and are trying to scare the other manipulators. That's why it's such a battle.

So it will be interesting to see if the $1211 holds or not. If it does, the manipulators who are ready to turn higher get the upper hand. If it doesn't hold, the manipulators who want lower price before turning the market will have the upper hand.

I'm bumping my own post from last December, because after 16 months, the gold price today made its way all the way down to below the $1180 low of June 2013. So this is worth re-reading for context.

[Spectrism]

I'm bumping my own post from last December, because after 16 months, the gold price today made its way all the way down to below the $1180 low of June 2013. So this is worth re-reading for context.

And this is profound?

So it will be interesting to see if the $1211 holds or not. If it does, the manipulators who are ready to turn higher get the upper hand. If it doesn't hold, the manipulators who want lower price before turning the market will have the upper hand.

So, if it go low the big boys have it and if it goes high the big boys have it. Got it.

[madfranks]

And this is profound?
.

So, if it go low the big boys have it and if it goes high the big boys have it. Got it.

Yes, some manipulators get what they want either way, not too hard to understand.

[gunDriller]

And this is profound?

So, if it go low the big boys have it and if it goes high the big boys have it. Got it.


Yes, some manipulators get what they want either way, not too hard to understand.

I can't help but wonder if it might make a good board game, like Monopoly, but different.

For the first go-round, I'll be a Jew bankster insider.

I'm selling 100 contracts of Silver short at $15. The US gov has agreed to protect me from losses, in exchange for me helping prop up the US $.

OK, I made $300 on each contract. That's $30,000. That'll buy 100 Gold Sovereigns.


It's just a board game, a Pretend World. Like Fox News. Who wants to be a Stacker ? I DO !

[Sparky]

Yes, some manipulators get what they want either way, not too hard to understand.

See, madfranks gets it. When it comes to a reversal, all the manipulators aren't in sync. That's why it's hard to pick a bottom (or a top). They're competing against each other at the turns. They're not all on the same team.

[gunDriller]

See, madfranks gets it. When it comes to a reversal, all the manipulators aren't in sync. That's why it's hard to pick a bottom (or a top). They're competing against each other at the turns. They're not all on the same team.

I think ABN Amro gets it too.

in their case "it" is their position as a member of the Cartel.

these are the same people that experienced a default a few months before the big raid in April 2013.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/don-t-catch-falling-knife-063225453.html

"The selloff in gold is set to deepen as the dollar will probably extend gains, according to ABN Amro NV, which forecast that the precious metal may end this year at $1,100 an ounce and finish 2015 at $800.

"Don't try to catch a falling knife," analyst Georgette Boele wrote in an e-mailed report received today. "The U.S. dollar rally has further to run, especially if the Fed turns more hawkish this year." "

[Neuro]

I think it is important to realize that the main importance of especially Gold manipulation, is that the objective of TPTB is to keep its price down in relation to fiat currencies, or rather to prop up the value of fiat currency. Fiat currency is a multi-trillion dollar business, while actual physical gold transactions are a few hundreds of billions annually, while physical silver are just a few billion dollars a year. A manipulator who loses a few tens of millions a year suppressing the price of silver indirectly weakening the gold market, is very valuable to TPTB. Let the price go up once in a while, but make sure that those who see the value in gold and silver gets burned at regular intervals use media and financial analysts to whip up frenzies when bagholders are needed, and depress sentiments to shake out the weak hands. The bigger game is the perceived value of fiat currency. Profit or loss in precious metal trading is really not that important.

[gunDriller]

stack it, baby ! :)

http://cdn1.providentmetals.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/253x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/e/w/ew-opm-silver_kilo-bars_1_1_1.jpg


you could build a house out of Kilo Silver Bars.

if you had enough money and enough insanity/stacker-itis.

