What if the Jap reactor Blows??? what will be the effect on the Western USA???

[keehah]

Tokyo Water Unsafe For Infants (http://www.thirdage.com/news/tokyo-water-unsafe-infants_3-23-2011)

March 23, 2011 3:03 PM By Emily Jacobson
Tokyo water containing high levels of radioactive iodine has been detected in the city’s tap water, and a city official has warned parents not to give it to their infants.

Abnormal levels of radioactive iodine-131 were detected in the water in Tokyo and in Fukushima prefecture, the site of the nuclear power plant critically damaged in the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. Since the disaster, radioactive substances have leaked into the air, knocking out the plant’s reactor cooling systems.

"Under government guidelines, water containing a radioactive substance of more than 100 becquerels per kilogramme should not be used for milk for babies," the city official told reporters.

The municipal government has warned residents throughout the entire city to avoid using tap water to make infant formula for the time being. Iodine-131 has a half-life of eight days, meaning half of it will have decayed after eight days. The level deemed safe for adults is 300 becquerels per kilogramme.

SydneyMH.com: Tokyo water unsafe for babies, food bans imposed (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/tokyo-water-unsafe-for-babies-food-bans-imposed-20110324-1c6yg.html)

In one Tokyo ward, a water sample contained 210 becquerels of iodine per kilogramme, or more than double Japan's legal limit, a city official said. Tokyo's stock market dived 1.6 percent on the news.

The government advised residents throughout the city to avoid using tap water to make infant milk formula until further notice, and said it would distribute 240,000 water bottles to households in need.

Bottled water quickly disappeared from shelves in Tokyo as people rushed to stock up despite government appeals against panic-buying, Kyodo News reported.



http://www.nwcn.com/news/health/FAQ-about-nuclear-power-and-radiation-118107919.html

Nonionizing radiation comes in the form of light, radio waves, microwaves and radar. This kind of radiation usually does not cause tissue damage.

Ionizing radiation produces immediate chemical effects on human tissue. X-rays, gamma rays, and particle bombardment (neutron beam, electron beam, protons, mesons, and others) give off ionizing radiation.
JapanTimes, Thursday, March 24, 2011 (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110324a6.html)

Neutron beam observed 13 times
Kyodo News
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of its crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant.

Tepco said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 km southwest of the plant's Nos. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour. This is not a dangerous level of radiation, it added.

The utility said it will also measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam.
CNN, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 (http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/03/japanese-nuclear-reactor-workers-evacuated-again/)

Workers at the troubled Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan were evacuated Wednesday as smoke spewed into their facilities for the second day in a row. According to CNN, officials with the Tokyo Electric Power Company said that “something is on fire” but didn’t say what.

[Spectrism]

Tokyo Water Unsafe For Infants (http://www.thirdage.com/news/tokyo-water-unsafe-infants_3-23-2011)

March 23, 2011 3:03 PM By Emily Jacobson
Tokyo water containing high levels of radioactive iodine has been detected in the city’s tap water, and a city official has warned parents not to give it to their infants.

Abnormal levels of radioactive iodine-131 were detected in the water in Tokyo and in Fukushima prefecture, the site of the nuclear power plant critically damaged in the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. Since the disaster, radioactive substances have leaked into the air, knocking out the plant’s reactor cooling systems.

"Under government guidelines, water containing a radioactive substance of more than 100 becquerels per kilogramme should not be used for milk for babies," the city official told reporters.

The municipal government has warned residents throughout the entire city to avoid using tap water to make infant formula for the time being. Iodine-131 has a half-life of eight days, meaning half of it will have decayed after eight days. The level deemed safe for adults is 300 becquerels per kilogramme.

SydneyMH.com: Tokyo water unsafe for babies, food bans imposed (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/tokyo-water-unsafe-for-babies-food-bans-imposed-20110324-1c6yg.html)

In one Tokyo ward, a water sample contained 210 becquerels of iodine per kilogramme, or more than double Japan's legal limit, a city official said. Tokyo's stock market dived 1.6 percent on the news.

The government advised residents throughout the city to avoid using tap water to make infant milk formula until further notice, and said it would distribute 240,000 water bottles to households in need.

Bottled water quickly disappeared from shelves in Tokyo as people rushed to stock up despite government appeals against panic-buying, Kyodo News reported.



Just a note- a half life of 8 days does not mean it is all gone in 8 days. It means half is left in 8 days. Then in 16 days, 1/4 is left. On the 24th day, 1/8th is left... and so on.

If it is unsafe for baby formula, would you- as an adult- want to ingest it?

One more thing.... how many people are in Tokyo? How much water would they need to truck in for 13 million people for 32 days minimum? And this is presuming there is no more radiation leaking out!

[Antonio]

http://www.counterpunch.org/takashi03222011.html

What They're Covering Up at Fukushima
By HIROSE TAKASHI

[Large Sarge]

the thing I keep seeing on radiation is that it interferes with glutathione production,

one thing in the back of my mind (from an old article or book), is I seem to remember people that did high doses of vitamin E (not sur ehte amounts right now), were essentially immune to problems from radiation.

Anyway this is an old article, so let me dig around some, do some searching.

I am confident on boosting glutathion production, and the things you mentioned are good (especially the clay, getting rid of waste)




here is one, and it is Vitamin E that helps with radiation (vitamin C would be good also IMO)

http://media.www.brockpress.com/media/storage/paper384/news/2011/01/11/News/Protective.And.Preventative.Methods.Against.Radiat ion.Exposure.Being.Explored.At-3968176.shtml

[keehah]

NHK: Extremely high radiation found in soil (http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/23_28.html)

Japanese authorities have detected a concentration of a radioactive substance 1,600 times higher than normal in soil at a village, 40 kilometers away from the troubled nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture.

The disaster task force in Fukushima composed of the central and local governments surveyed radioactive substances in soil about 5 centimeters below the surface at 6 locations around the plant from last Friday through Tuesday.

The results announced on Wednesday show that 163,000 becquerels of radioactive cesium-137 per kilogram of soil has been detected in Iitate Village, about 40 kilometers northwest of the plant.

Gakushuin University Professor Yasuyuki Muramatsu, an expert on radiation in the environment, says that normal levels of radioactive cesium-137 in soil are around 100 becquerels at most. The professor says he was surprised at the extremely high reading, which is 1,630 times higher than normal levels.

[Large Sarge]

the shute brothers did megadosing of vitamin E, I am trying to find their protocols....

basically the premise is that the body is under extra stress (from radiation), so give it extra protection

all the things it needs to repair itself

[Large Sarge]

really long thread/discussion on megadosing vitamin E

http://yarchive.net/med/vitamin_e.html

[Large Sarge]

here is their (shute brothers) book, on megadosing vitamin E

http://www.amazon.com/Wilfrid-Shutes-Complete-Updated-Vitamin-Book/dp/0879831510

cannot find their protocol

[mamboni]

Dr. Mamboni's Anti-oxidant anti-free radical regimen:

1. Vitamin C 500 mg q6h (2 gm per day), better with bioflavinoids (white stuff from inside orange peel).
2. Vitamin E alpha-tocopherol 800 IU (more is over kill and can cause bleeding in some)
3. Selenium (organic) 50 mcg/day (selenium is toxic at high dosages - more is not better)
4. Vitamin D3 - 5,000 IU per day
5. Ethanol - one shot of hard liquor every 2 hours (yes, it's true - alcohol is a good hydroxyl radical scavenger).
6. Multimineral supplement with RDA of copper and zinc (to make SOD).
7. Soy lecithin granules - ad libitum: nature's emulsifier, source of essential fats, natural preservative and anti-oxidant.

Natural supplements: Oil of Primrose, Cloves (extremely powerful antioxidant), rose hips.

[beefsteak]

Tokyo Water Unsafe For Infants (http://www.thirdage.com/news/tokyo-water-unsafe-infants_3-23-2011)

March 23, 2011 3:03 PM By Emily Jacobson
Tokyo water containing high levels of radioactive iodine has been detected in the city’s tap water, and a city official has warned parents not to give it to their infants.

Abnormal levels of radioactive iodine-131 were detected in the water in Tokyo and in Fukushima prefecture, the site of the nuclear power plant critically damaged in the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. Since the disaster, radioactive substances have leaked into the air, knocking out the plant’s reactor cooling systems.

"Under government guidelines, water containing a radioactive substance of more than 100 becquerels per kilogramme should not be used for milk for babies," the city official told reporters.

The municipal government has warned residents throughout the entire city to avoid using tap water to make infant formula for the time being. Iodine-131 has a half-life of eight days, meaning half of it will have decayed after eight days. The level deemed safe for adults is 300 becquerels per kilogramme.

SydneyMH.com: Tokyo water unsafe for babies, food bans imposed (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/tokyo-water-unsafe-for-babies-food-bans-imposed-20110324-1c6yg.html)

In one Tokyo ward, a water sample contained 210 becquerels of iodine per kilogramme, or more than double Japan's legal limit, a city official said. Tokyo's stock market dived 1.6 percent on the news.

The government advised residents throughout the city to avoid using tap water to make infant milk formula until further notice, and said it would distribute 240,000 water bottles to households in need.

Bottled water quickly disappeared from shelves in Tokyo as people rushed to stock up despite government appeals against panic-buying, Kyodo News reported.



If it is unsafe for baby formula, would you- as an adult- want to ingest it?



Spectrism,
reading your one particular line response above wrt. warning about baby formulation (powder mixed with unsafe H20) makes me think of all the precautions those of us who raise fish in aquariums have to contend with on a regular basis, here in the USA.

Several municipalities in the US have various warnings posted at various times about the available water is NOT RECOMMENDED for fish or other pets, such as floridated water, and chlorinated water, etc.

Now, only protect the Japanese babies from this stuff...and not the mother and father and extended family committed to raising this "village infant?"

Unbelievable!

[Large Sarge]

I have not tried megadosing vitamin E, and respect the good doctor mamboni immensely, but it has been my experience that a lot of the things the govt and medicine say are dangerous are really not, and the things they say are good (most prescription drugs) are really bad

George Orwell would be proud of the general level of confusion

in a situation of forced exposure to radiation, I would personally take my chances with the high doses of vitamin e, you can always stop or reduce the level if you get side effects.

[mamboni]

I have not tried megadosing vitamin E, and respect the good doctor mamboni immensely, but it has been my experience that a lot of the things the govt and medicine say are dangerous are really not, and the things they say are good (most prescription drugs) are really bad

George Orwell would be proud of the general level of confusion

in a situation of forced exposure to radiation, I would personally take my chances with the high doses of vitamin e, you can always stop or reduce the level if you get side effects.




Sarge:

Many years ago, when I was a young whiz kid graduate-med student, I did research on this free-radical stuff. I immersed myself in the field and read hundreds of scientifc papers and symposia. My experiments and the literature taught me a few things:

1. Vitamin E as anti-oxidant is over-rated because lipid peroxidation is not that big a problem in vivo.
2. radiation does its damage by splitting water water molecules into hydroxyl radicals - these are the proximate cause of DNA and protein/lipid damage.
3. Vitamin C, glutathione and urate are far more important than vitamin E in vivo for scavenging hydroxyl radicals which are water-based.
4. Best man-made radial scavenger is BHT (butylated hydroxyl toluene). I used to have a 1/2 kilogram bottle of BHT granules in the lab - enough to supplement a million people for years.

Anecdote: As a kid, I remember finding BHT granules at the bottom of a ceral container, though at the time I didn't know what they were. The addition of BHT to cereals and other foodstuffs greatly extends shelf life and coincides with a precipitous drop in the incidence of gastic cancer. Coincidence or not? :dunno

[Large Sarge]

I have not tried megadosing vitamin E, and respect the good doctor mamboni immensely, but it has been my experience that a lot of the things the govt and medicine say are dangerous are really not, and the things they say are good (most prescription drugs) are really bad

George Orwell would be proud of the general level of confusion

in a situation of forced exposure to radiation, I would personally take my chances with the high doses of vitamin e, you can always stop or reduce the level if you get side effects.




Sarge:

Many years ago, when I was a young whiz kid graduate-med student, I did research on this free-radical stuff. I immersed myself in the field and read hundreds of scientifc papers and symposia. My experiments and the literature taught me a few things:

1. Vitamin E as anti-oxidant is over-rated because lipid peroxidation is not that big a problem in vivo.
2. radiation does its damage by splitting water water molecules into hydroxyl radicals - these are the proximate cause of DNA and protein/lipid damage.
3. Vitamin C, glutathione and urate are far more important than vitamin E in vivo for scavenging hydroxyl radicals which are water-based.
4. Best man-made radial scavenger is BHT (butylated hydroxyl toluene). I used to have a 1/2 kilogram bottle of BHT granules in the lab - enough to supplement a million people for years.

Anecdote: As a kid, I remember finding BHT granules at the bottom of a ceral container, though at the time I didn't know what they were. The addition of BHT to cereals and other foodstuffs greatly extends shelf life and coincides with a precipitous drop in the incidence of gastic cancer. Coincidence or not? :dunno


interesting info,

and I agree on Vitamin C megadosing


I wonder if radiation destroys/damages the mitochondria as well?

I personally weigh about 235 lbs, and I am fairly active, I find it rather preposterous that my RDA for vitamin E is the same as someone who weighs 120 lbs, and is not active.

see my point?

I have megadosed vitamin C and Niacin (for long periods)

I have noticed that if I am fighting a bug, or doing a lot of exercise/exertions, my tolerance for vitamin C goes through the roof, I can remember taking almost 30 grams a day for a few days (and not living on the toilet, still having solid stools)

Vitmain C is critical stuff, so is Niacin

I will do some "home experimentation" with vitamin E

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NxhNzDtmds&feature=player_embedded#at=125



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5IV4kWMwU&feature=related


This footage apparently shows two UFOs swooping in as the explosion at Fukushima takes place. Could they have prevented a nuclear disaster? The person who sent us this footage claims it has been through a series of filters and enhancement programs, as the original TV footage shows little or nothing of the craft. He also claims the original TV footage has been altered to conceal the UFOs intervention. The jury's out on this one guys, as always you decide if its real or fake.

[oldmansmith]

Dr. Mamboni's Anti-oxidant anti-free radical regimen:

1. Vitamin C 500 mg q6h (2 gm per day), better with bioflavinoids (white stuff from inside orange peel).
2. Vitamin E alpha-tocopherol 800 IU (more is over kill and can cause bleeding in some)
3. Selenium (organic) 50 mcg/day (selenium is toxic at high dosages - more is not better)
4. Vitamin D3 - 5,000 IU per day
5. Ethanol - one shot of hard liquor every 2 hours (yes, it's true - alcohol is a good hydroxyl radical scavenger).
6. Multimineral supplement with RDA of copper and zinc (to make SOD).
7. Soy lecithin granules - ad libitum: nature's emulsifier, source of essential fats, natural preservative and anti-oxidant.

Natural supplements: Oil of Primrose, Cloves (extremely powerful antioxidant), rose hips.


No N-Acetyl Cysteine and alpha lipoic acid?

It is my understanding that N-acetyl cysteine is a glutathione precursor, and that alpha lipoic acid recharges both vitamins C and E (operates in both aqueous and lipid environments). I take them every day.

I also eat blueberries and raspberries from my garden every day, although the freezer is getting a little low.

.

[Large Sarge]

Alpha Lipoic Acid is amazing stuff

the best book on health/aging I have ever read is

"bursting with energy" by Dr. Frank Shallenberger

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=813&q=shallenberger+%26+aging&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=71228fe0fab197de

get the book, visit his website, etc

guy is a true genius,

I have read (and re-read) that book countless times, all the clouds parted after reading that one

as an aside, Dr. Shallenberger gives the only instruction on the use of ozone medically in the U.S. (about the only one in the world really)

Shallenberger is a real pioneer, true genius

[Large Sarge]

(sorry for getting off topic)

but shallenberger covers how all illnesses and aging are really a lack of energy, I suspect radiation illness would be the same

shallenberger on "bursting with energy"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2626016195040995338#

[lapis]

I am confident on boosting glutathion production, and the things you mentioned are good

Here's a good article by researcher Chris Masterjohn:

The Biochemical Magic of Raw Milk and Other Raw Foods: Glutathione

http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/2010/09/11/the-biochemical-magic-of-raw-milk-and-other-raw-foods-glutathione/

[Antonio]

Guys, I`ve been eating Alpha Lipoic Acid ,Q10, vitamins etc for years. Mamboni, are you sure booze is good for you? I feel horrible even after 1-2 shots after the initial euphoria wears off, to me drinking is like sniffing glue, the dependance on volatile solvents...
Please, could you find info that opiates or coke are decent antioxidants? That would make me feel much better because I ain`t drinking for any reason...

[Eyebone]

Nothing to worry about, nothing to worry about, isn't radiation cumulative?

[Antonio]

http://rense.com/general93/72000.htm

Fukushima Now 72,000
Times Hiroshima Radiation
3-23-11

Dr. Chris Busby verified today in an email that three spent fuel pools are totally blasted away and burned up. That puts the approximate radiation levels at 24,000 HIROSHIMAS x 3 = 72,000 times the radiation of Hiroshima now in the atmosphere. Remember, this is JUST from the spent fuel pools. Radiation escaping from the reactors is another story altogether.

We have now all had time to evaluate what we believe is the truth behind the Japanese Nuclear Incident (or should I say disaster) and it has become clear that we have all been deceived by the Japanese Authorities, their nuclear establishment, the IAEA, the international pro nuclear groups and more importantly the so called experts that are invited onto the mainstream media channels to blast us with nothing more than total spin. We have heard from nuclear experts from Chatham House (the NWO voice box) and such people as Prof. Gerry Thomas from Imperial College London."

They all keep playing down this disaster without themselves fully understanding the implications on human health and the antiquated testing methods used in the assessment of potential victims. It is only when one listens to such people as Dr. Chris Busby that you get to understand the true picture of the side effects of contamination by ingestion i.e. depleted uranium etc.

[beefsteak]

http://rense.com/general93/72000.htm

Fukushima Now 72,000
Times Hiroshima Radiation
3-23-11

Dr. Chris Busby verified today in an email that three spent fuel pools are totally blasted away and burned up. That puts the approximate radiation levels at 24,000 HIROSHIMAS x 3 = 72,000 times the radiation of Hiroshima now in the atmosphere. Remember, this is JUST from the spent fuel pools. Radiation escaping from the reactors is another story altogether.

We have now all had time to evaluate what we believe is the truth behind the Japanese Nuclear Incident (or should I say disaster) and it has become clear that we have all been deceived by the Japanese Authorities, their nuclear establishment, the IAEA, the international pro nuclear groups and more importantly the so called experts that are invited onto the mainstream media channels to blast us with nothing more than total spin. We have heard from nuclear experts from Chatham House (the NWO voice box) and such people as Prof. Gerry Thomas from Imperial College London."

They all keep playing down this disaster without themselves fully understanding the implications on human health and the antiquated testing methods used in the assessment of potential victims. It is only when one listens to such people as Dr. Chris Busby that you get to understand the true picture of the side effects of contamination by ingestion i.e. depleted uranium etc.




