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Thread: Get Ready for a 70% Marginal Tax Rate

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    Iridium mamboni's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Get Ready for a 70% Marginal Tax Rate

    Get Ready for a 70% Marginal Tax Rate

    Some argue the U.S. economy can bear higher pre-Reagan tax rates. But those rates applied to a much smaller fraction of taxpayers than what we're headed for without spending cuts.

    By MICHAEL J. BOSKIN

    President Obama has been using the debt-ceiling debate and bipartisan calls for deficit reduction to demand higher taxes. With unemployment stuck at 9.2% and a vigorous economic "recovery" appearing more and more elusive, his timing couldn't be worse.

    Two problems arise when marginal tax rates are raised. First, as college students learn in Econ 101, higher marginal rates cause real economic harm. The combined marginal rate from all taxes is a vital metric, since it heavily influences incentives in the economy—workers and employers, savers and investors base decisions on after-tax returns. Thus tax rates need to be kept as low as possible, on the broadest possible base, consistent with financing necessary government spending.

    Second, as tax rates rise, the tax base shrinks and ultimately, as Art Laffer has long argued, tax rates can become so prohibitive that raising them further reduces revenue—not to mention damaging the economy. That is where U.S. tax rates are headed if we do not control spending soon.

    The current top federal rate of 35% is scheduled to rise to 39.6% in 2013 (plus one-to-two points from the phase-out of itemized deductions for singles making above $200,000 and couples earning above $250,000). The payroll tax is 12.4% for Social Security (capped at $106,000), and 2.9% for Medicare (no income cap). While the payroll tax is theoretically split between employers and employees, the employers' share is ultimately shifted to workers in the form of lower wages.

    But there are also state income taxes that need to be kept in mind. They contribute to the burden. The top state personal rate in California, for example, is now about 10.5%. Thus the marginal tax rate paid on wages combining all these taxes is 44.1%. (This is a net figure because state income taxes paid are deducted from federal income.)
    So, for a family in high-cost California taxed at the top federal rate, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts in 2013, the 0.9% increase in payroll taxes to fund ObamaCare, and the president's proposal to eventually uncap Social Security payroll taxes would lift its combined marginal tax rate to a stunning 58.4%.
    http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0717164112.jpg


    But wait, things get worse. As Milton Friedman taught decades ago, the true burden on taxpayers today is government spending; government borrowing requires future interest payments out of future taxes. To cover the Congressional Budget Office projection of Mr. Obama's $841 billion deficit in 2016 requires a 31.7% increase in all income tax rates (and that's assuming the Social Security income cap is removed). This raises the top rate to 52.2% and brings the total combined marginal tax rate to 68.8%. Government, in short, would take over two-thirds of any incremental earnings.

    Many Democrats demand no changes to Social Security and Medicare spending. But these programs are projected to run ever-growing deficits totaling tens of trillions of dollars in coming decades, primarily from rising real benefits per beneficiary. To cover these projected deficits would require continually higher income and payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare on all taxpayers that would drive the combined marginal tax rate on labor income to more than 70% by 2035 and 80% by 2050. And that's before accounting for the Laffer effect, likely future interest costs, state deficits and the rising ratio of voters receiving government payments to those paying income taxes.

    It would be a huge mistake to imagine that the cumulative, cascading burden of many tax rates on the same income will leave the middle class untouched. Take a teacher in California earning $60,000. A current federal rate of 25%, a 9.5% California rate, and 15.3% payroll tax yield a combined income tax rate of 45%. The income tax increases to cover the CBO's projected federal deficit in 2016 raises that to 52%. Covering future Social Security and Medicare deficits brings the combined marginal tax rate on that middle-income taxpayer to an astounding 71%. That teacher working a summer job would keep just 29% of her wages. At the margin, virtually everyone would be working primarily for the government, reduced to a minority partner in their own labor.

    Nobody—rich, middle-income or poor—can afford to have the economy so burdened. Higher tax rates are the major reason why European per-capita income, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, is about 30% lower than in the United States—a permanent difference many times the temporary decline in the recent recession and anemic recovery.

    Some argue the U.S. economy can easily bear higher pre-Reagan tax rates. They point to the 1930s-1950s, when top marginal rates were between 79% and 94%, or the Carter-era 1970s, when the top rate was about 70%. But those rates applied to a much smaller fraction of taxpayers and kicked in at much higher income levels relative to today.

    There were also greater opportunities for sheltering income from the income tax. The lower marginal tax rates in the 1980s led to the best quarter-century of economic performance in American history. Large increases in tax rates are a recipe for economic stagnation, socioeconomic ossification, and the loss of American global competitiveness and leadership.

    continued at: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop
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    Frog Leg Whisperer chad's Avatar
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    my village wants to rezone agricultural + raise property taxes from $300 an acre to $780. my property taxes would go from $3,000 a year to $7,800.

    it's not fair that "so many of us live out + enjoy the lake area while doing nothing to use our farm property in an agricultural manner."

    since i do not use my acreage to graze cows, i should pay an extra $4,800 per year.

