Flat Earthers Won't Go Away

[monty]

So we are supposed to trust the Russians?

John McCain does.

Why, when I traveled from Reno, Nevada approx. 34° N latitude to Rancagua, Chile approx 34° S latitude did the constellations and the moon appear to be upside in Chile?

[osoab]

John McCain does.

Why, when I traveled from Reno, Nevada approx. 34° N latitude to Rancagua, Chile approx 34° S latitude did the constellations and the moon appear to be upside in Chile?

That is due to you viewing from mirrored angles from 90 degrees.

The flipped image you saw is more indicative of FE. If the earth was a ball, you would see the same image.


http://henrymakow.com/upload_images/Map%20Sun%20Moon%20flat%20earth.jpg

[Glass]

I always find this persons writings entertaining. She pulls together a nice mix of old/ancient material and clues or references that appear in contemporary published media. Books, movies, advertisements, bread and circus distractions.

my thoughts on what she wrote:
Looking to the center of the earth and considering that the North pole is the true path to Eden/heaven. Considering what clues are embedded in published material, old and new.
http://rosettedelacroix.com/?p=5455

We seen this map of the North pole before: Mercator’s map
http://i2.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/3efe1fb2730604930d74cb3e5d64f723.jpg?w=564

A maps is a drawing to suit a purpose. "Fictional" books sometimes contain maps e.g. Lord of the Rings. Pirates of the Caribbean. Wizard of Oz.

http://i0.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/d8f066caab3c2bb71ed19dd3080e5e3b.jpg?w=736
Notice the Yellow Brick road in the second map is mirrored by a kind of barbers pole path in the first map. I wonder if it spirals?

Mercator claims the Tower at the Centre of the earth is surrounded by a whirlpool fed by 4 inflowing rivers. The whirlpool concept is interesting. I recall in a Pirates of the Caribbean - at world end.... they had to brave a whirlpool in order to save Jack Sparrow. (the Black bird).

He had a compass, that didn't seem to point to the North Pole.....

Whirlpool appliances. Interesting logo. I now it is supposed to symbolize the action of the machine... but still.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Whirlpool_Corporation_logo.svg/220px-Whirlpool_Corporation_logo.svg.png
its a little bit like ying and yang
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Yin_yang.svg/260px-Yin_yang.svg.png

Chinese Zodiac - Arc of the Zoo - Noahs Arc filled with animals
http://i2.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/chinese_zodiac.gif?resize=400%2C400


Looking at Osabs image of the FE + sun and moon path.

I wonder if the suns path could be some kind of spiral? Isn't the earth moving in a spiral according to asto science?

I've always thought it odd, looking at space station satellite paths overlaid on an earth map how they have this strange trajectory. A sort of sin wave path. The sunlight / darkness areas remind me of the way a baseball is stitched and it doesn't make sense. Perhaps its because the sun doesn't have a circular path but a spiral path?

If Jesus is the Sun and he said: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" and we should follow his path to heaven/eden.

Perhaps it is a golden Sun light path? That leads to the centre. Where Jesus the sun and /God the father are located.
http://i0.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/emeraldcity.jpg?resize=768%2C512

Remember that the Green lights come from the North Pole. Aurora Borealis.
In the Pirates of the Caribbean movie where they rescued Jack Sparrow - At Worlds End. They went down the Whirlpool to some strange land. To get back they had to turn everything upside down exactly at Sunset. There was a flash of green lights in the sky and they were back in the "real world".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNj8mJq65i4
Is the "End" In at worlds End supposed to be an anagram for Eden?

Jesus siting at the center of a round table. 4 groups of 3 Disciples around the round table.
http://i1.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Leonardo_da_Vinci-The_Last_Supper.jpg?resize=768%2C421

King Arthur - King Archer - Sagitarius the Archer.
http://i2.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ARC_7_01206_1.jpg?resize=600%2C600

War of the Roses.

The yellow brick road ends in a spiral
http://i0.wp.com/rosettedelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/yelli.jpg?w=440

Is there a dark tower, A rock tower, a mountain, a castle at the center of the earth, rising up into the heavens. Was it a stone tree (there are no trees on earth) that was cut or severed? The word Castle means Mountain (of stone). Does this tower exist. Does it reach somewhere above us. Was it the Tree of Life?

Was jack and the beanstalk and allegory for the cutting the tree of life.

Much more here: http://rosettedelacroix.com/?p=5455

And here: http://rosettedelacroix.com/?p=5400

I know some of this seems "fruity" but the write has noticed quite a few more correlating references than I thought there could be. Makes for interesting reading in any event.

Have you ever wondered about that movie "Journey to the Center of the Earth." In which direction do you think they were traveling in relation to our world? Do you think they were traveling to it or from it?

[Bigjon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q)

4 video's not.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24

North pole and South pole 2 different sky charts that can't be seen without traveling from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere.

[Glass]

Attempt to video distance over water at the 7.6 Mile long Florida Barge Canal. Attempt at Bedford experiment for earth curvature or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pzviaeXnvo

conditions possibly demonstrate refraction at distance brings objects above surface. At least that is what it looks like. Not sure how far down - edit - how far away the structures are when looking from ocean end, if at the bridge 4.8 miles away or if closer or further.

Another YT'er discovered who is looking into this. Filming to horizon over water. Appears to have clearer results debunking upward refraction as apparently seen in the above video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6mjnUdrxs

Tide variance?

Channel here: https://www.youtube.com/user/bmlsb/videos

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1469/85/1469855749281.jpg

[Glass]

Shaquille Oneil.... there's a Pi in my Eye

So, apparently Shaquille O'Neal is a flat-Earther, too


It’s true. The Earth is flat. The Earth is flat. Yes, it is. Listen, there are three ways to manipulate the mind — what you read, what you see and what you hear. In school, first thing they teach us is, ‘Oh, Columbus discovered America,’ but when he got there, there were some fair-skinned people with the long hair smoking on the peace pipes. So, what does that tell you? Columbus didn’t discover America. So, listen, I drive from coast to coast, and this s*** is flat to me. I’m just saying. I drive from Florida to California all the time, and it’s flat to me. I do not go up and down at a 360-degree angle, and all that stuff about gravity, have you looked outside Atlanta lately and seen all these buildings? You mean to tell me that China is under us? China is under us? It’s not. The world is flat.”


Of course the big issue is really GroupThink.

"It leads their fanbases to consider ridiculous ideas and possibly consider ridiculous ideas to be true," Muller says. "Obviously, these people have god-like reputations among some of their fans. They’re clearly prominent, and even if you don’t fully believe them, it definitely raises the visibility of the claims. In the long term, it does damage because you have a group of people who don’t know what to believe. When you don’t have those established consensuses, the world makes bad decisions."

Not fact, consensus. Like herd immunity. Consensus. Like global warming. Consensus. Like Muslims did 9/11. Consensus. 3 x 4 =11. Consensus

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/0152/files/shaq.jpg


Shaquille ONeal = 74 (rev reduced)
Flat earth Theory = 74 (reduced)

Shaquille ONeal = 227 (rev ordinal)
Earth = 227 (satanic)

227 = Pi

I don't know why he swallowed a Pi. But I'm sure he's sharing it with his brothers.

[Neuro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU

This video really clinches it, only an absolute moron would argue the earth is flat after watching it. ABSOLUTE!

[StreetsOfGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl38zeHmTIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlorWx-fkCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCKvBn2iwqk

[StreetsOfGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwnmXKL14g

[Bigjon]

If you want to believe that all of the stars move while the Earth remains stationary, believe away.

You are a moron, but there is room on the planet for morons.

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfprD5OVtPU

Mamboni can take this posh flight and report back to us.

:(??

[Neuro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfprD5OVtPU

Mamboni can take this posh flight and report back to us.

:(??


Him being in the extreme physical health he claims to be in, and abundant financial resources, I think he should be challenged to traverse the Antarctic continent, or prove that it is impossible, due to the ice wall, which he will provide photographic evidence of... He has about 8-9 months to prepare for the expedition.

How about it Mamboni, Christmas at the 'south pole'?

[Jewboo]

Him being in the extreme physical health he claims to be in, and abundant financial resources, I think he should be challenged to traverse the Antarctic continent, or prove that it is impossible, due to the ice wall, which he will provide photographic evidence of... He has about 8-9 months to prepare for the expedition.

How about it Mamboni, Christmas at the 'south pole'?

Hereby formally challenged.

:)

[Unrarken10]

Flat earth it's very interesting topic but what are you think about redoctobermsz? In this teory we live inside earth

[Glass]

Flat earth it's very interesting topic but what are you think about redoctobermsz? In this teory we live inside earth

I pondered the story called "Journey to the center of the Earth"

I wondered which direction the travelers in that story where heading relative to us.... our world. To it or From it?

Then there was that explorer people talk about who found a hole at the northpole or something and flew inside and saw another world. Can't remember who it was. Were they from our world going somewhere else or from another world coming to this world.

Have you heard the story. .. The Pirate Planet?

Anyway, interesting to think about but nothing too serious.

[Bigjon]

I pondered the story called "Journey to the center of the Earth"

I wondered which direction the travelers in that story where heading relative to us.... our world. To it or From it?

Then there was that explorer people talk about who found a hole at the northpole or something and flew inside and saw another world. Can't remember who it was. Were they from our world going somewhere else or from another world coming to this world.

Have you heard the story. .. The Pirate Planet?

Anyway, interesting to think about but nothing too serious.

Fiction is a place inside our heads where we can go anywhere and do everything.

[Jewboo]

Him being in the extreme physical health he claims to be in, and abundant financial resources, I think he should be challenged to traverse the Antarctic continent, or prove that it is impossible, due to the ice wall, which he will provide photographic evidence of... He has about 8-9 months to prepare for the expedition.

How about it Mamboni, Christmas at the 'south pole'?

What say you Mamboni?

:)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA64E00000578-0-image-a-12_1487942646242.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA66200000578-0-Saunders_spent_ten_years_preparing_for_his_South_P ole_expedition-a-15_1487943479511.jpg



Ben Saunders made history in 2013 when he did the return trip to the South Pole
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
It was the same journey that defeated Captain Robert Falcon Scott and his team (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
He completed the 1,795 mile traverse in 108 days and ran out of food (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)

[Neuro]

What say you Mamboni?

:)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA64E00000578-0-image-a-12_1487942646242.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA66200000578-0-Saunders_spent_ten_years_preparing_for_his_South_P ole_expedition-a-15_1487943479511.jpg



Ben Saunders made history in 2013 when he did the return trip to the South Pole
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
It was the same journey that defeated Captain Robert Falcon Scott and his team (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
He completed the 1,795 mile traverse in 108 days and ran out of food (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)


Best way for Mamboni would be to transverse Antarctica from Scotts hut at Ross sea and then via the South Pole get across almost 180° and emerge at Weddel Sea. That distance would be about 25,000 miles according to flat earth theory map.

[Neuro]

Best way for Mamboni would be to transverse Antarctica from Scotts hut at Ross sea and then via the South Pole get across almost 180° and emerge at Weddel Sea. That distance would be about 25,000 miles according to flat earth theory map.

A Swedish nurse went to South Pole for Christmas in only 38 days, alone on skis...

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/swedish-woman-skis-south-pole-record-time-180961636/

[C.Martel]

Flat earth makes no sense. If the sun goes under the earth, then everyone has night. If it stay on top of the earth, then everyone has daylight. There are different stars for the Northern and Southern Hemisphere, if they are straight up for both north and south, why can't we see the southern cross, the stars are far enough away. To be true, the sun and stars would have to be so close to the earth, like aircraft, not even as far as we believe the moon to be. There would be no heavens, just earth and a dome tv screen above where the airplanes fly.

[KenJackson]

Flat earth makes no sense.
I don't think you'll get an argument here.

What I want to know is why it's easier for some to believe in a flat earth or secret antarctic Nazi bases or (good grief) redoctobermsz than God.

[C.Martel]

I don't think you'll get an argument here.

What I want to know is why it's easier for some to believe in a flat earth or secret antarctic Nazi bases or (good grief) redoctobermsz than God.

Because the jew promotes atheism for the "goyim".

St. John Chrysostom: "Does not greater harm come from this place (the synagogue) since the Jews themselves are demons?"

[PatColo]

2 hrs, haven't listened, not sure I will. But I did listen to Sofia's first FE roundtable, very interesting. Posted it early in this thread.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MOc0rVNjjsU/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=UM8_UabStrxLuGuCG-ZkOTewHjw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOc0rVNjjsU) 2:03:51
Sofia Smallstorm w/Mike Williams, David Weiss & Jeranism - A Flat Earth Discussion (Apr 2017) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOc0rVNjjsU)

4,312 views
5 days ago

[C.Martel]

Why does Australia double in length in the flat earth maps? Isn't that a red flag, proof one way or the other. Wouldn't flat earthers come up with proof of a flat earth saying "Australia's length is about equal to the distance from Spain to Japan, unlike the world map that are promoted by the earth is a sphere crowd which assert it is about half that length". Or something like that.

[KenJackson]

Because the jew promotes atheism for the "goyim".

St. John Chrysostom: "Does not greater harm come from this place (the synagogue) since the Jews themselves are demons?"

From your answer, it's quite clear that you hate Jews. But if you were attempting to respond to the post you quoted, I don't understand it at all.

Many people firmly believe in one or more wacky notions that seem to me to be attempts to answer their need for God. I always wonder why people are willing to bend their minds into a pretzel to avoid faith in the obvious God.

[C.Martel]

From your answer, it's quite clear that you hate Jews. But if you were attempting to respond to the post you quoted, I don't understand it at all.

Many people firmly believe in one or more wacky notions that seem to me to be attempts to answer their need for God. I always wonder why people are willing to bend their minds into a pretzel to avoid faith in the obvious God.

You asked, you got the answer and did not like it. Judeo-masonry and judeo-communism both promote atheism for the "goyim" consumution. These are facts.

Before WWII when you could criticize jews, zionist jew-supporting Winston Churchill said:


International Jews.

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrorist Jews.

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek – all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

Churchill was wrong on one point, Lenin had jewish ancestry and was atheist, like the other jews.

Anyone who wishes to research this could list hundreds and thousands of people saying the jew promotes atheism.

98% of communists in Europe were jews:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEDPOPr7qiY

[KenJackson]

You asked, you got the answer and did not like it. Judeo-masonry and judeo-communism both promote atheism for the goyim. These are facts.

No, that doesn't answer what I'm pondering. In this thread, we're speculating about people who believe in a flat earth. Do "Judeo-masonry" and "judeo-communism", whatever the heck those terms mean, promote a flat earth? Are they primarily responsible for promoting the flat earth? I doubt it. I can't imagine what would prompt a person to forsake the obvious globe, but I think it must be connected with fleeing from God.

There are many more such wacky notions. The really big one is evolution of species. To believe it, they have to ignore probabilities and mutation paths and the mapping of DNA to traits, but many many people will fiercely, even viciously, defend it in a vain attempt to avoid God. (In fact, there's a good chance someone will fiercely defend it in this thread.)

BTW, when you say "Jew" and "Jewish", do you specifically mean a person who descends from Jacob? Or someone who worships God according to the Jewish faith?

[C.Martel]

More on judeo-Freemasonry (for people of good will)


The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)[note 1] was France's first established state sponsored atheistic religion, intended as a replacement for Roman Catholicism during the French Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason


THE JEWS, THE MASONS AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTION

Written by Vladimir Moss

THE JEWS, THE MASONS AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTION

On January 21, 1793 King Louis XVI of France was guillotined. After the execution a huge old man with a long beard who had been prominent in the murdering of priests during the September riots mounted the scaffold, plunged both hands into the king’s blood and sprinkled the people with it, shouting: “People of France! I baptize you in the name of Jacob and Freedom!”[1]

Who was Jacob? There are various theories. Some think it was the ghost of Jacob Molet, the leader of the Templars who was executed by the Catholic Church. Others think it refers to Masons of the Scottish rite who were supporters of the Stuart Jacobites. Others think it was a reference to the Patriarch Jacob’s “struggle with God” in Genesis 32. Some think “Jacob” simply refers to Jewry. So were the French now baptized into the spirit of the Jewish revolution?...

In order to answer this question, we need to go back a little in time, to the Jewish and Masonic origins of the revolution.

The Jews and the Revolution

It was the French revolution that gave the Jews the opportunity to burst through into the forefront of world politics for the first time since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. There were 39,000 of them in France in 1789. Most (half according to one estimate, nine-tenths according to another[2]) were Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazim living in Alsace and Lorraine, which France had acquired under the terms of the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648.

“It is important,” writes Nesta Webster, “to distinguish between these two races of Jews [the Ashkenazi and the Sephardim] in discussing the question of Jewish emancipation at the time of the Revolution. For whilst the Sephardim had shown themselves good citizens and were therefore subject to no persecutions, the Ashkenazim by their extortionate usury and oppressions had made themselves detested by the people, so that rigorous laws were enforced to restrain their rapacity. The discussions that raged in the National Assembly on the subject of the Jewish question related therefore mainly to the Jews of Alsace.”[3]

The eighteenth century had already witnessed some important changes in the relationship between the State and Jewry. In England, the Jews had achieved emancipation de facto, if not de jure. This was helped by the small number of Jews in Britain, and the non-ideological approach of the British government.

It was a different matter on the continent, where a more ideological approach prevailed. In 1782 the Masonic Austrian Emperor Joseph II published his Toleranzpatent, whose purpose was that “all Our subjects without distinction of nationality and religion, once they have been admitted and tolerated in our States, shall participate in common in public welfare,… shall enjoy legal freedom, and encounter no obstacles to any honest way of gaining their livelihood and of increasing general industriousness… Existing laws pertaining to the Jewish nation… are not always compatible with these Our most gracious intentions.” Most restrictions on the Jews were removed, but these new freedoms applied only to the “privileged Jew” – that is, the Jew whom the State found “useful” in some way – and not to the “foreign Jew”. Moreover, even privileged Jews were not granted the right of full citizenship and craft mastership.[4] For Joseph wanted to grant tolerance to the Jews, but not full equality.

As for France, “already, in 1784, the Jews of Bordeaux had been accorded further concessions by Louis XVI; in 1776 all Portuguese Jews had been given religious liberty and the permission to inhabit all parts of the kingdom. The decree of January 28, 1790, conferring on the Jews of Bordeaux the rights of French citizens, put the finishing touch to this scheme of liberation. [The Sephardic Jews of South-West France and papal Avignon, who were already more assimilated than their Ashkenazi co-religionists in Alsace, were given full citizenship in July, 1790.] But the proposal to extend this privilege to the Jews of Alsace evoked a storm of controversy in the Assembly and also violent insurrections amongst the Alsace peasants.”[5]

In their first debate on the subject, on September 28, 1789, they made a further important distinction between the nation and the individuals constituting the nation. Thus Stanislas Comte de Clermont-Tonnerre argued that “there cannot be a nation within a nation”, so “the Jews should be denied everything as a nation but granted everything as individuals.”[6] A separate nation of the Jews could not be allowed to exist within France. For “virtually all – moderates no less than radicals, Dantonists no less than Robespierrists, Christians as well as deists, pantheists, and atheists – held that equality of status in the state they were in their various ways intent on establishing was bound up of necessity with the elimination of all groups, classes, or corporations intermediate (and therefore mediating) between the state itself and the citizen.”[7]

Vital writes: “The immediate issue before the Assembly was the admission of certain semi-pariah classes – among them actors and public executioners – to what came to be termed ‘active citizenship’. It was soon apparent, however, that the issues presented by the Jews were very different. It was apparent, too, that it would make no better sense to examine the Jews’ case in tandem with that of the Protestants. The latter, like the Jews, were non-Catholics, but their national identity was not in doubt, nor, therefore, their right to the new liberties being decreed for all. Whatever else they were, they were Frenchmen. No one in the National Assembly thought otherwise. But were the Jews Frenchmen? If they were not, could they become citizens? The contention of the lead speaker in the debate, Count Stanislaw de Clermont-Tonnerre, was that the argument for granting them full rights of citizenship needed to be founded on the most general principles. Religion was a private affair. The law of the state need not and ought not to impinge upon it. So long as religious obligations were compatible with the law of the state and contravened it in no particular it was wrong to deprive a person, whose conscience required him to assume such religious obligations, of those rights which it was the duty of all citizens qua citizens to assume. One either imposed a national religion by main force, so erasing the relevant clause of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen to which all now subscribed. Or else one allowed everyone the freedom to profess the religious opinion of his choice. Mere tolerance was unacceptable. ‘The system of tolerance, coupled.. to degrading distinctions, is so vicious in itself, that he who is compelled to tolerate remains as dissatisfied with the law as is he whom it has granted no more than such a form of tolerance.’ There was no middle way. The enemies of the Jews attacked them, and attacked him, Clermont-Tonnerre, on the grounds that they were deficient morally. It was also held of the Jews that they were unsociable, that their laws prescribed usury, that they were forbidden to mix with the French by marriage or at table or join them in defence of the country or in any other common enterprise. But these reproaches were either unjust or specious. Usury was blameworthy beyond a doubt, but it was the laws of France that had compelled the Jews to practise it. And so with most of the other charges. Once the Jews had title to land and a country of their own the practice of usury would cease. So would the unsociability that was held against them. So would much of their religious eccentricity [ces travers religieux]. As for the further argument, that they had judges and laws of their own, why so they did, and on this matter he, Clermont-Tonnerre, would say to his critics (coming to the passage in his address to the Assembly that would be quoted over and over again in the course of the two centuries that followed), that that indeed was impermissible.

“’As a nation the Jews must be denied everything, as individuals they must be granted everything; their judges can no longer be recognized; their recourse must be to our own exclusively; legal protection for the doubtful laws by which Jewish corporate existence is maintained must end; they cannot be allowed to create a political body or a separate order within the state; it is necessary that they be citizens individually.’

“There remained the question, what if, as some argued, it was the case that the Jews themselves had no interest in citizenship? Why in that case, he went on, ‘if they do not want it, let them say so, in which case expel them [s’ils veulent ne l’être pas, qu’ils le disent, et alors, qu’on les bannisse]’. The idea of a society of non-citizens within the state and a nation within a nation was repugnant to him. But in fact, the speaker concluded, that was not at all what the Jews wanted. The evidence was to the contrary. They wished to be incorporated into the nation of France.