Here's the CV of Dr. Chris Busby...he appears to be the "real deal."
http://www.llrc.org/misc/subtopic/cvbusby.pdf

Now, that I've established that veracity for me personally, I'll allow my eyebrows to shoot up to my receding hairline. :o

[beefsteak]

Mail Online...a UK news source, posted the following article with several photos both of the facilities, and the "walking dead" at Fukushima complex.

No commentary, just a URL.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369216/Fukushima-Fifty-First-pictures-emerge-inside-Japans-stricken-nuclear-power-plant.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[beefsteak]

I have a question for the forum. Does distillation of drinking water do anything to reduce the "radiation load" for the Japanese people fortunate enough to even own a home distiller?

I thought I saw someone advertise a distillation unit in the last 48-72hrs aimed for the Japanese consumer, and at the time, I thought it was hooey.
But what do I know?

And where does the "radiation go?" Into the plastic of the home distiller? I obviously don't understand this one!

Any thoughts, URLs or anything "distillation" from believable sources wrt. this water mystery?

[Large Sarge]

I have a question for the forum. Does distillation of drinking water do anything to reduce the "radiation load" for the Japanese people fortunate enough to even own a home distiller?

I thought I saw someone advertise a distillation unit in the last 48-72hrs aimed for the Japanese consumer, and at the time, I thought it was hooey.
But what do I know?

And where does the "radiation go?" Into the plastic of the home distiller. I obviously don't understand this one!

Any thoughts, URLs or anything "distillation" from believable sources wrt. this water mystery?




nuclear material needs a pre-filter (earth bucket type)

http://www.parowanprophet.com/Nuclear_War_Comes/water_filter_instructions.htm

[PatColo]

haven't read the whole thread or even this full article yet, no time gotta run, sorry if repost:

Scientist: Japan nuke “accidents” are tectonic nuclear warfare (http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/03/23/scientist-japan-nuke-%E2%80%9Caccident%E2%80%9D-are-tectonic-nuclear-warfare/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+pakalert+%28Pak+Alert+Press%2 9)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WxmeOqYtB0

[DMac]

haven't read the whole thread or even this full article yet, no time gotta run, sorry if repost:

Scientist: Japan nuke “accidents” are tectonic nuclear warfare (http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/03/23/scientist-japan-nuke-%E2%80%9Caccident%E2%80%9D-are-tectonic-nuclear-warfare/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+pakalert+%28Pak+Alert+Press%2 9)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WxmeOqYtB0


She makes a huge error in claiming the uranium rods used in the reactor are equivalent to nuclear weapons, as uranium is enriched to <3% for reactor fuel and well over 90% for weapons purposes.

I'm all for a good tin foil theory but this lady never actually states empirical data, nothing but hearsay :/ (45mins in the video so far..)

[gunDriller]

Now, that I've established that veracity for me personally, I'll allow my eyebrows to shoot up to my receding hairline. :o


think the radiation could help my hair grow back ? ???

the rug on my head is way too obvious. and implants are kind of expensive. ::)

maybe the Japanese could export Fukushima Water. probably has all sorts of possible medical uses.

[Serpo]

The Japanese road repaired SIX days after it was destroyed by quake


The picture of gaping chasms in a Japanese highway demonstrated the power of the March 11 earthquake.

Now the astonishing speed of reconstruction is being used to highlight the nation’s ability to get back on its feet.

Work began on March 17 and six days later the cratered section of the Great Kanto Highway in Naka was as good as new. It was ready to re-open to traffic last night.
Now you see it...: This stretch of the Great Kanto highway was wrecked by deep chasms in the March 11 earthquake - but was repaired in just six days

Now you see it...: This stretch of the Great Kanto highway was wrecked by deep chasms in the March 11 earthquake - but was repaired in just six days

Many workers returned to their jobs the day after the quake and subsequent tsunami and some businesses in the worst-hit regions have already reopened.

The Japanese recovery has prompted some investors, including American Warren Buffett, one of the world’s richest men, to declare that the disaster which has left 23,000 dead or missing represents a ‘buying opportunity’ in the money markets.

Meanwhile, mothers in Tokyo were warned yesterday not to give tap water to their babies.


More...

* Where do I begin? Businessman sifts through wreckage of his office in the town wiped out by the tsunami
* MICHAEL HANLON: The Japanese disaster PROVES the value and safety of nuclear power
* U.S. bans Japanese food imports from regions closest to stricken nuclear plant as Tokyo tap water is ruled 'unfit for babies'
* First pictures emerge of the Fukushima Fifty as they battle radiation poisoning to save Japan's stricken nuclear power plant

Cars with loudspeakers toured the streets of the capital after levels of radiation from the damaged nuclear plant at Fukushima, nearly 150 miles away, reached more than twice the safety level for children aged a year or less.

Supermarkets were quickly emptied of bottled water in many parts of the city. Parents were also told to ensure that milk was not from cows in the Fukushima district.

Tokyo residents said they had growing concerns about radiation.

‘If they’re saying it’s harmful for children because their bodies are smaller and dangerous iodine can accumulate in their thyroid glands, we can understand that,’ said 29-year-old department store worker Yasuke Harade.

‘But can we really believe it when they say that it’s OK for adults to drink the water? Can we cook our rice in tap water, can we drink tea, coffee? They’re telling us we can, but what is the truth?’

To add to the fears, two strong earthquakes shook the devastated east coast yesterday, and black smoke billowed once again from the crippled plant. The ‘Fukushima Fifty’, the team of courageous employees working inside the plant, and firemen spraying water on the complex were ordered to evacuate immediately.

It was not known when efforts to restore the plant’s cooling mechanism would be restarted.

The scare followed reports that small amounts of radiation had travelled as far as Iceland.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369307/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-Road-repaired-SIX-days-destroyed.html#ixzz1HYUSF37f

Also this about a porpoise found inland in rice paddy

http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan_disaster/porpoise-stranded-japans-tsunami-rescued-rice-paddy/story?id=13211991

[Serpo]

By Jim Axelrod


The recent disaster in Japan has sparked fears in the U.S. over the storage of nuclear waste and potential dangers involved. Jim Axelrod reports that several states are now taking legal action.




Taking the lead on a major problem for many states, South Carolina and Washington state went to court Tuesday demanding that the Nuclear Regulatory Committee provide a place to permanently store radioactive waste.

"I think the problem is demonstrated by the recent events in Japan in that storing it near communities is great while it works, but if something goes wrong, people are exposed to great risk," said Andrew Fitz, assistant Attorney General, Washington state.



The storage tanks were never meant to be a permanent solution. The nation's oldest operating reactor, Oyster Creek in New Jersey, has stored some spent fuel for 41 years - 20 years longer than expected.



An estimated 66,000 metric tons of spent fuel rods are stored at 77 sites around the country - that's more than 145 million pounds. Imagine an entire football field full of spent fuel rods, seven yards high.

Disaster in Japan: Latest updates, March 22

Currently 2,000 metric tons are added each year. That crowds the tanks, making them less efficient in reducing radioactivity.

"People want all the benefits of nuclear power,"(now they blame the people) said Jeffrey Lewis, a nuclear safety expert with the Monterey Institute. "And they want to pretend that there's no safety risk."

Blog: Who wants 66,000 tons of hot nuclear waste?

CBS News Poll: Support for new nuclear plants drops

Plans to make Nevada's Yucca Mountain a long-term storage site were scuttled by the Obama administration a year ago - after 20 years of planning and at a cost of $14 billion.

"We're looking at a longer timeframe for storage of spent fuel than we have in the past, but right now, we believe that spent fuel certainly can be stored safely and securely with the existing system," said Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The head of the NRC may not see a pressing problem, but the states now suing didn't want to take that risk before Japan's disaster, and certainly don't want to now.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/22/eveningnews/main20046033.shtml

[Large Sarge]

Tokyo Runs Out Of Bottled Water

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/24/2011 16:44 -0400


Australia
Hong Kong
Iceland
Japan
Nikkei
Reality
Reuters



While the broader population continues to read stories of a stoic Tokyo population, casually taking each day of deteriorating news from Fukushima in stride, the reality is far from what is being represented. The latest escalation: Tokyo is running out of bottle water, now that the government disclosed (with a two week delay), that drinking water is irradiated. From Reuters: "Many shops in Japan's capital ran out of bottled water on Thursday after a warning of radiation danger for babies from a damaged nuclear plant where engineers are battling the world's worst atomic crisis since Chernobyl." And if the government appears to be on the verge of losing control (and no city of 13 million can operate without water, no matter how bullish Douche Bank's chief strategist sounds on CNBC) after disclosing this one factoid, what happens when the true extent of the secondary effects from Fukushima are made public: "The government urged residents not to panic and hoard bottled water -- but many shops quickly sold out."If this is long term, I think we have a lot to worry about," said Riku Kato, father of a one-year-old baby." Perhaps it is time for Malcolm Gladwell to do a tipping point analysis of herding mentality, vis-a-vis a decision to participate in a mass urban exodus. Which brings up tonight's $64k question: is Snake Plissken too old for the "Escape from Tokyo" sequel.

From Reuters:

Nearly two weeks after the earthquake and tsunami that battered the Fukushima complex and devastated northeast Japan, Tokyo's 13 million people were told not to give infants tap water where contamination twice the safety level was detected.

Radiation levels above safety norms have also been found in milk and vegetables from the area around Fukushima, 250 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo.

The United States, Hong Kong and Australia have restricted food and milk imports from the zone, while Canada became the latest among numerous nations to tighten screening.

Radiation particles have been found as far away as Iceland, though Japan insists levels are still not dangerous to adults.

Jim Smith, of Britain's University of Portsmouth, said the finding of 210 becquerels of radioactive iodine -- more than twice the recommended limit -- at a Tokyo water purifier should not be cause for panic.

"The recommendation that infants are not given tap water is a sensible precaution. But it should be emphasized that the limit is set at a low level to ensure that consumption at that level is safe over a fairly long period of time," he said.

"This means that consumption of small amounts of tap water - a few liters, say - at twice the recommended limit would not present a significant health risk."

Yet some lobby groups are disputing this, suggesting that risks are being under-played.

Physicians for Social Responsibility, a U.S. anti-nuclear group, called for a stricter ban on sales of exposed food.

"There is no safe level of radionuclide exposure, whether from food, water or other sources. Period," said physician Jeff Patterson, a former president of the group.

Luckily, Tokyo is not a ghost city. Yet

Some locals and members of Tokyo's large expatriate population left the city right after the earthquake and tsunami.

The capital's streets remain unusually quiet and edgy.

"It's not just the radiation in water. I'm worried about aftershocks and it's possible that things could go bad at the nuclear plant," an office worker who only identified himself by his last name Yamaguchi said outside one shop that had run out of water bottles.


How long the tenuous status quo persists depends entirely on just how long the Japanese government belileves that a 10K Nikkei is more important than possible long-term (and lethal) radiation related aftereffects affecting its citizens.

[Large Sarge]

looks like since the bottled water is gone, its time to drink up some of the good contaminated stuff.....


those poor poor people

Japan is actually a very prepared nation

in 2 weeks they are drinking contaminated water...

imagine a disaster of this scope in Los Angeles, New York or Miami.....

it would be pandemonium after a few hours

[Cobalt]

Problem solved, just remove the suggestion to not drink the water :oo-->

Tokyo lifts advice against tap water

The Tokyo Metropolitan Government says it has lifted its advice against using tap water for consumption by infants in Tokyo's 23 wards and 5 adjacent cities.

The government said the level of radioactive iodine-131 in water at the Kanamachi purification plant on Thursday morning had dropped to 79 becquerels per liter -- below the recommended limit of 100 for infants under 1 year old. The government added that the level has been falling for 3 days.

The advisory had been issued after levels above the limit were detected at the plant on Tuesday and Wednesday.

On Friday, the government plans to continue testing the level at the plant and distribute 240,000 bottles of water to households with infants, following similar distribution on Thursday.

Thursday, March 24, 2011 17:12 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/24_40.html

[ximmy]

Problem solved, just remove the suggestion to not drink the water :oo-->

Tokyo lifts advice against tap water

The Tokyo Metropolitan Government says it has lifted its advice against using tap water for consumption by infants in Tokyo's 23 wards and 5 adjacent cities.

The government said the level of radioactive iodine-131 in water at the Kanamachi purification plant on Thursday morning had dropped to 79 becquerels per liter -- below the recommended limit of 100 for infants under 1 year old. The government added that the level has been falling for 3 days.

The advisory had been issued after levels above the limit were detected at the plant on Tuesday and Wednesday.

On Friday, the government plans to continue testing the level at the plant and distribute 240,000 bottles of water to households with infants, following similar distribution on Thursday.

Thursday, March 24, 2011 17:12 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/24_40.html


Japan uses example from American Media Propaganda

[Cobalt]

Well apparently that was yesterdays news because they are back to claiming the levels are too high for infants again :oo-->

Radioactive water detected in 6 prefectures

Radioactive water has been detected at water purification facilities in Tokyo and 5 other prefectures. The level of radioactive iodine-131 at 18 purification plants exceeds Japan's safety limit for infants.

Radioactive iodine-131 does not exist in nature. Experts believe it was carried by the wind from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to surrounding areas, and then washed down into rivers by rain.

The governments of Tokyo, Fukushima, Ibaraki, Chiba, Saitama and Tochigi prefectures have detected more than 100 becquerels of iodine per liter of water, above the safety level for infants under 12 months. But the water is safe for adults because it's not above the 300 becquerel safety limit for them.

Hosei University professor and air-borne contamination expert Kentaro Murano says it's hard to predict where the radioactive substances will spread, because the wind blows in various directions at this time of year.

Murano says people should not overreact when they see small changes in levels. He points out that if it rains several times, all the radioactive substances in the air and on the ground will be washed out to sea.

Professor Murano says the radioactivity in the water will decrease to safer levels within 2 weeks. But he warns that if more radioactive substances are emitted from the nuclear plant, the impact of the radioactivity will continue for some time to come.

Friday, March 25, 2011 01:25 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/25_02.html

[gunDriller]

Plans to make Nevada's Yucca Mountain a long-term storage site were scuttled by the Obama administration a year ago - after 20 years of planning and at a cost of $14 billion.

"We're looking at a longer timeframe for storage of spent fuel than we have in the past, but right now, we believe that spent fuel certainly can be stored safely and securely with the existing system," said Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The head of the NRC may not see a pressing problem, but the states now suing didn't want to take that risk before Japan's disaster, and certainly don't want to now.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/22/eveningnews/main20046033.shtml


cost is relative.

for TRW, who was then acquired by Northrop Grumman, the Yucca mountain studies were a win-win situation.

who do you think that $14 billion went to ?

the war toy boyz have this all figured out.

[beefsteak]

Anybody besides me look at that multi-creviced highway and wonder where the "re-bar" is? I don't see ANY poking out anywhere in those ribbons of asphalt!

They perform Just In Time miracles for morale, but ignore 40+ years of Nuke Plant "spent fuel pools?"

What's wrong with BOTH these pictures???

[Large Sarge]

I have little doubt that this was an attack on japan (earthquake/tsunami generated)

its hard to get a read if the govt is just bumbling at this point, or forces are trying to draw tyhis event out (like the gulf oil disaster dragged on, and continues today)

remember during the gulf oil disaster, no one was allowed to offer a real solution to the problem, it just kept (and is still spewing) spewing...

if this thing goes on much longer without talk of sealing them all (reactors) in concrete, well same game plan, different disaster....

[Horn]

looks like since the bottled water is gone, its time to drink up some of the good contaminated stuff.....


How long before the river starts pumping clean water their way, 100 years?

[Cobalt]

Anybody besides me look at that multi-creviced highway and wonder where the "re-bar" is? I don't see ANY poking out anywhere in those ribbons of asphalt!

They perform Just In Time miracles for morale, but ignore 40+ years of Nuke Plant "spent fuel pools?"

What's wrong with BOTH these pictures???


Rebar is seldom used in asphalt because asphalt is actually very soft when compared to concrete, the road would drop away from the rebar and leave it behind.

[beefsteak]

Cobalt,

EXCELLENT response! Their highways are not poured concrete based/re-bar reinforced/asphalt topped. They left out an import "ingredient"...and it took an earthquake to rent the highway into ribbons and expose this cutting of corners. This is an EXCELLENT representation of under-engineered and predictable outcome of the "just in time" much touted management psyche: sub-standard highway construction...IN A CONFLUENCE SEDUCTION ZONE no less.

What a lipstick on a pig highway construction model. And the world is wondering how "strongly built" the reactors pads are?

I'm sitting here wondering how and what, exactly, are those reactor pads made of under those reactors? ? ? ? ? ::)

[Cobalt]

High radiation detected in water at plant

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has detected high levels of radioactive substances in water that 3 workers were exposed to at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The company says 3.9 million becquerels of radioactive substances per cubic centimeter were detected in the water that the workers were standing in. That is 10,000 times higher than levels of the water inside a nuclear reactor in operation.

The level of radioactive cerium-144 was 2.2 million becquerels. Also, 1.2 million becquerels of iodine-131 was measured. These substances are generated during nuclear fission inside a reactor.

Tokyo Electric says damage to the No.3 reactor and spent nuclear fuel rods in a storage pool may have produced the highly radioactive water.

On Thursday, 2 of the 3 workers were taken to hospital after being exposed to 173 to 180 millisieverts of radiation while standing in 15-centimeters of water in the turbine building adjacent to the reactor. A third worker was also exposed to the higher-level radiation but did not require treatment.

Friday, March 25, 2011 08:22 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/25_10.html

[Serpo]

That is 10,000 times higher than levels of the water inside a nuclear reactor in operation.


That sounds high.

[Serpo]

Plans to make Nevada's Yucca Mountain a long-term storage site were scuttled by the Obama administration a year ago - after 20 years of planning and at a cost of $14 billion.

"We're looking at a longer timeframe for storage of spent fuel than we have in the past, but right now, we believe that spent fuel certainly can be stored safely and securely with the existing system," said Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The head of the NRC may not see a pressing problem, but the states now suing didn't want to take that risk before Japan's disaster, and certainly don't want to now.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/22/eveningnews/main20046033.shtml


cost is relative.

for TRW, who was then acquired by Northrop Grumman, the Yucca mountain studies were a win-win situation.

who do you think that $14 billion went to ?

the war toy boyz have this all figured out.


if nuclear energy is so safe ,how come they havnt learnt how to dispose of the waste yet.

[Glass]

Cobalt,

EXCELLENT response! Their highways are not poured concrete based/re-bar reinforced/asphalt topped. They left out an import "ingredient"...and it took an earthquake to rent the highway into ribbons and expose this cutting of corners. This is an EXCELLENT representation of under-engineered and predictable outcome of the "just in time" much touted management psyche: sub-standard highway construction...IN A CONFLUENCE SEDUCTION ZONE no less.

What a lipstick on a pig highway construction model. And the world is wondering how "strongly built" the reactors pads are?

I'm sitting here wondering how and what, exactly, are those reactor pads made of under those reactors? ? ? ? ? ::)


I don't think it is wholly necessary to construct roads with a re-inforced concrete pad base for a non suspended road and I don't think you can compare two completely different construction purposes and declare one is deficient therefore the other is also going to be deficient.

Where does that road lead to? Does it lead to one of the nuke plants or is it a major route they need to get emergency supplies in through? Australian roads are not built in the way US highway roads are. eg. concrete pad with ashphalt on top. We use several layers of different road bases, compacted and then overlaid with Asphalt. Now asphalt is not the same product as they used back in the 60s which was coarser with faily large grade bluemetal blended in. Those older types of roads were very solid and are often still in good condition even to this day.