[madfranks]

About a week ago a significant derail to this thread occurred, and instead of discussing daily PM price moves, a discussion on the future outlook of PMs began, which isn't bad, but not the intent of this thread. So to keep this thread on topic, I created a new thread called "Gold/Silver price outlook" and moved the appropriate posts to that thread. Link:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?81288-Gold-Silver-price-outlook

[mick silver]

Tuesday’s Trading:


Dow (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow) -127.93

17,373.72
-0.73%
Nasdaq (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/nasdaq) -51.66

4,600.91
-1.11%
S&P (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/sandp) -16.75

2,003.83 it look like pm are up today as the stock drop in price

[1970 silver art]

About a week ago a significant derail to this thread occurred, and instead of discussing daily PM price moves, a discussion on the future outlook of PMs began, which isn't bad, but not the intent of this thread. So to keep this thread on topic, I created a new thread called "Gold/Silver price outlook" and moved the appropriate posts to that thread. Link:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?81288-Gold-Silver-price-outlook

I apologize to Sparky for derailing his thread. Thank Madfranks for creating another one.

[steyr_m]

Looking through today's news.... What is with the big drop? I cannot seem to find it.

[Sparky]

Looking through today's news.... What is with the big drop? I cannot seem to find it.

I usually assume that these drops are simply manipulative traps to shake out weak hands. But if you need a news blurb, Blooberg offers this:

Gold Futures Tumble to 6-week Low on Signs of China's Demand Ebbs (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-17/gold-holds-three-day-gain-after-greece-bailout-talks-break-down)

Somehow, the entire gold market realized all at once this morning that China's demand was ebbing. Amazing how they draw these conclusions simultaneously. Even more amazingly than that, at the same time, silver investors figured that this warranted triple the drop in silver.

[madfranks]

I usually assume that these drops are simply manipulative traps to shake out weak hands. But if you need a news blurb, Blooberg offers this:

Gold Futures Tumble to 6-week Low on Signs of China's Demand Ebbs (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-17/gold-holds-three-day-gain-after-greece-bailout-talks-break-down)

Somehow, the entire gold market realized all at once this morning that China's demand was ebbing. Amazing how they draw these conclusions simultaneously. Even more amazingly than that, at the same time, silver investors figured that this warranted triple the drop in silver.

It's not that China's ebb caused this big drop, I think it's more that investors feed off the negative outlook and exaggerate the swings.

[osoab]

Looking through today's news.... What is with the big drop? I cannot seem to find it.

All time highs in S&P, Nasdaq, and Dow 30. Good times are rolling. :cool:

[Sparky]

If I wasn't as seasoned, I would be amazed that gold is floundering as the fate of the European Union lies in the balance. If Greece defaults, the EU is going to be scrambling, and it's going to put the whole global debt crisis on center stage. Very favorable for gold.

If the EU allows a debt extension for Greece (very likely scenario), it will relieve all of the short term pressure. Ultimately, this compounds the pressure at some future date. Very favorable for gold in the long run, but unfavorable for price in the short run.

I think what we're seeing is anticipation of the most likely kick-the-can scenario. But even under this scenario, with gold falling hard today, I'm wondering if we'll see a "sell the news" scenario, which in this case means "stop selling off gold" once the debt-relief announcement is made (or perhaps a day or two later). Stay tuned.

[madfranks]

Silver down $0.36 today so far. I laid down a couple grand on a big silver buy yesterday, and I knew, knew, knew, that it would drop as soon as I bought. And yet somehow I still pulled the trigger. My timing sucks!

[EE_]

Silver down $0.36 today so far. I laid down a couple grand on a big silver buy yesterday, and I knew, knew, knew, that it would drop as soon as I bought. And yet somehow I still pulled the trigger. My timing sucks!

What did you expect with the economy fully healed, everyone working, stock market breaking records daily, housing passing the previous peak, car sales best in history, cheap gasoline, low interest rates and everyone traveling. I've never seen a better economy in my life.
Precious metals no longer make sense.

[ximmy]

My dealer is mostly sold out of silver... only has some generic bullion and some SAE's. No junk silver or silver dollars.

[Hitch]

Guys, don't forget the big picture. Madfranks, great time to buy silver right now. Don't worry about this little dip. When silver is $100 an ounce, prices today will be laughable.

Count your metals in ounces, not dollars. Physical, in hand, is the goal. For God's sake, don't even think about selling now either.