“Clermont-Tonnerre was promptly contradicted on this last, vital point by the abbé Maury. The term ‘Jew’, said the abbé, did not denote a religious sect, but a nation, one which had laws which it had always followed and by which it wished to continue to abide. ‘To proclaim the Jews citizens would be as if to say that, without letters of naturalization and without ceasing to be English or Danish, Englishmen and Danes could become Frenchmen.’ But Maury’s chief argument was of a moral and social order. The Jews were inherently undesirable, socially as well as economically. They had been chased out of France, and then recalled, no less than seven times – chased out by avarice, as Voltaire had rightly put it, readmitted by avarice once more, but in foolishness as well.

“’The Jews have passed seventeen centuries without mingling with the other nations. They have never engaged in anything but trade in money; they have been the plague of the agricultural provinces; not one of them has ever dignified [su ennoblir] his hands by driving a plough. Their laws leave them no time for agriculture; the Sabbath apart, they celebrate fifty-six more festivals than the Christians in each year. In Poland they possess an entire province. Well, then! While the sweat of Christian slaves waters the furrows in which the Jews’ opulence germinates they themselves, as their fields are cultivated, engage in weighing their ducats and calculating how much they can shave off the coinage without exposing themselves to legal penalties.’

“They have never been labourers, Maury continued, not even under David and Solomon. And even then they were notorious for their laziness. Their sole concern was commerce. Would you make soldiers of them, the abbé asked. If you did, you would derive small benefit from them: they have a horror of celibacy and they marry young. He knew of no general who would wish to command an army of Jews either on the Sabbath – a day on which they never gave battle – or indeed at any other time. Or did the Assembly imagine that they could make craftsmen of them when their many festivals and sabbath days presented an insurmountable obstacle to such an enterprise. The Jews held 12 million mortgages in Alsace alone, he informed his colleagues. Within a month of their being granted citizenship they would own half the province outright. In ten years’ time they would have ‘conquered’ all of it, reducing it to nothing more than a Jewish colony – upon which the hatred the people of Alsace already bore for the Jews would explode.

“It was not that he, Maury, wished the Jews to be persecuted. ‘They are men, they are our brothers; anathema on whoever speaks of intolerance!’ Nor need their religious opinions disturb anyone [!!!]. He joined all others in agreeing that they were to be protected. But that did not mean that they could be citizens. It was as individuals that they were entitled to protection, not as Frenchmen.

“Robespierre took the opposite line, supporting Clermont-Tonnerre. All who fulfilled the generally applicable conditions of eligibility to citizenship were entitled to the rights that derived from it, he argued, including the right to hold public office. And so far as the facts were concerned, much of what Maury had said about the Jews was ‘infinitely exaggerated’ and contrary to known history. Moreover, to charge the Jews themselves with responsibility for their own persecution at the hands of others, was absurd.

“’Vices are imputed to them… But to whom should these vices be imputed if not to ourselves for our injustice?… Let us restore them to happiness, to country [patrie], and to virtue by restoring them to the dignity of men and citizens; let us reflect that it can never be politic, whatever anyone might say, to condemn a multitude of men who live among us to degradation and oppression.’”[8]

Thus spoke the man who was soon to lead the most degrading and oppressive régime in European history to that date. Indeed, it is striking how those who spoke most fervently for the Jews – apart from leaders of the Jewish community such as the banker Cerfbeer and Isaac Beer – were Freemasons or Illuminati.

Thus in the two years before the crucial debate on September 27, 1791, writes General Nechvolodov, “fourteen attempts were made to give the Jews civic equality and thirty-five major speeches were given by several orators, among them Mirabeau, Robespierre, Abbé Grégoire, Abbé Sièyes, Camille, Desmoulins, Vernier, Barnave, Lameth, Duport and others.

“’Now there is a singular comparison to be made,’ says Abbé Lemann, ‘- all the names which we have just cited and which figure in the Moniteur as having voted for the Jews are also found on the list of Masons… Is this coincidence not proof of the order given, in the lodges of Paris, to work in favour of Jewish emancipation?’

“And yet, in spite of the revolutionary spirit, the National Assembly was very little inclined to give equality of civil rights to the Jews. Against this reform there rose up all the deputies from Alsace, since it was in Alsace that the majority of the French Jews of that time lived….

“But this opposition in the National Assembly did not stop the Jews. To attain their end, they employed absolutely every means.

“According to Abbé Lemann, these means were the following:

“First means: entreaty. A charm exercised over several presidents of the Assembly. Second: the influence of gold. Third means: logic. After the National Assembly had declared the ‘rights of man’, the Jews insisted that these rights should logically be applied to them, and they set out their ideas on this subject with an ‘implacable arrogance’.

“Fourth means: recourse to the suburbs and the Paris Commune, so as to force the National Assembly under ‘threat of violence’ to give the Jews equality.

“’One of their most thorough historians (Graetz),’ says Abbé Lemann, ‘did not feel that he had to hide this manoeuvre. Exhausted, he says, by the thousand useless efforts they had made to obtain civil rights, they thought up a last means. Seeing that it was impossible to obtain by reason and common sense what they called their rights, they resolved to force the National Assembly to approve of their emancipation.

“’To this end, naturally, were expended vast sums, which served to establish the ‘Christian Front’ which they wanted.

“’In the session of the National Assembly of January 18, 1791, the Duke de Broglie expressed himself completely openly on this subject: ‘Among them,’ he said, ‘there is one in particular who has acquired an immense fortune at the expense of the State, and who is spending in the town of Paris considerable sums to win supporters of his cause.’ He meant Cerfbeer.

“At the head of the Christian Front created on this occasion were the lawyer Godard and three ecclesiastics: the Abbés Mulot, Bertoliot and Fauchet.

“Abbé Fauchet was a well-known illuminatus, and Abbé Mulot – the president of the all-powerful Paris Commune, with the help of which the Jacobins exerted, at the time desired, the necessary pressure on the National and Legislative Assemblies, and later on the Convention.

“What Gregory, curé of Embermeuil, was for the Jews in the heart of the National Assembly, Abbé Mulot was in the heart of the Commune.

“However, although they were fanatical Jacobins, the members of the Commune were far from agreeing to the propositions of their president that they act in defence of Jewish rights in the National Assembly. It was necessary to return constantly to the attack, naturally with the powerful help of Cerfbeer’s gold and that of the Abbés Fauchet and Bertoliot. This latter declared during a session of the Commune on this question: ‘It was necessary that such a happy and unexpected event as the revolution should come and rejuvenate France… Let us hasten to consign to oblivion the crimes of our fathers.’

“Then, during another session, the lawyer Godard bust into the chamber with fifty armed ‘patriots’ dressed in costumes of the national guard with three-coloured cockades. They were fifty Jews who, naturally provided with money, had made the rounds of the sections of the Paris Commune and of the wards of the town of Paris, talking about recruiting partisans of equality for the Jews. This had its effect. Out of the sixty sections of Paris fifty-nine declared themselves for equality (only the quartier des Halles abstained). Then the Commune addressed the National Assembly with an appeal signed by the Abbés Mulot, Bertoliot, Fauchet and other members, demanding that equality be immediately given to the Jews.

“However, even after that, the National Assembly hesitated in declaring itself in the manner provided. Then, on September 27, the day of the penultimate session of the Assembly before its dissolution, the Jacobin deputy Adrien Duport posed the question of equality for the Jews in a categorical fashion. The Assembly knew Adrien Duport’s personality perfectly. It knew that in a secret meeting of the chiefs of Freemasonry which preceded the revolution, he had insisted on the necessity of resort to a system of terror. The Assembly yielded. There followed a decree signed by Louis XVI granting French Jews full and complete equality of rights…”[9]

However, as many had feared, emancipation created problems. In the late 1790s a new wave of Ashkenazis entered France from Germany, attracted by the superior status their emancipated French brothers now enjoyed. This was to lead to further disturbances in Alsace, which it was left to Napoleon to deal with…

“Nevertheless,” as Paul Johnson writes, “the deed was done. French Jews were now free and the clock could never be turned back. Moreover, emancipation in some form took place wherever the French were able to carry the revolutionary spirit with their arms. The ghettos and Jewish closed quarters were broken into in papal Avignon (1791), Nice (1792) and the Rhineland (1792-3). The spread of the revolution to the Netherlands, and the founding of the Batavian republic, led to Jews being granted full and formal rights by law there (1796). In 1796-8 Napoleon Bonaparte liberated many of the Italian ghettos, French troops, young Jews and local enthusiasts tearing down the crumbling old walls.

“For the first time a new archetype, which had always existed in embryonic form, began to emerge from the shadows: the revolutionary Jew. Clericalists in Italy swore enmity to ‘Gauls, Jacobins and Jews’. In 1793-4 Jewish Jacobins set up a revolutionary regime in Saint Esprit, the Jewish suburb of Bayonne. Once again, as during the Reformation, traditionalists saw a sinister link between the Torah and subversion.”[10]

Or more precisely: the Talmud and subversion. For it was not the Torah that taught the Jews to rebel perpetually against all Gentile power: it was the Talmud, with its institutionalized hatred of all non-Jews.

[C.Martel]

con't


Civil War among the Masons

We have seen that the emancipation of the Jews in 1789-91 was carried out chiefly by the Freemasons. This is hardly surprising, given the Jewish nature of the central Masonic myth and rites. Judaism and Masonry are inter-related and inter-dependent.

The first stage of the Revolution, from 1789 to 1791, was dominated by the Masons, whose numbers had grown at an astonishing rate in the pre-revolutionary years. Adam Zamoyski writes that “there were 104 lodges in France in 1772, 198 by 1776, and a staggering 629 by 1789. Their membership included virtually every grandee, writer, artist, lawyer, soldier or other professional in the country, as well as notable foreigners such as Franklin and Jefferson – some 30,000 people.”[11] “Between 800 and 900 Masonic lodges,” writes Doyle, “were founded in France between 1732 and 1793, two-thirds of them after 1760. Between 1773 and 1779 well over 20,000 members were recruited. Few towns of any consequence were without one or more lodges by the 1780s and, despite several papal condemnations of a deistic cult that had originated in Protestant England, the élite of society flocked to join. Voltaire was drafted in on his last visit to Paris, and it was before the assembled brethren of the Nine Sisters Lodge that he exchanged symbolic embraces with Franklin.”[12]

In 1791 a split began to emerge between the more moderate liberal Masons, the great majority, who had been responsible for liberal reforms like the Declaration of the Rights of Man, and a more violent and revolutionary minority. The split was reflected in the composition of the Convention elected in 1792. It was divided between “Montagnards” (Jacobins) on the left, led by Marat, Danton, Robespierre and the Parisian delegates, and the “Girondins” on the right, led by Brissot, Vergniaud and the “faction of the Gironde”. The Montagnards were identified with the interests of the Paris mob and the most radical ideas of the Revolution; the Girondins – with the interests of the provinces and the original liberal ideals of 1789. The Montagnards stood for disposing of the king as soon as possible; the Girondins wanted a referendum of the whole people to decide.

The Montagnard Saint-Just said that a trial was unnecessary; the people had already judged the king on August 10; it remained only to punish him. For “there is no innocent reign… every King is a rebel and a usurper.”[13] Robespierre had voted against the death penalty in the Assembly, but now he said that “Louis must die that the country may live” – an unconscious echo of the words of Caiaphas about Christ: “It is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not” (John 11.50). And he agreed with Saint-Just: “Louis cannot be judged, he has already been judged. He has been condemned, or else the Republic is not blameless. To suggest putting Louis XVI on trial, in whatever way, is a step back towards royal and constitutional despotism; it is a counter-revolutionary idea; because it puts the Revolution itself in the dock. After all, if Louis can still be put on trial, Louis can be acquitted; he might be innocent. Or rather, he is presumed to be until he is found guilty. But if Louis can be presumed innocent, what becomes of the Revolution?”[14]

There was a certain logic in these words: since the Revolution undermined all the foundations of the ancien régime, the possibility that the head of that régime might be innocent implied that the Revolution might be guilty. So “revolutionary justice” required straight execution rather than a trial; it could not afford to question the foundations of the Revolution itself. It was the same logic that led to the execution without trial of Tsar Nicholas II in 1918.

But the majority of the deputies were not yet as “advanced” in their thinking as Robespierre. So “during the third week of January 1793,” writes Jasper Ridley, “the Convention voted four times on the issue. A resolution finding Louis guilty of treason, and rejecting the idea of an appeal to the people by a plebiscite [so much for Rousseauist democracy!], was carried by 426 votes to 278; the decision to impose the death penalty was carried by 387 to 314. Philippe Egalité [the Duke of Orléans and cousin of the king who became Grand Master of the Masons, then a Jacobin, renouncing his title for the name ‘Philippe Egalité’] voted to convict Louis and for the death penalty. A deputy then proposed that the question of what to do with Louis should be postponed indefinitely. This was defeated by 361 to 360, a single vote. Philippe Egalité voted against the proposal, so his vote decided the issue. On 20 January a resolution that the death sentence should be immediately carried out was passed by 380 to 310, and Louis was guillotined the next day.”[15]

Now the Jacobins cast the Girondins aside. A coup against the Girondist deputies was carried out between May 31 and June 2, 1793. “In July 1793,” writes Jasper Ridley, “a young Girondin woman, Charlotte Corday, gained admission to Marat’s house by pretending that she wished to give him a list of names of Girondins to be guillotined. She found him sitting as usual in his bath to cure his skin disease, and she stabbed him to death.[16] She was guillotined, and the Girondin party was suppressed.

“In Lyons, the Girondins had gained control of the Freemasons’ lodges. In the summer of 1793 the Girondins there defied the authority of the Jacobin government in Paris, and guillotined one of the local Jacobin leaders. The Lyons Freemasons played a leading part in the rising against the Paris Jacobins; but the Jacobins suppressed the revolt, and several of the leading Girondin Freemasons of Lyons were guillotined.”[17] The revolutionary government now took terrible revenge on its defeated enemies. On October 12 the Committee “moved a decree that Lyons should be destroyed. Its very name was to disappear, except on a monument among the ruins which would proclaim ‘Lyons made war on Liberty. Lyons is no more.’”[18] Lyons was not completely destroyed, but whole ranges of houses were burnt and thousands were guillotined and shot. “The effect… was designed to be a salutory one. ‘What cement for the Revolution!’ gloated Achard in a letter to Paris.”[19]

And so the Revolution was frenziedly devouring its own children.[20] Or rather, the Masons were devouring their own brothers; for the struggle between the Girondists and the Montagnards was in fact, according to Lev Tikhomirov, a struggle between different layers of Masonry.[21] “In the period of the terror the majority of Masonic lodges were closed. As Louis Blanc explains, a significant number of Masons, though extremely liberal-minded, could still not, in accordance with their personal interests, character and public position, sympathize with the incitement of the maddened masses against the rich, to whom they themselves belonged. In the hottest battle of the revolution it was those who split off into the highest degrees who acted. The Masonic lodges were replaced by political clubs, although in the political clubs, too, there began a sifting of the revolutionaries into the more moderate and the extremists, so that quite a few Masons perished on the scaffolds from the hands of their ‘brothers’. After the overthrow of Robespierre on 9 Thermidor the Masonic lodges were again opened.”[22]

O.F. Soloviev writes: “The brotherhoods were considered outposts of counter-revolution, many disbanded themselves, some members emigrated, others stopped all work. Only after the coming to power of Napoleon, who protected the order, was its activity renewed and even broadened.”[23]

The Jacobins and the Illuminati

If we look into the origins of Jacobinism, then we very soon come up against the name of an organization called Illuminism, founded on May 1, 1776[24] by a Bavarian professor called Weishaupt, who assumed the name of “Spartacus” (from the slave who rebelled against Rome in the first century BC). Illuminism arose out of the dissatisfaction of a group of Masons with the general state of Masonry. Thus another founder member, Count Mirabeau, noted in the same year of 1776: “The Lodge Theodore de Bon Conseil at Munich, where there were a few men with brains and hearts, was tired of being tossed about by the vain promises and quarrels of Masonry. The heads resolved to graft on to their branch another secret association to which they gave the name of the Order of the Illuminés. They modelled it on the Society of Jesus, whilst proposing to themselves something diametrically opposed.”[25]

“Our strength,” wrote Weishaupt, “lies in secrecy. Therefore we must without hesitation use as a cover some innocent societies. The lodges of blue masonry are a fitting veil to hide our real aims, since the world is accustomed to expecting nothing important or constructive from them. Their ceremonies are considered pretty trifles for the amusement of big children. The name of a learned society is also a magnificent mask behind which we can hide our lower degrees.”[26]

“Weishaupt constructed his organization on several levels, revealing his most radical plans only to his chosen co-workers. Weishaupt chose the members of his organization mainly amidst young people, carefully studying each candidature.

“Having sifted out the unreliable and dubious, the leaders of the order performed on the rest a rite of consecration, which took place after a three-day fast in a dark basement. Every candidate was consecrated separately, having first had his arms and legs bound. [Then] from various corners of the dark basement the most unexpected questions were showered upon the initiate.

“Having replied to the questions, he swore absolute obedience to the leaders of the order. Every new member signed that he would preserve the secrets of the organization under fear of the death penalty.

“However, the newcomer was not yet considered to be a full member of the organization, but received the status of novice and for one to three months had to be under the observation of an experienced illuminé. He was told to keep a special diary and regularly present it to the leaders. The novice filled in numerous questionnaires, and also prepared monthly accounts of all matters linking him with the order. Having passed through all the trials, the novice underwent a second initiation, now as a fully-fledged member.

“After his initiation the new member was given a distinguishing sign, gesture and password, which changed depending on the rank he occupied.

“The newcomer received a special pseudonym (order’s name), usually borrowed from ancient history…, and got to know an ancient Persian method of timekeeping, the geography of the order, and also a secret code.

“Weishaupt imposed into the order a system of global spying and mutual tailing.

“Most of the members were at the lowest level of the hierarchy.

“No less than a thousand people entered the organization, but for conspiratorial purposes each member knew only a few people. As Weishaupt himself noted, ‘directly under me there are to, who are completely inspired by me myself, while under each of them are two, etc. Thus I can stir up and put into motion a thousand people. This is how one must command and act in politics.”[27]

“Do you realize sufficiently,” he wrote in the discourse of the reception of the Illuminatus Dirigens, “what it means to rule – to rule in a secret society? Not only over the lesser or more important of the populace, but over the best men, over men of all ranks, nations, and religions, to rule without external force, to unite them indissolubly, to breathe one spirit and soul into them, men distributed over all parts of the world?”[28]

The supposed aim of the new Order was to improve the present system of government and to abolish “the slavery of the peasants, the servitude of men to the soil, the rights of main morte and all the customs and privileges which abase humanity, the corvées under the condition of an equitable equivalent, all the corporations, all the maîtrises, all the burdens imposed on industry and commerce by customs, excise duties, and taxes… to procure a universal toleration for all religious opinions… to take away all the arms of superstitions, to favour the liberty of the press, etc.”[29] This was almost exactly the same programme as that carried out by the Constituent Assembly at the beginning of the French revolution in 1789-91 under the leadership of, among others, the same Count Mirabeau – a remarkable coincidence!

However, this liberal democratic programme was soon forgotten when Weishaupt took over control of the Order. For “Spartacus” had elaborated a much more radical programme, a programme that was to resemble the socialism of the later, more radical stages of the revolution. “Weishaupt had made into an absolute theory the misanthropic gibes [boutades] of Rousseau at the invention of property and society, and without taking into account the statement so distinctly formulated by Rousseau on the impossibility of suppressing property and society once they had been established, he proposed as the end of Illuminism the abolition of property, social authority, of nationality, and the return of the human race to the happy state in which it formed only a single family without artificial needs, without useless sciences, every father being priest and magistrate. Priest of we know not what religion, for in spite of their frequent invocations of the God of Nature, many indications lead us to conclude that Weishaupt had, like Diderot and d’Holbach, no other God than Nature herself…”[30]

Weishaupt proceeded to create an inner secret circle within Masonry. He used the religious forms of Masonry, and invented a few “mysteries” himself. But his aim was to found a political organization controlled by himself.

His political theory, according to Webster, was “no other than that of modern Anarchy, that man should govern himself and rulers should be gradually done away with. But he is careful to deprecate all ideas of violent revolution – the process is to be accomplished by the most peaceful methods. Let us see how gently he leads up to the final conclusion:

“’The first stage in the life of the whole human race is savagery, rough nature, in which the family is the only society, and hunger and thirst are easily satisfied… in which man enjoys the two most excellent goods, Equality and Liberty, to their fullest extent. … In these circumstances… health was his usual condition… Happy men, who were not yet enough enlightened to lose their peace of mind and to be conscious of the unhappy mainsprings and causes of our misery, love of power… envy… illnesses and all the results of imagination.’

“The manner in which man fell from this primitive state of felicity is then described:

“’As families increased, means of subsistence began to lack, the nomadic life ceased, property was instituted, men established themselves firmly, and through agriculture families drew near each other, thereby language developed and through living together men began to measure themselves against each other, etc… But here was the cause of the downfall of freedom; equality vanished. Man felt new unknown needs…’

“Thus men became dependent like minors under the guardianship of kings; the human must attain to majority and become self-governing:

“’Why should it be impossible that the human race should attain to its highest perfection, the capacity to guide itself? Why should anyone be eternally led who understands how to lead himself?’