The newer ashphalt (hotmix) material does go on a thinner base, has much smaller agregate in it. I would say probably 1/10 of what they used in the 60s. The difference is faster road construction with cars being able to use it within minutes, smoother surface however life span is definately shorter but I think that is a byproduct of the faster construction and the need to ensure make busy work continues with the need for roads to be resurfaced 20 years down the track instead of 50 years. Of course when the road system gets so large as it is in most cities now that the cities can not afford to maintain all the roads it has things will start to decay.

I expect they did a cost benefit. 2 x ashphalt roads is probably much less than 1 x older design 60+ year road. Then of course you have people who are now working their backsides off for their country and country men so emergency supplies can be delivered into hard hit areas.

[Horn]

if nuclear energy is so safe ,how come they havnt learnt how to dispose of the waste yet.


If I remember correct, it was the insurance for transporting it thru all the states to get it there.

That nobody would touch.

[beefsteak]

A breach the size of a pineapple is what I understood an "expert" on MSNBC just now at this late hour. #3 is the reactor being identified.

A FOX news' "expert" just said, Live, after the cutaway from a Japanese Official press conference just concluded and simultaneously translated on FOX: "this thing is getting closer to Chernobyl and that is truly frightening"...exact quote.

[Antonio]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?_r=1
Japan Raises Possibility of Breach in Reactor Vessel


Mr. Edano said the three injured workers at Reactor No. 3 had sustained radiation burns to their legs while dragging an electrical cable through contaminated water in an effort to restore the crucial pump. The workers were burned as contaminated water poured over the tops of their boots, soaking their feet and ankles, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported, citing sources with the Tokyo Electric Power Company, the plant’s operator.

PS. Have these people heard of duct tape?

[Neuro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?_r=1
Japan Raises Possibility of Breach in Reactor Vessel


Mr. Edano said the three injured workers at Reactor No. 3 had sustained radiation burns to their legs while dragging an electrical cable through contaminated water in an effort to restore the crucial pump. The workers were burned as contaminated water poured over the tops of their boots, soaking their feet and ankles, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported, citing sources with the Tokyo Electric Power Company, the plant’s operator.

PS. Have these people heard of duct tape?
Yes, or those high tech fisherman boots. They should start to make pyramids out of these reactors yesterday. Somehow Japan is lucky that it is such a stretched out country, some parts are a long distance away. Parts of Japan may be inhabitable in the future!

[Serpo]

Dr. Helen Caldicott - Japan Can
Dwarf Chernobyl Disaster
'One millionth of a gram of plutonium ingested
causes cancer.' Fukushima 3 is leaking plutonium
By Jan Lundberg
CultureChange.org
3-25-11


Alex Smith of Radio Ecoshock has just produced a definitive interview with Dr. Helen Caldicott, the world's foremost anti-nuclear activist and authority. Listen to it now at Ecoshock.net. Here are some notes I took from the broadcast:

· Smoke has been reported rising from the Fukushima unit number 3. If it's from fuel-cooling pools that contain plutonium, that's a major (to put it mildly) disaster.
· one millionth of a gram of plutonium ingested causes cancer.

· Geiger counter radiation levels have been reassuring for the West Coast of North America. But the real question for public health is "internal emitters" (e.g. Strontium attached to bone) -- that cause cancer and gene mutations -- versus external radiation measurements that cannot discern isotopes.

· Long lived isotopes versus quickly degrading ones: the big question for our gene pool.
· Fuel-cooling pools pose a far worse threat than reactors. In the U.S. the fuel pools are not backed up with cooling systems!

· A large part of Japan is damaged permanently.

· Random genetic engineering is being done for the rest of humanity's future.
· A peaceful Egypt-kind of revolution is needed against the nuclear psychosis.
· Caldicott commissioned a "Nuclear-free, carbon-free" study. She says "Renewable energy can supply all the energy America needs by 2040."

The last point reveals a weakness in the anti-nuclear movement as well as in the climate protection movement. When today's energy appetite is justified by cleaner energy -- as in an obese person's switching the source of calories instead of cutting way back on them and getting significant exercise -- little good can come of it. The "clean energy" vision has a lot of baggage, such as a petroleum infrastructure that is giving out.

A basic lack of understanding of energy plagues many intelligent people who haven't examined petroleum's attributes and role. There is no overall substitute possible for cheap petroleum and its many uses. Even more dangerous, the Holy Grail of abundant "clean energy" someday for a huge consumer economy's "needs" causes tragic delay in slashing energy use now. We must question the need for today's energy consumption by establishing much lower energy use -- lifestyle change -- that needs to happen so that mass curtailment and restructuring can begin now.

To begin to gear up to meet the 2040 goal that Dr. Caldicott called for is folly in that it is off-target, and ignores the realities of overpopulation. But because she is so right on some vital levels, she is able to make an uninformed statement such as the last one in the above list. I have met this wonderful activist, and we're in agreement with her new statement that the Japan crisis may be positive for sinking the nuclear industry and then even getting on to the task of dealing with the weapons problem.

Alex Smith produced and offered an important show on March 21 on the nuclear crisis, not released on Culture Change. To make up for this lapse, we asked him for his next report. He has responded with an excellent must-listen show, referenced above. His website is ecoshock.org. Here is the note he sent Culture Change on March 23:

Hi Jan
Here is a hot one to send out to your list: this morning I interviewed Dr. Helen Caldicott about the Japanese nuclear crisis. This may be the first long interview she's given, or at least that I've seen or heard. And she is on fire!

The second part of this week's program is Kathy McMahon, the Peak Oil shrink, on digesting really bad news, plus the nuke problems in New England. She's one smart lady.

Plus a bit of news straight from NHK World today, as four reactors burn in Japan, with all workers evacuated. Hardly any bottled water left in Tokyo, and nurseries can't find what they need to feed babies, now that the tap water is radioactive.

Radiation found in fields 40 kilometers north of Fukushima runs 5 cm. deep, and an expert expects it will last at least 30 years. A big part of Japan is lost to agriculture, if not to human habitation. Certainly the tens of thousands of nuclear refugees from Fukushima itself and neighboring villages are not going home. Not in their lifetimes.

Caldicott says this is the big one.








http://www.rense.com/general93/plut.htm

[Serpo]

if nuclear energy is so safe ,how come they havnt learnt how to dispose of the waste yet.


If I remember correct, it was the insurance for transporting it thru all the states to get it there.

That nobody would touch.


Ah well insurance companies ...no one would insure it and why would ya.
So we have a world wide disposal problem because insurance companies wouldnt insure. :ROFL:

[Serpo]

Oldest US nuclear reactor: a 'disaster' in waiting?
AFP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110324/sc_afp/japanquakeusnuclear

Oldest US nuclear reactor: a &#38;#39;disaster&#38;#39; in waiting? AFP/File – An aerial view of the Oyster Creek Generating Station, a nuclear power plant in Forked River, New Jersey …
by Karin Zeitvogel Karin Zeitvogel – Thu Mar 24, 3:52 pm ET

LACEY, New Jersey (AFP) – A sleepy New Jersey town has popped onto people's radar screens because it has the oldest running nuclear power plant in the United States -- and, some say, the most dangerous.

Named for a Revolutionary War general, Lacey is the kind of American town that few from outside the seaside settlement knew much about before the earthquake and tsunami in Japan triggered a nuclear crisis.

Down the road from the 1950s-style diner and across from the bridge that locals use as a fishing pier stands the Oyster Creek nuclear plant.

It uses a GE Mark I Boiling Water reactor identical to those that lost power at Japan's Fukushima plant in the March 11 earthquake and then was struck by a tsunami that knocked out its backup generators, causing reactor cooling functions to fail.

US anti-nuclear activists and many residents of Lacey and surrounding Jersey shore townships worry that a similar nuclear disaster could happen at Oyster Creek, and it wouldn't need an earthquake or tsunami to trigger it.

Oyster Creek has been dogged by problems including a corroding liner in the carbon steel containment unit; leaks that allow radioactive tritium to seep into drinking water; and huge volumes of stocked spent fuel rods.

"We have 40 years of radiation on site -- two-and-a-half to three times more than in Japan," anti-nuclear activist Jeff Brown told AFP.

"You also have that tremendously stupid design to start with where the spent fuel rods are sitting on top of the reactor," he said, raising a fear among residents that the reactor could be an easy target for a terrorist attack.

"At the very least, we need a no-fly zone over Oyster Creek. We have a no-fly zone over Disney World but not here," said Peggi Sturmfels, a program organizer at the New Jersey Environmental Federation.

Oyster Creek is owned and operated by Exelon Corporation, which employs 700 people at the plant. The company disputes the charges by activists, insisting the reactor is safe.

"Nuclear power stations in general are the most hardened and well-protected industrial facilities in existence. Oyster Creek is no exception," Exelon spokesman Craig Nesbitt told AFP.

Half a million people live within what would be the evacuation zone if Oyster Creek were ever to have a radiation accident. In the summer, the population swells with beach-goers heading to the Jersey shore.

The town is 85 miles (137 kilometers) south of New York and 55 miles (88 kilometers) east of Philadelphia.

New Jersey is not in a seismically active zone but meteorologists say the coastal state is long overdue for a Category Five hurricane.

"One good storm surge, and Oyster Creek's backup generators are swamped. It's Japan all over again," Sturmfels said.

Nesbitt rejects such assessments, saying the plant is five miles (eight kilometers) off the Atlantic coast, protected by barrier islands, and 23 feet (seven meters) above sea level, far higher than the largest recorded storm tide of seven feet, in 1962.

He also said Oyster Creek "is constantly evaluated and improved," and that more than $1 billion has been spent on plant upgrades since operations began in 1969.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission extended Oyster Creek's license for another 20 years in 2009.

The NRC not only gives out nuclear licenses but is the industry safety watchdog. That's a conflict of interest, say critics who liken the situation to the regulation of the oil industry prior to last year's devastating Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

Under pressure from state officials, Oyster Creek's license was rolled back to 10 years, and the plant is now due to close for good in 2019.

Even that's too late, say some residents.

"I don't like it. They should close it sooner," retiree Barbara Murrofsky told AFP as she shopped at a local hardware store.

"What's happening in Japan has made us more aware of the problems we have in our own backyard," she said. "There are so many people who live near here that an accident would be a major disaster. They should shut it down now."

But another local, Rick Gifford, looked philosophically at Oyster Creek.

"It's been running for 40 years with no problem, there's no reason it should start having problems now," he said.

Greg Auriemma, a lawyer for the Sierra Club environmental group, said Gifford's stance was not unusual in Lacey.

"There's a sense of complacency because while the plant has had a lot of negative publicity, no major disaster has occurred. So people look at it and say, 'It's been running for 40 years, what's the big deal?'"

But, Auriemma said, as Japan showed, one tragic event can dramatically change the situation. "There's a potential disaster that could happen right here in our backyard," he told AFP.

Last week, President Barack Obama ordered a "comprehensive review" of US nuclear safety and vowed to learn lessons from Japan's atomic accident.

The NRC on Wednesday launched its review of the nation's 24 US reactors, saying a full report and recommendations will be published in six months.

A federal court hearing a case brought in 2009 by environmental groups against the NRC on Monday asked the nuclear watchdog to advise if Japan's unfolding crisis impacted "the propriety" of renewing Oyster Creek's license.

On the same day, the NRC extended for 20 years the license of another Mark 1 reactor, in the state of Vermont.

The Vermont Yankee reactor has had tritium leaks, a cooling tower collapse and even a fire in the plant's transformer.

[Spectrism]

This thing was already worse than Chernobyl a week ago. Now they are saying it is getting close???

I already said this... Japan is toast. Anyone telling people to stay there is sending them to death. The rats... I mean banksters... know better than the people. They skipped country on the first flight out.

Not only that, but the morons saying this will not affect north America are plain out lying or stupid. This disaster has the potential to poison the Pacific Ocean and cause cancer rates in America to skyrocket. This is worse than the Gulf Oil disaster. The radioactive particles of plutonium and uranium will not be eaten by microbes over time. People will be breaking out with sores and various ugly symptoms.

They are completely UNABLE to fix this. Further attempts are just delaying the solution. Every hour they waste releases more radioactive particulate into the air and water. They need to seal it up with concrete. They need to build a mountain over this site.

[gunDriller]

if nuclear energy is so safe ,how come they havnt learnt how to dispose of the waste yet.


If I remember correct, it was the insurance for transporting it thru all the states to get it there.

That nobody would touch.


Ah well insurance companies ...no one would insure it and why would ya.
So we have a world wide disposal problem because insurance companies wouldnt insure. :ROFL:


i never said nuclear energy was safe, recently.

but, since you bring it up, i will say it - nuclear energy is safe - when it's done by adults - and if no idiots can gain access to it. so that might rule out the entire planet. i thought the nuclear plants in Finland and France are safe, but i haven't studied Europe's geology.

also Finland has to contend with Russia's nuclear dump, which is in the very northwest part of Russia, and somehow is closer to Norway than Finland.

BUT if we look at the Japan plants - objections were raised by engineers in 1972.

and i guarantee - engineers & geologists did raise the question, "Gee, maybe we ought not to build this thing so close to the ocean, in an earthquake-prone region." but accounts, managers, and Talmud-worshippers in the nuclear regulatory agencies ran the show.


as far as the issue of insurance companies, it raises the issue of pseudo-democracy, as in the US, vs. state control, as in China, where the government just says, "we're doing it this way".

you could write a book on this subject.

meanwhile, back on Earth, the Japan nuclear disaster looks like it will be upgraded to "7" status within 2 weeks.

i never knew Japan was 5000 miles away from California. i thought the Pacific Ocean was bigger than that.

[Buddha]

Japan Quietly Evacuating a Wider Radius From Reactors

TOKYO — Japanese officials began quietly encouraging people to evacuate a larger swath of territory around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant on Friday, a sign that they hold little hope that the crippled facility will soon be brought under control.

The authorities said they would now assist people who want to leave the area from 12 to 19 miles outside the crippled plant and said they were now encouraging “voluntary evacuation” from the area. Those people had been advised March 15 to remain indoors, while those within a 12-mile radius of the plant had been ordered to evacuate.

The United States has recommended that its citizens stay at least 50 miles away from the plant.

Speaking to a national audience at a news conference Friday night to mark the two weeks since the magnitude 9.0 quake and the devastating tsunami that followed it, Prime Minister Naoto Kan dodged a reporter’s question about whether the government was ordering a full evacuation, saying officials were simply following the recommendation of the Japan Nuclear Safety Commission.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?src=mv

[Horn]

Ah well insurance companies ...no one would insure it and why would ya.
So we have a world wide disposal problem because insurance companies wouldnt insure. :ROFL:


Or it would end up costing the electric companies too much to insure the transport it all the way to Nevada.

When living in Vegas, I remember the some states requested that they build a new interstate roads just for the transport (away from population centers) and got it.

Once one state got a road, all the others of course requested the same thing.

[Cobalt]

Ah well insurance companies ...no one would insure it and why would ya.
So we have a world wide disposal problem because insurance companies wouldnt insure. :ROFL:


Or it would end up costing the electric companies too much to insure the transport it all the way to Nevada.

When living in Vegas, I remember the some states requested that they build a new interstate roads just for the transport (away from population centers) and got it.

Once one state got a road, all the others of course requested the same thing.




Actually the government insures the Nuke industry.
Back in 1957 the Nuke industry discovered that it could only purchase a max of 60 million dollars and knowing that was not enough in the event of a major accident the government step in with the Price-Anderson act, they put a cap on the amount the the companies were responsible for.
Company responsibility for 2011 figures is about 12.6 billion and anything above that the government picks up the tab.

[Horn]

Actually the government insures the Nuke industry.
Back in 1957 the Nuke industry discovered that it could only purchase a max of 60 million dollars and knowing that was not enough in the event of a major accident the government step in with the Price-Anderson act, they put a cap on the amount the the companies were responsible for.
Company responsibility for 2011 figures is about 12.6 billion and anything above that the government picks up the tab.



The Price Anderson Act was originally enacted in 1957 as an amendment to the Atomic Energy Act to establish a system of financial protection for persons who may be liable for a nuclear accident or incident and for persons who may be injured.

Initially, the Act covered only commercial nuclear power plants and related facilities and activities operated under license to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. ''In 1988, the Act was re-authorized with amendments that brought nuclear activities of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and DOE contractors under the liability coverage provided by Price Anderson.

In 2002, Congress renewed the provisions of the Price-Anderson Act that protect DOE contractors at government facilities in case of an accident. Provisions related to insurance for commercial nuclear power plants were not extended.

Good site here regarding it.

http://www.yuccamountain.org/price_anderson_act.htm

[Cobalt]

Actually the government insures the Nuke industry.
Back in 1957 the Nuke industry discovered that it could only purchase a max of 60 million dollars and knowing that was not enough in the event of a major accident the government step in with the Price-Anderson act, they put a cap on the amount the the companies were responsible for.
Company responsibility for 2011 figures is about 12.6 billion and anything above that the government picks up the tab.



The Price Anderson Act was originally enacted in 1957 as an amendment to the Atomic Energy Act to establish a system of financial protection for persons who may be liable for a nuclear accident or incident and for persons who may be injured.

Initially, the Act covered only commercial nuclear power plants and related facilities and activities operated under license to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. ''In 1988, the Act was re-authorized with amendments that brought nuclear activities of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and DOE contractors under the liability coverage provided by Price Anderson.

In 2002, Congress renewed the provisions of the Price-Anderson Act that protect DOE contractors at government facilities in case of an accident. Provisions related to insurance for commercial nuclear power plants were not extended.

Good site here regarding it.

http://www.yuccamountain.org/price_anderson_act.htm


Seems to be a discrepancy of who or what is covered.
From the link you provided I found the study done for Eureka County March 2003

In a nuclear incident or precautionary evacuation, the PAA covers the liability of any person who may be liable for damages. It provides for a pool of money to compensate those who have suffered damages. The Act defines "person" broadly, to include every possible individual or entity other than the Department of Energy (DOE) and Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) themselves.

[Horn]

Seems to be a discrepancy of who or what is covered.

Right, so as our .gov has been so good at lately, is sweeping larger more complicated issues under the rug.

[keehah]

LA Times: Lack of data from Japan distresses nuclear experts (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-secrecy-20110325,0,3610246.story)

[March 24, 2011]
How did Japanese workers at the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant jury-rig fire hoses to cool damaged reactors? Is contaminated water from waste pools overflowing into the Pacific Ocean? Exactly who is the national incident commander?

The answers to these and many other questions are unclear to U.S. nuclear scientists and policy experts, who say the quality and quantity of information coming out of Japan has left gaping holes in their understanding of the disaster nearly two weeks after it began.

At the same time, they say, the depth of the crisis has clearly been growing, judging by releases of radioactivity that by some measures have reached half the level of those released in the Chernobyl accident of 1986, according to new analysis by European and American scientists.

The lack of information has led to growing frustration with Tokyo Electric Power Co., known as Tepco, and the Japanese government, which has parceled out information with little context, few details and giant blind spots. It has left the international community confused about what is happening and what could come next.