[madfranks]

Guys, don't forget the big picture. Madfranks, great time to buy silver right now. Don't worry about this little dip. When silver is $100 an ounce, prices today will be laughable.

Count your metals in ounces, not dollars. Physical, in hand, is the goal. For God's sake, don't even think about selling now either.

Good point, but it still sucks to see the price drop right after a buy.

[JohnQPublic]

What did you expect with the economy fully healed, everyone working, stock market breaking records daily, housing passing the previous peak, car sales best in history, cheap gasoline, low interest rates and everyone traveling. I've never seen a better economy in my life.
Precious metals no longer make sense.

Be happy as long as this lasts. Gives you more time to purchase at low prices, and to have the money to do it! Everyone sure thinks the economy is great, and that is part of actually getting it going. If people start spending, borrowing (especially this), etc., then the bubble can keep growing.

[Hitch]

Be happy as long as this lasts. Gives you more time to purchase at low prices, and to have the money to do it! Everyone sure thinks the economy is great, and that is part of actually getting it going. If people start spending, borrowing (especially this), etc., then the bubble can keep growing.

EE can be a bit sarcastic, great sense of humor though. He's basically pointing out the "illusion" that has been created.

He knows, we all do on this site, that there's a big bubble going to be bursting soon.

[Spectrism]

When silver gets to $13.21 start buying as much as you can with your "extra" money. Other preps like food, water supply, power, shelter, etc... are a better priority if you are hunkered down. Silver can help if you need to barter or travel, but it will be a hidden marketplace and dangerous... after the new regulations come into being.

[Spectrism]

I am hoping prices of PMs will continue downward. This must happen for a while to shake loose the confidence some speculators have in the metals. As that happens, you will (not) see the rich and strong hands gobbling them up. If you have all your food and security preps in order, you might start to look at cost averaging with the downward moves. Unfortunately, supply will become a real issue. What good is a low price if there is none to be had?

Remember the phrase: doom is always 6 months away? Sorry, but it is now only 2 months away. Act accordingly.

[Sparky]

Just taking a moment here to reflect on the brutal 4-year beating that the price of gold has taken. At $1142 this morning, it's threatening the $1137 low of November 2014. Below that, we have to look all the way back to April of 2010.

No need for a pep talk, as nothing's changed. Interestingly, the price action came dangerously close to bubble characteristics as it rose from $1150 (roughly our current price) to $1920 (+67%) in just over a year's time, from Summer 2010 to Summer 2011. Only the lack of mainstream participation (i.e. co-workers, neighbors, and family relatives telling you about their gold investments) has me convinced that it wasn't in fact a bubble. However, the frothy price action during that period has necessitated this long downward grind.

Perhaps the $1137 needs to be taken out. There's plenty of talk about breaching $1000, which is good to hear. If you understand how market sentiment works, then you'll know why that's a good thing.

Regardless, it's been a tough haul. I remember commenting years ago on the previous forum that the frothy rise was going to require a big shakeout, similar to what happened in 1975-76 in the midst of the last gold bull. It was shocking to see how dramatic a plunge was needed to shake out the weak hands (see Spectrim's previous post on the shaking of weak hands), and I suggested that a similarly astonishing fall was going to be required during this bull as well. I conjectured that it was going to test even the most fervent gold believers. I'm surprised at the long duration. But that's what it takes: surprising even the strong hands who were expecting it.

No need to talk about price manipulation either. We get it. It doesn't matter. It's all built in to the process. So here we are.

[gunDriller]

Wow ! Palladium @ $639,

Palladium, on the way up in 2010. On the way down in 2015.

Briefly spiked down to $600-ish in 2013.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd2010.gif

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd2015.gif


I looked up cost of production for Pd. $560-ish for one large miner.

[madfranks]

Looks like silver is about to break $15 on the downside again. That's OK with me, I'm not quite ready to make my next big buy yet.

[osoab]

Wow ! Palladium @ $639,

Palladium, on the way up in 2010. On the way down in 2015.

Briefly spiked down to $600-ish in 2013.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd2010.gif

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd2015.gif


I looked up cost of production for Pd. $560-ish for one large miner.

I'm thinking palladium is only being dragged down by platinum.