“Further, men must learn not only to be independent of kings but of each other:

“’Who has need of another depends on him and has resigned his rights. So to need little is the first step to freedom; therefore savages and the most highly enlightened are perhaps the only free men. The art of more and more limiting one’s needs is at the same time the art of attaining freedom…’

“Weishaupt then goes on to show how the further evil of Patriotism arose:

“’With the origin of nations and peoples the world ceased to be a great family, a single kingdom: the great tie of nature was torn… Nationalism took the place of human love…. Now it became a virtue to magnify one’s fatherland at the expense of whoever was not enclosed within its limits, now as a means to this narrow end it was allowed to despise and outwit foreigners or indeed even to insult them. This virtue was called Patriotism…’

“And so by narrowing down affection to one’s fellow-citizens, the members of one’s own family, and even to oneself:

“’There arose out of Patriotism, Localism, the family spirit, and finally Egoism… Diminish Patriotism, then men will learn to know each other again as such, their dependence on each other will be lost, the bond of union will widen out…’

“… Whilst the ancient religions taught the hope of a Redeemer who should restore man to his former state, Weishaupt looks to man alone for his restoration. ‘Men,’ he observes, ‘no longer loved men but only such and such men. The word was quite lost…’ Thus in Weishaupt’s masonic system the ‘lost word’ is ‘Man,’ and its recovery is interpreted by the idea that Man should find himself again. Further on Weishaupt goes on to show how ‘the redemption of the human race is to be brought about’:

“’These means are secret schools of wisdom, these were from all time the archives of Nature and of human rights, through them will Man be saved from his Fall, princes and nations will disappear without violence from the earth, the human race will become one family and the world the abode of reasonable men. Morality alone will bring about this change imperceptibly. Every father of a family will be, as formerly Abraham and the patriarchs, the priest and unfettered lord of his family, and Reason will be the only code of Man. This is one of our greatest secrets…’

“… His first idea was to make Fire Worship the religion of Illuminism; the profession of Christianity therefore appears to have been an after-thought. Evidently Weishaupt discovered, as others have done, that Christianity lends itself more readily to subversive ideas than any other religion. And in the passages which follow we find adopting the old ruse of representing Christ as a Communist and as a secret-society adept. Thus he goes on to explain that ‘if Jesus preaches contempt of riches, He wishes to teach us the reasonable use of them and prepare for the community of goods introduced by Him,’ and in which, Weishaupt adds later, He lived with His disciples. But this secret doctrine is only to be apprehended by initiates…

“Weishaupt thus contrives to give a purely political interpretation to Christ’s teaching:

“’The secret preserved through the Disciplinam Arcani, and the aim appearing through all His words and deeds, is to give back to men their original liberty and equality… Now one can understand how far Jesus was the Redeemer and Saviour of the world.’

“The mission of Christ was therefore by means of Reason to make men capable of freedom: ‘When at last reason becomes the religion of man, so will the problem be solved.’

“Weishaupt goes on to show that Freemasonry can be interpreted in the same manner. The secret doctrine concealed in the teaching of Christ was handed down by initiates who ‘hid themselves and their doctrine under the cover of Freemasonry,’ and in a long explanation of Masonic hieroglyphics he indicates the analogies between the Hiramic legend and the story of Christ. ‘I say then Hiram is Christ.’… In this manner Weishaupt demonstrates that ‘Freemasonry is hidden Christianity… But this is of course only the secret of what Weishaupt calls ‘real Freemasonry’ in contradistinction to the official kind, which he regards as totally unenlightened.”[31]

But the whole religious side of Weishaupt’s system is in fact simply a ruse to attract religious men. Weishaupt himself despised religion: “You cannot imagine,” he wrote, “what consideration and sensation our Priest’s degree is arousing. The most wonderful thing is that great Protestant and reformed theologians who belong to Q [Illuminism] still believe that the religious teaching imparted in it contains the true and genuine spirit of the Christian religion. Oh! men, of what cannot you be persuaded? I never thought that I should become the founder of a new religion.”[32]

Only gradually, and only to a very few of his closest associates, did Weishaupt reveal the real purpose of his order – the revolutionary overthrow of the whole of society, civil and religious. Weishaupt has been credited with founding the idea of world revolution.[33] Elements of all religions and philosophical systems, including Christianity and Masonry, were used by Weishaupt to enrol a body of influential men (about 2500 at one time[34]) who would obey him in all things while knowing neither him personally nor the real aims of the secret society they had been initiated into. The use of codes and pseudonyms, and the pyramidal structure of his organization, whereby nobody on a lower level knew what was happening on the one above his, while those on the higher levels knew everything about what was happening below them, was copied by all succeeding revolutionary organizations.

In 1782 Weishaupt convened a Universal Congress of Illuminati in Wilhelmsbad, and was well on the way to taking over Freemasonry when, in July, 1785, an Illuminatus was struck by lightning and papers found on him led to the Bavarian government banning the organisation. However, both Illuminism and Weishaupt continued in existence – only France rather than Germany became the centre of their operations. Thus the Parisian lodge of the Amis Réunis, renamed the Ennemis Réunis, gathered together all the really radical Masons from various other lodges, many of which were still royalist, and turned them, often unconsciously, into agents of Weishaupt. These adepts included no less than thirty princes. For it was characteristic of the revolution that among those who were most swept up by the madness of its intoxication were those who stood to lose most from it.

Some far-sighted men, such as the Apostolic Nuncio in Vienna and the Marquis de Luchet, warned against Illuminism, and de Luchet predicted almost exactly the course of events that the revolution would take on the basis of his knowledge of the order. But no one paid any attention. But then, in October, 1789 a pamphlet was seized in the house of the wife of Mirabeau’s publisher among Mirabeau’s papers and published two years later.

“Beginning with a diatribe against the French monarchy,” writes Webster, “the document goes on to say that ‘in order to triumph over this hydra-headed monster these are my ideas’:

“’We must overthrow all order, suppress all laws, annul all power, and leave the people in anarchy. The law we establish will not perhaps be in force at once, but at any rate, having given back the power to the people, they will resist for the sake of the liberty which they will believe they are preserving. We must caress their vanity, flatter their hopes, promise them happiness after our work has been in operation; we must elude their caprices and their systems at will, for the people as legislators are very dangerous, they only establish laws which coincide with their passions, their want of knowledge would besides only give birth to abuses. But as the people are a lever which legislators can move at their will, we must necessarily use them as a support, and render hateful to them everything we wish to destroy and sow illusions in their path; we must also buy all the mercenary pens which propagate our methods and which will instruct the people concerning their enemies which we attack. The clergy, being the most powerful through public opinion, can only be destroyed by ridiculing religion, rendering its ministers odious, and only representing them as hypocritical monsters… Libels must at every moment show fresh traces of hatred against the clergy. To exaggerate their riches, to makes the sins of an individual appear to be common to all, to attribute to them all vices; calumny, murder, irreligion, sacrilege, all is permitted in times of revolution.’

“’We must degrade the noblesse and attribute it to an odious origin, establish a germ of equality which can never exist but which will flatter the people; [we must] immolate the most obstinate, burn and destroy their property in order to intimidate the rest, so that if we cannot entirely destroy this prejudice we can weaken it and the people will avenge their vanity and their jealousy by all the excesses which will bring them to submission.’

“After describing how the soldiers are to be seduced from their allegiance, and the magistrates represented to the people as despots, ‘since the people, brutal and ignorant, only see the evil and never the good of things,’ the writer explains they must be given only limited power in the municipalities.

“’Let us beware above all of giving them too much force; their despotism is too dangerous, we must flatter the people by gratuitous justice, promise them a great diminution in taxes and a more equal division, more extension in fortunes, and less humiliation. These phantasies [vertiges] will fanaticise the people, who will flatten out all resistance. What matter the victims and their numbers? Spoliations, destructions, burnings, and all the necessary effects of a revolution? Nothing must be sacred and we can say with Machiavelli: “What matter the means as long as one arrives at the end?”’”[35]

The early phase of the revolution – that of the constitutional monarchy and the Declaration of the Rights of Man - was led by the more idealistic kind of Freemasons. But its later stages were controlled by the Jacobin-Illuminati with their radically destructive plans. Thus “according to Lombard de Langres [writing in 1820]: ’France in 1789 counted more than 2,000 lodges affiliated to the Grand Orient; the number of adepts was more than 100,000. The first events of 1789 were only Masonry in action. All the revolutionaries of the Constituent Assembly were initiated into the third degree. We place in this class the Duc d’Orléans, Valence, Syllery, Laclos, Sièyes, Pétion, Menou, Biron, Montesquiou, Fauchet, Condorcet, Lafayette, Mirabeau, Garat, Rabaud, Dubois-Crancé, Thiébaud, Larochefoucauld, and others.’

“Amongst these others [continues Webster] were not only the Brissotins, who formed the nucleus of the Girondin party, but the men of the Terror – Marat, Robespierre, Danton, and Desmoulins.

“It was these fiercer elements, true disciples of the Illuminati, who were to sweep away the visionary Masons dreaming of equality and brotherhood. Following the precedent set by Weishaupt, classical pseudonyms were adopted by these leaders of the Jacobins, thus Chaumette was known as Anaxagoras, Clootz as Anacharsis, Danton as Horace, Lacroix as Publicola, and Ronsin as Scaevola; again, after the manner of the Illuminati, the names of towns were changed and a revolutionary calendar was adopted. The red cap and loose hair affected by the Jacobins appear also to have been foreshadowed in the lodges of the Illuminati.

“Yet faithfully as the Terrorists carried out the plan of the Illuminati, it would seem that they themselves were not initiated into the innermost secrets of the conspiracy. Behind the Convention, behind the clubs, behind the Revolutionary Tribunal, there existed, says Lombard de Langres, that ‘most secret convention [convention sécrétissime] which directed everything after May 31, an occult and terrible power of which the other Convention became the slave and which was composed of the prime initiates of Illuminism. This power was above Robespierre and the committees of the government,… it was this occult power which appropriated to itself the treasures of the nation and distributed them to the brothers and friends who had helped on the great work.’”[36]

What was this occult power that controlled even the Illuminati? Many writers think that it was the Talmudists, the rabbinic leaders of the Jewish people. However, the final triumph of the Talmudists was delayed temporarily by an excess of the revolutionary zeal they had themselves stimulated. “In the local communes,” writes L.A. Tikhomirov, “individual groups of especially wild Jacobins, who had not been initiated into higher politics, sometimes broke into synagogues, destroying the Torah and books, but it was only by 1794 that the revolutionary-atheist logic finally forced even the bosses to pose the question of the annihilation not only of Catholicism, but also of Jewry. At this point, however, the Jews were delivered by 9 Thermidor, 1794. Robespierre fell and was executed. The moderate elements triumphed. The question of the ban of Jewry disappeared of itself, while the Constitution of Year III of the Republic granted equal rights to the Jews.”[37]

[C.Martel]

con't


Napoleon Bonaparte

By the end of the eighteenth century, the revolution appeared to have lost its way, consumed by poverty, corruption and mutual blood-letting. It was saved by a young soldier, Napoleon Bonaparte, who was as sincerely faithful to the spirit of the French revolution as Cromwell had been to the English.

The Mason Christopher Hodapp writes: “It was rumoured for many years that Napoleon Bonaparte was a Freemason, but there is no historic proof of it. Still, many of his military officers, members of his Grand Council for the Empire, and 22 of the 30 Marshals of France were. So were his four brothers, three of whom were made kings by Napoleon. The Emperor’s wife, Empress Josephine, was even admitted into a French female lodge in 1804. Regardless of whether Napoleon was ever made a Mason, he did adopt the title Protector of Freemasonry, along with the lengthy list of other titles he assumed when he became emperor in 1804.”[38]

Madame de Staël called him Robespierre on horseback After all, he came from Corsica, which in 1755 had successfully rebelled from Genoa, and for which Rousseau wrote one of his most seminal works, Project de constitution pour la Corse, in 1765. But, like Cromwell (and Caesar), he found that in order to save the republic he had to take control of it and rule it like a king.

His chance came on 19 Brumaire (November 10), 1799, when he overthrew the Directory, describing parliamentarism as “hot air”, and frightened the two elective assemblies into submission. On December 13 a new constitution was proclaimed with Bonaparte as the first of three Consuls with full executive powers. And on December 15 the three Consuls declared: “Citizens, the Revolution is established upon its original principles: it is consummated…”[39]

Paul Johnson writes: “The new First Consul was far more powerful than Louis XIV, since he dominated the armed forces directly in a country that was now organized as a military state. All the ancient restraints on divine-right kingship – the Church, the aristocracy and its resources, the courts, the cities and their charters, the universities and their privileges, the guilds and their immunities – all had been swept away by the Revolution, leaving France a legal blank on which Bonaparte could stamp the irresistible force of his personality.”[40]

But, again like Caesar and Cromwell, he could never confess to being a king in the traditional sense. Under him, in Norman Davies’ phrase, “a pseudo-monarchy headed pseudo-democratic institutions.”[41]

So, as J.M. Roberts writes, while Napoleon reinstituted monarchy, “it was in no sense a restoration. Indeed, he took care so to affront the exiled Bourbon family that any reconciliation with it was inconceivable. He sought popular approval for the empire in a plebiscite and got it.[42]

“This was a monarchy Frenchmen had voted for; it rested on popular sovereignty, that is, the Revolution. It assumed the consolidation of the Revolution which the Consulate had already begun. All the great institutional reforms of the 1790s were confirmed or at least left intact; there was no disturbance of the land sales which had followed the confiscation of Church property, no resurrection of the old corporations, no questioning of the principle of equality before the law. Some measures were even taken further, notably when each department was given an administrative head, the prefect, who was in his powers something like one of the emergency emissaries of the Terror…”[43]

Cromwell had eschewed the trappings of monarchy, but Napoleon embraced them avidly. The trend towards monarchy and hierarchy developed; and “earlier than is generally thought,” writes Philip Mansel, “the First Consul Bonaparte aligned himself with this monarchical trend, acquiring in succession a guard (1799), a palace (1800), court receptions and costumes (1800-02), a household (1802-04), a dynasty (1804), finally a nobility (1808)… The proclamation of the empire in May 1804, the establishment of the households of the Emperor, the Empress and the Imperial Family in July, the coronation by the pope in December of that year, were confirmations of an existing monarchical reality.”[44]

Moreover, Napoleon spread monarchy throughout Europe. The kingdoms and Grand Duchies of Italy, Venice, Rome, Naples, Lucca, Dubrovnik, Holland, Mainz, Bavaria, Württemburg, Saxony, Baden, Hesse-Darmstadt, Westphalia and Spain were all established or re-established with still greater monarchical power - and all ruled by Napoleon’s relations by blood or marriage. According to Stendhal, Napoleon’s court “totally corrupted” him “and exalted his amour propre to the state of a disease… He was on the point of making Europe one vast monarchy.”[45]

“’The French empire shall become the metropolitan of all other sovereignties,’ Napoleon once said to a friend. ‘I want to force every king in Europe to build a large palace for his use in Paris. When an Emperor of the French is crowned, these kings shall come to Paris, and they shall adorn that imposing ceremony with their presence and salute it with their homage.’”[46]

“As one of his secretaries Baron Meneval wrote, he saw himself as ‘the pillar of royalty in Europe’. On January 18th, 1813, he wrote to his brother Jerome that his enemies, by appealing to popular feeling, represented ‘upheavals and revolutions… pernicious doctrines.’ In Napoleon’s opinion his fellow monarchs were traitors to ‘their own cause’ when in 1813 they began to desert the French Empire, or in 1814 refused to accept his territorial terms for peace…”[47]

Jocelyn Hunt writes: “Kings before 1791 were said to be absolute but were limited by all kinds of constraints and controls. The Church had an almost autonomous status. Bonaparte ensured that the Church was merely a branch of the civil service. Kings were anointed by the Church, and thus owed their authority to God: Bonaparte took power through his own strength, camouflaged as ‘the General Will’ which, as Correlli Barnett acidly remarks, ‘became synonymous with General Bonaparte’.[48] When he became emperor in 1804, he crowned himself...

“The First Consul’s choice of ministers was a far more personal one than had been possible for the kings of France. Bonaparte established a system of meeting his ministers individually, in order to give his instructions. In the same way, Bonaparte chose which ‘ordinary’ citizens he would consult; kings of France had mechanisms for consulting ‘the people’ but these had fallen into disuse and thus, when the Estates General met in 1789, the effect was revolutionary. Bonaparte’s legislative body was, until 1814, submissive and compliant.…

“Police control and limitations on personal freedom had been a focus of condemnation by the Philosophes before the Revolution, but had not been entirely efficient: a whole industry of importing and distributing banned texts had flourished in the 1770s and 1780s. Bonaparte’s police were more thorough, and so swingeing were the penalties that self-censorship rapidly became the safest path for a newspaper to take. Bonaparte closed down sixty of the seventy-three newspapers in Paris in January, 1800, and had a weekly summary prepared of all printed material, but he was soon able to tell his Chief of Police, Fouché, ‘They only print what I want them to.’[49] In the same way, the hated lettres de cachet appear limited and inefficient when compared to Bonaparte’s and Fouché’s record of police spies, trials without jury and imprisonment without trial. Bonaparte’s brief experience as a Jacobin leader in Ajaccio had taught him how to recognise, and deal with, potential opponents.[50]

“The judiciary had stood apart from the kings of the ancien régime: while the King was nominally the supreme Judge, the training of lawyers and judges had been a matter for the Parlements, with their inherent privileges and mechanisms. The Parlements decided whether the King’s laws were acceptable within the fundamental laws of France. Under the Consulate, there were no such constraints on the legislator. The judges were his appointees, and held office entirely at his pleasure; the courts disposed of those who opposed or questioned the government, far more rapidly that had been possible in the reign of Louis XVI. Imprisonment and deportation became regularly used instruments of control under Bonaparte.

“Kings of France were fathers to their people and had a sense of duty and service. Bonaparte, too, believed that he was essential to the good and glory of France, but was able to make his own decisions about what constituted the good of France in a way which was not open to the king. Finally, while the monarchy of France was hereditary and permanent, and the position of First Consul was supposed to be held for ten years, Bonaparte’s strength was demonstrated when he changed his own constitution, first to give him the role for life and then to become a hereditary monarch. All in all, no monarch of the ancien régime had anything approaching the power which Bonaparte had been permitted to take for himself…

“When a Royalist bomb plot was uncovered in December, 1800, Bonaparte seized the opportunity to blame it on the Jacobins, and many were guillotined, with over a hundred more being exiled or imprisoned. The regime of the Terror had operated in similar ways to remove large numbers of potential or actual opponents. Press censorship and the use of police spies ensured that anti-government opinions were not publicly aired. The Declaration of the Rights of Man had guaranteed freedom of expression; but this freedom had already been eroded before Bonaparte’s coup. The Terror had seen both moral and political censorship, and the Directory had on several occasions exercised its constitutional right to censor the press. Bonaparte appears merely to have been more efficient…

“Bonaparte certainly held power without consulting the French people; he took away many of the freedoms they had been guaranteed in 1789; he taxed them more heavily than they had been taxed before. [In 1803 he wrote:] ‘I haven’t been able to understand yet what good there is in an opposition. Whatever it may say, its only result is to diminish the prestige of authority in the eyes of the people’.”[51]

In 1804, he even declared himself emperor with the name Napoleon, after which Beethoven tore out the title-page of his Eroica symphony, which had been dedicated to him, and said: “So he too is nothing but a man. Now he also will trample all human rights underfoot, and only pander to his own ambition; he will place himself above everyone else and become a tyrant…”[52] As de Tocqueville wrote: “Absolute government found huge scope for its rebirth [in] that man who was to be both the consummator and the nemesis of the Revolution.”[53]

So Napoleon was undoubtedly a despot, but a despot who could claim many precedents for his despotism in the behaviour of the Jacobins and Directory. And if he was not faithful to the forms of the revolution in its early phase, replacing democracy (of a despotic kind) with monarchy (of a populist kind), he nevertheless remained faithful to its fundamental principles, the principle, on the one hand, that nobody and nothing should be independent of the State (the principle of totalitarianism), and on the other, the principle that the Nation was the supreme value, and serving and dying for the Nation - the supreme glory.

However, writes Adam Zamoyski, “it was not so much a matter of France ‘űber alles’. ‘European society needs a regeneration,’ Napoleon asserted in conversation in 1805. ‘There must be a superior power which dominates all the other powers, with enough authority to force them to live in harmony with one another – and France is the best placed for that purpose.’ He was, like many a tyrant, utopian in his ambitions. ‘We must have a European legal system, a European appeal court, a common currency, the same weights and measures the same laws,’ Napoleon once said to Joseph Fouché: ‘I must make of all the peoples of Europe one people, and of Paris the capital of the world.’”[54]

And yet “at bottom,” as Johnson notes, “Bonaparte despised the French, or perhaps it would be more exact to say the Parisians, the heart of the ‘political nation’. He thought of them, on the basis of his experience during the various phases of the Revolution, as essentially frivolous.”[55]

The truth is, therefore, that it was neither the State nor the Nation that Bonaparte exalted above all, – although he greatly increased the worship of both in later European history, – but himself. So the spirit that truly reigned in the Napoleonic era can most accurately be described as the spirit of the man-god, of the Antichrist, of whom Bonaparte himself, as the Russian Holy Synod quite rightly said, was a forerunner.

This antichristian quality is most clearly captured in Madame De Staël’s characterization: “I had the disturbing feeling that no emotion of the heart could ever reach him. He regards a human being like a fact or a thing, never as an equal person like himself. He neither hates nor loves… The force of his will resides in the imperturbable calculations of his egotism. He is a chess-master whose opponents happen to be the rest of humanity… Neither pity nor attraction, nor religion nor attachment would ever divert him from his ends… I felt in his soul cold steel, I felt in his mind a deep irony against which nothing great or good, even his own destiny, was proof; for he despised the nation which he intended to govern, and no spark of enthusiasm was mingled with his desire to astound the human race…”[56]

Napoleon and the Jews

If the French revolution gave the Jews their first political victory, Napoleon gave them their second. On May 22, 1799, the Paris Moniteur published the following report from Constantinople on April 17: “Buonaparte has published a proclamation in which he invites all the Jews of Asia and Africa to come and place themselves under his flag in order to re-establish ancient Jerusalem. He has already armed a great number and their battalions are threatening Aleppo.” This was not the first time that the Jews had persuaded a Gentile ruler to restore them to Jerusalem. The Roman Emperor Julian the Apostate had allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem and start rebuilding the Temple. However, fire came out from the foundations and black crosses appeared on the workers’ garments, forcing them to abandon the enterprise.[57]

And the Jews were to be thwarted again. For British sea-power prevented Napoleon from reaching Jerusalem and making himself, as was reported to be his intention, king of the Jews. The Jews would have to wait over a century before another Gentile power – this time, the British – again offered them a return to Zion.