"Information sharing has not been in the culture of Tepco or the Japanese government," said Najmedin Meshkati, a USC engineering professor who has advised federal agencies on nuclear safety issues. "This issue is larger than one utility and one country. It is an international crisis."

Almost every step of the way, the problems at the Fukushima Daiichi plant have been understated by those in charge in Japan, outside experts say, leaving observers scrambling to analyze the situation as best they can from afar.

The public health concern is growing with news that the radiation has spread, leading to advisories on food and water. An Austrian meteorological institute, the Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics, said this week that computer models showed the emissions of radioactive cesium from the plant might already amount to 50% of what was released from Chernobyl, and that releases of radioactive iodine could be 20% of the Chernobyl total.

Edwin Lyman, a physicist with the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington, said Thursday that his own modeling of the data had confirmed the Austrian analysis, suggesting that Japan might ultimately have to exclude humans from a large area and face a remediation effort more costly than thought.

"Confusion seems to be growing," Lyman said....

[Large Sarge]

this thing is going to get really ugly IMO

they diddled around way to long (whether it was intentional or not, I am unsure)

but they should have flown in tonnes of boron, and cemented and sealed all those things long ago, write it all off.....

[gunDriller]

i was thinking of starting a poll, "how many weeks till they designate it Level 7".

i think within 2 weeks. sounds like it's Level 7 now.

actually, i think that Japan has been quite a bit more honest & forthcoming than Russia was with Chernobyl. not completely sure.

[DMac]

I've been wondering the past couple days if the reason they haven't entombed this thing yet is to see just how bad it truly gets. Perhaps they need it to degrade to a certain level in the ground before they can begin to pour the concrete?

[Olmstein]

So now maybe reactor 3 has a breach? That's the one with the plutonium, right?


Reactor Core May Be Breached at Damaged Fukushima Plant

Japan’s nuclear regulator said one reactor core at the quake-damaged Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plant may be cracked and leaking radiation.

“It’s very possible that there has been some kind of leak at the No. 3 reactor,” Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman at the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said in Tokyo today. While radioactive water at the unit most likely escaped from the reactor core, it also could have originated from spent fuel pools stored atop the reactor, he said.

Repair work at the site of the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl has been plagued by explosions, fires and leaks of toxic material. Prime Minister Naoto Kan told a press conference that efforts to bring the reactor under control haven’t yet reached a stage where the government can let down its guard.

“Even if there has been encouraging news such as getting some power back to the site, the installation remains in an extremely precarious and very serious situation that has not yet been stabilized,” Thomas Houdre, head of reactors at France’s nuclear safety agency, told reporters in Paris.

Workers using fire engines have streamed 4,000 tons of water on the No. 3 reactor, five times more than any of the other five units, according to the government.
Radiation Burns

Two plant workers were hospitalized yesterday with radiation burns after stepping in the water, which was found to have radiation levels 10,000 times higher than water used in reactor cooling, Nishiyama said earlier today.

Tokyo Electric Power Co., the plant operator, said it found eight different radioactive materials in the water of the turbine building basement, where the men were attempting to connect a power cable. The materials are made through a process of fission, and include cobalt and molybdenum-99, a spokesman for the power utility said.

More at Link. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-22/nuclear-plant-s-fuel-rods-damaged-leaking-into-sea-tokyo-electric-says.html)

[Olmstein]

Seems like they are trying to determine if the radioactive water came from the reactor vessel.


Fukushima: Sick Workers and Cracked Vessels. What's true?

Each day at the stricken Fukushima power plant seems to bring a new piece of troubling news—today, reports surfaced that three workers at the Fukushima plant had been hospitalized after radiation levels reported at the plant spiked to "10,000 times above normal." There were also reports that the No. 3 reactor vessel had been damaged, which if true would result in a serious leak of radiation at the only reactor at the site that contains the especially-toxic MOX fuel.

But like so much at Fukushima, reliable information is difficult to come by (more on that later). So consider this a summary of what we know for sure.

• According to the IAEA, the three hospitalized workers were laying cable for the Unit 3 reactor when radioactivity was discovered on their feet and legs. An IAEA release states that the workers "were washed in the attempt to remove radioactivity, but since there was a possibility of Beta-ray burning of the skin, [the workers] were taken to the Fukushima University Hospital for examination and then transferred to Japan's National Institute of Radiological Sciences for further examination. They are expected to be monitored for around four days. It is thought that the workers ignored their dosimeters' alarm believing it to be to be false and continued working with their feet in contaminated water."

• Press reports suggested that the hospitalized workers had been exposed to doses 10,000 times above normal. But the only reliable information on the dosage received by the workers comes from a TEPCO press release, which states that the trio suffered radiation exposure between 170 millisieverts and 180 millisieverts. That is not nearly enough to burn the skin or cause any symptoms of radiation poisoning, and it's well below "10,000 times above normal."

• The discrepancy is likely the result of confusion over what type of radiation the workers received, says Dr. Barry Rosenstein, a professor of radiation oncology at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York. The 170-180 millisievert figure probably refers to the full-body "gamma' radiation--probably from cesium-137 or iodine-131. Gamma rays can penetrate the skin and cause damage to internal organs. But beta particles—another source of radioactive decay—don't typically penetrate far into the body (for the scientifically minded, this is because they are charged electrons that have a mass and so are more easily stopped by atoms in the skin rather than the photons of gamma radiation). "It's possible that an individual can receive very high dosage [from beta rays] to the skin and the internal organs will not be irradiated," Rosenstein says.

• A dose of beta rays greater than 2,000 millisievert can damage the skin much the same way as ultraviolet radiation from the sun can cause a sunburn. And it's likely it is this dosage that reports of "10,000 times greater than normal radiation level" refers to, although again no firm figures have been released. In any case, burns from beta rays, like sun burns, usually clear up without any complications, Dr Rosenstein says. At Chernobyl, some emergency workers died from extensive burns, although reports of the burns to the Fukushima workers suggest the injuries are not nearly as serious.

• The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists reported that the three hospitalized workers were the first radiation-exposure injuries at Fukushima, contradicting earlier reports suggesting some workers showed symptoms of radiation sickness. The IAEA seemed to confirm this, stating that the number of workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant found to have received more than 100 millisieverts of radiation dose totaled 17 including the three contract workers. Again, 100 millisieverts is not nearly a high enough dosage to cause acute radiation sickness--that requires a dose of at least 1,000 milliesierverts. However, it does exceed the recommended safety level for nuclear power plant workers, which is normally set at 50 millisieverts. The daily limit for the emergency workers has now been set to 250 millisieverts. Such a dose will not make the workers ill, but it may increase their chance of developing cancer by a little less than 1%.

• In a related development, Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director-general of the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said at a news conference that a reactor vessel of the No. 3 unit may have been damaged. That raises the possibility that radiation from the MOX fuel in the reactor — a combination of uranium and plutonium — could be released. The three workers who suffered skin burns were working on the No. 3 reactor, which is one of the clues that the vessel may have been damaged. (However, their burns could also have come from radioactive seepage from vents or valves.) It's simply not known if the No. 3 reactor vessel has been compromised.

• MOX fuel is more dangerous than normal uranium fuel because it contains plutonium, which heats up more than uranium and can thus cause hot spots during a "loss of coolant incident" (see this earlier post by Jeffrey Kluger). Plutonium also makes control rods and boron less effective in slowing down a nuclear reaction--two crucial elements in the emergency shut-down of a reactor during a "criticality incident." It also releases more harmful radiation than pure uranium fuel in the case of a meltdown. For these reasons, nuclear safety campaigners in Japan succeeded in limiting the amount of plutonium in Japan's MOX to 6 percent (In France, by comparison, plutonium makes up 30 percent of MOX fuel). That certainly seems like a good thing now.

• Is the crisis at Fukushima over? Some experts believe that the main challenge now will be the hugely expensive clean-up operation of contaminated land, water and agriculture in the surrounding area. Such a clean-up can be done, but it's hugely expensive, and government officials may decide to abandon certain swathes of the surrounding area instead. But other experts say the crisis remains serious, and could escalate, especially given the unpredictability of the build-up of salt from the use of seawater as a coolant. And as an indication that the crisis remains serious, the Japanese government said it would now assist people who want to leave the area from 12 to 19 miles outside the crippled plant and said they were now encouraging “voluntary evacuation” from the area. Although it's possible that the move was the result not of safety concerns but of the fact that those within 12-19 miles had been ordered to remain indoors, making them virtual prisoners.

• Many outside experts have begun openly criticizing both TEPCO and the Japenese government for the lack of transparency and reliable information about the Fukushima crisis. It's an admittedly frenzied and difficult time for TEPCO and Japanese nuclear safety officials, but it's also difficult to disagree with the sentiment of Najmedin Meshkati, a USC engineering professor who has advised U.S. agencies on nuclear safety issues; he told the LA Times, "Information sharing has not been in the culture of Tepco or the Japanese government. This issue is larger than one utility and one country. It is an international crisis."

Link. (http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/03/25/fukushima-sick-workers-and-cracked-vessels-whats-true/)

[Olmstein]

Looks like all that seawater may have done more harm than good.


Fukushima: The Salt Problem

It's worth remembering, as the battle to prevent a massive radioactive release at the Fukushima power plant approaches the end of its second week, what a best-case scenario might now look like. In the best-case, emergency crews will restore cooling to the reactor cores and spent fuel pools and thus prevent the further release of radiation. What will then follow is a hugely expensive clean-up operation of the surrounding area and an (even more) expensive decommissioning of the plant itself. Decommissioning of nuclear power plants, even ones that haven't suffered serious accidents, is an eerie business; the plant is gutted until all that remains is an abandoned, radioactive hulk that is locked up for hundreds of years before it can be dismantled. That, at this point, would be a dream outcome at Fukushima.

Before then, emergency crews face a number of obstacles that many experts believe will take weeks to resolve. Workers must drain radioactive water that has come into contact with damaged reactor cores and they must find a safe way to release radioactive gas. As they do so, they face multiple problems, including one that has only recently come to the attention of outside experts: the build-up of salt in the reactors.

The salt, which has accumulated from the seawater that emergency crews have used as a last-ditch method to cool the reactors, might cause the reactors to overheat and possibly even meltdown. As seawater evaporates, salt scaling could insulate the reactor fuel and impede heat transfer and thus cooling. In a worst case, as the rods heat up, their zirconium cladding could rupture, and gaseous radioactive iodine inside could leak out; the uranium core itself could even melt. This, of course, would release event more radioactive material.

The New York Times, citing a former engineer with General Electric, which designed the reactors at Fukushima, estimates that 57,000 pounds of salt have accumulated in Reactor No. 1 and 99,000 pounds in Reactors No. 2 and 3. But those reactors are larger. And Shan Nair, a British nuclear safety expert who was part of a panel that advised the European Commission on its response to the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, told Ecocentric that it's very difficult to know the danger posed by salt accumulation without more information. "Simply the amount of salt is not the only factor. The salt will melt, some of it will be burned off in vapor. Determining the safe level is like the sort of question you'd ask a PhD student applying for a job in the nuclear industry. Without more information, however, I can already tell you, roughly, it would take a hell of a lot of salt to cause a problem. I'm not concerned about it."

More at Link. (http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/03/24/fukushima-the-salt-problem/)

[Antonio]

i was thinking of starting a poll, "how many weeks till they designate it Level 7".

i think within 2 weeks. sounds like it's Level 7 now.

actually, i think that Japan has been quite a bit more honest & forthcoming than Russia was with Chernobyl. not completely sure.


Russia had 650000 people working on the cleanup. Do you see the same thing happening in Japan? Yes, they both have to lie in order to avoid panic. It`s hard to tell potential millions of people they are walking dead and expect cooperation. What bothers me the most is not the Jap lies but the apparant lack of any plans to deal with this horror.

[Large Sarge]

i was thinking of starting a poll, "how many weeks till they designate it Level 7".

i think within 2 weeks. sounds like it's Level 7 now.

actually, i think that Japan has been quite a bit more honest & forthcoming than Russia was with Chernobyl. not completely sure.


Russia had 650000 people working on the cleanup. Do you see the same thing happening in Japan? Yes, they both have to lie in order to avoid panic. It`s hard to tell potential millions of people they are walking dead and expect cooperation. What bothers me the most is not the Jap lies but the apparant lack of any plans to deal with this horror.


I tend to agree with antonio here,

but in accepting that premise, and looking at this "boondoggle" of a rescue attempt on 6 reactors, well I guess I am forced to swallow the bitter pill that this is like the pacific radioactive version of the gulf oil disaster.... in short anyone with a "right answer" on how to safely and quickly solve this, will never get any air time (or get killed like Matt Simmons)...

the japanese people are getting poisoned like the gulf residents

[Horn]

I tend to agree with antonio here,

but in accepting that premise, and looking at this "boondoggle" of a rescue attempt on 6 reactors, well I guess I am forced to swallow the bitter pill that this is like the pacific radioactive version of the gulf oil disaster.... in short anyone with a "right answer" on how to safely and quickly solve this, will never get any air time (or get killed like Matt Simmons)...

the japanese people are getting poisoned like the gulf residents


It is a bitter pill, and when you take it you start wondering just how powerful that HAARP gun is too.

Almost want to push that one out of your head.

[Large Sarge]

I tend to agree with antonio here,

but in accepting that premise, and looking at this "boondoggle" of a rescue attempt on 6 reactors, well I guess I am forced to swallow the bitter pill that this is like the pacific radioactive version of the gulf oil disaster.... in short anyone with a "right answer" on how to safely and quickly solve this, will never get any air time (or get killed like Matt Simmons)...

the japanese people are getting poisoned like the gulf residents


It is a bitter pill, and when you take it you start wondering just how powerful that HAARP gun is too.

Almost want to push that one out of your head.


I think it could have been an underwater nuke, like the indian ocean one, Joe Vialls did some good work on that

[Serpo]

The vid calls this Liquifaction but I have seen liquifaction first hand in Christchurch,NZ, and it is nothing like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRCM8oJ2DlY

[Large Sarge]

I tend to agree with antonio here,

but in accepting that premise, and looking at this "boondoggle" of a rescue attempt on 6 reactors, well I guess I am forced to swallow the bitter pill that this is like the pacific radioactive version of the gulf oil disaster.... in short anyone with a "right answer" on how to safely and quickly solve this, will never get any air time (or get killed like Matt Simmons)...

the japanese people are getting poisoned like the gulf residents


It is a bitter pill, and when you take it you start wondering just how powerful that HAARP gun is too.

Almost want to push that one out of your head.


I think it could have been an underwater nuke, like the indian ocean one, Joe Vialls did some good work on that




they have all but erased joe vialls off the web,

gave him thallium I believe, his kidneys shutdown

found an old thread with some of his info

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message446477/pg1

[Antonio]

Russian alternative media is all over Joe Vialls, they say reading him is a must. I have to find time to do this, I know his name of course but not much about what he says. Russia is the biggest country in the world with over half of the planet`s resources and Chernobyl almost bankrupted us and certainly was the trigger point of USSR collapse, people were shell-shocked by it and this confusion was used to pull the carpet from underneath us.
I wonder what the Jap thing will be used for, it can become the ultimate human psychological wound if it gets out of control.

[Horn]

they have all but erased joe vialls off the web,

gave him thallium I believe, his kidneys shutdown

found an old thread with some of his info

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message446477/pg1


First Spectro was telling me there is enough plutonium to destroy the planet.

Now this?

I need a blue pill weekend... :-\

[Serpo]

Do you start by carting away the Chokai Maru, the 150-foot (45-meter) ship that was lifted over a pier and slammed into a house in this port town? Do you start with the thousands of destroyed cars scattered like discarded toys in the city of Sendai? With the broken windows and the doorless refrigerators and the endless remnants of so many lives that clutter the canals? In the first days after a tsunami slammed into Japan's northeast coast on March 11, killing well over 10,000 people, it seemed callous to worry about the cleanup. The filth paled beside the tragedy. Now, nearly two weeks later, hundreds of communities are finally turning to the monumental task ahead.

The mess looks endless in Japan, and hauling it away seems unimaginable. The cost? No one really knows, though the crisis is emerging as the world's most expensive natural disaster on record, with Japanese officials saying losses could total up to 25 trillion yen ($309 billion). The World Bank says reconstruction could take five years.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=frr7hABEx3s#at=60http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/88375.php

http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/88375.php

[beefsteak]

Serpo,
that's what the placer mining mining business calls liquifaction also...most hobbyists are more familiar with the term, "slurry." I'm puzzled by what you are referring to in Christchurch action that looks different than fluidized movements of solids, mainly because I didn't follow that CC event like I see I should have.

NZ just seems so very far away. But then, so did Japan----until that Lo & Slo radiation event we're now experiencing.

Looking forward to your reply and learning more about the CC event to which you refer

beefsteak

[Serpo]

Well the liquifaction in Christchurch(CHCH) came up out of the ground and was deposited above ground.It was a talcum powder fine gray sand looking material (after it had dried)that would choke you if a mask wasnt worn.Maybe there are different types.

CHCH is full of it in the damaged areas and most of CHCH is fine ,its only damaged in a certain area of the city.

In this Japanese clip nothing came out of the ground ect.

Different here though and this looks more like it......here

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20110325-270180.html

[gunDriller]

Do you start by carting away the Chokai Maru, the 150-foot (45-meter) ship that was lifted over a pier and slammed into a house in this port town? Do you start with the thousands of destroyed cars scattered like discarded toys in the city of Sendai? With the broken windows and the doorless refrigerators and the endless remnants of so many lives that clutter the canals? In the first days after a tsunami slammed into Japan's northeast coast on March 11, killing well over 10,000 people, it seemed callous to worry about the cleanup. The filth paled beside the tragedy. Now, nearly two weeks later, hundreds of communities are finally turning to the monumental task ahead.

The mess looks endless in Japan, and hauling it away seems unimaginable. The cost? No one really knows, though the crisis is emerging as the world's most expensive natural disaster on record, with Japanese officials saying losses could total up to 25 trillion yen ($309 billion). The World Bank says reconstruction could take five years.

if it was a normal tsunami disaster, the clean-up would be messy but straightforward. you just start, you have project managers, etc.

BUT ... it seems likely that the nuclear disaster will grow and spread.

i think they need to write off an area - a large area - and plan NOT to re-build it. 100 miles around the nuclear reactors, something like that, maybe 200 miles.

then start the clean-up outside of that perimeter, and make salvage trips into the nuclear zone to recover what can be recovered - until it's too late. and then that radiation area just becomes like the area around Chernobyl - it returns to a sort-of-wild state. i hear that the Chernobyl radiation area has wild animals including tigers, like a wierd post-apocalyptic zoo.

[beefsteak]

Okay, I hear you better, Serpo.

Yes, we're both talking about the same thing. In the gold pan, all the junk goes in, and by creating fluidity within the body of solids--courtesy of the water in the pan--(or it can be fluidized/liquified by moving air in the case of drywashing)--the lights come to the top (aka the sand) and the heavies sink to the bottom of the liquifaction/slurry/fluidized zone.

Gold being 19x heavier than water, settles to the lowest liquifaction strata, and the sand is rinsed off over the edge.

Does this help. That was an amazing photo to see the beehive shape of displaced manholes...one doesn't typically think of manholes moving higher and out of the liquified 'zone.'