Platinum has taken a beating.

[gunDriller]

I'm thinking palladium is only being dragged down by platinum.

Platinum has taken a beating.

When I do a web search for Platinum mining costs, it tends to come in around $1200 - or more.

Also most Platinum mines mine Platinum as their primary output.

With Silver it is often 'diluted', so they continue mining Silver, even when the price falls below mining cost.
Obviously it depends on the mine.

I think the shortages that are being created RIGHT NOW are going to create some spectacular price activity.


In a few of Rick Rule's last interviews at KWN, he elaborates on this - the effects of selling precious metals below cost.

[Sparky]

Just taking a moment here to reflect on the brutal 4-year beating that the price of gold has taken. At $1142 this morning, it's threatening the $1137 low of November 2014. Below that, we have to look all the way back to April of 2010.

...

Smashed the $1137 this morning. If we stay below that number into today's close, then brace for $1000 gold and $12 silver.

[Sparky]

Stunning $52 plunge to $1080 in Asia tonight, followed by a $30 bounce. All those predictions of $1000 gold are starting to look pretty good.

[madfranks]

Sub $1000 gold and sub $10 silver?

[EE_]

Sub $1000 gold and sub $10 silver?

I would think much lower now that the economy has fully recovered, Greece is set to recover, Iran deal done, China is growing again, drought is put on hold for another year in California, interest rates set to rise, no inflation, election year coming up and stocks on a tear. Sell PM's and buy stocks and real estate!

I watch CNBC too...

[gunDriller]

I would think much lower now that the economy has fully recovered, Greece is set to recover, Iran deal done, China is growing again, drought is put on hold for another year in California, interest rates set to rise, no inflation, election year coming up and stocks on a tear. Sell PM's and buy stocks and real estate!

I watch CNBC too...


told you we can trust Obama /sarc

[Spectrism]

Another $1.50 drop in silver to about $13.21 and it will be time to buy what you can find. I prefer the govt minted coins because they are easier to check for true silver vs fakes. As we go into a severe depression that can no longer be papered over, there is no telling just what will happen to prices of anything. When few have money only a few make up the market. You have to know which comes first: destruction of currency value or evaporation of money supply.

[Sparky]

Interestingly, after dropping 38 cents overnight, silver has rebounded above Friday's closing price.

[Spectrism]

It dipped below $14.... let's see if it can go under for a while. We need to see it there for at least a couple weeks to bring physical price down. Big assumption- that metal will actually be available.

[Spectrism]

I am hoping prices of PMs will continue downward. This must happen for a while to shake loose the confidence some speculators have in the metals. As that happens, you will (not) see the rich and strong hands gobbling them up. If you have all your food and security preps in order, you might start to look at cost averaging with the downward moves. Unfortunately, supply will become a real issue. What good is a low price if there is none to be had?

Remember the phrase: doom is always 6 months away? Sorry, but it is now only 2 months away. Act accordingly.


Everything still on schedule.... including the doom.

[madfranks]

It dipped below $14.... let's see if it can go under for a while. We need to see it there for at least a couple weeks to bring physical price down. Big assumption- that metal will actually be available.

Spot silver's down about 50 cents, but I just called my coin shop and premiums happened to jump 50 cents. So for physical, it's a wash.

[monty]

Provident Metals and J M Bullion prices are about the same as they have been since spring, one ounce rounds 16.27 at Provident and 16.34 at J M Bullion. 500 ounces or more 15.34 cash price.

[Neuro]

Provident Metals and J M Bullion prices are about the same as they have been since spring, one ounce rounds 16.27 at Provident and 16.34 at J M Bullion. 500 ounces or more 15.34 cash price.
No huge premiums, yet, probably has some time to go until rock bottom!

[madfranks]

Provident Metals and J M Bullion prices are about the same as they have been since spring, one ounce rounds 16.27 at Provident and 16.34 at J M Bullion. 500 ounces or more 15.34 cash price.

If you happen to have a spare $7670 burning a hole in your pocket, that's about as good as you can do.