Napoleon now learned what many rulers before and after had learned: that kindness towards the Jews does not make them more tractable. Nechvolodov writes: “Since the first years of the Empire, Napoleon I had become very worried about the Jewish monopoly in France and the isolation in which they lived in the midst of the other citizens, although they had received citizenship. The reports of the departments showed the activity of the Jews in a very bad light: ‘Everywhere there are false declarations to the civil authorities; fathers declare the sons who are born to them to be daughters… Again, there are Jews who have given an example of disobedience to the laws of conscription; out of sixty-nine Jews who, in the course of six years, should have formed part of the Moselle contingent, none has entered the army.’

“By contrast, behind the army, they give themselves up to frenzied speculation.

“’Unfortunately,’ says Thiers describing the entry of the French into Rome in his History of the Revolution, ‘the excesses, not against persons but against property, marred the entry of the French into the ancient capital of the world… Berthier had just left for Paris, Massena had just succeeded him. This hero was accused of having given the first example. He was soon imitated. They began to pillage the palaces, convents and rich collections. Some Jews in the rear of the army bought for a paltry price the magnificent objects which the looters were offering them.’

“It was in 1805, during Napoleon’s passage through Strasbourg, after the victory of Austerlitz, that the complaints against the Jews assumed great proportions. The principal accusations brought against them concerned the terrible use they made of usury. As soon as he returned to Paris, Napoleon judged it necessary to concentrate all his attention on the Jews. In the State Council, during its session of April 30, he said, among other things, the following on this subject:

“’The French government cannot look on with indifference as a vile, degraded nation capable of every iniquity takes exclusive possession of two beautiful departments of Alsace; one must consider the Jews as a nation and not as a sect. It is a nation within a nation; I would deprive them, at least for a certain time, of the right to take out mortgages, for it is too humiliating for the French nation to find itself at the mercy of the vilest nation. Some entire villages have been expropriated by the Jews; they have replaced feudalism… It would be dangerous to let the keys of France, Strasbourg and Alsace, fall into the hands of a population of spies who are not at all attached to the country.’”[58]

Napoleon eventually decided on an extraordinary measure: to convene a 111-strong Assembly of Jewish Notables in order to receive clear and unambiguous answers to the following questions: did the Jewish law permit mixed marriages; did the Jews regard Frenchmen as foreigners or as brothers; did they regard France as their native country, the laws of which they were bound to obey; did the Judaic law draw any distinction between Jewish and Christian debtors? At the same time, writes Johnson, Napoleon “supplemented this secular body by convening a parallel meeting of rabbis and learned laymen, to advise the Assembly on technical points of Torah and halakhah. The response of the more traditional elements of Judaism was poor. They did not recognize Napoleon’s right to invent such a tribunal, let alone summon it…”[59]

However, if some traditionalists did not welcome it, other Jews received the news with unbounded joy. “According to Abbé Lemann,” writes Nechvolodov, “they grovelled in front of him and were ready to recognize him as the Messiah. The sessions of the Sanhedrin [composed of 46 rabbis and 25 laymen from all parts of Western Europe] took place in February and March, 1807, and the Decision of the Great Sanhedrin began with the words: ’Blessed forever is the Lord, the God of Israel, Who has placed on the throne of France and of the kingdom of Italy a prince according to His heart. God has seen the humiliation of the descendants of ancient Jacob, and He has chosen Napoleon the Great to be the instrument of His mercy… Reunited today under his powerful protection in the good town of Paris, to the number of seventy-one doctors of the law and notables of Israel, we constitute a Great Sanhedrin, so as to find in us a means and power to create religious ordinances in conformity with the principles of our holy laws, and which may serve as a rule and example to all Israelites. These ordinances will teach the nations that our dogmas are consistent with the civil laws under which we live, an do not separate us at all from the society of men…’”[60]

“The Jewish delegates,” writes Platonov, “declared that state laws had the same obligatory force for Jews, that every honourable study of Jewish teaching was allowed, but usury was forbidden, etc. [However,] to the question concerning mixed marriages of Jews and Christians they gave an evasive, if not negative reply. ‘Although mixed marriages between Jews and Christians cannot be clothed in a religious form, they nevertheless do not draw upon them any anathema.”[61]

On the face of it, the convening of the Sanhedrin was a great triumph for Napoleon, who could now treat Jewry as just another religious denomination, and not a separate nation, “appropriating for the state what had traditionally been a subversive institution”.[62] However, the Jews did not restrain their money-lending and speculative activities, as Napoleon had pleaded with them to do. On the contrary, only one year after the convening of the Great Sanhedrin, when it became evident that their financial excesses were continuing, Napoleon was forced to adopt repressive measures against them.

Moreover, he created rabbinic consistories in France having disciplinary powers over Jews and granted rabbis the status of state officials – a measure that was strengthen the powers of the rabbis over their people. In time Jewish consistories were created all over Europe. They “began the stormy propaganda of Judaism amidst Jews who had partially fallen away from the religion of their ancestors, organised rabbinic schools and spiritual seminaries for the education of youth in the spirit of Talmudic Judaism.”[63]

Moreover, as Tikhomirov points out, “no laws could avert the international links of the Jews. Sometimes they even appeared openly, as in Kol Ispoel Khaberim (Alliance Israélite Universelle), although many legislatures forbad societies and unions of their own citizens to have links with foreigners. The Jews gained a position of exceptional privilege. For the first time in the history of the diaspora they acquired greater rights than the local citizens of the countries of the dispersion. One can understand that, whatever the further aims for the resurrection of Israel might be, the countries of the new culture and statehood became from that time a lever of support for Jewry.”[64]

Indeed, the main result of the Great Sanhedrin, writes Nechvolodov, “was to unite Judaism still more. “’Let us not forget from where we draw our origin,’ said Rabbi Salomon Lippmann Cerfbeer on July 26, 1808, in his speech for the opening of the preparatory assembly of the Sanhedrin:- ‘Let it no longer be a question of “German” or “Portuguese” Jews; although disseminated over the surface of the globe, we everywhere form only one unique people.’”[65]

As we have seen, the emancipation of the Jews in France led to their emancipation in other countries. Even after the fall of Napoleon, on June 8, 1815, the Congress of Vienna decreed that “it was incumbent on the members of the German Confederation to consider an ‘amelioration’ of the civil status of all those who ‘confessed the Jewish faith in Germany.’”[66] Gradually, though not without opposition, Jewish emancipation and Jewish power spread throughout Europe…

Vladimir Moss.

December 8/21, 2010

http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/336/-jews,-masons-french-revolution/

[C.Martel]

What the zionist jew supports say:


State Department document 861.00/1757 sent May 2, 1918 by U.S. consul general in Moscow, Summers: “Jews prominent in local Soviet government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population.…”

State Department document 861.00/2205 was sent from Vladivostok on July 5, 1918 by U.S. consul Caldwell: “Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type.”

From the Headquarters of the American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia on March 1, 1919, comes this telegram from Omsk by Chief of Staff, Capt. Montgomey Shuyler: “It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since it’s beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type.” It seems that nothing has changed since then. It is still very “unwise” to tell the truth.

A second Schuyler telegram, dated June 9, 1919 from Vladivostok, reports on the make-up of the presiding Soviet government: “…There were 384 “commissars” including 2 Negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen, 22 Armenians, AND MORE THAN 300 JEWS. Of the latter number, 264 had come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial Government.”

Even as recently as 1965, a study by the US Senate Judiciary Committee of anti-Jewish policies of the Soviet government at that time entitled “The Soviet Empire, A Study of Discrimination and Abuse of Power” revealed that before WW II a whopping 41.1% of the members of the entire Supreme Soviet had been Jews despite being a mere 2% of the population.

“Whatever the racial antecedents of their top man, the first Soviet commissariats were largely staffed with Jews. The Jewish position in the Communist movement was well understood in Russia. The White Armies which opposed the Bolshevik government linked Jews and Bolsheviks as common enemies” (Univ. Jew Encyc., Vol. I, p. 336).

[C.Martel]

Bolshevism and the jews

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?93463-Bolshevism-and-the-jews

[C.Martel]

Maximilian Kolbe to the Masons:You Are Controlled by the Jews


In 1917 Maximilian Kolbe founded the Militia of the Immaculata. His fight was not turned toward killing the enemies of the Church, but aimed to convert them so they could achieve eternal salvation. It is in this spirit that he addressed his enemies.

In an article titled “The Poor Ones” he describes the hatred expressed for Christ and His Church in The Talmud: “Man was redeemed, and Christ founded His Church upon a rock. Some of the Hebrew people recognized Him as the Messiah, but others – among them principally the Pharisees – did not want to recognize Him. Instead, they persecuted His followers and issued numerous laws obliging the Jews to persecute the Christians. These laws, together with stories and appendixes, became their sacred book called The Talmud around the year 500.

“In this book Christians are called idolaters, worse than Turks, murderers, impure libertines; they are manure, animals in human form, worse than animals, children of the Devil, etc. Catholic priests are called fortune-tellers and bald-headed dunces … the Church is called a house of stupidity and filth; sacred statues, medals and rosaries are called idols. In The Talmud Sundays and holy days of obligation are considered days of perdition.

“This book teaches, among other things, that a Hebrew can deceive a Christian and steal from him since all the properties of a Christian are – from the text itself – ‘like the desert, the first to take them becomes the owner.’

“This book, written in 12 volumes and breathing hatred against Christ, is considered by these Pharisees a sacred book, more important than Sacred Scriptures.”

At the time of the International Congress of Freemasonry in Bucharest in 1926, Fr. Kolbe wrote the article "Rycerz Niepokalanej" [The Knight of the Immaculate] in which one reads:

“These men [the Freemasons] believe that they are the ones who will rule everything, but let us hear what is written in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Protocol n. 11 states: ‘We will create and put in effect the laws and the governments … in opportune moments … by means of national rebellions. … What we want is that the multitudes, disoriented by the revolt, still in a condition of terror and uncertainty, should understand once and for all that we are so strong, so untouchable, so powerful that in no way will we take into account their opinions and wishes. Instead we are ready and able to crush with irresistible power their manifestations at any moment and in every place. … Then, in fear and trembling, they will close their eyes to everything and await the consequences. …

“For what purpose have we created this policy and insinuated it into the minds of the Masons, without giving them any possibility of examining its underlying meaning? ... This is what has served as the basis for our secret organization of Masonry, whose existence is not known or even suspected by these cattle, attracted by us into the army of Masonic lodges.”

Here, Fr. Kolbe directs himself to the Masons, saying, “Freemasons, did you hear this? The Hebrews, who have secretly organized and secretly direct you, consider you as beasts, recruited into the Masonic lodges for ends that you neither know nor suspect … Are you aware, Freemasons, of what awaits those among you who will begin to think for themselves? Listen to this in the same Protocol: ‘Death is the inevitable conclusion of every life … We will execute the Masons in a way that no one can suspect, not even the victims themselves: They will all die at the moment it is deemed necessary, apparently because of common illnesses.’

The saint Founder continues: “Freemasons, you who recently during the Bucharest Congress were pleased by the fact that Masonry is growing stronger everywhere, reflect well and answer sincerely: Is it not better to serve the Creator with interior peace … rather than to obey the orders of those who hate you?”

Finally, Maximilian Kolbe directs himself to the secret Chiefs of Freemasonry with these words:

“And you, small squadron of Hebrews, the ‘learned elders of Zion,’ who have already consciously provoked so many misfortunes and are preparing yet others, to you I direct this question: What advantage will you gain? … A huge accumulation of gold, pleasures, diversions and power, but none of this makes man happy. And if still it should give some happiness, how long will it last? Ten years perhaps, or twenty … I ask you, Hebrew leaders, you who have let yourselves be seduced by Satan, the enemy of humanity, would it not be better for you also to return sincerely to God?”

In another article of 1926, Fr. Kolbe, again citing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, wrote: “They say of themselves: ‘Who or what is in a position to overthrow an invisible force? And this is precisely what our force is. Gentile Freemasonry only serves as a screen for us and our objectives, but our plan of action will always remain unknown by the people.”

The Saint then presents his position with subtle irony: “But we are an army whose ‘Commander’ knows each and every one of the enemies, who has observed and observes every one of their hidden actions, each one of their words, and even their very thoughts. Ask yourselves, under such conditions, can one speak of secret plans, clandestine actions and invisibility?”

And here Fr. Kolbe reveals the name of the “Commander” of his army: “It is the Immaculate Virgin, the refuge of sinners, but also the one who tramples the infernal Serpent. She will crush its head!”

http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/G_010_Kobe_Jewsl.html

[C.Martel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjPQ_ZXqkWI

The end game of the jew is for the "goyim" to have no God, the jews have a monopoly on "God" and the "goyim" to worship the jew.


Jesus on the topic of these zionist jews
Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?

[KenJackson]

... the jew ..., the jews ... the jew. ... zionist jews

Grief. There's no doubt that your button got pushed. [(:)]

Sorry but LTDR.

Also, "flat earth" didn't appear in any of that stuff you posted.

[C.Martel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bHkkMpheDs

there is video on youtube where Bishop Williamson says read The plot against the Church by Mauice Pinay.


The plot against the Church

It can be stated without fear of exaggeration that no book in the present century has been the object of so many commentaries in the world press... What gives this book definite, provable worth is that it deals with a magnificent and imposing compilation of documents and sources of undeniable importance and authenticity, which demonstrates with no room for doubt the existence of a great conspiracy, which the traditional enemies of the Church have prepared against Holy Catholic Church, and against the Free World. These (enemies) are attempting to convert Catholicism into a blind instrument in the service of communism, Masonry, and Judaism, in order to weaken free humanity with it and to facilitate its ruin and, with this ruin, the definite victory of atheistic communism. The most useful instruments in this conspiracy are those Catholic clergymen who, betraying Holy Church, attempt to destroy her most loyal defenders, while at the same time they assist, in every way they can, Communists, Masons and Jews in their subversive activities. In the pages, in the arguments, and in the style of the book, is revealed the presence of Catholic clerics, in battle against the eternal heresy, which has always tended to subvert the religious, ethical, and historical bases of Catholicism, employing successively Simon the Magician, Arius, Nestor, the Albigenses, and in the present day the leftists of the Ecumenical Council.

https://www.amazon.com/plot-against-Church-Maurice-Pinay/dp/1910220949

The jews run the courts, the police, the media, Federal Reserve, banks, porn industry, Hollywood, enterainment industry, the Zionist Occupied Governments of the West (source Pat Buchanan), many false religions in the service of jews, secret societies, inteligence agencies, the MIC, corporations, alphabet agencies, political parties.

[Jewboo]

The jews run the courts, the police, the media, Federal Reserve, banks, porn industry, Hollywood, enterainment industry, the Zionist Occupied Governments of the West (source Pat Buchanan), many false religions in the service of jews, secret societies, inteligence agencies, the MIC, corporations, alphabet agencies, political parties.



The TOPIC of this thread is "Flat Earth".





:rolleyes:

[Jewboo]

What say you Mamboni?

:)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA64E00000578-0-image-a-12_1487942646242.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/24/13/3D9CA66200000578-0-Saunders_spent_ten_years_preparing_for_his_South_P ole_expedition-a-15_1487943479511.jpg



Ben Saunders made history in 2013 when he did the return trip to the South Pole
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
It was the same journey that defeated Captain Robert Falcon Scott and his team (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)
He completed the 1,795 mile traverse in 108 days and ran out of food (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4256612/First-man-South-Pole-foot-reveals-hardships.html)



bump

:)

[KenJackson]

It was the same journey that defeated Captain Robert Falcon Scott and his team

Cool. Although Scott didn't have a GPS receiver, a map, lightweight windproof fabrics or lightweight plastic gear.

Hey! It doesn't say he saw the alien or Nazi military bases.

[Bigjon]

An expert forum slider seems to want to bury this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q)

4 video's not.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24

North pole and South pole 2 different sky charts that can't be seen without traveling from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere.

[monty]

An expert forum slider seems to want to bury this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVTLDtaQSL8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5lM5WEY3Q)

4 video's not.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmI-wh_R24

North pole and South pole 2 different sky charts that can't be seen without traveling from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere.


When I was in Rancagua, Chile I could see that the stars in the southern sky appeared to rotate around the stars over the south pole like the big dipper appears to rotate around the north star.

[C.Martel]

And (((they))) promote flat earth and other lies to make the goyim atheist, among other things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-aNyrDwKI

[Jewboo]

from a 4chan thread:

" The shadow of the earth cast on the moon during a lunar eclipse is round, thus proving that the earth is truly a globe... "

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1439/84/1439841251384.png

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1457/16/1457169597948.gif

:(?? Mamboni ?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtblLsygmSY


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ed/2c/43/ed2c436239bf21e406cf5c7b4c23f7de.jpg


Starting in 1979 from Greenwich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich) in the United Kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), adventurers Sir Ranulph Fiennes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Ranulph_Fiennes) and Charles R. Burton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Burton) went south, arriving at the South Pole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole) on 17 December 1980. Over the next 14 months, they went north again, reaching the North Pole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole) on 11 April 1982. Travelling south once more, they arrived again in Greenwich on 29 August 1982.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition#cite_note-1)

[KenJackson]

from a 4chan thread:
"The shadow of the earth cast on the moon during a lunar eclipse is round, thus proving that the earth is truly a globe... "

I would hate to help the flat-earther's case, but this alone doesn't prove the earth is a globe. If the earth were a flat circle it might also cast a round shadow.

I have to admit, I'm impressed with the zeal and energy the flat-earthers put into their religion. Sure, it's silly, but I think evolution of species and anthropomorphic global warming are just as silly.

[Jewboo]

If the earth were a flat circle it might also cast a round shadow.



https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1437/06/1437063638721.gif

Not with Mamboni's map.

:rolleyes:

[crimethink]

What I want to know is why it's easier for some to believe in a flat earth or secret antarctic Nazi bases or (good grief) redoctobermsz than God.

A flat Earth, etc., do not ask for respect for the Manufacturer or ask that one follows the instruction manual.

[crimethink]

No, that doesn't answer what I'm pondering. In this thread, we're speculating about people who believe in a flat earth. Do "Judeo-masonry" and "judeo-communism", whatever the heck those terms mean, promote a flat earth? Are they primarily responsible for promoting the flat earth? I doubt it. I can't imagine what would prompt a person to forsake the obvious globe, but I think it must be connected with fleeing from God.

There are many more such wacky notions. The really big one is evolution of species. To believe it, they have to ignore probabilities and mutation paths and the mapping of DNA to traits, but many many people will fiercely, even viciously, defend it in a vain attempt to avoid God. (In fact, there's a good chance someone will fiercely defend it in this thread.)

BTW, when you say "Jew" and "Jewish", do you specifically mean a person who descends from Jacob? Or someone who worships God according to the Jewish faith?

One who descends from Jacob-Israel is an Israelite. And, there is no "Jewish faith." The religion of Moses is now called Christianity. Judaism is a post-Christ invention, based upon the "traditions of the Elders" (now called the Talmud).

As for the flat Earth lunacy, I don't know if Judeo-Freemasonry is actively involved in pushing it. However, understand that the Father of Lies is always seeking to sow confusion. And Judeo-Freemasonry and the so-called "Jewish faith" both answer to the Father of Lies. The flat Earth preposterous hypothesis is confusion, and, even if not actively promoted by his officer corps, it still serves his purposes.

[crimethink]

I would hate to help the flat-earther's case, but this alone doesn't prove the earth is a globe. If the earth were a flat circle it might also cast a round shadow.


You're not helping them; you're standing up for reason and truth. Something they seem incapable of.




I have to admit, I'm impressed with the zeal and energy the flat-earthers put into their religion. Sure, it's silly, but I think evolution of species and anthropomorphic global warming are just as silly.

It's not "silly." It's dangerous lunacy. No different than claiming 2 + 2 = 5.

We must seek to understand why this lunacy is becoming more popular. Is there an active prime mover pushing it? Is it merely a reflection of increasing insanity in an increasingly insane world? That a trained scientist - mamboni - would believe this utter bullshit is very disturbing.

[PatColo]

haven't listened, prolly won't unless there's buzz here about how great it is. :)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/V8Y1cBTKWUQ/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=246&h=138&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=8WZMso-Ur4mVX6-BdU6haDztBpM 44:22
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Y1cBTKWUQ)Flat Earth & Mandela Effect - LtV debates Jeff C (New World Agenda, FreeRadioRevolution) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Y1cBTKWUQ)
462 views1 hour ago

[C.Martel]

You're not helping them; you're standing up for reason and truth. Something they seem incapable of.




It's not "silly." It's dangerous lunacy. No different than claiming 2 + 2 = 5.

We must seek to understand why this lunacy is becoming more popular. Is there an active prime mover pushing it? Is it merely a reflection of increasing insanity in an increasingly insane world? That a trained scientist - mamboni - would believe this utter bullshit is very disturbing.

There is a reason why it is promoted. "Mom, look what I learned today. The holocaust never happened here's the proof. 9-11 was done by mossad, here's the proof, nearly all democracies are zionist occupied governments, here's the proof and... the earth is flat." Mom won't believe any of it because she knows the earth is a globe. Shaq being a freemason and promoting the earth is flat is enough for me to link it to (((them))).

[StreetsOfGold]

And (((they))) promote flat earth and other lies to make the goyim atheist, among other things.

The Spinning ball earth is what produces atheists, not the BIBLE EARTH!!! Bing Bang which is what they claim PRODUCED those spinning balls, which then gave rise to evolution. That's HOW it "became a spinning ball" It's part of the evolution fable, not a PART of DESIGN as the Bible (Flat) earth demonstrates!!

Bottom line:

you have it completely BACKWARDS!! You have been deceived and brainwashed!!

[crimethink]

the BIBLE EARTH!!!

The Biblical Earth is round.

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.


Isaiah was given a vision of the Earth from various altitudes, and saw the round shape of the sphere and the curvature of the Earth, with tiny little "grasshoppers" running about.

http://www.icr.org/article/circle-earth/


(now, commence the diatribe that Henry Morris was a "Jesuit" and "a tool of the Vatican." :rolleyes:

[Neuro]

There is a reason why it is promoted. "Mom, look what I learned today. The holocaust never happened here's the proof. 9-11 was done by mossad, here's the proof, nearly all democracies are zionist occupied governments, here's the proof and... the earth is flat." Mom won't believe any of it because she knows the earth is a globe. Shaq being a freemason and promoting the earth is flat is enough for me to link it to (((them))).
It's same as David Icke, 95% of what he says is truth, then he spice it up with the reptilians and the moon is a transmitter, which pretty much discredits himself and everything he says...