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    Unobtanium Dogman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    my village wants to rezone agricultural + raise property taxes from $300 an acre to $780. my property taxes would go from $3,000 a year to $7,800.

    it's not fair that "so many of us live out + enjoy the lake area while doing nothing to use our farm property in an agricultural manner."

    since i do not use my acreage to graze cows, i should pay an extra $4,800 per year.
    Sucks, they are looking for revenue. If they do it , get a dam calf every year and feed it, 6 or so months to fatten for the freezer. Know bunch of familys in this area that have done it for years. For two reasons, 1. Tax reasons , cow=farm=less tax. 2. Best dam beef that you can eat if done right and hung long enough,18-25 days or more. And you know what is in the meat.

    It may turn out cheaper, than the tax increase. And also to thumb your nose saying fuckum to the money grabbers.
    "My reading no matter how transient is a dagger in the heart of ignorance."

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    Frog Leg Whisperer chad's Avatar
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    the ultimate purpose of it is to run us all off. then this land we all own around the lake can be sold to developers, split up and built in to subdivisions, rezoned, and then taxed at a hugely increased rate.

    there's about 22 of us versus a town of 12,000, so we'll see how it goes.

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    Unobtanium Dogman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    the ultimate purpose of it is to run us all off. then this land we all own around the lake can be sold to developers, split up and built in to subdivisions, rezoned, and then taxed at a hugely increased rate.

    there's about 22 of us versus a town of 12,000, so we'll see how it goes.
    Oh , that kind of deal. There has to be a developer that is pushing this, sorry to hear he or they are so dam lucky that bad things do not happen to them , accidents and the such. Yep, it is called greed and that is very hard to fight. The village looking at tax revenue at minimum. And the developers looking at the profits they will make building and selling the property's. I know a few here that should be hung/shot on sight.

    Good luck in the contest!
    "My reading no matter how transient is a dagger in the heart of ignorance."

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    Platinum mightymanx's Avatar
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    The cancer is metastatizing.

    It's going to get much worse before it finnaly breaks.

    Think the UK and where thay take 100% and then give you what they think you "need".
    Please remember.... once the pin is removed, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.

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    This is the real SHTF scenario right here - while everyone is waiting for food riots and social collapse the real end of a person's life as they know it will be when they simply stop paying taxes because they are too onerous and a squad of IRS SWAT officers show up at their home to finish them off. THAT is likely to end up being the ultimate game changer when the Feds bring it to your doorstep to take you away. At that point your life, everything you've worked hard for, and your family's future will all be destroyed by the government with a petty apparatus out to collect the King's tribute. Think about it - we all pay taxes because it is the one thing we all know the Feds will not tolerate if we refuse, less people begin to realize that cutting off the revenue stream is a powerful way to starve the beast and improve their own lives. Can't have anything like that in the new America when there's oligarchs to support. Remember Edward and Elaine Brown - they are the harbinger of things to come.

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    Frog Leg Whisperer chad's Avatar
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    if this passes, i will be paying my village $650 a month to live on land i own. also consider, that since i live far out in the country i receive no:

    - police (we have a sheriff)
    - no fire services (volunteer department that charges)
    - no garbage pickup (pay for your own via private company)
    - no city services (water, sewer, etc).

    basically i am paying for the school system (which i don't use, my kids go to private, christian school).

    $650 a month in taxes is very near my mortgage payment amount. now that is fucked up.

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    Unobtanium Dogman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    if this passes, i will be paying my village $650 a month to live on land i own. also consider, that since i live far out in the country i receive no:

    - police (we have a sheriff)
    - no fire services (volunteer department that charges)
    - no garbage pickup (pay for your own via private company)
    - no city services (water, sewer, etc).

    basically i am paying for the school system (which i don't use, my kids go to private, christian school).

    $650 a month in taxes is very near my mortgage payment amount. now that is fucked up.
    That sucks, maybe time to get the hell out of dodge, if things turn for the worse. It may boil down into a lawsuit that will cost out of the ass. So are you in the village limits? Does anyone in the village have water , and the other things that you will be forced to pay for?
    "My reading no matter how transient is a dagger in the heart of ignorance."

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    Gold platinumdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    if this passes, i will be paying my village $650 a month to live on land i own. also consider, that since i live far out in the country i receive no:

    - police (we have a sheriff)
    - no fire services (volunteer department that charges)
    - no garbage pickup (pay for your own via private company)
    - no city services (water, sewer, etc).

    basically i am paying for the school system (which i don't use, my kids go to private, christian school).

    $650 a month in taxes is very near my mortgage payment amount. now that is fucked up.

    That is way messed up. I live in the city with all of the so called benefits and only pay about $800 a year on property taxes.

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