[ximmy]

Provident Metals and J M Bullion prices are about the same as they have been since spring, one ounce rounds 16.27 at Provident and 16.34 at J M Bullion. 500 ounces or more 15.34 cash price.

Today Provident metals is lowest its ever been in years. I mark the low price points.

[monty]

If you happen to have a spare $7670 burning a hole in your pocket, that's about as good as you can do.


I wish I had. I bought a monster box of Prospector rounds last March for 8200 from Provident.

[gunDriller]

I wish I had. I bought a monster box of Prospector rounds last March for 8200 from Provident.

That's $16.40 each - That's still a great price.


Personally, I like seeing the Gold Silver ratio so high.

I think on the other end, 35:1 is a reasonable ratio (when prices are inflated like in 2011).


When guys like Eric Sprott & David Morgan talk about the Ratio, they usually end up mentioning historical patterns like 20:1 or lower.


Does anybody have a suggestion for intersection of mining industry/ Precious metal type websites ?

I like Mineweb.com.

The silver industry has a wierd cost structure, so they will sit there and run a mine below the cost of production - for some mines.


Anyway, info about the effect of these manipulated non-market prices on Ag production, just one of those things I like to read about.

[monty]

I would guess since silver is a by product in many mines the actual marketwide production cost would be difficult to calculate.

[gunDriller]

I would guess since silver is a by product in many mines the actual marketwide production cost would be difficult to calculate.

Difficult is the right word. Tedious also comes to mind.


Most of the Silver miners publish cost information.

What I would like to find is that aggregate cost information - 50 tons for $11 an ounce here, 30 tons for $21 an ounce there -
and develop simple percentiles.

So if Silver is $14.25, we could look up and say, "oh, that's below cost of production for 35% of miners. and 63% of miners have production costs below $14.25. 2 have costs right at $14.25, they account for whatever (call it 63 tons.)"


I suspect this is the kind of information (for Gold) that goes into the Gold Yearbook (Eric Christian's CPM group).

I'm pretty sure guys like Rick Rule (manages mining investments for Sprott) could provide a good back-of-envelope summary, and have access to the detailed numbers.

But I would like for the Mining Media to do the work, and publish it semi-free in their ad-supported media.

[Spectrism]

Silver price -as stock prices, is manipulated by financial players. If we had a true marketplace, we would see factors of supply, demand and anticipated changes. I think supply is in trouble and we will soon see shortfalls. But I also see a growing threat of world war and a global control system pushing for digital muny for all transactions being made the law of the world.

In the next world war, nukes WILL fly and millions of people will be killed outright with many millions more dying slowly. People of the commoner class won't have interest in gold or silver. They will just scrape along for food and shelter. We are entering the days of Jacobs Trouble and days of torment for all survivors. When? The unfolding schedule is not clear to see. I think we will have a little time to use our preps. We need to be ready to walk (or run) away from everything we have. A hidden supply cache or two might be a good idea. Silver coins could make a good barter item for some times ahead. But expect the devils to make PMs and stored food illegal. Informers will be rewarded.

[madfranks]

Silver down $0.57 currently, almost 4%. What's the deal?

[ximmy]

Premiums are up on Britannia and Philharmonics. Spot is .25 lower than when I bought, but prices are 1.00 higher.

[madfranks]

Premiums are up on Britannia and Philharmonics. Spot is .25 lower than when I bought, but prices are 1.00 higher.

The silver bars I've been focusing on are currently $4.99 per oz over spot. That's a premium of over 25%.

[Sparky]

Everything sold off today. Except U.S. Treasuries.

This looks like a continuation of deflation that is ultimately going to launch more money printing and negative interest rates. It's a question of time. Money going into U.S. Treasuries means that's where faith remains.

Martin Armstrong's long awaited turning point of "peak faith in government" is Wednesday/Thursday of this week. Let's see if anything noteworthy happens.

[Neuro]

Everything sold off today. Except U.S. Treasuries.

This looks like a continuation of deflation that is ultimately going to launch more money printing and negative interest rates. It's a question of time. Money going into U.S. Treasuries means that's where faith remains.