[PatColo]

a couple from cannuck brian ruhe, & 2 guests: Jan from S.Africa, & Dion Werewolf,



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KzGLJZArjG0/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=67&sigh=mkuLOdcJ57R6Ak_1rdiybScPipk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzGLJZArjG0) 33:22

Jew Shock! When Whites Go Wonky and Believe the Flat Earth! - 2 of 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzGLJZArjG0)

361 views
1 week ago





https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UN_k3zcxRiY/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=67&sigh=7e0IgAM3XTwo2-Ko6_YpsjLal7Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN_k3zcxRiY) 32:17



Jew Shock! When Whites Go Wonky and Believe the Flat Earth! - 1 of 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN_k3zcxRiY)

727 views
1 week ago

[Uncle Salty]

You're just sore your "flat earth candidate" is slumping in the polls...

How did that work out? Lol.

Trump is President and the Earth is flat...

[Neuro]

I have an alternate theory to both FLAT EARTH and HELIOCENTRIC theories. The center of my universe lies in the middle of my head while the center of your universe might lie in the middle of your head.

I think we are moving into an era of asscentric models of the universe, with the amount of shit released by people with their heads up their ass. Really we are entering an era of darkness and superstition.

[Neuro]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1437/06/1437063638721.gif

Not with Mamboni's map.

:rolleyes:
It is obvious from that map that there is no way there could be midnight sun on the South Pole, or the Antarctic Rim if you choose that model, even at spring and autumn equinoxes, the sun would only shine for a short time.

Mamboni go to Antarctica and prove that there is darkness at the South Pole/Antarctic rim at Christmas time. Or are you afraid of the Kraken?

Besides poor Australians/New Zeelanders/South Africans/South Argentinians/Chileans, they have very short sunlight hours all year, at spring/autumn equinox it couldn't be more than 6 hours of sunlight. Did you notice this Glass? I was in Australia in January and February 1992, which would be near the period of maximum daylight hours, but still it couldn't be more than 8 hours, funny I don't remember those short days. Now at this time of the year when the sun is closest to the North Pole, poor Glass couldn't have more than 3 hours of daylight. How does that make you feel Glass? I know it is depressing here in South Sweden around Christmas time when we have only 6 hours of daylight, but you have way less than that at least 6 months a year.

[C.Martel]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1437/06/1437063638721.gif

Not with Mamboni's map.

:rolleyes:

My iq is kinda low, it's only 135. So someone smarter can explain it better, critique it. Doesn't the lunar phases disprove that map? When the moon is new, the moon and with the sun and not visible. Ok, so far. When the moon is full, the light from the sun reaches the moon and only produces a half moon because the sun and the moon are not opposite each other as in reality, but just distant, as with the map. The sun would reflect on only half the moon if they are at the same level. The only way for there to be a full moon is for the sun to be small (as compared to the moon) and close to us and for the moon to be large and far. As proven before, the stars are close to us, just beyond the airplanes, on a projector screen, according to this map. The moon would have to be very large and beyond this projector screen. If it is beyond the projector screen and large, wouldn't the moon never set, but just be out there and be seen when there is no light/at night always. Since this is not the case, the moon is also apart of this projector screen, but we are being conned by the projector screen, for it makes it look like the light from the sun creates moonlight, when it is the lousy projector making the light of the moon.

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1475/96/1475960646721.gif

[Uncle Salty]

My iq is kinda low, it's only 135. So someone smarter can explain it better, critique it. Doesn't the lunar phases disprove that map? When the moon is new, the moon and with the sun and not visible. Ok, so far. When the moon is full, the light from the sun reaches the moon and only produces a half moon because the sun and the moon are not opposite each other as in reality, but just distant, as with the map. The sun would reflect on only half the moon if they are at the same level. The only way for there to be a full moon is for the sun to be small (as compared to the moon) and close to us and for the moon to be large and far. As proven before, the stars are close to us, just beyond the airplanes, on a projector screen, according to this map. The moon would have to be very large and beyond this projector screen. If it is beyond the projector screen and large, wouldn't the moon never set, but just be out there and be seen when there is no light/at night always. Since this is not the case, the moon is also apart of this projector screen, but we are being conned by the projector screen, for it makes it look like the light from the sun creates moonlight, when it is the lousy projector making the light of the moon.

The moon does not reflect light from the sun.

Go shine a light on a ball. It reflects at a point, not the whole sphere.

The moon is a light generator, just like the sun. It's a cool night light. The phases were God's way of giving us months. A built in calendar.

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1457/79/1457799910427.jpg

Believe our own eyes!

:)

[Jewboo]

http://i.imgur.com/6myULwt.png


:)

[osoab]

It is obvious from that map that there is no way there could be midnight sun on the South Pole, or the Antarctic Rim if you choose that model, even at spring and autumn equinoxes, the sun would only shine for a short time.



Unfortunately, all of the "24 Hour" Antarctic vids are not 24 hours.

[osoab]

The moon does not reflect light from the sun.

Go shine a light on a ball. It reflects at a point, not the whole sphere.

The moon is a light generator, just like the sun. It's a cool night light. The phases were God's way of giving us months. A built in calendar.

Dang, Uncle Salty is in the F.E. camp.

I tried doing the moonlight temp test with an I.R. thermometer. My unscientific results were inconclusive. On an asphalt drive, I had about a .5-1 degree cooler temp in moonlight vs moonshade. On aluminum siding, I saw a .1-.3 temp increase difference. Nothing that couldn't be attributed to the cheap Harbor Freight I.R. thermometer.

I need to try it with the magnifying glass too. 2 more weeks before next full moon.

[Neuro]

Unfortunately, all of the "24 Hour" Antarctic vids are not 24 hours.

There have been thousands of people at Antarctica at research stations and adventurers, during Southern Hemisphere summer, you don't think any of those would say anything about it? And then you have poor Glass at this forum, who would only get maximum 8 hours of sunlight around Christmas (summer equinox). in Australia. Strangely I never heard him complain about it. I was there in January/February 1992, and I can't recall those long dark nights either, but it is a long time ago so my memories might have gotten skewed, by the constant round earth propaganda that engulfs humanity.

Seriously what's wrong with you on this? On pretty much everything else you seem to be able to give a sober and well reasoned response.

[Jewboo]

The moon does not reflect light from the sun.

Go shine a light on a ball. It reflects at a point, not the whole sphere.

The moon is a light generator, just like the sun. It's a cool night light. The phases were God's way of giving us months. A built in calendar.

http://i.imgur.com/hae52mv.png

[Jewboo]

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1481/99/1481994392274.jpg

[osoab]

http://i.imgur.com/6myULwt.png


:)



Why is Kurt Russel in that pic?

[osoab]

Seriously what's wrong with you on this? On pretty much everything else you seem to be able to give a sober and well reasoned response.

It's because I can't prove that it's not.

Then you look at .gov photos and realize they are all faked, photoshopped, or an "interpretation". None of what .gov shows us is on the up and up. So why believe their calcs? Why, after all we know of .gov fuckery, would we trust anything from them?

Maybe I have entered one of them loops of confirmation bias. Heck if I know.



However...



It's assholes like you that keep the good men down. :D

There is some truth there, though. Mamboni took a fucking leap to come out as F.E. I didn't until he did. I knew what the reaction would be.
The unwavering faith in .gov of both Book and yourself is shameful and embarrassing. You guys really went over the line in the chastising. Doc didn't deserve that.

Once again. Why would anyone trust anything from .gov?

[StreetsOfGold]

Why is Kurt Russel in that pic?

NASA was FOUNDED by scientists?!?!??
NO!
HOLLYWOOD PRODUCERS!
Those who specialize in turning "magic" into "reality in YOUR MIND" (only)

[Jewboo]

Why is Kurt Russel in that pic?

The Thing (also known as John Carpenter's The Thing) is a 1982 American science-fiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction_film) horror film (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_film) directed by John Carpenter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carpenter), written by Bill Lancaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lancaster), and starring Kurt Russell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Russell). The film's title refers to its primary antagonist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonist): a parasitic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism) extraterrestrial lifeform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life) that assimilates (javascript:void(0)) other organisms and in turn imitates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapeshifting) them. The Thing infiltrates an Antarctic research station, taking the appearance of the researchers that it absorbs, and paranoia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia) develops within the group.


The film is based on John W. Campbell, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Campbell,_Jr.)'s novella Who Goes There? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Goes_There%3F), which was more loosely adapted by Howard Hawks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hawks) and Christian Nyby (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Nyby) as the 1951 film The Thing from Another World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_from_Another_World).[3] (javascript:void(0)) Carpenter considers The Thing to be the first part of his Apocalypse Trilogy,[4] (javascript:void(0)) followed by Prince of Darkness (javascript:void(0)) and In the Mouth of Madness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Mouth_of_Madness). Although the films are narratively unrelated, each features a potentially apocalyptic scenario; should "The Thing" ever reach civilization, it would be only a matter of time before it consumes all life on Earth. Carpenter acknowledged that the work of H.P. Lovecraft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.P._Lovecraft) also inspired the film.[5] (javascript:void(0))[6]

(javascript:void(0))
(javascript:void(0))On June 25, 1982, The Thing opened in 840 theaters, and it was the #8 movie of the week at the box office. It remained in the top 10 for three weeks.[7] (javascript:void(0)) The lower-than-expected performance has been attributed to many factors, the main ones being the runaway success (javascript:void(0)) of Steven Spielberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg)'s E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.T._the_Extra-Terrestrial), which was also released by Universal Studios (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Studios) two weeks earlier and featured a more optimistic view of alien visitation,[8] (javascript:void(0))[9] (javascript:void(0)) and that another major adult-oriented science fiction film, Ridley Scott (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridley_Scott)'s Blade Runner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner), was released by Warner Brothers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.) the same day.[10] (javascript:void(0)) However, The Thing went on to gain a cult following (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_film).[11] (javascript:void(0)) The film was eventually reappraised by critics, and is now considered to be one of the greatest horror films ever made (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_best#Horror.2Fthrille r).[12] (javascript:void(0))[13] (javascript:void(0)) The film subsequently spawned a novelization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelization) in 1982; a comic book miniseries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book_miniseries) adaptation, entitled The Thing from Another World, published by Dark Horse Comics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Horse_Comics) in 1991; a video game sequel, also titled The Thing (javascript:void(0)), in 2002; and a prequel film (javascript:void(0)) with the same title on October 14, 2011.
:D
(javascript:void(0))

[crimethink]

There is some truth there, though. Mamboni took a fucking leap to come out as F.E. I didn't until he did. I knew what the reaction would be.
The unwavering faith in .gov of both Book and yourself is shameful and embarrassing. You guys really went over the line in the chastising. Doc didn't deserve that.

Once again. Why would anyone trust anything from .gov?

Ah, so the truth of the matter is this:

Government is evil and government always lies, so, because the government says the Earth is round, the Earth must be flat.

False logic, of course, but essentially the kernel of the matter.

Book's graphic about the eclipse is the false logic taken to the extreme (NASA "didn't want you to know 'the truth,' which is why they told you to not look at the eclipse with a naked eye").

I trust my eyes and my sense. I don't rely on government or "experts" to tell me what the facts are. A spherical Earth is self-evident, as has been explained how many times in this thread? You can watch ships fall below the horizon as they sail way from you. You can watch orbital objects float over you and then disappear under the horizon. You can project which satellite will go where and when it will appear again as it comes around the giant ball.

[crimethink]

NASA was FOUNDED by scientists?!?!??
NO!
HOLLYWOOD PRODUCERS!
Those who specialize in turning "magic" into "reality in YOUR MIND" (only)

NASA was founded by bureaucrats, who employed Jewish Holowood producers (like Stanley Kubrick).

[monty]

Ah, so the truth of the matter is this:

Government is evil and government always lies, so, because the government says the Earth is round, the Earth must be flat.

False logic, of course, but essentially the kernel of the matter.

Book's graphic about the eclipse is the false logic taken to the extreme (NASA "didn't want you to know 'the truth,' which is why they told you to not look at the eclipse with a naked eye").

I trust my eyes and my sense. I don't rely on government or "experts" to tell me what the facts are. A spherical Earth is self-evident, as has been explained how many times in this thread? You can watch ships fall below the horizon as they sail way from you. You can watch orbital objects float over you and then disappear under the horizon. You can project which satellite will go where and when it will appear again as it comes around the giant ball.
And you can watch the stars in Chile at 34º S. Latitude appear to rotate around the south pole the same way the Big Dipper apears to rotate around the north pole in Nevada at 34º N. Latitude. I have seen that.

[Bigjon]

It's because I can't prove that it's not.

Then you look at .gov photos and realize they are all faked, photoshopped, or an "interpretation". None of what .gov shows us is on the up and up. So why believe their calcs? Why, after all we know of .gov fuckery, would we trust anything from them?

Maybe I have entered one of them loops of confirmation bias. Heck if I know.



However...



It's assholes like you that keep the good men down. :D

There is some truth there, though. Mamboni took a fucking leap to come out as F.E. I didn't until he did. I knew what the reaction would be.
The unwavering faith in .gov of both Book and yourself is shameful and embarrassing. You guys really went over the line in the chastising. Doc didn't deserve that.

Once again. Why would anyone trust anything from .gov?

Please take a panoramic picture of the southern cross and the north star Polaris. Should be no problem if the Earth is flat. Then post it.

Where I am in southern Minnesota I can't see the southern cross, but hey you guys will believe anything.

[osoab]

Please take a panoramic picture of the southern cross and the north star Polaris. Should be no problem if the Earth is flat. Then post it.

Where I am in southern Minnesota I can't see the southern cross, but hey you guys will believe anything.

It's perspective. You are unable to see that far away. The Southern Cross is beyond your vanishing point even when aided.

Remember F.E. theory also says Earth is the same size, everything else is smaller and closer. It's a 25,000 miles diameter disk not an oblate spheroid with a fat diameter of 25,000 miles.

[Dogman]

The cross maybe as you say, tho I doubt it, I have seen it along with the Magellanic clouds (huge compared to everything else) which stand out like a pimple large and small, in the night sky. Flat can see them south to north, but does not explain the seasonal rotation of the sky, Orion winter/ the milky way summer. Reverse the seasons depending which hemisphere you live in, or better said on.

;D

[osoab]

Ah, so the truth of the matter is this:

Government is evil and government always lies, so, because the government says the Earth is round, the Earth must be flat.

False logic, of course, but essentially the kernel of the matter.

Don't be willfully obtuse.



Book's graphic about the eclipse is the false logic taken to the extreme (NASA "didn't want you to know 'the truth,' which is why they told you to not look at the eclipse with a naked eye").

I trust my eyes and my sense. I don't rely on government or "experts" to tell me what the facts are. A spherical Earth is self-evident, as has been explained how many times in this thread? You can watch ships fall below the horizon as they sail way from you. You can watch orbital objects float over you and then disappear under the horizon. You can project which satellite will go where and when it will appear again as it comes around the giant ball.

About sungazing. Yes it is a real thing. It is something you must gradually adjust yourself to the stress/power. Do some research.

About the eclipse...

Here's a breakdown of NASA's eclipse photos from the guy that videoed the Lunar Wave.

He's not F.E. He just says NASA is full of shit in every sense of the word.

Is his breakdown baloney?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UurQ2aleXAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UurQ2aleXAQ


Here's is his Pluto breakdown. He discusses it in the above video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfIe_KsLpS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfIe_KsLpS0

[Dogman]

kudos moose man, did not think u had it in you...

Carry on !

;D

[osoab]

And you can watch the stars in Chile at 34º S. Latitude appear to rotate around the south pole the same way the Big Dipper apears to rotate around the north pole in Nevada at 34º N. Latitude. I have seen that.

The dome.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hffevu88I0M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hffevu88I0M

[osoab]

The Thing (also known as John Carpenter's The Thing) is a 1982 American science-fiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction_film) horror film (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_film) directed by John Carpenter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carpenter), written by Bill Lancaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lancaster), and starring Kurt Russell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Russell). The film's title refers to its primary antagonist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonist): a parasitic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism) extraterrestrial lifeform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life) that assimilates (http://javascript<strong></strong>:void(0)) other organisms and in turn imitates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapeshifting) them. The Thing infiltrates an Antarctic research station, taking the appearance of the researchers that it absorbs, and paranoia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia) develops within the group.



(http://javascript<strong></strong>:void(0))

Yeah, I knew that. .

They didn't film in the Antarctic. Wonder why?

(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)The Thing (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/?ref_=ttloc_loc_tt) (1982) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)Filming Locations (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)

[osoab]

kudos moose man, did not think u had it in you...

Carry on !

;D

Just getting started. 2x4s don't work over the internet either. :D

[Dogman]

Just getting started. 2x4s don't work over the internet either. :D


Dam good question !

Who can run faster ? ;D

9271

Peace bro !

9272

[crimethink]

"We are rather pleased with our growth rate. As it stands, the Flat Earth Society has members from around the globe."

-- President of the Flat Earth Society

[crimethink]

Don't be willfully obtuse.


Hey now, I'm actually on your side. No, I don't subscribe to the flat earth nonsense, but I'm trying to give you an explanation for your peculiar belief that is apart from morbid psychosis.




He's not F.E. He just says NASA is full of shit in every sense of the word.


Good thing I don't count on Never A Straight Answer for facts.

What is the motive for the alleged myth of a spherical Earth? What can anyone possibly gain from peddling such a thing? I mean, other "conspiracy theories," there are clear motivations involved, from money to power to world control (e.g., the Holocaust™). No such motivation exists with a spherical Earth being a lie.

Why?

Is there something we're not supposed to see over the edge of the flat Earth?

:rolleyes:

[crimethink]

Yeah, I knew that. .

They didn't film in the Antarctic. Wonder why?

(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)The Thing (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/?ref_=ttloc_loc_tt) (1982) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)Filming Locations (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/locations)

Same reason you don't film in the Gobi Desert if the Mojave will do.

[Jewboo]

Mamboni took a fucking leap to come out as F.E. I didn't until he did. I knew what the reaction would be.
The unwavering faith in .gov of both Book and yourself is shameful and embarrassing.
You guys really went over the line in the chastising. Doc didn't deserve that.



https://media2.giphy.com/media/6zuZbkhohb5cc/giphy.gif

Chastising? I'm still waiting for a serious effort of logical persuasion by Mamboni.

http://www.naturamediterraneo.com/forum/faccine/51.gif



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=676&amp;v=VbVmM9ymjxA

[Bigjon]

It's perspective. You are unable to see that far away. The Southern Cross is beyond your vanishing point even when aided.

Remember F.E. theory also says Earth is the same size, everything else is smaller and closer. It's a 25,000 miles diameter disk not an oblate spheroid with a fat diameter of 25,000 miles.

Lets see the distance according to astronomers to Polaris is 433 LY's and The four main stars that form the asterism are Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta Crucis. Also known as Acrux, Alpha Crucis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Crucis) is a triple star 321 light-years from Earth.

But we cant see Alpha from the area inside the equator because the additional 20,000 miles makes it too far away.

Oh now I get it, it's soooo obvious.:rolleyes:

[osoab]

Lets see the distance according to astronomers to Polaris is 433 LY's and The four main stars that form the asterism are Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta Crucis. Also known as Acrux, Alpha Crucis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Crucis) is a triple star 321 light-years from Earth.

But we cant see Alpha from the area inside the equator because the additional 20,000 miles makes it too far away.

Oh now I get it, it's soooo obvious.:rolleyes:

The F.E. model has the "stars" much closer.

[Bigjon]

The F.E. model has the "stars" much closer.

How much closer, that is the question?

When you get closer anybody can use basic trig to find out the distance to objects like the moon or the sun and the planets.

[osoab]

How much closer, that is the question?

When you get closer anybody can use basic trig to find out the distance to objects like the moon or the sun and the planets.

I don't think the Mayans were using calculus. :o

Let me dig around on numbers. Might be a day or two.

[Jewboo]

http://www.naturamediterraneo.com/forum/faccine/51.gif




http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1504/23/1504231482716.jpg

[mamboni]

So simple - open your mind. To clarify the key point: on a globe earth, when the observer rises the horizon must stay at a constant height relative to the observer, because the observer is always looking at the crest of the curve of the sphere, it's highest point relative to the observer. Capeche?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb3HsUKGMD4

[Jewboo]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg

Witnessed it in Boise on the 21st with my own eyes Mamboni. How do you explain what I saw?

:)

[PatColo]

So simple - open your mind. To clarify the key point: on a globe earth, when the observer rises the horizon must stay at a constant height relative to the observer, because the observer is always looking at the crest of the curve of the sphere, it's highest point relative to the observer. Capeche?


heh, I was starting to worry about the Mambo... http://gold-silver.us/forum/search.php?searchid=3118338 his first post (above) since 6/29, > 2 months! :cool:

[mamboni]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg

Witnessed it in Boise on the 21st with my own eyes Mamboni. How do you explain what I saw?

:)I can't. Nobody can. All we can do is conjecture, if we are honest with ourselves vis-a-vis our limited knowledge.

[mamboni]

heh, I was starting to worry about the Mambo... http://gold-silver.us/forum/search.php?searchid=3118338 his first post (above) since 6/29, > 2 months! :cool:You know Pat, I always [like] you <in my best Tony Montana>.

Since you ask, I am the best I have been my entire life, cross my heart. At around, 2:30 PM, after devouring several chapters of Dr. Wallach et al's fine tome "Epigenetics" whilst in small park enjoying the sun and air [nary a chemtrail was seen], I drove home for a short sojourn with my two well-domesticated cats. Within 15 minutes of lying down, the thought materialized in my mind that I needed to purchase three pairs of jeans. I drove down to Old Navy for their Labor Day Sale in 13 minutes, walked to the clearance rack right there in front of me as I entered the store whereupon three pairs of jeans in my size were in the first five pairs of jeans hanging. I dutify took these three and myself to the changing booth and tried them on: each one an "oh so rare" perfect fit. I returned to my trousers, and walked to the counter and paid $45 for three excellent finely made Old Navy jeans. That's all true and emblematic of how my life has been going of late, Lord be praised.

