Which "crimes" are those, Neuro?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
Printable View
Which "crimes" are those, Neuro?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
If Earth's position and nature are "special" and "unique," then Intelligent Design becomes self-evident. And if Intelligent Design is "proven," the fundamental foundations of the entire world system are called into question. A reversal of the "God is Dead" movement over the last century-plus would profoundly alter our world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
Non-sequitur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
God allowed us to choose, and we chose wrong. And keep choosing wrong, over, and over, and over, ad infinitum.
Since man chose wrong, yes, this is true. The Bible acknowledges this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
"Evil" is not a thing. Evil is the absence of Good. And where God is not welcome, Good is much less likely to exist. Think of Evil as Darkness...it's been equated for very good reason for millennia. It is the absence of Light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
When humans reject God, Goodness diminishes where He is dismissed and denounced.
This is absolutely correct. Jesus Christ was murdered because of and by religion. "My burden is light..." He didn't give us another religion; He gave us relief from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Or you're the visionary and idealist who can see that there is something much, much more beyond this material world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
People who choose to reject God are given their desire in the next life. "Hell" is separation from God, forever. God does not "send" anyone anywhere. He permits them their choice, just as Adam & Eve were given the choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
I don't know I didn't make that shit up!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnQPublic
You don't think earth revolves around the sun?Quote:
Originally Posted by crimethink
None of the stuff you said makes sense. Again, I don't believe in a god. Your statements are based around the belief in the Christian religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by crimethink
Can it be proven?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
It is "probably true."
Didn't make any sense to me at one time in my life, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
I don't believe in it because it's Christian. I'm a Christian because it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
I can only explain what I know.
The other option is that sun revolves around earth and all the other planets revolves around the sun. But Martians or Titans or Plutonians could likewise argue the exact same thing for their planets in relation with the sun and the other planets. Everyone could be in a special and unique place of the Universe... ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by crimethink
shami when you go outside look around can you make the things you see
But no one else has the CMB (and other phenomenon) aligned specifically to them. Our ecliptic and equinoxes (and potentially equator) seem to be partitioning the cosmos at its largest scales. Not Pluto's, not Mars', not the sun's, not even our galaxy's, only earth. Keep an open mind until you get a chance to see the movie. Read this for now if you want: https://medium.com/we-are-in-a-speci...n-26f88f17a732Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
john the earth has to be a special place they have not show us one other place were life can are be seen alive are I would say they have the tools by now to look far out
The Principle: Rise of The Dark Ages...Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnQPublic
do you have like 51% ownership in this movie or something? :cool:
I wish! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
http://nycmovieguru.com/oct24th14.html
The Earth revolves around the sun, right? At least according to 16th Century cosmologist Nicolaus Copernicus, we live in a heliocentric universe. 20th Century cosmologist even went to the extent of saying that Earth is insignificant in a galaxy that's among many other galaxies. Along comes the groundbreaking documentary The Principle, directed by Katheryne Thomas, which presents very compelling evidence that disproves the Copernican Principle and to, ultimately, make you feel happier to be living because Earth is significant. Director Katheryne Thomas initially provides you with a wide range of perspectives from various scientist such as Michio Kaku, Max Tegmark and George Ellis, among others. Each of them is interviewed separately, but the things they say are sometimes at odds with one another which highlights how complex the issue of heliocentricity vs geocentricity. By including those different opinions, Thomas acheives something that too few documentaries acheive: fairness, balance and critical thinking without resorting to ad hominum against naysayers. The arguments for geocentricity are quite persuasive, and easy-to-follow with graphics and narration used in a lively way that makes it accessible to the laymen without being exhausting or too dry. The Principle ultimately finds just the right balance between entertaining the audience and proking them emotionally and intellectually no matter what they believe in before sitting down to watch it. By the time it's over, you'll never look at the Copernican Principle the same way again. This is the kind of doc that you'll be talking about for weeks. Rocky Mountain Pictures opens The Principle at Addison Cinema in Chicago.
One review.
Protecting Faith from Pseudoscience: A Review of The Principle
by Guest Contributor | Oct 21, 2014 | The Faith | 13 comments
Protecting Faith from Pseudoscience: A Review of The Principle
Camille M. Carlisle is the science editor at Sky & Telescope magazine.