Martin Armstrong's long awaited turning point of "peak faith in government" is Wednesday/Thursday of this week. Let's see if anything noteworthy happens.
If everything is sold off it would suggest inflation rather than deflation no? Anyway, yes I agree it looks like Martin Armstrongs prediction is going to play out. Simultaneous crash in confidence of USD and Treasury Bonds perhaps? That could get fugly!

[Neuro]

If everything is sold off it would suggest inflation rather than deflation no? Anyway, yes I agree it looks like Martin Armstrongs prediction is going to play out. Simultaneous crash in confidence of USD and Treasury Bonds perhaps? That could get fugly!
The question is where would money go? PM's, mining, oil and food-producer stocks?

[Sparky]

If everything is sold off it would suggest inflation rather than deflation no? Anyway, yes I agree it looks like Martin Armstrongs prediction is going to play out. Simultaneous crash in confidence of USD and Treasury Bonds perhaps? That could get fugly!
No, a selloff suggests deflation. Asset prices going down. But they are still WAY up.

In the deflation/inflation debate, I think the winner is deflation-then-inflation. For over a year, deflation has been going on in non-agricultural commodities, and in non-U.S. real estate. To get to the inflation stage, it will first have to impact U.S. real estate and equities. It may take a while for that to play out.

[madfranks]

With today's red, gold is now under $1100 and silver is under $15 again. I can't help but wonder if we'll see sub $1000 gold, it's been many years since I've seen that.

I've been buying a lot of silver under $15, I can't help myself, within the next decade I see it easily doubling or more.

[Sparky]

With today's red, gold is now under $1100 and silver is under $15 again. I can't help but wonder if we'll see sub $1000 gold, it's been many years since I've seen that.

I've been buying a lot of silver under $15, I can't help myself, within the next decade I see it easily doubling or more.

It is amazing how many price "bottoms" have been declared, only to see new ones established. If the latest bottom of $1078 in July gets re-visited, I can easily see $1000 being breached. I'm okay with tolerating that because it doesn't alter the long term picture, but I'm getting impatient and would like to just get it over with!

P.S. For the record, the interim silver low was $14.23 on September 15.

[ximmy]

With today's red, gold is now under $1100 and silver is under $15 again. I can't help but wonder if we'll see sub $1000 gold, it's been many years since I've seen that.

I've been buying a lot of silver under $15, I can't help myself, within the next decade I see it easily doubling or more.


me too... In a couple years I want to do something fun with the extra dough.

[Sparky]

It is amazing how many price "bottoms" have been declared, only to see new ones established. If the latest bottom of $1078 in July gets re-visited, I can easily see $1000 being breached. I'm okay with tolerating that because it doesn't alter the long term picture, but I'm getting impatient and would like to just get it over with!

P.S. For the record, the interim silver low was $14.23 on September 15.
$1074 this morning, breaching the July low, followed by a sharp rebound, and now a fade. If the price continues to struggle here, it points at sub-$1000. If so, I hope it's quick, as in a lead-up to the Dec 15-16 Fed meeting. Gold is either waiting for the long-awaited interest rate move, or the lack thereof. Either way, it's a logical pivot point.

Silver $14.15 this morning, also breaching its interim low.

[madfranks]

$1074 this morning, breaching the July low, followed by a sharp rebound, and now a fade. If the price continues to struggle here, it points at sub-$1000. If so, I hope it's quick, as in a lead-up to the Dec 15-16 Fed meeting. Gold is either waiting for the long-awaited interest rate move, or the lack thereof. Either way, it's a logical pivot point.

Silver $14.15 this morning, also breaching its interim low.

I have been paying closer attention to silver. Unfortunately, as spot price falls, premiums for physical rise. Right now the bars I'm chasing are almost $5 over spot at Apmex.

[Neuro]

Another $1.50 drop in silver to about $13.21 and it will be time to buy what you can find. I prefer the govt minted coins because they are easier to check for true silver vs fakes. As we go into a severe depression that can no longer be papered over, there is no telling just what will happen to prices of anything. When few have money only a few make up the market. You have to know which comes first: destruction of currency value or evaporation of money supply.
We just have to admit that the Federal reserve has played this market masterfully so far, still they are in total control. No doubt, sooner or later the wheels will start falling off but it is amazing they have kept the dollar this strong for so long!