[Jewboo]

I can't. Nobody can. All we can do is conjecture, if we are honest with ourselves vis-a-vis our limited knowledge.

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-maturity-is-a-stage-of-life-when-you-don-t-see-eye-to-eye-but-can-walk-arm-in-arm-claude-mcdonald-330960.jpg

Can we continue to honestly disagree then?

:)

[mamboni]

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-maturity-is-a-stage-of-life-when-you-don-t-see-eye-to-eye-but-can-walk-arm-in-arm-claude-mcdonald-330960.jpg

Can we continue to honestly disagree then?

:)

Sounds like a partial surrender. No, there is no compromise with factual knowledge. The earth is, by thousands of measurements done by thousands of investigators over hundreds of years MEASURABLY flat. Can your pigheaded mind understand that the empirical databank of objective scientific measurements proves that the earth is flat. It has been proved to me, a trained scientist, to my objective satisfaction, one thousand times over. I don't believe it. I know it. It is flat.

[PatColo]

Witnessed it in Boise on the 21st with my own eyes Mamboni. How do you explain what I saw?
:)

this vlogger Richie from Bawston is an FEer; and he's got some wild suspicions re what the eclipse REALLY was... just skim back through the titles; I didn't watch any of them, coz FE vs BE makes me ZZZZZ.
https://www.youtube.com/user/27TUBGUY/videos

example:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eetNr3FF6Gk/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEXCNACELwBSFryq4qpAwkIARUAAIhCGAE=&rs=AOn4CLACAh43fEu8OZuMPH3R3jbUAKrrAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eetNr3FF6Gk) 6:16
Solar Eclipse was Simply a Test:TURNING OFF THE SUN. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eetNr3FF6Gk)

50,391 views
1 week ago



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wueSJOiJM5M/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEXCNACELwBSFryq4qpAwkIARUAAIhCGAE=&rs=AOn4CLA0XqpELmovtuhRMxtZSNWkHqQNgA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wueSJOiJM5M) 4:20
Solar Simulator and an Eclipse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wueSJOiJM5M)

34,136 views
1 week ago

[Neuro]

Sounds like a partial surrender. No, there is no compromise with factual knowledge. The earth is, by thousands of measurements done by thousands of investigators over hundreds of years MEASURABLY flat. Can your pigheaded mind understand that the empirical databank of objective scientific measurements proves that the earth is flat. It has been proved to me, a trained scientist, to my objective satisfaction, one thousand times over. I don't believe it. I know it. It is flat.

Saying three times that it is flat isn't proof at all, you should know that as "a trained scientist". You haven't explained why daylight is longer than 6 hours in Australia.

[crimethink]

Sounds like a partial surrender. No, there is no compromise with factual knowledge. The earth is, by thousands of measurements done by thousands of investigators over hundreds of years MEASURABLY flat. Can your pigheaded mind understand that the empirical databank of objective scientific measurements proves that the earth is flat. It has been proved to me, a trained scientist, to my objective satisfaction, one thousand times over. I don't believe it. I know it. It is flat.

LOL

Proving that being a "trained scientist" doesn't mean shit, actually.

The number of genuine empirical, objective scientific measurements that prove the Earth is flat = ZERO, ZILCH.

Book offered you a peace offering, and you slapped him.

[crimethink]

Saying three times that it is flat isn't proof at all, you should know that as "a trained scientist". Your haven't explained why daylight is longer than 6 hours in Australia.

His claim to be a "trained scientist" as weight given to the lunacy of a "Flat Earth" is one of the most shameful appeals to authority I've witnessed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

All it proves is that someone with an alphabet appended to their name is arrogant, even narcissistic, and demanding of worship. And these so-called "scientists" wonder why millions have written their "expertise" off as utter bullshit.

[Jewboo]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg


I can't. Nobody can. All we can do is conjecture, if we are honest with ourselves vis-a-vis our limited knowledge.

https://www.exploratorium.edu/sites/default/files/SolarEclipse.jpg

Everybody can understand and explain it except apparently Mamboni, MD PhD

:rolleyes: a "trained scientist"

[Jewboo]

Book offered you a peace offering, and you slapped him



:'(

[Neuro]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg



https://www.exploratorium.edu/sites/default/files/SolarEclipse.jpg

Everybody can understand and explain it except apparently Mamboni, MD PhD

:rolleyes: a "trained scientist"
It really ain't that difficult to comprehend unless you believe the sun is a spotlight just a few miles from flat earth. Facts be damned.

[Jewboo]

It really ain't that difficult to comprehend unless you believe the sun is a spotlight just a few miles from flat earth. Facts be damned.

http://www.thecreatorscalendar.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-earth-lunar-eclipse-NOT-1.jpg

Trained scientist Mamboni MD PhD can't comprehend our recent August 21st eclipse with his flat Earth model.

:rolleyes:

[osoab]

Digging around for some hard core numbers and came across this.

The bottom comment is from the author of the video. Some of the photos shown in the vid are the authors.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbPu69xRks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbPu69xRks


A collection provided by me friends and colleagues in the field of astronomy. My movie converter has decreased the quality of the photos. I will upload more once i can convert to 4K propperly



Let me sum this up in 1 comment. Ive been looking up for more then 30 years with a variety of high end optics. I know ALMOST everything up there fits a spherical earth like a glove. Ive been there and used pretty much every argument there is in my period as viscous flat earth debunker. And they were all useless arguments the moment i pointed my telescopes at the horizon. Thats why ive stopped arguing with folks who use the same arguments i did....theres really no point. Looking up to determine what's under your feet is the same as looking at your feet to determine the nature of the universe

In short no curve and its poooof ball...

[osoab]

:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLi7V_RdHqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLi7V_RdHqc

[Jewboo]

Digging around for some hard core numbers and came across this...


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg

Oh. You can't explain the recent eclipse either.

:D I'm still waiting for Mamboni to explain the eclipse

[Bigjon]

This is a thread for morons who can't use logic to see the Earth is a ball. No matter where you are you as the observer are at the high point of your view and if you climb higher you can see farther, which translates into the horizon falls away in the distance.
One of boni's vids tried to claim this was proof of the flat earth, another moron heard from.

[Neuro]

Digging around for some hard core numbers and came across this.

The bottom comment is from the author of the video. Some of the photos shown in the vid are the authors.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbPu69xRks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbPu69xRks

Does his flat earth model explain why average daylight is 12 hours/day all across the earth?

[Santa]

It really ain't that difficult to comprehend unless you believe the sun is a spotlight just a few miles from flat earth. Facts be damned.

Who changes the light bulb? Where do they keep the ladder? If the sky is a dome, who cleans the glass? Is there a secret race of astro-janitors?

[mamboni]

Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88

[Jewboo]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c358b6e4b01b8adb4d5870/59208f0fd482e93bf8182c58/59208f1b1e5b6c6e5a874f6a/1495306428960/TSE2017_PopulationByBuffer_100miles.jpg

Oh. You can't explain the recent eclipse either.

:D I'm still waiting for Mamboni to explain the eclipse


Bump

[crimethink]

Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88

mamboni, since you are a trained scientist, with many published papers to your name and alphabetic suffixes, can you point us to your "Earth is Flat" work in peer-reviewed academic journals?

Surely, you've had great success with publishing these countless empirical facts in several journals, such as Geosphere, the Annals of the Association of American Geographers, and Journal of Geography?

https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/geosphere

http://www.aag.org/cs/publications/journals/annals

http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/rjog20

[Neuro]

Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88
Connect the insane idea of flat earth with rational anti-zionism, and you have effectively poisoned the well.

https://americanzionism.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/is-a-flat-earth-antisemitic/

[crimethink]

Connect the insane idea of flat earth with rational anti-zionism, and you have effectively poisoned the well.

https://americanzionism.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/is-a-flat-earth-antisemitic/

That's very interesting, since the Official Saint Adolphian conception of the Earth is spherical:

https://i.imgur.com/Fjvp4L2.jpg

Hitler, Mussolini, and friends at the Berghof.

[Neuro]

That's very interesting, since the Official Saint Adolphian conception of the Earth is spherical:

https://i.imgur.com/Fjvp4L2.jpg

Hitler, Mussolini, and friends at the Berghof.
Clearly Mr Dubay is running the errands of the zionists in discrediting anti-zionism with his absurd Idea the earth is flat. Same as David Icke with intermingling his otherwise correct information with the Idea that there are reptilians ruling the earth.

Poisoning the Well!

[Jewboo]

mamboni, since you are a trained scientist, with many published papers to your name and alphabetic suffixes, can you point us to your "Earth is Flat" work in peer-reviewed academic journals?

Surely, you've had great success with publishing these countless empirical facts in several journals, such as Geosphere, the Annals of the Association of American Geographers, and Journal of Geography?

https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/geosphere

http://www.aag.org/cs/publications/journals/annals

http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/rjog20

https://i.redd.it/grgg9dsboo9z.jpg
THE EARTH IS FLAT AND I'M A TRAINED SCIENTIST

:rolleyes:





















https://vk.vkfaces.com/638525/v638525151/21753/8V4V0rwPoK8.jpg
perfectly safe for your child

:rolleyes:

[crimethink]

https://vk.vkfaces.com/638525/v638525151/21753/8V4V0rwPoK8.jpg
perfectly safe for your child


I shall reiterate that poor mamboni was not insane prior to his taking the needle to keep his job.

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=960&amp;v=9M6Zvi-fFv4

Live-streamed five hours ago today in Florida.

At 16:00 the curvature of Earth is apparent Mamboni...

:)

[crimethink]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=960&v=9M6Zvi-fFv4

Live-streamed five hours ago today in Florida.

At 16:00 the curvature of Earth is apparent Mamboni...

:)

That video was made in Hollywood. Oh, wait, it's actually lens distortion. No, it's just CGI.

[osoab]

Live-streamed five hours ago today in Florida.

At 16:00 the curvature of Earth is apparent Mamboni...

:)

Well, what if they were turned 90 degrees to the plane? Do you know what type of camera and lens? That would be helpful.

Now, after watching from 15 minutes on, something seems wonky. Not going to mention that actual liftoff started at 13:00 minutes. Oops, guess I did. Might as well mention all of the cgi at the beginning. You only see the super secret airforce plane land.
Everything else is an animation at the beginning.

So, are they launching this thing back towards land to account for the rotation of ball earth?

There is some sweet editing at the launch from wide view that looks straight up/curving slightly away and then we get mostly a horizontal view. I don't know why they would change the camera angle for appearances. Then they zoom out and show the massive fire blowing out and then switch to the down view from the rocket perspective. You don't see any flame. You see darkish waves, but the flames would be too close to the camera not to obstruct the view. The flames should be visible.

Now they are up in "space". Goes up, moves 90 degrees to horizontal, then they say they are moving it to get ahead? So they are moving faster than the rotation of earth and then rotating back for landing?

So the landing show. They keep the left side on the rocket camera. The right side shows a very wide, very far back view of the landing pad with the object moving back to ground. We even see flames. :o Then magically, we are at touch down with a close up camera view. Why no close up camera for the full landing? Seriously. The near camera view is all dust/smoke. I see maybe some hint of flame/color flash, but dust/smoke obscures everything.

I was also watching the clouds, we don't get a long view of them for a great length of time, but some things about the clouds stood out to me. In "space view", the clouds didn't appear to me to move or change. When we get the close up camera at touch down the clouds seem to move blocky. Like, move, stop, move, stop...

Now why are they launching a rocket today when things should be buttoned up for the big storm?

[Jewboo]

Now why are they launching a rocket today when things should be buttoned up for the big storm?

Live-streamed today.

:)

[Jewboo]

http://i.imgur.com/amokmD5.jpg

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1506/82/1506826012912.jpg

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1505/00/1505004926945.png

[Jewboo]

https://i.imgur.com/lQa2Iwx.jpg


:)

[Dogman]

:)


Tis mind boggling methinks most minds cannot grasp, how small our solar system is completed to this galaxy and universe.

I still enjoy getting away from light polution on a clear night and starry night and be humbled.

[Neuro]

https://i.imgur.com/lQa2Iwx.jpg


:)


Hahaha in your model the sun is bigger than the entire universe

[Dogman]

Hahaha in your model the sun is bigger than the entire universe ?

Seems fairly close to scale in size.

You may need to leave toking the hash .

Tho if memory serves IT is some very fine shit.. Tho pakistan with gold tax stamps on the brick was in the day the best.

;D

[Neuro]

?

Seems fairly close to scale in size.

You may need to leave toking the hash .

Tho if memory serves IT is some very fine shit.. Tho pakistan with gold tax stamps on the brick was in the day the best.

;D

On some the fine sarcasm re flat earthism is lost...

[Dogman]

On some the fine sarcasm re flat earthism is lost...


Gasp !

You are right !

Lunacy should always be preserved !

Dontyaknow!

9376

[Neuro]

Gasp !

You are right !

Lunacy should always be preserved !

Dontyaknow!

9376

Hold on to the firmament Dogman! There is not anything beyond it!

[Dogman]

Hold on to the firmament Dogman! There is not anything beyond it! That is known, I agree. Think this we just be microbes living on our time lines, when where we exist as microbes , for us by our measurements are in eons but where we really live only maybe a second of so has pasted.

Hoot!

Matter of prescriptive on which reality is right !

Dontyaknow..

Who can prove anything wrong, unless it can be reliably duplicated ?

Peace sucker !

Do some deep thinking.....9378

;D

Take two aspirins for the headache that will result and do not call me in the morning !

;D

[StreetsOfGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUmteoWZ6dU

[StreetsOfGold]

The SCIENCE behind the spinning ball earth lie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdizpQQMtnY

[Uncle Salty]

That video was made in Hollywood. Oh, wait, it's actually lens distortion. No, it's just CGI.

Yep. Bad CGI. Good enough to trick retards though...

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1509/92/1509923953987.jpg

Just found this on 4chan and thought Mamboni might get a chuckle.

:)

[Neuro]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1509/92/1509923953987.jpg

Just found this on 4chan and thought Mamboni might get a chuckle.

:)

I suppose one could argue that gravity prevents that from happening...

Anyway it looks like a spiral galaxy, and that is where the electrical vortex theory making far more sense in throwing stars out of the center of galaxy, after combining protons and electrons drawn in from plasma clouds in space in the center of the vortex. Instead of having a supermassive black hole pulling everything in, and you don't have to invent a bunch of nonsense like dark matter and dark energy to explain how it is all connected...

Are you paying attention Goldiestein? No satanical dark matter/energy required...

[Jewboo]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Irving_Langmuir.jpg/680px-Irving_Langmuir.jpg
Irving Langmuir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Langmuir) coined the phrase pathological science in a talk in 1953.

Pathological Science

Pathological science is an area of research where "people are tricked into false results ... by subjective effects, wishful thinking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking) or threshold interactions."[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-2) The term was first[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-3) used by Irving Langmuir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Langmuir), Nobel Prize (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize)-winning chemist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemist), during a 1953 colloquium at the Knolls Research Laboratory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knolls_Atomic_Power_Laboratory). Langmuir said a pathological science is an area of research that simply will not "go away"—long after it was given up on as "false" by the majority of scientists in the field. He called pathological science "the science of things that aren't so".[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-Park2000-4)[full citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#What_information_to_inclu de)] [5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-5) Bart Simon lists it among practices pretending to be science: "categories ... such as ... pseudoscience (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience), amateur science, deviant or fraudulent science, bad science, junk science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_science), and popular science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_science) ... pathological science, cargo-cult science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science), and voodoo science".[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science#cite_note-6) Examples of pathological science may include Martian canals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canal), N-rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray), polywater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater), and cold fusion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion). The theories and conclusions behind all of these examples are currently rejected or disregarded by the majority of scientists.

Pathological science, as defined by Langmuir, is a psychological process in which a scientist, originally conforming to the scientific method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method), unconsciously veers from that method, and begins a pathological process of wishful data interpretation (see the observer-expectancy effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer-expectancy_effect) and cognitive bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias)). Some characteristics of pathological science are:



The maximum effect that is observed is produced by a causative agent of barely detectable intensity, and the magnitude of the effect is substantially independent of the intensity of the cause.

The effect is of a magnitude that remains close to the limit of detectability, or many measurements are necessary because of the very low statistical significance of the results.
There are claims of great accuracy.
Fantastic theories contrary to experience are suggested.
Criticisms are met by ad hoc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hoc) excuses.
The ratio of supporters to critics rises and then falls gradually to oblivion.

Langmuir never intended the term to be rigorously defined; it was simply the title of his talk on some examples of "weird science". As with any attempt to define the scientific endeavor, examples and counterexamples can always be found.

MORE HERE

:)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science)

[Horn]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/cf/b6/7dcfb693995738bdc65933a05231f366--sunday-night-night-in.jpg

[Jewboo]

No one has a photo or video of the end of the flat earth AFAIK. Do you have any proof of curvature outside of NASA fake fisheye photos?



https://i.imgur.com/aHJr9kM.jpg


Here you go Mamboni.

:)

[osoab]

They have yet to post their documentation. Website says "coming soon". Don't know why they didn't have everything ready with the video release. Anyway, suck it globe tards.


T H E C O N V E X E A R T H (http://convexearth.org/#inicio)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdMMmclGVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdMMmclGVc (https://youtu.be/McdMMmclGVc)

[osoab]

Post Edit. The above post is junk.

The lead from the below got his ideas from an alien in the bushes. They still haven't posted documentation. Nothing they claim can be proven and should be disregarded at this point.

Globetards can still suck it though. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIajgp1IC7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIajgp1IC7s

[Neuro]

They have yet to post their documentation. Website says "coming soon". Don't know why they didn't have everything ready with the video release. Anyway, suck it globe tards.


T H E C O N V E X E A R T H (http://convexearth.org/#inicio)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdMMmclGVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdMMmclGVc (https://youtu.be/McdMMmclGVc)

It started off with this...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5Ssy2kN1lLWGfSAMRaLRQBWirsjhHH W182-J80tgw4KwFRrI
I think that is even more true for LIES

Funny how they use the Global Positioning System to prove the earth is not a globe... ;D

[osoab]

It started off with this...

I think that is even more true for LIES

Funny how they use the Global Positioning System to prove the earth is not a globe... ;D

It's actually the Ground Positioning System, based on the old Lorenz system. GPS doesn't work out in the middle of the ocean. Talking B.F.E. ocean.

Satellites are just balloons or plans. :)

[osoab]

Moving the F.E. "discussion" from this thread Jew York Times tweets truth, then retracts (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?99293-Jew-York-Times-tweets-truth-then-retracts) back to the more appropriate area.



Exactly, and the people who believe the flat earth diversion are the dumbest people on the planet. We don't need more of them, yet they vote and that's what TPTB want. Votes. Osoab is right though....repeat a lie long enough, it becomes a false "fact" that people believe, and they vote based upon those false facts.


Solid, the vitriol is bad stuff. F.E. really can cause some severe reactions in many. You will notice that the vast majority of F.E. debunkers on jewtube swear, throw out ad hominem attacks at every turn, and shout down any that attempt to disagree with or disrupt their prescribed "truth".



Osoab, how can a man sail around the world on an East compass heading, and end up on the same spot he started? That can't happen with a flat earth. What do flat earth believers say about compasses? Compasses are proven navigational tools, they are honest, simple and can not be corrupted. They will get you where you want to go, if you know how to use them. I figure flat earthers have never seen a damn compass in their whole life. This is why I think flat earth believers are the dumbest people around.

Solid, you can go around a "disc shape" and still head East and still have the compass point North.

I tried to disprove the crap. I couldn't. It started with the curvature formula, 8 inches per mile squared. I thought that was just complete horse hockey. I did an autocad model to true scale. Do you know what I learned? The curvature formal ain't horse hockey.

Solid, you are the perfect guy to do some curvature tests. Next time you head out to sea, make sure you bring your best binoculars. I'm talking 30 to 50 miles in distance. If the water is relatively calm, take out the binoculars and start looking back towards shore. If you know your approximate distance and elevations of local land marks, you will know if the curve is there.

So to add more to this thread...

Nice intro in the video. From the 2018 Canadian International Flat Earth Conference.

Mark was challenged to give 5 questions to pose to a physicist. He reads out the 5 questions and notes that no answer was given to any of the 5. You should know that Mark Sargent has had a challenge out there for any "scientist" to debate him and prove a globe earth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI--2Tcfqs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI--2Tcfqs0

[osoab]

No it won’t. A lie repeated is a damn lie. The sun sets at the horizon every evening, that’s a fact, and you can see it on every cloudless day you have a clear view of the horizon. You need to disregard every knowledge of basic physics that scientists have come up with the last couple of millennia to come to the notion the earth is flat.

Not teaching kids math is a great way to stimulate nonsense like the flat earth diversion among the ignorant masses.


Funny, math is how I became a Flat Earther.

[osoab]

So I came across this video. I don't recall seeing any claims of the such before. I don't recall seeing videos with the scientist and his assistant shown at the beginning before either.

The jist of the video is that mountain forming can occur in "an instant" with very fast lava/mud flows either above or below water.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQXj5ZSohsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQXj5ZSohsQ

[Neuro]

Funny, math is how I became a Flat Earther.

No that is not funny...

This is FUNNY!:


https://newhampshire.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/flat-earth.jpg

;D


Still no clue as to why the sun is setting at the horizon? You really don’t need to know too much math to figure that out...

[osoab]

No that is not funny...

This is FUNNY!:




;D


Still no clue as to why the sun is setting at the horizon? You really don’t need to know too much math to figure that out...

Not one real flat earther has anything to do with the F.E. Society. I have never been to that website.

As far as the horizon, you have distortion due to atmospheric conditions. Perspective, though, is the critical issue. Our perspective dictates horizon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tci-J3hBrj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tci-J3hBrj4

[Neuro]

Not one real flat earther has anything to do with the F.E. Society. I have never been to that website.

As far as the horizon, you have distortion due to atmospheric conditions. Perspective, though, is the critical issue. Our perspective dictates horizon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tci-J3hBrj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tci-J3hBrj4

Yes but why would the sun go towards the horizon line when according to flat Earth models it is 15° above the horizon line when it is farthest away. On the corridor view (the video you posted showed repeatedly) if the ceiling is supposed to be the sky the sun will according to flatearthism be somewhere 3/4 down the corridor when it is furthest away, not at the corridors end, which would be the horizon. I have in this thread posted photos from an evening flight where the sun is under the horizon line of the clouds. It means it is in “the floor” of the “perspective corridor”.