I was recently asked to review a new movie called The Principle, being released this month. The film, produced by Catholic theologian Robert Sungenis, uses science to raise the specter of geocentrism — the theory that Earth is at the physical center of the universe. With breathtaking cinematography and intellectual one-two punches, it paints a compelling argument that geocentrism might be right and the world’s scientists are willfully blind to the evidence.
Compelling, that is, if you know nothing about astrophysics.
If you do, you’ll soon see that the movie is a combination of science, bogus science, and conspiracy theory, tied up in a Gordian knot that would take much more than a blog to fully unravel.
The reason I’m writing about it in a Catholic blog is this: the movie has the potential to erode the scientific literacy of believers and convince nonbelievers that science and Christianity don’t mix. No doubt the movie’s creators are well intentioned. But good intentions make hell-bound paving stones. This isn’t me, a science journalist, merely ranting about the movie’s deplorable lack of fact-checking. This is me, a Catholic, worried about the error it will seed in the minds of God’s little ones.
Because in watching the movie and having a dozen pages of e-mail back-and-forth with the producer and publicist, one thing became clear: the movie’s creators do not understand physics.
Let’s take their argument about center of mass as an example. The movie correctly says that, according to Newtonian gravity, bodies in the solar system orbit around their common center of mass. What that means is that, technically speaking, Earth and the planets don’t orbit the Sun; rather, the Sun and planets orbit their common center of mass.
But the movie then tries to make the argument that, if Earth sits at the universe’s center of mass, then it wouldn’t move and everything — Sun, stars, our Milky Way galaxy, the cosmic web of galaxies and galaxy clusters we see in the universe — would rotate around that fixed point. In other words, Earth is stationary in a giant, rotating celestial sphere.
However, gravitationally, that just doesn’t work. First of all, the Sun has 99% of the solar system’s mass, and so the center of mass for our planetary system lies inside the Sun. Second, there’s no gravitational reason that Earth would sit still where it is. For example, Earth can’t be as close as it is to the Sun and not feel our star’s gravitational influence. Earth is made of matter: it has mass. It’s also a mere 93 million miles from the Sun — astronomically speaking, right on top of it. And the Sun is roughly 300,000 times more massive than Earth. Therefore, even if Earth were at the universe’s center, our planet would still not evade the Sun’s pull. Why? Because the closer two objects are to each other, the stronger the gravitational pull is. And Earth is just too close to the Sun.
In addition, decades of velocity measurements, radio observations, and many other lines of evidence show that our solar system sits in the outer-ish part of a spiral galaxy that’s rotating around a center that isn’t Earth. Observations also show that our galaxy is in a group of galaxies, and that this Local Group is on the outer edge of a giant supercluster. Geocentrism simply doesn’t match the empirical evidence. Nor is there any coherent theory of gravity that can both explain all our observations and put Earth at the universe’s physical center.
There are many other examples in the movie like this one. One that might catch you off guard is the work by astronomer John Hartnett, whose analysis of cosmic structure seems to reveal concentric spheres centered on us. However, as astronomer Tom Bridgman explains in his several blogs on this subject, this is a flaw in Hartnett’s analysis. (Bridgman’s blogs are quite technical — the man really knows his analytic techniques! — but if you want a hard science analysis I recommend reading his blogs on Hartnett’s work and on The Principle.)
The movie also argues against what it calls “patches,” things such as dark matter and dark energy that, it accuses, astrophysicists invoke to try to “save” their theories. But this is a shortsighted argument: it’s equivalent to saying that, since we don’t know everything about the universe, we don’t know anything. Yet however much distaste you might have for dark energy, something is making the universe’s expansion speed up. “Dark energy” is the filler word for that something, until we figure it out.
The Principle’s creators really seem to have it in for Einstein. This is a common problem for those not trained in modern physics. Many think that Einstein’s theory of gravity (colloquially called general relativity, or just GR) is esoteric nonsense. But if you’ve ever used GPS, you’ve used GR. According to GR, Earth creates a gravitational well in the fabric of spacetime. Because of that, time runs slightly slower on Earth than it does for the GPS satellites in orbit. (The delay is about 38 microseconds per day.) In order to use GPS, we have to account for relativistic effects. A world without GR is a world without Google Maps.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
But my biggest complaint is the movie’s underlying philosophical argument. The movie claims that moving Earth from the physical center of everything implies that “man means nothing,” that if the universe doesn’t revolve around Earth, we aren’t special.
This dichotomy is a materialist lie. As Stephen Barr brilliantly lays out in his book Modern Physics and Ancient Faith, we need to separate scientific results from the philosophy that uses them to make its case.