Thanks for that link!

[beefsteak]

You make excellent points, gundriller.

Since it is an island, and only 20% inhabitable due to mountain terrain BEFORE the dual tragedy...whenever they get around to designating the "not here" zone they've got to put that debris somewhere. I expect gigantic fires, car crushers, and all kinds of innovative engineered solutions. I am hoping against hope wrt gigantic fires, due to the amount of volatized radiation released during such a heating event of exposed/irradiated debris. I guess we'll see.

[Serpo]

Okay, I hear you better, Serpo.

Yes, we're both talking about the same thing. In the gold pan, all the junk goes in, and by creating fluidity within the body of solids--courtesy of the water in the pan--(or it can be fluidized/liquified by moving air in the case of drywashing)--the lights come to the top (aka the sand) and the heavies sink to the bottom of the liquifaction/slurry/fluidized zone.

Gold being 19x heavier than water, settles to the lowest liquifaction strata, and the sand is rinsed off over the edge.

Does this help. That was an amazing photo to see the beehive shape of displaced manholes...one doesn't typically think of manholes moving higher and out of the liquified 'zone.'

Thanks for that link!




I guess it is all liquifaction but in various forms.

But what about this................

[beefsteak]

Hey, Serpo!

To begin understanding THAT one, one needs to be conversant with what is called Particle Physics. In other words, slurry density (elements comprising what is involved in liquifaction.) Slurry density takes into account the weight of the liquid, in this case polluted water, the VELOCITY of water (push volume), and the weight/density of the item being "floated to the top" in such an event. Obviously that massive bus was snagged in some fashion by the immovable object below, thus the amazing photo you posted.

The only way I would call that a "liquifaction event" would be if the bus was buried first, and then the liquifaction of the surrounding solids by the presence of water, would "float the 'lighter bus' particle" to the surface of the slurry, based upon the bus' comparative density.

And there is a Corey Factor at work here as well, as the bus' flatness in relationship to the slurry density, particle density and water velocity would have the bus skipping along near the surface of the tidal wave much like a flat stone will skip on a pond's surface.

Here's some "science talk" about how slurry density is calculated if you are interested. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/slurry-density-d_1188.html (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/slurry-density-d_1188.html)

This is an interesting discussion especially as it relates to not just the tidal wave after the reactor damaging earthquake. As mentioned earlier, air is a "liquid as well" and the distribution of various particles, plutonium, uranium, depleted uranium, zircon coating, cesium, etc. etc., are also being distributed by "slurry density" sorting/liquifaction process. Only instead of water, pulsing releases in liquid air using wind push velocity is occurring. I was visiting with a scientist buddy of mine and he reminded me that while there is a lot of talk about ionized radiation distribution, there is also solid PARTICLE dispersal and distribution in the "liquified air currents." That is what is so very troubling to him, me and others about the exploded "spent fuel pools' contents" in the various compromised containment structures at Fukushima.

This liquifaction thing is kinda getting them AND the rest of us, both coming and going, yes?

[StackerKen]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22750.0;attach=677 3;image



I guess it is all liquifaction but in various forms.

But what about this................




What an awesome photo...The power of nature and the water are incredible!

[Olmstein]

So, it's already tomorrow in Japan, and things keep getting better and better.

From the L.A. Times: (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-20110326,0,2408816.story)


Japan urges residents near nuclear plant to leave

New information suggests one of the reactors at the Fukushima complex may have been breached, although some U.S. experts say some data contradict that.


Japan's government urges residents within 18 miles of the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant to leave their homes, as new information suggests that the core of reactor No. 3 may have been breached.

Japan's government Friday urged residents within 18 miles of the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant to leave their homes, as new information suggested that the core of reactor No. 3 may have been breached.

Although people living within 12 miles of the plant were evacuated early in the crisis, those between 12 and 18 miles had been told it was safe to remain as long as they stayed indoors. Authorities have suggested they might expand the mandatory evacuation zone.

"It has become increasingly difficult for goods to arrive, and life has become harder," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a news conference Friday. He called on local governments near the plant to encourage people to leave.

It was not immediately clear how many people remained within 18 miles of the facility, and Edano's comments sowed confusion among residents and local officials. With more than 200,000 victims of the March 11 earthquake and tsunami in emergency shelters, many of them elderly, evacuations of thousands more could further strain resources.

Prime Minister Naoto Kan addressed the nation Friday evening, urging victims to "summon the courage to keep moving forward" and pledging the "utmost" effort to rebuild the country.

Under pointed questioning from reporters, Kan said the situation at the Fukushima plant remained "grave and serious."

"We are not in a position where we can be optimistic," Kan said. "We must treat every development with the utmost care."

Dressed in the blue jumpsuit that has become a trademark of the disaster, Kan apologized to farmers and business owners around the plant for the radioactive contamination and sought to rebut criticism that his government had failed to relay clear and timely information about the situation to the Japanese public and foreign governments.

The U.S. government has advised keeping 50 miles away from the nuclear plant, raising questions among some Japanese about whether officials here have played down the danger. Foreign recommendations on some other issues, such as the safety of tap water in Tokyo, have also been tougher.

"Each country has unique standards," Kan said.

His remarks came after Japanese nuclear safety officials said they suspected a breach in the core of reactor No. 3, which contains highly carcinogenic plutonium.

Their suspicion stems from measurements of radiation in water that contaminated two workers Thursday — levels that were 10,000 times what would be expected inside an operating reactor. That could indicate there was damage to the core and a leak in the containment vessel, the agency acknowledged Friday.

"The source of the radiation seems to be the reactor core," said Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency official Hidehiko Nishiyama. It is "more likely" that the radiation was from the core than from the spent-fuel pool, he said.

U.S. nuclear experts said information from Japanese officials about reactor No. 3 was inconclusive — pipes, valves or fittings, rather than the containment vessel, could be leaking, they said.

David Lochbaum, a commercial reactor expert at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said pressure readings inside the reactor cast doubt on the idea that the reactor vessel had been breached

"It's contradictory data," he said.

Edwin Lyman, a physicist with the scientists group, said the amount of radioactive iodine released so far indicated "limited damage" to the fuel.

But if the reactor core was breached by uranium fuel that melted through the bottom of the vessel, it would create the potential for vastly greater releases of radioactive iodine and cesium.

Separately, the U.S. Energy Department on Friday released radioactivity measurements from around the plant that show a decline from the levels of two days ago.

The data indicate that a hot spot in the range of 13 to 25 miles from the plant that recorded 12.5 millirem per hour on March 19 had dropped to no more than 2.17 millirem per hour. Even the lower levels, however, are about 31 times the average background dose Americans receive annually.

Japan has been cooling the reactors and spent-fuel pools with seawater, which American officials warn could cause equipment to seize up and corrode, complicating the task of stabilizing the reactors.

Japanese officials said the U.S. was dispatching a vessel from the Yokosuka naval base with fresh water for the site.

The death toll from the March 11 quake and tsunami rose to 10,102, with 17,053 missing, the National Police Agency said.

[Santa]

Thanks everyone... for keeping this thread alive. It has been so informative and important.

[beefsteak]

Agreed, Santa!

Plume Tracking/Radiation dispersal map in the following link as of Friday late evening, a full 2 weeks after this status quo shattering earthquake.

http://www.zamg.ac.at/display.php?imgPath=/pict/aktuell/20110325_Reanalyse-I131-Bild5_gr.jpg&imgTitle=Radioaktivit%26auml%3Bt+von+Fukushima+15+ Tage+nach+Beginn+des+Unfalles+%28Prognose%29&imgSource=%26copy%3B+ZAMG&imgWidth=842&imgHeight=596

The above is thanks to ZeroHedge.

Fascinating one of the most reliable sources is through a WELL-connected big money analyst/trader/commentator. Tyler Durden cuts through the political BS and just hangs it out there for the grownups among us to draw our own conclusions.

[beefsteak]

Zero posted this 3-D image--dataset sourced from NOAA or so the caption seems to associate. Screen Capture of Zero:

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af84/beefsteak_GIM/3DGeigerCounterReads3252011.jpg
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/googleearth-based-3d-map-real-time-radioactivity-distribution-japan
http://community.pachube.com/node/611#3d


This 4+ img gallery appears to be courtesy of a gee-whiz Google Earth map, focused on Geiger Counter Readings in Japan only, and graphically represented in 3-D fashion. To view more of similar 3-D imagery, a Google Earth Ap needs to be downloaded.

http://community.pachube.com/node/611#3d

[beefsteak]

USA cover-up from 1959---in multiple parts.

459x radiation release of 3Mile Island some 20yrs hence? San Fernando Valley+ "Close brush with disaster just outside of L.A....."




2009 Review of 1959 Nuke Meltdown Event

August 24, 2009
50 Years After America’s Worst Nuclear Meltdown

Human error helped worsen a nuclear meltdown just outside Los Angeles, and now human inertia has stymied the radioactive cleanup for half a century.

By Joan Trossman Bien and Michael Collins

For Release Saturday A.M., August 29, 1959
CANOGA PARK, CA

“During an inspection of fuel elements on July 26 at the Sodium Reactor Experiment, operated for the Atomic Energy Commission at Santa Susana, California by Atomics International, a division of North American Aviation, Inc., a parted fuel element was observed.

The fuel element damage is not an indication of unsafe reactor conditions. No release of radioactive materials to the plant or its environs occurred and operating personnel were not exposed to harmful conditions…

In each case, all seven tubes of the fuel element remained in the core. This fuel loading, nearing the end of its useful life, was scheduled to be removed in the near future.”

This press release — issued five weeks after the end of the United States’ worst nuclear reactor meltdown — was the public’s first notification that something unusual had happened up on “The Hill.” For the next 20 years, it remained the only public notification about the accident at the Santa Susana Field Laboratory on a mountaintop in California’s eastern Ventura County, on the border with the San Fernando Valley.

In fact, from July 12 through July 26, 1959, an unknown amount of radioactive gases were intentionally vented to prevent the Sodium Reactor Experiment from overheating and exploding.

Unlike most conventional reactors that circulate water to be heated by the fuel rods in the core in order to turn steam turbines, the SRE used sodium because it could operate under lower pressure. Pure sodium — not to be confused with table salt, or sodium chloride — was a risky metal to use since it catches fire when exposed to air and explodes when mixed with water.

Due to the experimental nature of the SRE, it was built without a containment structure — the distinctive large dome associated with nuclear power plants — so any radiation vented hot out over the San Fernando Valley, which the city of Los Angeles was busily annexing. What exactly vented remains in contention.

“We know there was a fuel meltdown,” said William Taylor, the current spokesman for the U.S. Department of Energy. “We don’t know how much [radiation] or if any was released.”

According to an analysis of a five-year study by a panel of independent scientists convened years after the incident, the SRE accident spit out up to 459 times the amount of radiation released during the 1979 meltdown at Three Mile Island.

Fifty years later, the contaminated site has yet to be cleaned up, although this month two federal agencies promised to plow ahead without the site’s current owner, Boeing. And in March, the Department of Energy provided $38.3 million in funds to complete the radiologic survey of “Area IV” as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Unlike the then-remote hilltop it once was, now more than a half million people live within 10 miles of The Hill, and downtown Los Angeles is 30 miles away.

The Race to Conquer the Atom
The Santa Susana Field Laboratory was built on 2,850 acres in the mid-1940s. A portion of the facility was dedicated to nuclear research, while other portions were marked to develop powerful rocket engines such as the Delta II. The federal Atomic Energy Commission and the private Atomics International chose the land high in the hills above the farthest end of the west San Fernando Valley precisely because the work could be dangerous and the population sparse.

The site was owned by Atomics International, a division of North American Aviation. It was merged into Rocketdyne, which Boeing acquired when it bought Rockwell International in 1996. Four years ago, United Technologies bought the Rocketdyne unit from Boeing, but Boeing kept the contaminated site.

Santa Susana hosted other sensitive projects, which in turn left their own more-public toxic legacies. Three other main areas of the lab were devoted to rocket testing, which polluted the land and groundwater with the toxic rocket fuel oxidizer perchlorate and the engine solvent trichloroethylene. Perchlorate has been found in water wells circling the site, including in adjacent Simi Valley.

There are varying estimates of the amount of TCE in Rocketdyne’s groundwater from tens of thousands of rocket tests at the lab. Boeing’s groundwater remediation system, which consists of “air-stripping” towers that allow the TCE to evaporate into the open air, removed 10 gallons of the toxic goo from the water annually.

“Since acquiring our site in 1996, Boeing has made significant progress in our cleanup efforts,” Boeing spokesperson Kamara Sams said recently, although the company turned off the water-purifying system in 2001.

Meanwhile, the SRE was but one of 10 nuclear reactors at the site, plus a “hot lab” to cut apart and work on nuclear fuel for Santa Susana, Department of Energy and the Atomic Energy Commission facilities from around the country. The site also hosted a plutonium fabrication fuel facility which Dan Hirsch, president of the nonprofit anti-nuclear group the Committee to Bridge the Gap, called “perhaps the most dangerous facility they had on the property.”

Hirsch, who has been a key figure in investigating and publicizing the 1959 nuclear accident, said there also had been serious accidents in at least three of the other SSFL reactors, plus “numerous nuclear fires and spills and releases.”

And there were other dangerous practices on the site. “They had a sodium burn pit where they took radioactively contaminated components and illegally burned them in open pits in the open air,” Hirsch said.

Additionally, workers routinely disposed of barrels of highly toxic waste by blowing them up with shotguns and releasing the contents into the air. That practice was halted in 1994 when two workers were killed and one severely injured when the procedure went terribly wrong. One worker was blasted so forcefully into a rock that all that remained was a gruesome petroglyph.

[beefsteak]

PART 2:


Summer of ’59: Two long, hot weeks
John Pace had only been at the SSFL for four months 50 years ago this summer when the accident occurred. He was hired as a 20-year-old trainee to learn how to become an atomic reactor operator and mechanic in March 1959 (he was let go the following November). Due to his inexperience, Pace said he often was just an observer of many procedures at that time.

He is now the last surviving worker to have witnessed the 1959 meltdown and its immediate aftermath — an often chaotic attempt to prevent an even larger disaster as workers compromised their own safety to keep the SRE from overheating into a runaway meltdown.

They were only partially successful. Unknown to the workers, the coolant Tetralin had leaked into the sodium and gummed up the SRE, causing the fuel rods to overheat. When the reactor was finally shut down permanently after two weeks of starting and stopping the power and then venting the building radiation, one third of the fuel rods ruptured and had begun melting.

Pace said he arrived at work on July 13 for the shift immediately after the accident; he was told that the operators had noticed that something was not quite right. “They had little indications before that there was something a little edgy about the reactor, but they weren’t quite sure,” he said.

Hirsch said the accident actually began on July 12. “Radiation readings were very high,” he said. “They had a power excursion [an out-of-control nuclear reaction] on July 13 and barely were able to shut the reactor down, spent a couple of hours trying to figure out what happened and couldn’t figure out what happened and started it up again, and inexplicably ran it until July 26. The radiation monitors went off scale. They were too hot to measure.”

Pace recalled that part of his job was to check which way the wind was blowing at the SSFL weather station. “A few hours after it happened, I found out that the reactor had run away from them and they had to release the gases. After leaking the gases, they discovered that the winds were headed toward the San Fernando Valley. All of our families lived [there] and all that radiation went over their homes.”

A 2006 report by David A. Lochbaum, the nuclear safety engineer with the Union of Concerned Scientists, determined that up to 30 percent of the reactor’s radioiodine and cesium could have vaporized during the accident.

After the reactor was shut down two weeks later, Pace said the workers started cleaning up the immediate contamination so that they could reach the fuel rods and see what had happened. “We scrubbed it down with water and sponges,” Pace said. “We tried mops. They’d get contaminated real quick and that was getting pretty expensive, so we ended up using Kotex.”

All this was done without protective clothing beyond coveralls and cotton caps that read, “Your Safety is Our Business — Atomics International.” There were no fully-enclosed radiation suits with face masks that nuclear workers routinely use today, designed to be dissolved and disposed of after one use.

“This had never happened before,” Pace said, “so it was a learning experience of how to clean up contamination.”

As the workers removed the fuel rods, one broke off. The worker accidentally dropped the broken rod back into the reactor. “He realized what had happened and panicked,” Pace said. “All he could think of doing is run. And as he was running, he was pulling alarms and ran out of the building and got outside.”

Pace said the situation deteriorated from there. “Now you have the rod up out of the shield. They were realizing radiation was leaking out into the atmosphere. There was one more fuel rod in there. They pulled it out and it broke off and hit the reactor floor. Now you have two broken off in the reactor. I could tell from the looks on their faces something was wrong.”

Looking back with the benefit of 50 years experience, Pace realized that many mistakes were made. Experts, also with the benefit of hindsight, agreed.

[beefsteak]

Part Three:


In 1979 the Los Angeles Times reported that an Atomic Energy Commission-sponsored analysis determined there had been numerous indications that the SRE was malfunctioning. The report was critical that the operators continued to run the reactor for two weeks — and despite a power spike that didn’t abate even after operators pushed control rods into the reactor to slow the nuclear reaction.

“They never should have done what they had done at the time,” Pace said. “The reactor should have been closed down, but they did it anyway. You didn’t want to lose your job. If the reactor is gone, nobody’s got work.”

The end of 20 years of silence
None of what John Pace described was ever revealed publicly. Atomics International prepared an unclassified report — it was titled “SRE Fuel Element Damage” — on the accident and delivered it to the Atomic Energy Commission in 1961.

One of several findings in the report read, “In spite of the cladding failure to 13 fuel elements and the release to the primary coolant of several thousands of curies of fission product activity, no radiological hazard was presented to the reactor environs. Recovery operations were conducted by SRE operating crews, working within standard AEC regulations on radiation exposure.”

Two decades later, the 1979 accident and radiation release at Pennsylvania’s Three Mile Island nuclear power plant focused public attention on the dangers accompanying nuclear power. In that environment, a UCLA student named Michael Rose, now a successful documentarian, was researching his first film when an old flyer in the Westwood office of Committee to Bridge the Gap caught his attention.

“The flyer had a little blurb about a meltdown at Atomics International,” Rose said. “I knew I had to find out more about this. Of course, I was given the cold shoulder by Atomics International but discovered that documents relating to that company were on file at all Atomic Energy Commission repositories around the country. As luck would have it, UCLA was one of those repositories. One of the first documents that I discovered was the press release announcing the meltdown at the Sodium Reactor Experiment.”

Rose worked with Hirsch and informed, or re-informed, the media. Hirsch and Rose took their discovery to Warren Olney, then of KNBC NewsCenter 4 in Los Angeles (he now hosts the National Public Radio news program To the Point). Olney produced a weeklong television series on the meltdown.

“There was a flurry of activity for a couple of years,” Hirsch said. “A group called Alliance for Survival then intervened in the re-licensing of the Atomics International facility, getting a reduction in licensed amounts of nuclear material but no shutdown.” Despite the activity, progress toward a cleanup was slow.

“Then things went quiescent,” he continued, “until the Department of Energy study in 1989 finding widespread contamination at the site was made public in the Los Angeles Daily News, triggering a new round of interventions in licensing proceedings, which did succeed in shutting [the reactor] down.” Hirsch said the study also sparked several other epidemiological studies.