You have been had man!

[osoab]

Yes but why would the sun go towards the horizon line when according to flat Earth models it is 15° above the horizon line when it is farthest away. On the corridor view (the video you posted showed repeatedly) if the ceiling is supposed to be the sky the sun will according to flatearthism be somewhere 3/4 down the corridor when it is furthest away, not at the corridors end, which would be the horizon. I have in this thread posted photos from an evening flight where the sun is under the horizon line of the clouds. It means it is in “the floor” of the “perspective corridor”.

You have been had man!

The sun will always go from horizon to horizon. The horizon is just the convergence point of our viewing perspective. If you use magnification, the horizon moves further away. The sun is moving in circular path that narrows and widens with the seasons. The sun rise is watching the sun come towards you, it sweeps overhead (the angle to viewing dependent on latitude and time of year), and moves away from our view. It's rather quite simple. You just need to look at it from a different "perspective".

I thought I explained the cloud pics back when. The higher you go in elevation, your horizon line increases.

[Neuro]

The sun will always go from horizon to horizon. The horizon is just the convergence point of our viewing perspective. If you use magnification, the horizon moves further away. The sun is moving in circular path that narrows and widens with the seasons. The sun rise is watching the sun come towards you, it sweeps overhead (the angle to viewing dependent on latitude and time of year), and moves away from our view. It's rather quite simple. You just need to look at it from a different "perspective".

I thought I explained the cloud pics back when. The higher you go in elevation, your horizon line increases.

LOL but the sun is below the horizon line of the clouds...

[Bigjon]

The sun will always go from horizon to horizon. The horizon is just the convergence point of our viewing perspective. If you use magnification, the horizon moves further away. The sun is moving in circular path that narrows and widens with the seasons. The sun rise is watching the sun come towards you, it sweeps overhead (the angle to viewing dependent on latitude and time of year), and moves away from our view. It's rather quite simple. You just need to look at it from a different "perspective".

I thought I explained the cloud pics back when. The higher you go in elevation, your horizon line increases.

If it were flat in would stay the same, this is the perfect description of a line tangent to a circle. The farther the observation point is from the circle the greater the amount of circumference seen.

As far as the photo problems, there is the factor of gravitational lensing, maybe it might account for being able to see further because the light is bent by the earth's gravity?

[osoab]

LOL but the sun is below the horizon line of the clouds...

The sun is far away. The clouds are near you. It is all about perspective.

[Neuro]

The sun is far away. The clouds are near you. It is all about perspective.

It is in the “floor” of the horizon line, not in the “ceiling” any longer. The clouds were beneath my flight and the sun was beneath the clouds illuminating them from below.

[Neuro]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1437/06/1437063638721.gif

Not with Mamboni's map.

:rolleyes:
Explain how a day on average is 12 hours in Australia or Argentina in this model. Explain midnight sun in Antarctica during summer.

[StreetsOfGold]

How do you BEND water on a "ball" earth?
Water always seeks LEVEL, ALWAYS, this is REAL science!!

At the same time keeping it (trillions of tons of it, no less) "glued" to the earth and it's supposed to be spinning at 1,000 mph??!
Yet...... a butterfly can gently fly away?

The spinning ball earth is a CON job and a lie out of hell!!

[Bigjon]

How do you BEND water on a "ball" earth?
Water always seeks LEVEL, ALWAYS, this is REAL science!!

At the same time keeping it (trillions of tons of it, no less) "glued" to the earth and it's supposed to be spinning at 1,000 mph??!
Yet...... a butterfly can gently fly away?

The spinning ball earth is a CON job and a lie out of hell!!

The spinning ball is an isolated system which can be viewed as a stationary system or in other words not spinning at all while the whole universe spins around it. It is relative motion.

You have been conned.

[Neuro]

Explain how a day on average is 12 hours in Australia or Argentina in this model. Explain midnight sun in Antarctica during summer.

osoab?

[Neuro]

How do you BEND water on a "ball" earth?
Water always seeks LEVEL, ALWAYS, this is REAL science!!

At the same time keeping it (trillions of tons of it, no less) "glued" to the earth and it's supposed to be spinning at 1,000 mph??!
Yet...... a butterfly can gently fly away?

The spinning ball earth is a CON job and a lie out of hell!!

Inertia or rather friction keeps the air from spinning largely out of control. Though you do get winds higher up in the atmosphere that is affected by the spin of the earth more (jet streams)... outside of atmosphere there is mostly a vacuum so no turbulence there (or from space). Water is kept close to level with earth due to gravity. The gravity of the moon and to a smaller extent the sun affect it though (tides)... And yes the spinning of the earth do tend to throw out the water, it is not a perfect sphere, the poles are flatter and gravity is slightly less around the equator compared to the poles (less than a % difference). The effects of the centripetal effect from earths rotation is quite easily calculated with basic math (high school math). And the calculation corresponds to the measured reality.

[Dogman]

Close or right on?

Dam good explanation! As science at this time
Understands

Kudos!

[osoab]

osoab?


Explain how a day on average is 12 hours in Australia or Argentina in this model. Explain midnight sun in Antarctica during summer.

Apologies, I did start a reply to your earlier comment and deleted it and went to bed, well had another drink and the went to bed.

The maps isn't correct is my best answer/guess. The F.E. nerds I follow all say the F.E. map used is not completely correct. Unfortunately, governments have the monopolies on map making.

As far as "midnight sun" in Antarctica, it isn't. They have not shown a true 24 hour time lapse. Dig around, you will find it.

[Neuro]

Apologies, I did start a reply to your earlier comment and deleted it and went to bed, well had another drink and the went to bed.

The maps isn't correct is my best answer/guess. The F.E. nerds I follow all say the F.E. map used is not completely correct. Unfortunately, governments have the monopolies on map making.

As far as "midnight sun" in Antarctica, it isn't. They have not shown a true 24 hour time lapse. Dig around, you will find it.

You should at the most have about 2 hours of sunlight even at its midsummer in December, in Antarctica. Do you believe that to be correct?

The flat earth model seems only to work on the Northern “hemisphere”. I was in Australia in January-February 1992 I recall about 15 hour long daylights then, no matter how you re-arrange your flat earth maps it seems like an impossibility. However if you have a globe earth with a tilt it would make perfect sense. In fact it is perfectly explained in the globe earth model...

Or are you stating that Australia and South America are actually situated much farther north than they are? All geographers since 1500’s have been intentionally lying for the globe earth conspiracy?

[StreetsOfGold]

Water is kept close to level with earth due to gravity

Ah yes the "magical" ingredient gravity.
When you cannot explain the question you bring in "gravity"
The sorcerers hand has been waved and you blinked as taught to you in the mandatory 18 yr prison system to brainwash you!!

You watched too many of the satanic disney movies growing up

[Neuro]

Ah yes the "magical" ingredient gravity.
When you cannot explain the question you bring in "gravity"
The sorcerers hand has been waved and you blinked as taught to you in the mandatory 18 yr prison system to brainwash you!!

You watched too many of the satanic disney movies growing up

Yeah probably! I don’t remember any of them mentioning gravity though. Neither in the Czechoslovak animated doll movies the socialists in Sweden thought was more appropriate for the children to watch.

I actually agree with you that Disney is satanic, especially the last 25 years, but that is way beyond my childhood. They only showed Disney movies on Christmas Eve in Sweden when I was a kid. It was snowwhite from 1939. Lady and the Tramp. Robin Hood and Peter Pan (he may have been a tad satanic, as he was antigravity). And Donald Ducks photographic expedition. And then you had Pluto and the squirels.

Look you may think gods physical laws are satanic, but really that only makes you anti-god. Try to think sometimes with the brain god gave you for that purpose!

[Dogman]

You should at the most have about 2 hours of sunlight even at its midsummer in December, in Antarctica. Do you believe that to be correct?

The flat earth model seems only to work on the Northern “hemisphere”. I was in Australia in January-February 1992 I recall about 15 hour long daylights then, no matter how you re-arrange your flat earth maps it seems like an impossibility. However if you have a globe earth with a tilt it would make perfect sense. In fact it is perfectly explained in the globe earth model...

Or are you stating that Australia and South America are actually situated much farther north than they are? All geographers since 1500’s have been intentionally lying for the globe earth conspiracy? Humm, north summer = south winter. 24 daylight north pole, = dark on the south pole hours wizes. The equator is the dividing line.. north winter, south summer , all the way to north or south poles.

Krap long lived thread ! Hoot

Carry on boys. entertaining

[Bigjon]

Ah yes the "magical" ingredient gravity.
When you cannot explain the question you bring in "gravity"
The sorcerers hand has been waved and you blinked as taught to you in the mandatory 18 yr prison system to brainwash you!!

You watched too many of the satanic disney movies growing up

Even in flat land there is gravity. you are not floating up in the air on your flat land.

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKF7D7XsyTA&amp;feature=youtu.be


Explain this Mamboni


:) you too Neuro

[StreetsOfGold]

Even in flat land there is gravity. you are not floating up in the air on your flat land.

Gravity is a fraud, there is DENSITY, this is why a smoker can blow out smoke and "gravity" does NOT pull it down like it supposedly does with trillions of gallon of "bentable (haha) water"

I can, with little effort jump up and LEAVE the ground, so much for the mystical and "magical" effect of this so called "gravity"

[StreetsOfGold]

Explain this Mamboni


Is this video supposed to be a joke??
it shows nothing and proves nothing!

A video of a ship which shows that distance of the the object on water which is ALWAYS FLAT is just going OUT OF PERSPECTIVE, not going over some fantastical "curve of the earth"

Time stamp 24:19



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2fsZC7jvq0&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=24m19s

[Bigjon]

Gravity is a fraud, there is DENSITY, this is why a smoker can blow out smoke and "gravity" does NOT pull it down like it supposedly does with trillions of gallon of "bentable (haha) water"

I can, with little effort jump up and LEAVE the ground, so much for the mystical and "magical" effect of this so called "gravity"

Well you don't stay up when you leave the ground, your density makes you return. Density a new name for gravity, LOL.

[Jewboo]

I can, with little effort jump up and LEAVE the ground, so much for the mystical and "magical" effect of this so called "gravity".



Ha Ha. This made me laugh out loud along with Bigjon.

:D:D

[midnight rambler]

Actually, the flat earth jumps up to catch your ass.

[Bigjon]

My personal view of gravity is that there is an aetheric wind that blows inward to all material objects in the universe. This wind passes right through us on it's way to the center of the earth and exerts a slight drag on our physical atoms which keeps us pinned against the surface of the earth.

Just how this wind blows from every direction is another guess. And that is there is another dimension that we cannot visualize from our 3 dimension world, although we can imagine it, and that aether comes from that higher dimension.



http://etheric.com/grusenick-experiment-proves-existence-ether/


The fact that Grusenick had found a fringe shift when rotating his apparatus in the vertical direction implies that an ether wind is present which flows vertically with respect to the Earth’s surface. In fact in a personal communication Grusenick confirmed that the detected ether wind was flowing downward into the Earth, just as subquantum kinetics predicted. Hence light waves from the laser traveling upward, against this ether flow, would move slower than light waves from the laser traveling downward, in the same direction as the flow. This results in a fringe shift of the interference pattern relative to its fringe position when the apparatus is oriented with its beams perpendicular to the ether flow. The prediction that G-ons are consumed more rapidly within material bodies is not an ad hoc assumption but rather arises as a direct consequence of Model G. Hence the finding of Grusenick constitutes a confirmation of the theory adding to the 12 plus other confirmations (http://starburstfound.org/predictions-part-2/) that have been cataloged in the past. Grusenick’s video describing the original version of his experiment is given below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T0d7o8X2-E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T0d7o8X2-E

[PatColo]

I know I posted that Max Igan audio here hundreds of replies back somewhere; but since most prolly didn't listen-- the best line which stuck with me re BE/FE was, paraphrasing,

I don't care if the prison is round, flat, cubical, pyramidal, etc... I only care that it's a prison; and remedying that fact is the only place I'm interested on directing my energy!

[Neuro]

Actually, the flat earth jumps up to catch your ass.

Thats the egocentric view of the universe...

[madfranks]

The earth is flat, but it's carried by elephants standing on the back of a giant cosmic sea turtle floating through space.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jAqhg8w-kWM/T-x5usXyxaI/AAAAAAAABV8/uFKSyV53hMs/s1600/captura_1-717926.jpg

[StreetsOfGold]

Well you don't stay up when you leave the ground, your density makes you return. Density a new name for gravity, LOL.

That's because my body weight is MORE dense than the AIR in which I exist but the point which you and the idiots who thanked you MISSED is that I CAN leave the ground with LITTLE effort which make NO SENSE if GRAVITY is holding me down!
DUH you dumbasss

[StreetsOfGold]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jAqhg8w-kWM/T-x5usXyxaI/AAAAAAAABV8/uFKSyV53hMs/s1600/captura_1-717926.jpg

Posting a picture like this, implying that I think this is how things are in mockery is EXACTLY what a .gov mis-info agent does
Quite revealing indeed!!!!

[Bigjon]

That's because my body weight is MORE dense than the AIR in which I exist but the point which you and the idiots who thanked you MISSED is that I CAN leave the ground with LITTLE effort which make NO SENSE if GRAVITY is holding me down!
DUH you dumbasss

So now we start calling each other bad names.

Yep, that is what kind of a moron you are. Density is mainly between your ears.

The air has weight and density because gravity holds it down, just like it holds you down.

If you want to believe in the flat earth and no gravity... who cares? Not me.

[Neuro]

Posting a picture like this, implying that I think this is how things are in mockery is EXACTLY what a .gov mis-info agent does
Quite revealing indeed!!!!

Actually no one thinks you think this, but you are correct it is in mockery. Your delusions re flat earth deserves it. However don’t worry it’s nothing personal about it.

Madfranks a .gov misinfo agent? LOL ;D ;D ;D

[Neuro]

That's because my body weight is MORE dense than the AIR in which I exist but the point which you and the idiots who thanked you MISSED is that I CAN leave the ground with LITTLE effort which make NO SENSE if GRAVITY is holding me down!
DUH you dumbasss

Gravity pulls you to the center of earth at an acceleration around 9.81m/s2, when you jump you need for a very short time overcome this, and that is completely achievable by your skeletal muscles whom where designed for the purpose of overcoming gravity. Density of objects has no importance whatsoever in zero gravity environments. Like in free fall for instance.

You can try going out on a roof of a very tall building with a heavy iron canon ball in your hands. You drop the canon ball at the same time as you step over the edge of the building, observe that you and it falls at the same rate (if you timed the drop accurately) despite it having a density that is 7-8 times greater than yours. As you hit surface of earth the gravity of the situation will dawn on you. The main difference between you and the canon ball, is that it will leave more of a mark on earth than you did... ;D

[Bigjon]

Actually no one thinks you think this, but you are correct it is in mockery. Your delusions re flat earth deserves it. However don’t worry it’s nothing personal about it.

Madfranks a .gov misinfo agent? LOL ;D ;D ;D

Well, I think streets is more likely the pot calling the kettle black. Nobody can be as stupid as his statements declare him to be.
A misinfo man from the deep state.

[Neuro]

Well, I think streets is more likely the pot calling the kettle black. Nobody can be as stupid as his statements declare him to be.
A misinfo man from the deep state.
True it sounds incredible someone could be THAT STUPID. And he has consistently been an apologist for Jews here and tried to put the blame entirely on jesuits (which is of course an organization that from the beginning has been high jacked by the Jews).

[Jewboo]

http://www.delawareright.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/straightjacket_.jpg

That's because my body weight is MORE dense than the AIR in which I exist but the point which you and the idiots who thanked you MISSED is that I CAN leave the ground with LITTLE effort which make NO SENSE if GRAVITY is holding me down!





:rolleyes:

[Jewboo]

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1535833649388.webm

[Horn]

Courtesy of Bigjon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGWFg7EDnyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGWFg7EDnyY

[Jewboo]

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/42a9617f0fe45d9c177703f24d53aa6696fcef8c3448ef627e 77be275a070400.jpg

[Jewboo]

I've been seeing this stupid Flat Earth conspiracy theory all over the Internet...Thoughts?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnM1pntiBHc

Colin O'Brady (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_lZiytsMw) Becomes First Man To Travel Across Antarctica Unaided And Alone



What say you now Mamboni?

:(??

[StreetsOfGold]

Colin O'Brady (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_lZiytsMw) Becomes First Man To Travel Across Antarctica Unaided And Alone



What say you now Mamboni?

:(??



Don't know what he'll say but it's clearly OBVIOUS that so many people have woken up to NASA's Satanic lies of the spinning ball bullshit and deception they had to go to THIS EXTENT to try and quash the awakening.
At least this is easier to fake than moon and mars landings!

[Bigjon]

Don't know what he'll say but it's clearly OBVIOUS that so many people have woken up to NASA's Satanic lies of the spinning ball bullshit and deception they had to go to THIS EXTENT to try and quash the awakening.
At least this is easier to fake than moon and mars landings!

You really are "THAT" STUPID.

Telescopes existed before there ever was a NASA and ordinary people look through them and discover objects called planets that are spinning balls all through the solar system which has a sun that is also a spinning ball.

[Neuro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnM1pntiBHc

Colin O'Brady (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_lZiytsMw) Becomes First Man To Travel Across Antarctica Unaided And Alone



What say you now Mamboni?

:(??



Mamboni being in his physical prime of his life and with no work that weighs down his spirit, is planning his own expedition to Antarctica to prove that the earth is flat. In accordance to his flat earth model Antarctica should at the most have a couple of hours of sunlight a day even in the most sunny months for Antarctica. December and January.

[Jewboo]

I've been seeing this stupid Flat Earth conspiracy theory all over the Internet and more people seem to be buying into this bullshit...



https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1524896225051.png

[dys]

Hi everyone, dysgenic here, checking in.

Some comments on this conspiracy to follow:

First of all, the journey alone has been worth the time I've spent checking this out. There is something about this conspiracy that really exposes how 'plugged in' or 'unplugged' our minds really are from the matrix. I say this not to point the finger at any position or even any person, it's just an observation about myself. The self examination of my own possible blind spots and faulty logic areas have been very revealing and worthwhile endeavor. And it's a work in progress.

First, some healthy skepticism:

For me the cannon ball experiment is not compelling. If I were driving in a bus, for example, and I threw a ball up into the air while the vehicle was moving, it would likely come down straight into my hand. BUT if we tore the roof off the bus and conducted the same experiment, it could get a little interesting. However, too dicy and opaque to prove anything for my tastes.

Experiments that involve seeing things that theoretically should not be seen: the problem that I see here is that in a heliocentric Earth, in any given 200 mile stretch the earth may be level or close to it. At least as far as I can tell the heliocentric model doesn't depend on a perfectly spherical Earth. However, I will say that the more of these things we can find, the more it becomes difficult to dismiss the evidence. How many do we need to prove it? Honestly I have no idea.

For Christians of the forum- most Christians believers in flat Earth rely upon a strict position of 'literal bible translation'. For myself, I'm not willing to go that far. Jesus often spoke in parables, even to his own followers ("...beware, the leaven of the Pharisees...- Matthew 16:6). However, we also know that Prophecy is often fulfilled specifically and literally. Net net, imo the literal vs. figurative question specific to flat Earth requires discernment.

Next, a question:

It has been argued that the speed of sound should be different when sound is traveling West to East vs. East to West. Sounds reasonable to me, but I have about 1/1000th of the knowledge of science that some of you guys have. Do the properties of sound mean that sound travels independently to environment? This seems like a a stretch to me, but I'll defer to those that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to science (not me).

From the eyebrow raising to the compelling:

Check out operation fishbowl.
Check out the Shackleford expedition.
Some of the helium balloon footage is compelling.
Spinning ball earth doesn't pass the smell test to me.
As has been posted on this thread, the numbers associated with ball Earth point to the enemy of our souls.
That photo that the news station claimed was a mirage was compelling when you consider it with the rest of the vantage point evidence.
If taken literally, the Bible proves it for me. Big if, though.
We've got a mountain of evidence to prove that NASA is lying about just about everything. Why believe anything that they say?

Conclusion:

As a former poker player, this strikes me as a particularly big hand. And we all know that poker is a game of incomplete information. Heliocentric shoved their entire stack in, and I call.
If I had to guess for my life, I'd guess flat earth.

[woodman]

Hi everyone, dysgenic here, checking in.

Some comments on this conspiracy to follow:

First of all, the journey alone has been worth the time I've spent checking this out. There is something about this conspiracy that really exposes how 'plugged in' or 'unplugged' our minds really are from the matrix. I say this not to point the finger at any position or even any person, it's just an observation about myself. The self examination of my own possible blind spots and faulty logic areas have been very revealing and worthwhile endeavor. And it's a work in progress.

First, some healthy skepticism:

For me the cannon ball experiment is not compelling. If I were driving in a bus, for example, and I threw a ball up into the air while the vehicle was moving, it would likely come down straight into my hand. BUT if we tore the roof off the bus and conducted the same experiment, it could get a little interesting. However, too dicy and opaque to prove anything for my tastes.

Experiments that involve seeing things that theoretically should not be seen: the problem that I see here is that in a heliocentric Earth, in any given 200 mile stretch the earth may be level or close to it. At least as far as I can tell the heliocentric model doesn't depend on a perfectly spherical Earth. However, I will say that the more of these things we can find, the more it becomes difficult to dismiss the evidence. How many do we need to prove it? Honestly I have no idea.

For Christians of the forum- most Christians believers in flat Earth rely upon a strict position of 'literal bible translation'. For myself, I'm not willing to go that far. Jesus often spoke in parables, even to his own followers ("...beware, the leaven of the Pharisees...- Matthew 16:6). However, we also know that Prophecy is often fulfilled specifically and literally. Net net, imo the literal vs. figurative question specific to flat Earth requires discernment.

Next, a question:

It has been argued that the speed of sound should be different when sound is traveling West to East vs. East to West. Sounds reasonable to me, but I have about 1/1000th of the knowledge of science that some of you guys have. Do the properties of sound mean that sound travels independently to environment? This seems like a a stretch to me, but I'll defer to those that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to science (not me).