Too many people buy into the mantra that science disproves faith. Wrong. Materialism uses science to argue that faith isn’t true. We can just as easily do the opposite. (Read Barr’s book for more info.) The movie quotes prominent scientists such as Lawrence Krauss and the deceased Carl Sagan to set up this geocentrism-or-insignificance choice, but both of these men are infamous militant atheists. Of course they’re going to interpret scientific results as proving we aren’t special.
The sad thing is, The Principle buys into this dichotomy, too. The question you should ask yourself is, Why? Why does not being in the middle of everything mean we’re not special? Who said the two have to go together?
In fact, salvation history suggests the opposite is true: God picks the least and the lowly. The Jews were a tiny little people among great peoples: “It was not because you are more numerous than all the peoples that the LORD set his heart on you and chose you; for you are really the smallest of all peoples. It was because the LORD loved you and because of his fidelity to the oath he had sworn to your ancestors” (Dt 7: 7-8). Jesus Himself was from a backwater town in Israel. Heck, He picked fishermen as apostles. And think of the many saints who were not at the center of anything — the children of Fatima come to mind — yet He chose them. So why on Earth should we expect our planet to be the physical center of the cosmos? Is it not more amazing that we aren’t? Doesn’t it speak to God’s providence and love and tenderness, and the fact that He’s God and we aren’t?
Noted cosmologist Max Tegmark raises a useful point in the movie when he says, “We had this arrogance, and we got it knocked out of us. And we realized that we’re not the center of everything” — except we haven’t had it knocked out of us. Because if we had, we wouldn’t sin. Sin is (spiritually) putting ourselves at the center. That the weight of scientific evidence suggests Earth is not at the physical center of the solar system, the galaxy, or the local supercluster of galaxies doesn’t tell us anything theologically — ‘cause hey, it’s only physics, and physics only deals with physical reality, not metaphysics. But it wouldn’t hurt us to meditate on the point for a while.
http://truthandcharity.net/protectin...the-principle/
if true, the few lines here throw me off .... North, South, East and West are determined according to our position with the sun. There is no galactic center, IMHO
Quote:
But my biggest complaint is the movie’s underlying philosophical argument. The movie claims that moving Earth from the physical center of everything implies that “man means nothing,” that if the universe doesn’t revolve around Earth, we aren’t special.
I have difficulties to visualize earth as the center of the galaxy here... does the movie claim that earth is the only planet inhabited in the entire cosmos?
http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net...lh1io1_400.gif
Expecting anything different from her is like expecting the director of a Holocaust™ "museum" to speak well of Leuchter, Cole, or Irving. It just cannot be done. At least not with any hope of keeping one's profession.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
I'd propose, Camille, that you "know" nothing about astrophysics. What you think you "know" is actually belief based on things you can never personally experience, highly-dependent upon opinions and interpretations of what people think they see.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
You are worried that your actual religion, modern so-called "science," is under threat. Your livelihood is based upon your religion, which is not Catholicism. You're afraid that "unapproved" and "unacceptable" ideas are being presented - ideas that will cause some to question the monolithic expectation of faith in your actual religion - modern so-called "science."Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
LOL. Hyperbole much?Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Einstein, the Jewish brand name (and much less so a man), was the product of numerous other scientists' work. His theories remain just that, and much of what is claimed as his was not. He denied many things now accepted as true by even modern so-called "science." 38 microseconds? Is that a lot? (sarcasm). GPS satellites are also 12,600 miles out, taking 0.068 light-seconds for their signals to reach the surface. It is assumed that "Einstein's General Relativity" is the explanation of the perceptual-increase in speed of the GPS satellite clock.
Modern so-called "science" is not a value-less ideology. It is every bit a religion of olden times, only with its followers denying it has fanatic dogma. Whether it's "global warming," evolution, or Sagan's "insignificant" pale, blue dot, the alleged "results" are generated from and through the "philosophy."Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Modern so-called "science" alleges to be based upon the truly value-less scientific method, but in reality, most of what alleges to be "science" is untestable.
"But the movie then tries to make the argument that, if Earth sits at the universe’s center of mass, then it wouldn’t move and everything — Sun, stars, our Milky Way galaxy, the cosmic web of galaxies and galaxy clusters we see in the universe — would rotate around that fixed point. In other words, Earth is stationary in a giant, rotating celestial sphere.