[Sparky]

$1074 this morning, breaching the July low, followed by a sharp rebound, and now a fade. If the price continues to struggle here, it points at sub-$1000. If so, I hope it's quick, as in a lead-up to the Dec 15-16 Fed meeting. Gold is either waiting for the long-awaited interest rate move, or the lack thereof. Either way, it's a logical pivot point.

Silver $14.15 this morning, also breaching its interim low.

A 6-year low this morning, with gold dropping below $1050 for the first time since November 2009. Everyone will be aboard the sub-$1000 train now, which ups the chance that a significant breach of $1000 will be necessary for the final flush. Maybe Martin Armstrong's first target of ~$900 will be correct. It's better than his lower targets, which are in the $700 range! For silver, which is fickle, this means at least sub-$12, perhaps as low as $10.

Resigned to that, the question becomes timing. I see the December 16 Fed meeting announcement as key. Two scenarios:
1) Gold quickly drops to $900-$1000 before then, and the Fed meeting becomes the trigger (finally) for the turnaround.
2) Gold languishes $1000-$1050 until the Fed meeting, and the Fed announcement triggers the final plunge.

I had been thinking the former, but now I think the latter. Quite a painful ride for goldbugs, but this is what it takes to flush the market and discourage the last clingers-on. Having resigned to the price pain ahead in the near- to medium-term, I see no change to the longer term outlook, which is a multi-year run to $3200. Pessimistically, this run may not start until after there's a new president in office.

[madfranks]

A 6-year low this morning, with gold dropping below $1050 for the first time since November 2009. Everyone will be aboard the sub-$1000 train now, which ups the chance that a significant breach of $1000 will be necessary for the final flush. Maybe Martin Armstrong's first target of ~$900 will be correct. It's better than his lower targets, which are in the $700 range! For silver, which is fickle, this means at least sub-$12, perhaps as low as $10.

Resigned to that, the question becomes timing. I see the December 16 Fed meeting announcement as key. Two scenarios:
1) Gold quickly drops to $900-$1000 before then, and the Fed meeting becomes the trigger (finally) for the turnaround.
2) Gold languishes $1000-$1050 until the Fed meeting, and the Fed announcement triggers the final plunge.

I had been thinking the former, but now I think the latter. Quite a painful ride for goldbugs, but this is what it takes to flush the market and discourage the last clingers-on. Having resigned to the price pain ahead in the near- to medium-term, I see no change to the longer term outlook, which is a multi-year run to $3200. Pessimistically, this run may not start until after there's a new president in office.

If gold breaches $1000 on the downside, it'll crash to sub-$900 very quickly. The $1000 floor is a very significant price and if it breaks, look out below!

[ximmy]

If gold breaches $1000 on the downside, it'll crash to sub-$900 very quickly. The $1000 floor is a very significant price and if it breaks, look out below!


spot and purchase price will spread.

It's already showing on platinum & palladium. The purchase prices are refusing to go lower.... at this time.

[Neuro]

If gold breaches $1000 on the downside, it'll crash to sub-$900 very quickly. The $1000 floor is a very significant price and if it breaks, look out below!
The Chinese got snubbed by the Indians on 200 tons of IMF gold 5 years or so ago, at $1040/ounce. Below this price the Chinese will buy everything for sale. So I think this is the bottom.

[madfranks]

Silver up $0.41 today so far. I wonder if we're heading back into the $15 zone, or is this just a temporary bump?

I made my latest silver purchase with spot at $13.87, which is darn near close to the recent low. I've never once actually timed the market perfectly, but just this once I'd be happy if I did!

[madfranks]

Metals up dramatically again today. Gold up over $35, silver up $0.30, now closer to $16 than $15!

[gunDriller]

That's IT ! I'm selling all my holdings !

[madfranks]

Will silver break $16 on the upside today?

[osoab]

Will silver break $16 on the upside today?

Looks like it did.

They knocked the dog crap out of gold last week while wilver really held its own.

Is the gold rise due to the "dovish" Fed statement?