Urban sprawl added pressure. Over time, Southern California’s population grew dramatically, and what primarily had been walnut orchards and sprawling ranches encasing Santa Susana became suburban tracts filled with families.

Once the widespread nature of contamination was known, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was brought in to aid in the cleanup. One focus of concern was the level of contamination in the actual power plant buildings.

“The EPA demanded that they be able to inspect the buildings themselves before they were torn down to make sure they had been cleaned up,” Hirsch said. “When the EPA arrived on the appointed day, three of the five buildings they were supposed to study had been already torn down, including the SRE. And some of the debris from those buildings was taken to regular municipal trash facilities. Radioactive metals went to a metal recycler and got melted into metal products.”

The official health studies
In the early 1990s, local legislators established the Santa Susana Field Laboratory Advisory Panel, a quasi-governmental organization composed of academics and activists who studied worker health issues resulting from the overall contamination issues at Santa Susana. The panel, co-chaired by Hirsch, enlisted the UCLA School of Public Health to conduct the study.

“They found that the workers had increased death rates from key cancers like lung cancer, cancers of the lymph and blood systems, than did workers at the same facility that had lower exposure to the radiation,” Hirsch said. “That then led our panel to study the offsite population. We needed to know the wind data. And Boeing (now the owner of the site) refused to release it. So we had to draw more general conclusions.”

Those conclusions were released in October 2006 and they were stunning. Based on the ratios of volative radionuclides found in the coolant, the panel estimated that the release of radiation in 1959 was hundreds of times the amount of radiation that was released at Three Mile Island — and that radiation was estimated to have caused between 300-1,800 cancer deaths.

Bonnie Klea of the San Fernando Valley suburb of West Hills worked at SSFL from 1963 to 1971. She has survived a 1995 episode of bladder cancer, which she is convinced was caused by the contamination that lingers on the site. “I have uranium in my body that is seven times the normal,” she said. “The bladder cancer in the workers is abnormally high. Every single house in my neighborhood had a cancer death.”

“After the study came out,” Hirsch said, “members of the state Legislature became upset that the [wind] data had been suppressed, intervened with the Department of Energy and Boeing, and when the data were discovered to actually exist, they demanded that it be handed over. But by that time, our funding was over.”

Meanwhile, more than 600 former SSFL workers had applied for compensation for their illnesses they attributed to working at the lab, but aside from a few dozen, most claims were denied because proof of exposure was required. As Sen. Dianne Feinstein said on the floor of the Senate in March, “Some records show only estimated levels of exposure for workers, and are imprecise. In other cases, if records were kept, they cannot be found today.”

Feinstein and Sen. Barbara Boxer, both California Democrats, and Rep. Elton Gallegly, a House Republican, this year introduced legislation to compensate SSFL workers or their families for workplace illnesses not covered by earlier laws covering so-called “energy employees.” The legislation, which is still in committee in both houses, would allow those workers whose claims have been rejected to reapply for compensation.

The big clean: target deadline 2017
Despite all this, the site remains toxic, radioactive and dangerous, and will continue to be so until the cleanup is completed. And it’s still a workplace for scientists and technicians: Although the go-go years of the Cold War are gone, when three shifts of 6,000 people each were working on the site, fewer than 200 remain today doing laser research and other defense industry work.

After lawsuits, several studies and attempts to force Boeing to clean the site, California state Sen. Sheila Kuehl introduced legislation that mandated that the site be cleaned to the highest standard before any other use of the land would be permitted. In addition to the radiation contamination, the bill includes the perchlorate and other dangerous chemicals that were spewed out during the rocket engine testing and other pursuits. Boeing opposed the bill, but Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed it into law in early 2008 and a final date for completion of the cleanup was slated for 2017.

[beefsteak]

Part Four (final)


Norman Riley, who works for the state EPA’s Department of Toxic Substances Control and was in charge of the cleanup until Aug. 19, said the project is riddled with potential difficulties. “This is roughly 3,000 acres of extremely complicated geology, highly fractured bedrock on top of a mountain in an arid environment.”

The area is prone to brushfires, such as the 2005 Topanga Canyon Fire, which swept through the contaminated site. “Fire will change the chemical composition, it will alter chemically on constituents that are at or near the surface, and it would add to the constituents,” Riley said. “Dioxins, for example, are a common combustion product.”

He doesn’t consider size, complexity and potential natural disasters to be “insurmountable,” but said political issues may be. “Being able to hit 2017 means being able to adhere to a schedule that is already pretty tight. One has to begin with a characterization of the site, which we expect to be finished in 2012.”

(Riley was replaced on the project by 25-year DTSC veteran Rick Brausch, best known previously as the agency’s policy and legislative director.)

Taylor at the DOE is doubtful that the original target dates can be met. “I don’t know if 2017 still is in play since we are going to wait … to get the results of the survey.”

But that doesn’t mean nothing is happening, he insisted. The DOE has been monitoring the site regularly, he said. “The impression that nothing has been done is not exactly correct. There’s been an environmental report every year.”

Then there is the ongoing unprecedented financial crisis devouring California. “The state’s financial situation has already affected [the schedule],” Riley said. “People that work for me and myself are furloughed three days a month. That means no one is reviewing the data; no one is inspecting activities that are going on at the site.”

However, the real delay may be just around the corner. “The entities responsible for meeting the standards [of the SSFL cleanup law] have resisted those standards, which they consider to be unreasonable,” Riley said, referring apparently to Boeing. “I think that the standards are unnecessarily restrictive. We certainly will enforce the law because that is our job. But here’s a fact: When this clean up is done, this is going to be the cleanest land in Southern California.”

The standards mandated by Kuehl’s legislation dictate that there be no more than one chance in a million of getting cancer from any radionuclide in a rural agricultural setting, which has the most restrictive limits. In comparison, the damaged reactor at Three Mile Island, though defueled and decontaminated to a large degree, remains closed as the radiation continues to decay.

Taylor said that although there is a possibility of a walk-away clause, where the EPA decides to just fence off the site as was done at Three Mile Island, that alternative is not acceptable to the DOE. “We considered taking down the remaining structures. Basically, people are nervous about that.”

“The public gave us, DOE, the indication to wait for the EPA surveys so we’re not going to fight that. In any scenario, those buildings are still going to come down.”

Taylor said the federal government accepts the stringent standards, and on Aug. 19 both the DOE and NASA (which along with Boeing were deemed the “responsible parties” for funding the cleanup) agreed to proceed on the cleanup – without Boeing.

“We’re pleased that the federal agencies (NASA and DOE) have committed to moving forward on a draft cleanup order that covers a significant portion of contamination (90% RAD and 50% other chemicals) in strict compliance with [the Kuehl legislation],” the acting director of the Department of Toxic Substances Control, Maziar Movassaghi, wrote on Aug. 19.

“Unfortunately we are not yet at a public review stage with Boeing as to their cleanup responsibilities, so we have decided to move forward with the responsible federal agency portion of the cleanup. We’re hopeful that the Boeing discussions will be similarly successful and have assigned project management to the executive level of the Department to lead those negotiations.”

Riley said before he was removed that Boeing is not yet on board with the existing cleanup standards. “If we are not able to reach an agreement with them, then there will be litigation. If is going to file a claim concerning constitutionality of the measure, it would have to get started soon. Boeing is not a company without means. They have some very good lawyers.”

Asked if Boeing indeed plans to initiate litigation, its spokeswoman Sams replied, “We are optimistic that a consensual agreement can be reached that allows us to proceed with an effective cleanup in a timely manner. Boeing will legally restrict future land use of our site to open space.”

Taylor, meanwhile, acknowledged that the DOE has created some of its own problems by moving forward without consulting the public.

“I know things have been done in the past that probably have not taken into consideration the people’s concerns around there, and we are doing our best to rectify that by working with the Department of Toxic Substances Control and working with EPA now. I appreciate these people who have followed this for 30 years, and I understand their frustration — but maybe some things aren’t as bad as they seem.”

[b]The future of nuclear energy
As the Obama administration is developing a strategy for the nation’s energy needs, including a nuclear component, there are many environmentalists who see the struggle to clean up the SSFL as an object lesson.

“You know the old saying, ‘Those who cannot remember the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them,” Hirsch said. “People today are not remembering what happened the last time we went deeply into nuclear power. We had meltdowns and horrible accidents that we are spending billions of dollars unsuccessfully trying to clean up.”

Proponents of a nuclear revival say it is part of the answer to reduce the nation’s carbon output. But Hirsch sees that path as a large step backwards. “It’s a tragedy because this could be the point where we really solve the global warming problem.”

The Nuclear Regulatory Agency has received applications from 14 companies to build new nuclear power plants. Financial problems in the form of cost overruns, delays and other problems had forced utilities to abandon earlier plans to build more nuclear power plants in the 1990s. The issue of terrorism has not yet been fully addressed. The federal government is anxious to solve the intractable problem of the disposal of nuclear waste. Today, most of the operating reactors simply have their spent fuel rods sitting temporarily but indefinitely in holding tanks. The U.S. still has no permanent facility for all of the country’s spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste.

Whether the SSFL will finally be cleaned up within the negotiated schedule remains an open question. Fifty years have passed since that first press release told the world about a close brush with disaster just outside Los Angeles. Today, radiation remains on and off the premises, outliving a generation of workers.
link: http://www.miller-mccune.com/science-environment/50-years-after-nuclear-meltdown-3510/

=============
USA who itself lives in a Nucleated Glass House shouldn't throw stones now?

[keehah]

Amazing how quickly radiation was forgotten in SoCal. A few decades later they had houses all around full of families dying from cancer without a clue. Its like people WANT to forget about danger when things go critical. I guess that's how civilization wide denial works.

Hollywood Reporter: The Simpsons’ Nuclear Jokes Edited in Germany (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/simpsons-nuclear-jokes-edited-germany-171415)

3/25/2011
In light of the Japan crisis, episodes of the show that joke about nuclear meltdowns are also being pulled in Austria and Switzerland.

German Television has put a moratorium on meltdowns in The Simpsons.

Reacting to the real-life nuclear disaster unfolding in Japan, Pro7, the channel that airs The Simpsons in Germany, will be screening current and future episodes of the show and remove or replace any that feature a disaster at Mr. Burns' nuclear power plant. Berlin's Tagesspiegel newspaper reports that networks in Austria and Switzerland have followed suit.

Austria's ORF has already pulled two episodes set to broadcast: Episode 66, Marge Gets a Job, which features scientists Marie Curie and Pierre Curie dying of radiation poisoning; and Episode 346, On a Clear Day I Can't See My Sister, in which characters joke about a nuclear meltdown. Tagesspeigel says ORF has held back eight Simpsons episodes until the end of April, when it will review its Springfield disaster policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqwS0Ew77WE

[Neuro]

Amazing how quickly radiation was forgotten in SoCal. A few decades later they had houses all around full of families dying from cancer without a clue. Its like people WANT to forget about danger when things go critical. I guess that's how civilization wide denial works.

Hollywood Reporter: The Simpsons’ Nuclear Jokes Edited in Germany (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/simpsons-nuclear-jokes-edited-germany-171415)

3/25/2011
In light of the Japan crisis, episodes of the show that joke about nuclear meltdowns are also being pulled in Austria and Switzerland.

German Television has put a moratorium on meltdowns in The Simpsons.

Reacting to the real-life nuclear disaster unfolding in Japan, Pro7, the channel that airs The Simpsons in Germany, will be screening current and future episodes of the show and remove or replace any that feature a disaster at Mr. Burns' nuclear power plant. Berlin's Tagesspiegel newspaper reports that networks in Austria and Switzerland have followed suit.

Austria's ORF has already pulled two episodes set to broadcast: Episode 66, Marge Gets a Job, which features scientists Marie Curie and Pierre Curie dying of radiation poisoning; and Episode 346, On a Clear Day I Can't See My Sister, in which characters joke about a nuclear meltdown. Tagesspeigel says ORF has held back eight Simpsons episodes until the end of April, when it will review its Springfield disaster policy.
Well you have to protect the children against jokes about nuclear disasters, especially at times when children can't be protected against nuclear disasters... Those reactors should have been entombed a week ago, no it wouldn't have stopped the meltdown or a large area from being uninhabitable, but it would have limited the disaster by a magnitude, can they even entomb it now?

[beefsteak]

Keehah,
Yes it IS amazing. I certainly wasn't aware until your post of the "residential build-up in that area!!!" WOW!


What's even more amazing is to me, alive 'n kickin' in 1959, I don't remember hearing a thing about this Cali. SRE 1959 disaster. Couldn't be solely due geographic zenophobia, i.e., "aware nor apprised of this disaster outside of Cali." Couldn't be because the MSM was lax and controlled waaaaay back then, right? :sarc:

Couple controlled media in 1959 with "BEFORE the internet info dissemination/connectivity age" interwoven into the fabric of our current lives, and the ignorance until last night's find/article posted above comes into sharp relief.

[beefsteak]

Neuro,

I asked my engineering / science buddy the very same question ystdy. My concerns stemmed from the absolute "drenched in some spots" seawater additions to structures not designed to internally deal with seawater perspective.

I was assured, unequivocally assured, YES, it can still be entombed, even at this late date!! The height of the structures which contained the spent fuel pools now also melting down or blasted to smithereens--you pick--make the premise of "pumping concrete" at that height and with those pumps now on site too slow according to him. I was definitely left with the impression that human applicators of such concretization was definitely "cannon fodder" in attempting this enormous entombment, inspite of "operationally remote controlled" chattered assurances. This disaster just keeps serving up more human toll, yes?

What WAS made known to me which I had not considered before our enlightening discussion is the DAMAGE of the salt in the sea water which has been liberally applied shall we say. All the news media will say is to speak to the corrosion of seawater being applied. In my mind at least, images were conjured up exacerbating pipe and valve assembly decay mental pictures. According to him, what we are NOT being told is the following chemistry reality:

The amount of salt water applied has ALREADY built up massive salt encrustation, on everything it has been applied to, thus passivating any "cooling water benefit" being currently visually paraded on TV via those enormous Chinese long boom cranes' "applicators." In otherwords, this crane business is for show and buying of time by Fukushima nuke engineers as they try to figure out how in thunder they're going to do the entombing. So, the water is not doing any amount of good especially after this length of time as far as "cooling" is concerned.

As my buddy put it, "Chernobyl had no outer containment structure to speak of. This fact alone, made the addition of concrete for entombment much easier to effect at C."

So, more smoke and mirrors, buying of time, and the appearances of doing something is being daily paraded not just for us. After talking with him, I can now see this is a show put on for the Japanese people as the frantic paddling of ducks below the surface churns and burns. And the rest of the world, as well. Especially as being constantly feed by controlled MSM through various "western" outlets, both here and abroad.

As he wryly noted: "concrete isn't all that is going to have to be done. Fukushima is built at the water's edge." :o

As someone stated earlier, this is getting uglier and uglier the longer this drags on. I personally was just totally sickened to learn about the MASSIVE salt buildup passivating the "mitigating water" now added to the disastrous vignette playing out before uninformed public view.

[Neuro]

Yes they need to make a containment wall also, maybe a mile in radius, really deep down in the ground. At least the Soviet Authorities, during the Chernobyl accident, made an effort to entomb it quickly, and they didn't say anything of what had happened, and Soviet Union was already then in a state of collapse. What we get is lies after lies, how they are struggling for weeks to get electricity to run pumps... I think at the end of this we will see a disaster, that is a magnitude or 2, greater than Chernobyl, and much of this is directly caused by an ability to take decisive action.

[gunDriller]

Amazing how quickly radiation was forgotten in SoCal.


it was only forgotten because it was edited out of the public education & the MSM.

who controls the public education & the MSM ? the same people who control the nuclear industry.


moving on - i was thinking there will be some major pieces of un-used freeway -- nice smooth surfaces.

SKATEBOARD PARK !

[Serpo]

Fear and devastation on the road to Japan's nuclear disaster zone


Daniel Howden travels through a post-tsunami wasteland to the gates of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi power station


Saturday, 26 March 2011

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/fear-and-devastation-on-the-road-to-japans-nuclear-disaster-zone-2253509.html



Once this road was thronged with traffic: an expressway, one of the arteries of a nation's economic life, as familiar and modern a sight as you would find anywhere in Japan. The only barriers on the route to Fukushima Daiichi were the other people heading in the same direction.


Today the journey is different. It is a journey to the heart of a catastrophe. About 10 kilometres beyond the half-deserted city of Iwaki, the coastal road is blocked not by commuters but by landslides; the satellite navigation system that might once have flashed up traffic jams shows clusters of red circles that denote barred roads. And when we reach the inland expressway itself, the only vehicles disturbing the silence are the rumbling military trucks of Japan's Self Defence Force. Twenty kilometres out from the nuclear plant, abandoned road blocks mutely signal our entry into the nuclear exclusion zone.

It is a scene of devastation. Underneath us the road cuts across rice fields strewn with cars, their wreckages seemingly tossed by the hand of an angry child: in one paddy an upturned Nissan Micra; in another a Toyota people carrier filled to its sunroof with mud. The second storey of a nearby house perches on a single pillar, like a boxy flamingo. The ground floor has been erased, splinters of wood pointing the way the wall of water had gone.
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And yet after two weeks of minutely documented destruction, these scenes seem more familiar than eerie. The empty streets on the hillside of nearby Kumamachi, which escaped the tsunami, attest to a different kind of fear. Outside its abandoned houses a gentler tremor has shaken roof tiles to the floor and knocked over bicycles. But it feels as though the residents could return at any moment. Their doors are open.

The people here must have been able to hear the hydrogen explosions that rocked the power plant only three kilometres away. They can't have waited much longer to leave. No one will see the cherry blossom that's opening on the boughs of a tree in the school playground, or observe the custom to share a drink underneath it with friends. The children's umbrellas will stay in the rack outside their empty classroom.

Stray cats provide a flicker of movement as they wander in the newly emptied landscape. A few dogs have been left behind, one trailing its lead. In a village beneath one of the flyovers on Route 6, an elderly couple emerge from their car and run into a house. By the time we backtrack and climb down to find them they have gone.

Despite the hundreds of homes still standing they will be the only non-emergency workers we see. Their fleeting presence is a reminder of our own vulnerability, even inside a sealed car on a deliberately brief journey through the zone. We only venture outside the vehicle to remove heavy debris in our way. As we edge closer to our destination, we make our way over buckled tarmac where sand has been shovelled into yawning cracks and logs have been rolled into the broken steps carved by the earthquake.

The brooding presence of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is telegraphed by the crowds of transmission-tower pylons converging on their source. A stream of white vehicles manned by ghostly figures in protective overalls, all breathing through respirators, suggests no let-up in the fight against a meltdown.

Finally we are seeing people on our journey. When we wave one of the vehicles down, the driver removes his respirator long enough to say that yes, he is working on the emergency at the plant. But his speech is flecked with panic. He insists he cannot speak to journalists and hurries away.

But nobody stops us. And so we move closer. Tell-tale wisps of grey smoke rise above the tree cover to point the way. Japan's newest heroes, the "Samurai 50", flash past, almost invisible in their white body-suits and hoods aboard a white bus, going towards the reactors. Before long we, too, are at the main entrance of Fukushima No 1.