However, gravitationally, that just doesn’t work. First of all, the Sun has 99% of the solar system’s mass, and so the center of mass for our planetary system lies inside the Sun."
Oops. The old switcharoo! and GR can account for this, and this is what all modern cosmology is based on. Anything can be center and the universe will supply the forces to create the needed balance.
This is a poorly thought out and written piece. Really bad.
And finally, "But the movie then tries to make the argument that, if Earth sits at the universe’s center of mass, then it wouldn’t move and everything — Sun, stars, our Milky Way galaxy, the cosmic web of galaxies and galaxy clusters we see in the universe — would rotate around that fixed point"
The movie does not try and make that point! Bad journalism. Sorry, complete fail.
Status Update
By The Principle [Rick DeLano, producer, JQP]
What an amazing first day for "The Principle".
Final numbers won't be available until tomorrow, because it's time for a well deserved dinner and celebration, but suffice it to say, if Saturday and Sunday continue along the same trend, we will have an absolutely stellar opening weekend!
Three shows sold out today, and the fourth was within 4 seats of selling out when I left.
One show was added to the schedule to accommodate the overflow.
People showed up BIG TIME in Chicago for "The Principle" tonight.
And every single one of them knows who has been telling the truth about this film now :-) - Rick DeLano
Robert Sungenis and Rick DeLano opening night in Addison, Illinois (~15 min. from O'Hare). Picture from Facebook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnQPublic
Why did the Jews need to play the anti-Semite card on Bob Sungenis?
He must have feared for his life, having to say "I believe in the Holocaust, I love the Jewish people, I'm not an anti-Semite"
He is basically saying that he does not have to hate someone to be critical of them. The Jewish people are free to convert to Christianity as is anyone else. As to the holocaust, I think he questions aspects of it, but not necessarily that the Nazis ran prison camps and a lot of people perished in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Because it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
Being identified as an "anti-Semite" is far worse than being identified as a child molestor - for your career, for your relationships, sometimes, for your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
glad you guys had a great opening weekend , I guess I will wait till it out on dvd because we no longer go out and watch movies . so has the hate started yet on the movie . be well mick
Science May Never Be the Same After October 24, 2014
Movies
It will likely become one of the most controversial documentaries ever made. I just saw an advanced screening of a documentary that premiers October 24. When I say controversy, I mean the same level of controversy and meaningful impact as when Copernicus made his claims about the nature of the universe or when Einstein dropped the theory of relativity on us. It is causing a crisis in the scientific community -- at least for those who are wholly invested in what 20th century science has embraced as indisputable. This is absolutely jaw-dropping. I look up into the heavens full of stars and everything looks different now -- just knowing what I know now compared to two hours ago. More info to come soon. I just finished it 10 minutes ago, and my mind has been racing just considering all of the implications. More info to come in the next couple days. [written at midnight on Wednesday, October 22]
Thank you Chicago! Due to your incredible support of The Principle this weekend, the Marcus Addison Cinema has extended the movie for a second week! Get your tickets today! http://bit.ly/1vFsXR9
The Principle
30 minutes ago
Audiences were breaking out into applause at tonight's sold-out 4:15 showing...word is spreading and it is now very clear that "The Principle" is on the way to expansion both in Chicago, and in other cities.
But first things first-
California here we come!
ir is always good when there is a controversy, regardless of the aftermath, it offers the possibility to rethink points of view that we take for granted.
But I dont think the geocentrism can be resurrected because the Singularity (the Dot or zero point energy) is at the center of every vortex (life motion) found at every level of creation/matter, would it be in an atom, planet earth or any galaxy. So I am sticking to what I have said months ago, everything at a cosmic level represents the center of The Greater Scheme of All Things. The All That Is.
Zero Point Energy is found at every point of the entire Universe, vortex or not. In matter, in vacuum - everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by singular_me
When we peer into the Quantum level, we are seeing a blurry vision of God's domain. The Higgs Boson may very well be an important particle, but it's not "the god particle" - it would be, rather, God's particle.
hey john what do you think of the show ancient aliens , what I have seen there making shit up and hoping people buy this crap I hope I am not the only one that see this
Robert Sungenis has come out with a video form of his book "Galileo Was Wrong". It is pretty good, and the animations explain a lot of what is happening. You can get it here: http://gwwdvd.com/.
"The Principle", which explores the Copernican Principle, will be available this fall on DVD also. The two make great companion DVDs.