From the eyebrow raising to the compelling:

Check out operation fishbowl.
Check out the Shackleford expedition.
Some of the helium balloon footage is compelling.
Spinning ball earth doesn't pass the smell test to me.
As has been posted on this thread, the numbers associated with ball Earth point to the enemy of our souls.
That photo that the news station claimed was a mirage was compelling when you consider it with the rest of the vantage point evidence.
If taken literally, the Bible proves it for me. Big if, though.
We've got a mountain of evidence to prove that NASA is lying about just about everything. Why believe anything that they say?

Conclusion:

As a former poker player, this strikes me as a particularly big hand. And we all know that poker is a game of incomplete information. Heliocentric shoved their entire stack in, and I call.
If I had to guess for my life, I'd guess flat earth.


Well Howdy Dys. Long time brother. Good to hear from you. I have not personally put a lot of thought into the flat earth thing. Balls make a lot of sense to me. Gravity makes a lot of sense. Flat Earth not so much. You really think all those ancient explorers were wrong in circumnavigating the globe?

[KenJackson]

... most Christians believers in flat Earth rely upon a ...

Huh? Wait. What? Do you think any Christian believes in a flat earth for real?

What are you smoking/drinking/selling?

[Bigjon]

Huh? Wait. What? Do you think any Christian believes in a flat earth for real?

What are you smoking/drinking/selling?

The bible is the whole truth, because god wrote it. And if god says so it is so.

Say the men who believe.

[KenJackson]

So you're saying the Bible says the earth is flat? Do know where? Which book and verse?

You have to be careful what you hear people say about the Bible. There's an awful lot of both ignorance and hate against it.

[Bigjon]

So you're saying the Bible says the earth is flat? Do know where? Which book and verse?

You have to be careful what you hear people say about the Bible. There's an awful lot of both ignorance and hate against it.

I believe knowing is more important than believing.

Can't you see the big tongue in my cheek?

[KenJackson]

Can't you see the big tongue in my cheek?

Sorry. Tongue-in-cheek and sarcasm don't convey well in text.

And sadly, I've encountered people that apparently really believe that the Bible says that.

[dys]

I will get back to you guys by this weekend, thank you for the replies.

[osoab]

Welcome to the dark side dys. It's good to see you around. Hope all is going well for you.

[ziero0]

If I had to guess for my life, I'd guess flat earth.

The Earth was flat until the Persians introduced the concept of 'zero', a symbol that has been introduced to encompass the concept of nothing. By this act all of western society crumbled and is the basis for all present military actions in the middle east.

If you have a zero in the denominator you end up with what is called a pole. The function explodes to infinity. So without a zero symbol or concept there was also no concept of infinity. Prior to the invention of zero the earth could be considered flat. The introduction of zero caused the flat plane to wrap around and become spherical.

In the s-plane (imaginary vertical axis, real horizontal axis) events on the unit circle are stable. They stay there forever. Events closer to the origin will decay to that origin over time in an exponential fashion. Events outside the unit circle will propagate to infinity ... again ... exponentially. Analyzing systems using these concepts was not possible until zero is available as a symbol. A spherical analogy to the unit circle follows logically.

Using a system of Arabic numbers doesn't make you Arabic. Using zero doesn't make you Persian. Using both might just make you confused.

Using gold and silver to form contracts leads to a flat earth. Using fiat money leads to a spherical earth. You get to decide which system works for you.

[StreetsOfGold]

So you're saying the Bible says the earth is flat? Do know where? Which book and verse?

Here's a few which clearly state the earth is NOT a "spinning ball"

1) The phrase UNDER THE SUN appears 27 times in the book of Ecclesiastes
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
If the earth is UNDER the Sun it's NOT 93,000,000 miles AWAY from the earth with the earth spinning around it. NO WAY!!

2) Deuteronomy 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

the earth has ENDS, Balls (spinning) do NOT have ENDS!!


3) Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
the earth has a FACE, Balls do not have a FACE!!!

4) The earth is NOT moving (spinning) or shuffling through some star wars "universe" (ala hellywood/NASA fakery) it is sitting STILL

Zechariah 1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

5) heaven is ABOVE the earth, thus you have a clear description that heaven is ABOVE and earth is BENEATH, not a spinning ball hurling through "space"

Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

[dys]

I don't have the time to do this right now, but the most convincing arguments for me are Scriptures related to the immovability for the Earth.
1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."

[Neuro]

I don't have the time to do this right now, but the most convincing arguments for me are Scriptures related to the immovability for the Earth.
1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."

That is more geocentrism than flatearthism, which got Galileo in trouble with the church 500 years ago, when he had the misfortune of studying the universe through a telescope...

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnM1pntiBHc

Colin O'Brady (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_lZiytsMw) Becomes First Man To Travel Across Antarctica Unaided And Alone



What say you now Mamboni?

:(??




Southern Sky (https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1554945501736.webm)

[Jewboo]

Massive Flat-Earth web page (https://goyimgazette.com/the-big-issue/) that Amanda linked to in another thread.

:o

[Bigjon]

Massive Flat-Earth web page (https://goyimgazette.com/the-big-issue/) that Amanda linked to in another thread.

:o

Your previous video of the stars orbiting a southern circular point falsify's this one.

Gravitation causes a lensing effect, so when you look to the horizon you can see farther than the radius should allow.

[Jewboo]

Your previous video of the stars orbiting a southern circular point falsify's this one.

Gravitation causes a lensing effect, so when you look to the horizon you can see farther than the radius should allow.

It does. This guy says that southern circular point is the same North Star on a flat Earth.

[Bigjon]

It does. This guy says that southern circular point is the same North Star on a flat Earth.

How does he account for the stars rotating in the opposite direction?

Which they do.

[Jewboo]

How does he account for the stars rotating in the opposite direction? Which they do.



https://emmottontechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/amazed.jpg

Wow. If they are rotating in the opposite direction you just PROVED logically that our Earth is a globe. Bravo.

[Bigjon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&amp;v=aYPJ3gGQhPU

Start at the 3 minute mark.

In the north the stars rotate counterclockwise and in the south they rotate clockwise around a central point.

From this link on this thread: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?83953-Flat-Earthers-Won-t-Go-Away&p=889349&viewfull=1#post889349

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&amp;v=aYPJ3gGQhPU


Start at the 3 minute mark.

In the north the stars rotate counterclockwise and in the south they rotate clockwise around a central point.

From this link on this thread: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?83953-Flat-Earthers-Won-t-Go-Away&p=889349&viewfull=1#post889349



https://www.trophiesplusmedals.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/award-ceremony-ideas.jpg

Bigjon PROVES Earth is not flat..................now owns this thread.




https://media.giphy.com/media/jShr8wkP38XTO/giphy.gif













:D Mamboni?

[woodman]

How does he account for the stars rotating in the opposite direction?

Which they do.

I don't know if this has been discussed yet:

Another logical refutation of the flat earth theory is the coriolis effect;
https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/hurricanes-spin-different-directions-northern-southern-hemispheres-coriolis-effect.html

It is interesting that because the circumference of the earth is smaller toward the polar regions, this means the speed of rotation is markedly different from pole to equator.

I have read that water tends to swirl clockwise south of the equator and counter clockwise north of the equator. I did visit Peru last year but I was too busy to check out the toilets behavior.

[monty]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet:



I have read that water tends to swirl clockwise south of the equator and counter clockwise north of the equator. I did visit Peru last year but I was too busy to check out the toilets behavior.

I have read the same thing.

When I was in Chile a few years ago I saw that the constellations were a mirror image and the stars appeared to rotate the opposite direction than they do in the northern hemisphere.

I also forgot to check on the anti rotation of water going down the drain.

[Bigjon]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet:

Another logical refutation of the flat earth theory is the coriolis effect;
https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/hurricanes-spin-different-directions-northern-southern-hemispheres-coriolis-effect.html

It is interesting that because the circumference of the earth is smaller toward the polar regions, this means the speed of rotation is markedly different from pole to equator.

I have read that water tends to swirl clockwise south of the equator and counter clockwise north of the equator. I did visit Peru last year but I was too busy to check out the toilets behavior.


We know it rotates, because we observe it by looking at the planetary objects.

BUT does it rotate, if you ignore the external (has nothing/little to do with the earth) objects.

Does a car driving down your street make your chair spin?

When you confine your observation point to it alone, the earth is not moving.

[dys]

More thoughts, opinions, and observations. If I'm rehashing, please forgive and humor me.

First, a thought experiment:
As the crow flies, it is supposedly approximately 1k miles as the crow flies from my house in the Northeast to Disney World in Florida. If you conceptualize the whole world, and the supposed circumference of the world, this appears to be ridiculous to me. How could such a (relatively) short trip, not even close to half way across the country, be 1/25 of the circumference of the whole world?

Food for thought:
The illuminati card game had a flat Earth card. Hmmmm.

Observation re- high weather hot air balloons vids:
I've seen youtube videos that clearly demonstrate a curved Earth, and I've seen videos that clearly demonstrate a flat Earth.
Conclusion- someone is lying.

Gyroscopes:
My understanding is that the regular Gyroscopes indicate flat Earth, yet the laser Gyroscopes indicate curved Earth.
Again- someone is lying.

Moon:
Apparently the face of the moon is a constant to anyone on the Earth. It does not change. Can anyone confirm? Has this been discussed? Seem to indicate flat Earth.

Stars rotating different directions in different hemispheres:
Would seem to me to indicate a curved Earth. Can anyone give me a flat Earth argument for this phenomenon? Youtube links would be appreciated.

Bible:

"The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit."
Ecclesiastes 1:6

It could be argued that this indicates round Earth. Especially the word circuit. Is there a flat Earth argument that explains this?

"Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon; and Moon, in the Valley Aijalon." So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day."
Joshua 10:12-13

Seems to indicate flat Earth. Or seems to at minimum be a very strong proof for geocentric model of Sun revolving around Earth. Is there a Christian argument for ball Earth that explains this scripture? Anyone here read the book of Jasher? Opening up a can of worms here, but what about those that claim that book of Enoch, Jasher, and others should be Biblical cannon? At minimum it seems that the Bible quoted it so it would seem to be worth reading from my perspective.

[Neuro]

More thoughts, opinions, and observations. If I'm rehashing, please forgive and humor me.

First, a thought experiment:
As the crow flies, it is supposedly approximately 1k miles as the crow flies from my house in the Northeast to Disney World in Florida. If you conceptualize the whole world, and the supposed circumference of the world, this appears to be ridiculous to me. How could such a (relatively) short trip, not even close to half way across the country, be 1/25 of the circumference of the whole world?

Food for thought:
The illuminati card game had a flat Earth card. Hmmmm.
Seems like they are playing that card right now... No one in their right mind would have even entertained such a patently insane and unscientific idea 5 years ago, and all of a sudden you have a whole bunch of attractive internet influencers, who may have otherwise valid observations re conspiracies being conducted against us, starting discussion groups and spreading their falsehoods on social media platforms.

Utterly absurd!

Of course as people increasingly live their lives away from the physical reality that is our world, in an increasingly abstract cyber reality, where your opinions become more important, than what is real and true, in a sort of make believe egocentric universe, where opinions outside your comfort zone is quickly being blocked, and turned non-existent. I guess in this framework it becomes easier to reject whatever is more difficult to quantify directly, and accept how things appears from your own subjective vantage point...

https://pics.me.me/proof-thata-basketball-is-flat-l-used-the-zetetic-method-34347385.png

[midnight rambler]

Though the truth may vary
This ship will carry our bodies safe to shore


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghb6eDopW8I

[Bigjon]

https://www.eutelsat.com/en/satellites.html

https://www.eutelsat.com/en/satellites/eutelsat-13-east.html (https://www.eutelsat.com/en/satellites/eutelsat-13-east.html)

https://www.eutelsat.com/en/investors/etl-share-price.html
Buy some flat earth.

https://satbeams.com/website/links

Hey they're faking it. yea flat earth, you have to believe, because if you look ... the thought is too terrible to imagine. Falling off the edge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw7XeEMH86g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw7XeEMH86g

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57DPnH06V0

HEY MAMBONI: What's this look like in 2160p Ultra High Definition ?

:D

[Neuro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57DPnH06V0

HEY MAMBONI: What's this look like in 2160p Ultra High Definition ?

:D



Odd how it looks like the sky is circling around an axis, must be some advanced fakery. ;)

[osoab]

Odd how it looks like the sky is circling around an axis, must be some advanced fakery. ;)

Flat Earthers know the stars, planets, Moon, and Sun revolve around the vertical North. :D

[Neuro]

Flat Earthers know the stars, planets, Moon, and Sun revolve around the vertical North. :D

Yah, so it is odd that the axis could be seen straight up the sky in Antarctica, winter, right? One would think that the sun would be seen during the 24 hour cycle if you can see where the axis of rotation is located. Further it would also be odd to have 24 hour daylight/sun in the summer on Antarctica? On those solar flat earth graphic models it would appear having more than 3-4 hours of sun/day in Antarctica during the height of “Southern Hemisphere” summer would be an impossibility.

I guess these anomalies is further proof the earth is flat...

[Jewboo]

Odd how it looks like the sky is circling around an axis, must be some advanced fakery. ;)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLjVJ6O4NNI

Watch this at the 1:05 minute mark.

:)

[Shami-Amourae]

Real Life graphics still aren't as good as Skyrim graphics, just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK4JSwhdcdE

[Jewboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYPtEGrJLwI

Starting around the 13:00 minute mark Owen talks about Flat Earth with proofs for over an hour. Worth watching...

:)

[mamboni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYPtEGrJLwI

Starting around the 13:00 minute mark Owen talks about Flat Earth with proofs for over an hour. Worth watching...

:)

Truth is chased from many villages.

Indeed!

I congratulate Mr. Benjamin on his awakening to the truth of our reality.🤓

[woodman]

I watched the video and I will take their word for the line-of-sight laser evidence, etc. I allow my mind to be open on the subject because I have had delusions and lies drop away with the light of truth. ...But.... There are many reasons I cannot go with the flat earth. Just for one, how is it that we can fly aircraft and ships around the globe from east to west and west to east? This is proof of a global earth I would think. As far as the arguement that travel does not cross Antarctica, I don't know but perhaps it is not a very safe transect and would be a really rare route being that most departures and destinations are no where near the south pole. Do aircraft transect the north pole routinely?

Wouldn't it be quite obvious to ship captains and companies moving between Australia, South America, South Africa, etc. that they are traveling tremendous distances between destinations, which would be the case if Antarctica circled the earth. I don't think something of this magnitude would pass the smell test for a myriad of reasons. I could go on but maybe you folks who believe in flat earth could answer these questions.

[mamboni]

I watched the video and I will take their word for the line-of-sight laser evidence, etc. I allow my mind to be open on the subject because I have had delusions and lies drop away with the light of truth. ...But.... There are many reasons I cannot go with the flat earth. Just for one, how is it that we can fly aircraft and ships around the globe from east to west and west to east? This is proof of a global earth I would think. As far as the arguement that travel does not cross Antarctica, I don't know but perhaps it is not a very safe transect and would be a really rare route being that most departures and destinations are no where near the south pole. Do aircraft transect the north pole routinely?

Wouldn't it be quite obvious to ship captains and companies moving between Australia, South America, South Africa, etc. that they are traveling tremendous distances between destinations, which would be the case if Antarctica circled the earth. I don't think something of this magnitude would pass the smell test for a myriad of reasons. I could go on but maybe you folks who believe in flat earth could answer these questions.First, travel from east to west and visa versa is a semicircular path, whether on a globe or a circular plane (i.e. see United Nations map/logo). Simplest example is travel along the equator from east to west. On a flat earth the path subtends a portion of the circle whose center is at the north pole.

Ship captains who have attempted to circumnavigate the Antarctica coast line documented that the voyage logged in excess of 70,000 miles and required years. Also, there are numerous instances of ships falling out of their reckoning when traversing the southern hemisphere particularly as they travel further south.

There are hundreds of proofs of the flat earth based on empirical measurements and observations. There are no proofs of a globe earth based on primary measurements or observations (i.e. the blue marble globe earth is a man made construct, not a primary datum).

The result of the Michelson-Morley experiment has two possible solutions. One solution was the simple and obvious one, that the earth does not move. This solution was discarded out of hand by scientists because of it's obvious implications. The other solution was offered by Einstein in the form of the Special Relativity, a brilliant construct of pure metaphysics having no connection to the real world. Tesla pointed this out at the time.

On a side note, do you recall the astronaut who almost drowned while performing a space walk? How exactly does a space suit fill with water whilst floating in a vaccuum? The answer is this: there are no space walking astronauts. These so-called space walks are performed underwater in a large pool containing a model of the space station. Just examine the strange lighting with the blunted contrasts typical of underwater videography. Also, many Youtube videos have documented errant bubbles in the purported vacuum of space. If NASA is faking these space walks one must ponder what else NASA is faking and why?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMj7P8SB_g0

[woodman]

Quote from Mamboni:

"Ship captains who have attempted to circumnavigate the Antarctica coast line documented that the voyage logged in excess of 70,000 miles and required years. Also, there are numerous instances of ships falling out of their reckoning when traversing the southern hemisphere particularly as they travel further south."

I cannot merely take your word for the ships logging in excess of 70,000 miles. To my mind, it would become obvious to any seagoers that something was wrong with their maps when they attempted to travel from Australia to South America or South Africa. The distances would be staggering. What about the Peri Reisse map which clearly shows the coastline of Antarctica? It does not indicate a flat earth and it was made long before any attempt at fooling the citizens of earth could possibly have been mounted due to technological restraints. Also, it was purportedly a copy made from a far older map. It had to have been extremely ancient because the only way it could have shown the coastline would be if that coastline had been clear of glaciation at the time of mapping. Antarctica is definitely ancient and it is most certainly hiding secrets 'they' don't want us to know.

As far as the astronauts, I believe nothing. NASA is a fraud. Did we go to the moon? I doubt men walked there.

As far as Benjamin Owen, his main thesis is that "Because his dad is gay, the world is flat." That dude is full of himself and although I watched his presentation, I thought him to be an arrogant ass, bloviating past the point of all decency.

No, something of the magnitude of a flat earth would become obvious to mankind as we used our technology to conduct trade across the oceans. We rely on maps to travel and make money. It's all about the money. It is always all about the money. If the earth was flat and Antarctica circled it, we could not reconcile the facts with the lie as we tried to make money by moving men and machines and goods through the water.

No disrespect, but I simply don't believe your position. I would love to discuss it more because I am amazed that you have come to the conclusion you have. My mind is open and I am willing to admit error if it exists.

[Jewboo]

...I allow my mind to be open on the subject because I have had delusions and lies drop away with the light of truth. ...But....There are many reasons I cannot go with the flat earth...





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZORin57WyM



Same here Woodman.




As far as Benjamin Owen, his main thesis is that "Because his dad is gay, the world is flat." That dude is full of himself and although I watched his presentation, I thought him to be an arrogant ass, bloviating past the point of all decency.



Amusing how Owen kept a straight face insisting as fact that "obviously God created our flat Earth".................................................b ecause his (((bible))) says so (https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2015/07/proof-that-god-spiderman-exist.jpg).

:)

[osoab]

AJ is getting in on the action now.

The fat man might just show up at the FE Conference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W01JgbG99B0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W01JgbG99B0

[midnight rambler]

Well then it's official - with AJ onboard it's for the lunatics.

[woodman]

You know, the thing with this Flat Earth is that to my mind it would be patently obvious. Either the world is a globe or it is not. If it is not a globe, then the shipping lanes and rates would be so far skewed between the northern hemisphere and the southern as to make it immediately apparent. Times between destinations in the southern hemishphere would be so greater in magnitude for the same 'supposed' distance, that it would be an obvious tell-tale sign. I am amazed that this thing has gained any following at all. Has the flouride and mercury and public education taken us so far backward down the trail of enlightenment that we can no longer make logical reckonings?

[Jewboo]

You know, the thing with this Flat Earth is that to my mind it would be patently obvious...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYZsJYZVt5g

This 2005 movie clip made me realize that we can no longer trust our own eyes anymore.

This thread will never conclude with incontrovertible (https://thesaurus.plus/img/antonyms/919/incontrovertible.png) "proof".

:)

[Horn]

Its a "deepstate" counter to intelligence programming.

When the Earth is flat its easier to hate your neighbor, cause the human brain then perceives them as more easily threatening you.

You're All just threads in The Loom of Fate...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRAGv61QkHc

[BrewTech]

If the earth was flat, cats would simply push everything off it.

[mamboni]

Real world observations - well worth your time and attention:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqb9Qykq3k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyCEGirxYag


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRshjR04WY&amp;list=PLft4WW4afvizv2Ibcd44WJy2 3blGAjlj-&amp;index=2

[Bigjon]

If the world were flat I could see all the way to the edge, but it is a ball and I can only see as far as the tangent plain plus the curve caused by gravitational lensing, which moves away as I gain altitude. Watching the distant moon 250, 000 miles away, the whole while.

That is the real world.

[madfranks]

Real world observations - well worth your time and attention:

I respect your opinion, so I'll check these out.

[Jewboo]

As one whose first guess is that the Apollo moon landings were faked, and considering how for decades "flat-earthers" has been a systematically engineered meme to ridicule & dismiss those presenting alternative views, similar to the "conspiracy theorists" meme; lets just say I "allow for the possibility" that the flat earth speculation may be... ??? My first impression upon seeing that there's a "flat earther" trend being posted at otherwise truthy internet watering holes, was "uh oh, sunstein cognitive infiltration meant to discredit everyone of our mindset/message!" and that remains my first guess.



https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1573466587419.jpg

You don't believe your own eyes PatColo ?

:)

[StreetsOfGold]

when the earth is flat its easier to hate your neighbor

lol

[StreetsOfGold]

If the world were flat I could see all the way to the edge

No, your EYES have LIMITED seeing distance!!!
That's why men have witty inventions, like Binoculars and Telescopes.

BASIC common sense. Lose yours?

[Bigjon]

No, your EYES have LIMITED seeing distance!!!
That's why men have witty inventions, like Binoculars and Telescopes.

BASIC common sense. Lose yours?

Is the moon closer than the edge? I can see it pretty clearly and it's a multiple of earth distances away.

Common sense.

You lost it a long time ago.