In the midst of an all-consuming havoc, it appears to be the only place that has escaped intact. Only a spotless white sign in the stone wall tells us we are at the centre of the crisis. Next to the Japanese characters that give the plant's name is the playful red logo of Tepco, the now notorious Tokyo power giant that finds itself in the eye of a nuclear storm.

We would learn later that Tepco has belatedly admitted that the pressure containment vessel at reactor No 3 "may" have been breached – the last step before molten fuel pours onto the concrete base of the reactor triggering a massive release of radioactive material. Three workers inside the plant have been taken to hospital with burns after wading into water contaminated by 10,000 times the expected dose of radiation.

The half-dozen reactors where small teams of engineers have been battling in shifts to prevent a meltdown are only a few hundred metres away. But even if the risks are manageable on a brief visit, there is no mistaking that we are close to disaster.

A Tepco vehicle comes in the other direction but stops abruptly on seeing a car from the outside world inside the stricken power plant. It reverses noisily towards us, and the driver's door opens to show two men inside wearing heavy-duty protective overalls. Unable to make themselves heard over respirators, they make the Japanese gesture meaning "forbidden", crossing and uncrossing their arms and then pointing back the way they had come. It was the closest thing to a security barrier that we encountered.

Our route away is just as unimpeded. But if the approach has been a powerful introduction to the destructive force of the tsunami, our journey towards Minamisoma, the nearest town to the ruined plant, does not offer a corresponding escape.

The town is trapped in what the government has called the "stay inside zone": a 10km-wide band not yet evacuated but too contaminated to go outside. As we escape the perimeter of the plant, the final stretch of Route 6 into Minamisoma breaks through the numbness. Remnants of boats and cars are scattered in unlikely poses for miles in all directions, while the pylons that flank the road have been twisted like the Spanish bearded trees of the bayou. Crows pick through the wreckage of a destroyed garden centre on the roadside.

The ghastly spell is broken by loudspeakers in the distance that are somehow still working. One of Japan's beloved town announcements echoes across the grey devastation, repeating the promise that petrol and kerosene rations will arrive that afternoon.

Picking our way through we find Haranomachi Tokusawa. An old man, he seems less terrified than others of the radiation and has taken his pickup down to the coastal stretch of Minamisoma to look for people lost in the maze of smashed junctions. "It's not safe for you here, you're still inside the exclusion zone," he warns, before leading us out to where everyone else is sheltering.

Only 20,000 of Minamisoma's population of 70,000 have stayed on here. In his office plastered with photographs of the aftermath, Sakurai Katsunobe, the town's lean and furious mayor, says residents have been left to fend for themselves. "Everyone here is angry with Tepco," he seethes. "They give us no information and no help."

Joking that he's a samurai, he vows to save his town with its crippled power plant, its poisoned rice paddies and terrified survivors. He is unlikely to get the chance. Late yesterday the government expanded the evacuation zone in response to the deepening emergency at Fukushima. Even the brave hangers-on will have to pack what they can and leave.

But until that order came, the few that remained were inhabitants of a kind of ghost world, removed entirely from the ordinary life they had once lived. Weighing that new reality in his office, Katsunobe stared at the images of devastation tacked to his wall. They were placed over the pictures that had decorated the room in more normal times. "We can't get supplies as drivers don't want to come here," he said. "We're like an island cut off from outside world.







Wild tsunami footage....


http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1416681/71a8dbc9/nieuwe_tsunami_footage.html

[nunaem]

Wild tsunami footage....


http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1416681/71a8dbc9/nieuwe_tsunami_footage.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfy1CoxrMo&feature=player_embedded#at=112

[Neuro]

Another thing that I was thinking, concrete mixed with sea salt doesn't harden very well as I understand. That may not make that much of a difference, since the entombments with concrete will probably be tens of meters thick, and it would only be the innermost layers that are subjected to the salt!

[Serpo]

*******

BERLIN – Germany is determined to show the world how abandoning nuclear energy can be done.

The world's fourth-largest economy stands alone among leading industrialized nations in its decision to stop using nuclear energy because of its inherent risks. It is betting billions on expanding the use of renewable energy to meet power demands instead.

The transition was supposed to happen slowly over the next 25 years, but is now being accelerated in the wake of Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant disaster, which Chancellor Angela Merkel has called a "catastrophe of apocalyptic dimensions."

Berlin's decision to take seven of its 17 reactors offline for three months for new safety checks has provided a glimpse into how Germany might wean itself from getting nearly a quarter of its power from atomic energy to none.

And experts say Germany's phase-out provides a good map that countries such as the United States, which use a similar amount of nuclear power, could follow. The German model would not work, however, in countries like France, which relies on nuclear energy for more than 70 percent of its power and has no intention of shifting.

"If we had the winds of Texas or the sun of California, the task here would be even easier," said Felix Matthes of Germany's renowned Institute for Applied Ecology. "Given the great potential in the U.S., it would be feasible there in the long run too, even though it would necessitate huge infrastructure investments."

Nuclear power has been very unpopular in Germany ever since radioactivity from the 1986 Chernobyl disaster drifted across the country. A center-left government a decade ago penned a plan to abandon the technology for good by 2021, but Merkel's government last year amended it to extend the plants' lifetime by an average of 12 years. That plan was put on hold after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami compromised nuclear power plants in Japan, and is being re-evaluated as the safety of all of Germany's nuclear reactors is being rechecked.

Germany currently gets 23 percent of its energy from nuclear power — about as much as the U.S. Its ambitious plan to shut down its reactors will require at least euro150 billion ($210 billion) investment in alternative energy sources, which experts say will likely lead to higher electricity prices.

Germany now gets 17 percent of its electricity from renewable energies, 13 percent from natural gas and more than 40 percent from coal. The Environment Ministry says in 10 years renewable energy will contribute 40 percent of the country's overall electricity production.

The government has been vague on a total price tag for the transition, but it said last year about euro20 billion ($28 billion) a year will be needed, acknowledging that euro75 billion ($107 billion) alone will be required through 2030 to install offshore wind farms.

The president of Germany's Renewable Energy Association, Dietmar Schuetz, said the government should create a more favorable regulatory environment to help in bringing forward some euro150 billion investment in alternative energy sources this decade by businesses and homeowners.

Last year, German investment in renewable energy topped euro26 billion ($37 billion) and secured 370,000 jobs, the government said.

After taking seven reactors off the grid last week, officials hinted the oldest of them may remain switched off for good, but assured consumers there are no worries about electricity shortages as the country is a net exporter.

"We can guarantee that the lights won't go off in Germany," Environment Ministry spokeswoman Christiane Schwarte said.

Most of the country's leaders now seem determined to swiftly abolish nuclear power, possibly by 2020, and several conservative politicians, including the chancellor, have made a complete U-turn on the issue.

Vice Chancellor Guido Westerwelle said Wednesday "we must learn from Japan" and check the safety of the country's reactors but also make sure viable alternatives are in place.

"It would be the wrong consequence if we turn off the safest atomic reactors in the world, and then buy electricity from less-safe reactors in foreign countries," he told the Passauer Neue Presse newspaper.

But Schuetz insists that "we can replace nuclear energy even before 2020 with renewable energies, producing affordable and ecologically sound electricity."

But someone will have to foot the bill.

"Consumers must be prepared for significantly higher electricity prices in the future," said Wolfgang Franz, head of the government's independent economic advisory body. Merkel last week also warned that tougher safety rules for the remaining nuclear power plants "would certainly mean that electricity gets more expensive."

The German utilities' BDEW lobby group said long-term price effects could not be determined until the government spells out its nuclear reduction plans. Matthes' institute says phasing out nuclear power by 2020 is feasible by better capacity management and investment that would only lead to a price increase of 0.5 cents per kilowatt-hour.

In Germany, the producers of renewable energy — be it solar panels on a homeowner's rooftop or a farm of wind mills — are paid above-market prices to make sure their investment breaks even, financed by a 3.5 cents per kilowatt-hour tax paid by all electricity customers.

For a typical German family of four who pay about euro1,000 ($1,420) a year to use about 4,500 kilowatt-hours, the tax amounts to euro157 ($223).

The tax produced euro8.2 billion ($11.7 billion) in Germany in 2010 and it is expected to top euro13.5 billion ($19.2 billion) this year. The program — which has been copied by other countries and several U.S. states such as California — is the backbone of the country's transition toward renewable energies.

"Our ideas work. Exiting the nuclear age would also be possible in a country like the U.S.," Schuetz said.

Another factor likely to drive up electricity prices is that relying on renewable energies requires a huge investment in the electricity grid to cope with more decentralized and less reliable sources of power. Economy Minister Rainer Bruederle just announced legislation to speed up grid construction but gave no cost estimate.

And even if non-nuclear power is more expensive, Germans seeing images daily of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear complex seem willing to pay the higher price.

Ralph Kampwirth, spokesman for Lichtblick AG, Germany's biggest utility offering electricity exclusively from renewable sources, said since the Fukushima disaster it has been getting nearly three times more new clients than normal, up from 300 to more than 800 per day, despite prices slightly above average.

Sticking with nuclear power would also have its costs and require public funds.

The only two new nuclear reactors currently under construction in Europe, in France and in Finland, both have been plagued by long delays and seen costs virtually doubling, to around euro4 billion ($5.7 billion) and euro5.3 billion ($7.5 billion) respectively.

The disposal of spent nuclear fuel is also a costly problem, but it has no set price tag in Germany because the government has failed to find a sustainable solution.

Many decades-old reactors are highly profitable as their initial cost has been written off, but they now face higher costs as regulators push for safety upgrades in the wake of the Fukushima disaster. One of the most pressing — and costly — requirements is likely to be a mandatory upgrade to reinforce all nuclear power plants' outer shell to withstand a crash of a commercial airliner.

Utility EnBW pulled the plug for good on one reactor temporarily shut down by the government because the new requirements made operating it "no longer economically viable."

But even if Germany abandons nuclear energy, some of Europe's 143 nuclear reactors will still sit right on its borders.

Since France and other nations are firmly committed to nuclear power, shutting down all reactors across Europe won't happen, but Merkel is now pushing for common safety standards. The topic will be discussed at the European Union summit in Brussels on Thursday and Friday.

Merkel said the 27-nation bloc, which has standardized "the size of apples or the shape of bananas," needs joint standards for nuclear power plants.

"Everybody in Europe would be equally affected by an accident at a nuclear power plant in Europe," Merkel said.


http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/environment/humans/nuclear_du_radiation/news.php?q=1301161018

[beefsteak]

Never thought I'd be typing this----> GOOOOoooo MERKEL!!!

Meanwhile back at the Fukushima "ranch....."



TEPCO Admits To Another Cover Up As Radioactivity In Seawater Near Fukushima Soars To 1,251 Above Legal Limit
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/26/2011 10:26 -0400

The latest news out of Fukushima confirms fears that irradiated water containment at the radioactive plant has been completely breached, after Radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,250.8 times the legal limit was detected Friday morning [3/25] in a seawater sample taken around 330 meters south of the plant, near the drainage outlets of the four troubled reactors, the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said Saturday.

As Kyodo updates: "The level rose to its highest so far in the survey begun this week, after remaining around levels about 100 times the legal limit. It is highly likely that radioactive water in the plant has found its way into the sea, TEPCO said. It's all good though: the government has a prepared strawman for this unprecedented surge in radioactivity as well.

"Radioactive materials ''will be significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species, the agency said, adding it would not have a significant impact on fishery products as fishing is not being conducted in the area within 20 kilometers of the plant because the government has issued a directive for residents in the zone to evacuate."

But none of this matter as we get the latest confirmation that no news coming out of the stricken plant can be trusted: "TEPCO's Fukushima office acknowledged Saturday that it had known earlier that the radiation in the underground level of the turbine building of one of the reactors was extremely high, but had not made the information available to pertinent parties."

From Reuters:


" Officials said iodine 131 levels in seawater 30 km (19 miles) from the coastal nuclear complex were within acceptable limits established by regulations and the contamination posed little risk to aquatic life. "Ocean currents will disperse radiation particles and so it will be very diluted by the time it gets consumed by fish and seaweed," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a senior official from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. Despite that reassurance, the disclosure may well heighten international concern over Japanese seafood exports. Several countries have already banned milk and produce from areas around the Fukushima Daiichi plant, while others have been monitoring Japanese seafood." So fear not - instead of having 10 fins, that yummy piece of toro you are injesting will sport only a substantially "diluted" 5. Also, expect to see Kan eating seaweed and sashimi, and washing it down with radioactive tap water on TV any minute to prove just how safe everything really is.

More from Kyodo:


The level rose to its highest so far in the survey begun this week, after remaining around levels about 100 times the legal limit. It is highly likely that radioactive water in the plant has found its way into the sea, TEPCO said.

Radioactive materials ''will be significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species, the agency said, adding it would not have a significant impact on fishery products as fishing is not being conducted in the area within 20 kilometers of the plant because the government has issued a directive for residents in the zone to evacuate.

TEPCO is planning to inject fresh water into pools storing the spent nuclear fuel at the plant to prevent crystallized salt from seawater already injected from hampering the smooth circulation of water and thus diminishing the cooling effect. It has begun injecting fresh water into the reactor containers of the No. 1 and No. 3 as well as No. 2 reactors.

At the same time, the company is trying to remove the pools of water containing highly concentrated radioactive substances that may have seeped from either the reactor cores or the spent fuel pools.

On Thursday, 3/24, three workers were exposed to water containing radioactive materials 10,000 times the normal level at the turbine building connected to the No. 3 reactor building.

On Friday, 3/25, a pool of water with a similarly high concentration of radioactive materials was found in the No. 1 reactor's turbine building, causing some restoration work to be suspended.

Similar pools of water were also found in the turbine buildings of the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, measuring up to 1 meter and 80 centimeters deep, respectively. Those near the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors were up to 40 cm and 1.5 meters deep, respectively.

And the most dramatic example of strategic idiocy: all the hoopla about dumping tons of water on the reactors will now have to be undone:

While analyzing the radioactivity levels of the pools from the water found in the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, TEPCO will remove the water in all four reactor units to reduce the risk of more workers being exposed to radioactive substances, it said.

The risk would hinder efforts to restore the plant's crippled cooling functions, which are crucial to overcoming the crisis, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

But the most infuriating development is the latest disclosure from TEPCO that once again it covered up critical data.

TEPCO's Fukushima office acknowledged Saturday, 3/26, that it had known earlier that the radiation in the underground level of the turbine building of one of the reactors was extremely high, but had not made the information available to pertinent parties.

Edano criticized the utility's handling of the data, saying unless it reports necessary information to authorities in a timely manner, ''the government will not be able to give appropriate instructions and (TEPCO) will make workers, and eventually the public, distrustful'' of the firm.

So aside from the constant lies and misinformation, the public can be assured that all is well.


http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tepco-admits-another-cover-radioactivity-seawater-near-fukushima-soars-1251-above-legal-limi

[Serpo]

Yes a lot of this contamination is going into the ocean.........

[beefsteak]

Are Hawaiian and USA west coast surfers, fishers, and beachcombers going to now be sporting Radeye B20s? No one will know b/c they look so much like GPS units and not Geiger counters, yes?


http://www.laurussystems.com/Images/RadEye_B-20_sm_2.jpg

[Cobalt]

Are Hawaiian and USA west coast surfers, fishers, and beachcombers going to now be sporting Radeye B20s? No one will know b/c they look so much like GPS units and not Geiger counters, yes?


http://www.laurussystems.com/Images/RadEye_B-20_sm_2.jpg


Hell NO

I want one of those big yellow civil defense things that make all kinds of clicks so people know what the fuck they being exposed too

[Neuro]

*******

BERLIN – Germany is determined to show the world how abandoning nuclear energy can be done.

Great one of the arguably safest and most engineer savvy countries of the world decides to get rid of nuclear power!

[Serpo]

Japan nuclear: Workers evacuated as radiation soars



The BBC's Mark Worthington said many people in Japan are becoming increasingly concerned about what is going to happen in the future
Continue reading the main story
Japan quake

Radioactivity in water at reactor 2 at the quake-damaged Fukushima nuclear plant has reached 10 million times the usual level, company officials say.

Workers trying to cool the reactor core to avoid a meltdown have been evacuated.

Earlier, Japan's nuclear agency said that levels of radioactive iodine in the sea near the plant had risen to 1,850 times the usual level.

The UN's nuclear agency has warned the crisis could go on for months.

It is believed the radiation at Fukushima is coming from one of the reactors, but a specific leak has not been identified.

Leaking water at reactor 2 has been measured at 1,000 millisieverts/hour - 10 million times higher than when the plant is operating normally.

"We are examining the cause of this, but no work is being done there because of the high level of radiation," said a spokesman for the plant's operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco).
Continue reading the main story
A child holds bottled water in Tokyo, Japan (24 March 2011)


"High levels of caesium and other substances are being detected, which usually should not be found in reactor water. There is a high possibility that fuel rods are being damaged," the spokesman added.

Tepco has been criticised for a lack of transparency and failing to provide information more promptly.

The nation's nuclear agency said the operator of the Fukushima plant had made a number of mistakes, including worker clothing.

Meanwhile, the Japanese government said that airbone radiation around the plant was decreasing.

The plant was damaged in the deadly 11 March earthquake and tsunami.

The death toll has now passed 10,000, and more than 17,440 people are missing.

The UN nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), has now sent extra teams to the Japanese nuclear plant.

The radiation found in the sea will no longer be a risk after eight days because of iodine's half-life, officials say.
Fresh water

Japanese government spokesman Yukio Edano said on Saturday that Tepco had to be more transparent in the wake of an incident this week in which three workers were exposed to radiation levels 10,000 times higher than normal, suffering burns.

"We strongly urge Tepco to provide information to the government more promptly," Mr Edano said.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (Nisa), said two injured workers were wearing boots that only came up to their ankles and afforded little protection.

"Regardless of whether there was an awareness of high radioactivity in the stagnant water, there were problems in the way work was conducted," Mr Nishiyama said.

He said Tepco also knew of high air radiation at one reactor several days before the incident at the Fukushima Daiichi plant 240km (150 miles) north of Tokyo.
Mourners in Yamamoto, 26 March Mass burials have been held, including here at Yamamoto

He said Tepco had been warned and measures to improve safety had been put in place.

He said that leakage from reactors had probably caused the high levels of radiation found in water at the Fukushima plant.

Emergency workers are continuing to cool the reactors in an effort to prevent a meltdown. They have now switched to using more favoured fresh water as a coolant, rather than sea water.

There had been fears the salt in sea water could further corrode machinery. The fresh water is being pumped in so that contaminated radioactive water can be extracted.

The team of more than 700 engineers has found radioactive water in three of the six reactors.

Four of the reactors are still considered volatile.

The US 7th Fleet is sending barges loaded with 500,000 gallons of fresh water.

Mr Edano said: "We seem to be keeping the situation from turning worse. But we still cannot be optimistic."
Iodine

Mr Amano told the New York Times that Japan was "still far from the end of the accident".

Although he saw some "positive signs", particularly the restoration of electric power, he said: "More efforts should be done to put an end to the accident."

His main fears were that the lack of coolant would mean spent fuel rods would remain exposed to the air, and then heat up, releasing radioactive material.

China, Singapore, Hong Kong and other Asian importers have banned some imports of vegetables, seafood and milk products for fear of contamination.

Australia, the European Union, the United States and Russia have followed suit.

Meanwhile in Japan's tsunami disaster zone, the military has helped supply food and water and has continued clearing areas to try to recover more bodies.

There has been a need for mass burials in some areas along the coast.

Hundreds of thousands of displaced people are still housed in temporary shelters such as gymnasiums.

The Japanese government has put the rebuilding cost at $309bn (£191.8bn).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjfipujSRgU&feature=player_embedded
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707

[vacuum]

Yes they need to make a containment wall also, maybe a mile in radius, really deep down in the ground. At least the Soviet Authorities, during the Chernobyl accident, made an effort to entomb it quickly, and they didn't say anything of what had happened, and Soviet Union was already then in a state of collapse. What we get is lies after lies, how they are struggling for weeks to get electricity to run pumps... I think at the end of this we will see a disaster, that is a magnitude or 2, greater than Chernobyl, and much of this is directly caused by an ability to take decisive action.

Besides being better prepared in the first place, what could they have done differently?

[keehah]

Besides being better prepared in the first place, what could they have done differently?


Not continue to leave the public frying in a nuclear radiation evacuation zone.

GSUS (http://gold-silver.us/forum/japan-earthquake-tsunami-and-nuclear-disaster/chernobyl-cleanup-survivors-message-'run-away-as-quickly-as-possible'/msg204730/#msg204730)

Contamination on the ground out to 32km is 5 Megabecquerel per square metre. Ten times higher than Chernobal exclusion zone of same distance.

Contamination on the ground at 78km is 1 Megabecquerel per square metre. Twice as high as the Chernobal exclusion zone that was evacuated within three days. It has not yet been evacuated in Japan.
Christopher Busby, -1:49 of this radio broadcast: http://www.thealexjonesshow.com/2011/03/25/christopher-busby-friday-march-25/

[Neuro]

Yes they need to make a containment wall also, maybe a mile in radius, really deep down in the ground. At least the Soviet Authorities, during the Chernobyl accident, made an effort to entomb it quickly, and they didn't say anything of what had happened, and Soviet Union was already then in a state of collapse. What we get is lies after lies, how they are struggling for weeks to get electricity to run pumps... I think at the end of this we will see a disaster, that is a magnitude or 2, greater than Chernobyl, and much of this is directly caused by an ability to take decisive action.

Besides being better prepared in the first place, what could they have done differently?
Instead of splashing water on the reactors, they could have entombed them! After the hydrogen explosions, which can't happen unless the core is very hot, they should have been honest and said the disaster is a fact, let's contain this as fast as possible, instead they have been claiming we are working on getting electricity to the pumps, so we can cool the reactors, meanwhile we splash a bit of water on them an see if that will work. For fucks sake the electricity was a kilometer or so from the reactor, and they have been repeating the mantra: We are working on restoring electricity to the pumps, for the last 14 days...

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPuiEb7_fa4&feature=player_embedded

[Errosion Of Accord]

Rad map
http://www.blacklistednews.com/GoogleEarth_Based_3D_Map_Of_Real-Time_Radioactivity_Distribution_In_Japan%3B_Projec ted_Global_Radioactivity_Dispersion_/13240/0/6/6/Y/M.html

NOVA on Chernobyl
http://www.blacklistednews.com/When_Does_a_Nuclear_Disaster_End%3F_Never./13251/0/6/6/Y/M.html

[gunDriller]

Yes they need to make a containment wall also, maybe a mile in radius, really deep down in the ground. At least the Soviet Authorities, during the Chernobyl accident, made an effort to entomb it quickly, and they didn't say anything of what had happened, and Soviet Union was already then in a state of collapse. What we get is lies after lies, how they are struggling for weeks to get electricity to run pumps... I think at the end of this we will see a disaster, that is a magnitude or 2, greater than Chernobyl, and much of this is directly caused by an ability to take decisive action.

Besides being better prepared in the first place, what could they have done differently?
Instead of splashing water on the reactors, they could have entombed them! After the hydrogen explosions, which can't happen unless the core is very hot, they should have been honest and said the disaster is a fact, let's contain this as fast as possible, instead they have been claiming we are working on getting electricity to the pumps, so we can cool the reactors, meanwhile we splash a bit of water on them an see if that will work. For fucks sake the electricity was a kilometer or so from the reactor, and they have been repeating the mantra: We are working on restoring electricity to the pumps, for the last 14 days...


and the engineers and technicians who have to go in and install and repair the pumps and the control electronics are just getting the Crispy Critters treatment.

the Japanese are masterful at robots, for the auto industry.

but they're not bringing in robots fast enough to save the workers.

i heard that the Roomba robot company is sending some machines to carry video cameras & measuring equipment around the radiated chambers, something like that.

[beefsteak]

Interesting, gunny. I thought someone posted earlier that the kinds of radiation being experienced at ground zero would fry electronics of some types, and mess up the photo transmission. I know squat about that angle, but thought I remembered reading that.

Any thoughts?

[Neuro]

Interesting, gunny. I thought someone posted earlier that the kinds of radiation being experienced at ground zero would fry electronics of some types, and mess up the photo transmission. I know squat about that angle, but thought I remembered reading that.

Any thoughts?


I think it is time they call Charlie Sheen!

[Serpo]

So we get all these cemented in reactors

and if the world turns to sh#t then who is going to be around to do the next cement job on the reactor.

Maybe no one is around and then all these reactors slowly start leaking over time when the cement casing gives way.

.....Chenobyl is over due now for more work.

[Serpo]

I think it is time they call Charlie Sheen!


Didnt he cause it?

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_T0M5nz_tg

[Neuro]

I think it is time they call Charlie Sheen!


Didnt he cause it?
Well if someone can solve a problem with the same level of thinking that caused the problem. It is him!

;D

[Large Sarge]

cliff high had an article mentioning suppressed technology, and that they have a "time warp" of some sort...

basically could put it around the reactor, and "age it"

causing the half lifes to go out...

I have no idea if that is true or not, but I do think there are suppressed technologies

might be something as simple as a basic bacteria that can survive in radiation

[Olmstein]

Who wants some plutonium?


Plutonium detected in soil at Fukushima nuke plant

TOKYO, March 29, Kyodo

Plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi atomic power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday, adding to woes over radiation contamination in the country's worst nuclear crisis.

The operator of the six-reactor complex said that the plutonium, the presence of which was confirmed for the first time in the ongoing nuclear emergency, could have been discharged from nuclear fuel at the plant hit by the devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami, but does not pose a major risk to human health.

Plutonium is more toxic than other radioactive substances such as iodine and cesium, but the levels confirmed from soil samples taken at the plant on March 21 and 22 were almost the same as those from the fallout detected in Japan following past nuclear tests by the United States and Russia, said the utility known as TEPCO.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said it remains unknown which reactor plutonium came from and that TEPCO and the science ministry will strengthen monitoring on the environment both in the plant and outside of a 20-kilometer exclusion zone set by the government.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for the nuclear regulatory body, said the detection of plutonium suggests ''certain damage to fuel rods'' and said it is ''deplorable'' that the toxic radioactive material was found despite various containment functions at the reactors.

Meanwhile, TEPCO and the agency said Monday that high levels of radiation exceeding 1,000 millisieverts per hour were spotted Sunday in water in a trench outside the No. 2 reactor's building at the nuclear plant. They said the contaminated water is suspected to have come from the reactor's core, where fuel rods have partially melted.

The agency said TEPCO is expected to pump out similarly highly radioactive water that has been building up in the basement of the No. 2 reactor's turbine building, which is connected to the trench, in a bid to eventually remove the water.

TEPCO has found the concentration of radioactive substances in a pool at the No. 2 reactor's basement was 100,000 times higher than usual for water in a reactor core.

The company added the radiation level in the air in the trench stood at 100 to 300 millisieverts.

At a radiation level of 1,000 millisieverts per hour, people could suffer a decrease in the number of lymphocytes -- a type of white blood cell -- in just 30 minutes, and half could die within 30 days by remaining in such conditions for four hours.

Although it remains unknown whether the contaminated water has flowed into the sea from the trench that is 55 meters away from the shore, TEPCO suspects the high concentration of radioactive substances found in seawater near the plant reactors' drainage outlets may be linked to the trench water.

Earlier Monday, the nuclear agency said radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,150 times the maximum allowable level was detected Sunday in a seawater sample taken around 1.5 kilometers north of the drainage outlets of the troubled Nos. 1-4 reactors.

Haruki Madarame, chairman of the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan, a government panel, told reporters he is ''very worried'' about the high-level radiation found in water in the trench, which is outside the radiation-controlled area set by TEPCO.

Maradame said he cannot predict when the ongoing nuclear emergency will end and pointed to the possibility that fuel rods in the No. 2 reactor, which were temporarily exposed to the atmosphere, have been significantly damaged.

''We must control the water well so it won't ever go outside'' the complex, said Sakae Muto, vice president of TEPCO, at a news conference.

On Monday, TEPCO continued to remove highly radioactive water from inside reactor buildings at the crisis-hit plant, in an effort to enable engineers to restore the power station's crippled cooling functions. The turbine buildings are equipped with electric equipment necessary to cool down the reactors.

Nishiyama denied the possibility that the No. 2 reactor's vessel has cracks or holes, saying there is no data to suggest this. It is rather likely that radioactive water has leaked from pipes or valves, he said.

He said it is now necessary to strike a balance between two missions -- injecting coolant water into the reactor cores and spent nuclear fuel pools to prevent them from overheating, and removing radioactive water in the turbine buildings and trenches.

The spokesman said the water contamination may have been caused by operations to pour massive amounts of coolant water into the reactors and pools.

Link. (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81609.html)

[Horn]

Plutonium is more toxic than other radioactive substances such as iodine and cesium, but the levels confirmed from soil samples taken at the plant on March 21 and 22 were almost the same as those from the fallout detected in Japan following past nuclear tests by the United States and Russia, said the utility known as TEPCO.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said it remains unknown which reactor plutonium came from and that TEPCO and the science ministry will strengthen monitoring on the environment both in the plant and outside of a 20-kilometer exclusion zone set by the government.

Sounds like they might be considering nuking the entire site as someone mentioned before...

[Serpo]

VID......

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/28/japan.nuclear.plutonium/?hpt=T2.

Tokyo (CNN) -- Some plutonium found in soil on the grounds of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant may have come from its earthquake-damaged reactors, but it poses no human health risk, the plant's owners reported Monday.

The element was found in soil samples taken March 21-22 from five locations around the plant, the Tokyo Electric Power Company told CNN late Monday. The company said it was equivalent to the amounts that fell on Japan following aboveground nuclear weapons tests by other countries in past decades.

"It is not a health risk to humans," the company said. But it added, "Just in case, TEPCO will increase the monitoring of the nuclear plant grounds and the surrounding environment."

Plutonium is a byproduct of nuclear reactions that is also part of the fuel mix at the plant's No. 3 reactor. It can be a serious health hazard if inhaled or ingested, but external exposure poses little health risk, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.


Three plutonium isotopes -- Pu-238, -239 and -240 -- were found in soil at five different points inside the plant grounds, Tokyo Electric reported. It said that plutonium found in two of the samples could have come out of the reactors that were damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that ravaged northern Japan.

All three isotopes have long half-lives, with plutonium-239 taking 24,000 years to lose half its radioactivity. Plutonium-238 has an 87-year half-life, while plutonium-240's is more than 6,500 years.

The company said the discovery would not change efforts to bring an end to the crisis at the plant, where three of the six reactors are believed to have suffered damage to their radioactive cores.




They are making it up as they go
Unprecedented…
Frankly no one knows how to end situation…
Beyond ability of Japanese authorities to contain…
Best guess on how this ends?…
There is going to be a bigger breach than we have already seen in 2 and 3…
Workers will be evacuated…
We will see at least two core meltdowns and two spent fuel pool fires…
It will end very, very badly, that is what I actually think is going to happen…
This will take weeks, months to contain it in best case…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_mk7T5MQxI&feature=player_embedded#at=91

[Serpo]

Type 74 Main Battle Tank with dozer attachment. Photo via Military-Today.com.



According to the Daily Yomiuri, the GSDF is sending two Type 74 main battle tanks to the Fukushima Daiichi reactor to help clean up rubble and debris from the earthquake, tsunami, and explosions at the reactor site. The rubble and debris are hampering emergency efforts to repair the reactors. The GSDF is using tanks instead of bulldozers because the thick steel hull of the Type 74 is effective at blocking some radiation from the crew. The tanks also have NBC air filtration systems.

The article says that the tanks will be sent from Camp Komakado, which according to Wikipedia is the headquarters of the 1st Tank Battalion, as well as the 1st Armored Training Unit. Other sources on the Internet indicate that one Type 74 per tank company is equipped with a dozer blade, in which case the 1st Tank Battalion probably has three such tanks on hand.

Kyodo News Agency has a picture of one of the tanks chained to a tank transporter.
http://www.rense.com/general93/tanks.htm

[silver solution]

cliff high had an article mentioning suppressed technology, and that they have a "time warp" of some sort...

basically could put it around the reactor, and "age it"

causing the half lifes to go out...

I have no idea if that is true or not, but I do think there are suppressed technologies

might be something as simple as a basic bacteria that can survive in radiation


Thats not going to kill off a lot of people so you can forget that!!

[Serpo]

Crane collapses on fuel rods at Fukushima

At 1:45, the newscaster states that a crane collapsed onto the fuel rods. This is MOX fuel, meaning they damaged rods that contained plutonium.

http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2011/03/crane-collapses-on-fuel-rods-at-fukushima.html


Sayonara, Tokyo
And so begins the radioactive ruination of Japan, and much of the rest of the world, at the hands of the nuclear demons unleashed in Fukushima by General Electric and the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO). The harsh reality, the cruel truth of the matter, is that this ghastly crisis is going to last months or maybe years, and maybe even a very, very long lot of years, given that the half-life of plutonium 239 is twenty-four thousand years.

But don't take my word for it. Here it is straight from the horse's mouth, a bit evasive, but nevertheless a tolerable admission of the truth:

“'Regrettably, we don't have a concrete schedule at the moment to enable us to say in how many months or years (the crisis will be over),' TEPCO vice-president Sakae Muto said ...” (1)

Months or years, the man says. Meanwhile, by the day, the crisis spirals more and more out of control and radiation levels are soaring to their highest levels since the reactors first began melting down and exploding. (2,3,4)

Tokyo is only about 160 miles from the site of the reactors that are melting down. As radiation levels rise in the region it is a firm guarantee that more and more radioactivity will fall out on Tokyo.

No doubt about it.

The inevitable consequence of that will be a dramatic withering of the cultural, social, commercial and economic life of the huge Tokyo megalopolis. As more and more people abandon Tokyo it will become a radioactive shadow of its former self. Of course the economic implications of that for global finance and commerce are immense, Tokyo is one of the three major centers of high finance in the world, along with London and New York, so its abandonment therefore has ineluctable repercussions that will rock the modern, global civilization to its core.

Do you think I'm full of it? That I don't know what I'm talking about?

Tell that to the 25 foreign governments that have already either closed their embassies in Tokyo, or have evacuated Tokyo and moved their embassies to Osaka. (5)

Tell that to the international bankers who are now fleeing Tokyo and Japan in droves. (6)

Tell that to the U.S. Navy which announced on March 17th that it was prepared to evacuate as many as 87,000 personnel if necessary. (7)

Tell that to the USO that announced two days later on March 19th that the U.S. Military has begun a voluntary evacuation of up to 200,000 military personnel and their dependents from Japan. (8, 9)

While all of this has been going on the Japanese government has also urged more evacuations and quietly widened the evacuation zone around the melting down Fukushima reactors. (10, 11)

The plain English translation of all of this activity is that the evacuation of Fukushima, of Japan, and of Tokyo, has already begun. Large numbers of people are already “voluntarily” on the move and fleeing from harm's way. The longer the crisis grinds on, the greater the numbers of people who will leave.

The impact on Japan, Tokyo and the world is incalculable. The dominoes are just beginning to topple and where this concatenation of catastrophic events will finally end, no one can say with certainty just yet.

But I can promise you this much: The Mother Of All Radioactive Roller Coaster Rides has left the starting gate and life will never again be the same for any of us. These weeks, thus, effectively mark the end of one era, and implicitly herald the beginning of another.

We are in new territory now, uncharted, radioactive territory and as this crisis grinds on, one of its initial big victims will assuredly be the city of Tokyo. If these reactors cannot be brought under control then its fate is all but sealed.

Like swarming rats fleeing a sinking ship, the mass exodus of “international bankers” from Tokyo and Japan over the past two weeks has a transparently plain meaning: it's finished, it's over.

So, sayonara, Tokyo. What comes next will not be pleasant.
http://eventhorizonchronicle.blogspot.com/2011/03/sayonara-tokyo.html

[gunDriller]

updates as of Tuesday AM from The Oil Drum .com ~

Toxic Pools Threaten to Spill into Ocean
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052748704471904576228013297106224-lMyQjAxMTAxMDIwODEyNDgyWj.html

Fukushima radioactive fallout nears Chernobyl levels
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20285-fukushima-radioactive-fallout-nears-chernobyl-levels.html?full=true&print=true

Plutonium found in Fukushima plant soil
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/29_02.html

TEPCO shares halted/Japanese stocks fall
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-29/japanese-stocks-decline-on-concern-over-struggle-to-contain-nuclear-crisis.html

[SLV^GLD]

A bit more on topic than the current trend in this thread:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42301458/ns/us_news-environment/#


BOSTON — Trace amounts of radioactive iodine linked to Japan's crippled nuclear power station have turned up in rainwater samples as far away as Massachusetts during the past week, state officials said Sunday.

The low level of radioiodine-131 detected in precipitation at a sample location in Massachusetts is comparable to findings in California, Washington state and Pennsylvania and poses no threat to drinking supplies, public health officials said.

Utilities in North and South Carolina also report trace amounts of radiation from the damaged nuclear reactor in Japan.

Progress Energy Inc. and Duke Energy Corp. in North Carolina and South Carolina Electric and Gas Co. all operate nuclear plants and say they've detected trace amounts of radiation.

[Antonio]

http://rense.com/general93/whent.htm

They are alreday suggesting blowing nukes inside the reactors in order to vaporize them. I thought of this in the beginning and it seemed like a crazy and probably stupid idea...
This is shaping up to be much worse than Chernobyl.

[undgrd]

Let me just preface this with the following. I know NOTHING about nuclear explosions!

To me, it sounds like a dumb fuck idea to release a thermonuclear explosion to fix this problem. Please explain to me why this is not a dumb fuck idea constructed by many many dumb fucks.


Thank you

[lapis]

I don't know where else to post this, but I just read an...editorial? By Clif on Half Past Human:

http://halfpasthuman.com/power.html

La puissance de la mort, or an invitation to a Shunning.....

It does no good to be pissed about it.

You are dead. They murdered you, and you need to get beyond the anger that this knowledge brings. There is yet work you must do.

The powers that be, and their political minions have been working this plan since the 1950's when Japan was forced into the GE designed nuclear reactors as part of the imposition of TPTB hegemony at the end of the Second Planetary War of the 20th century. Also known to academicians as 'WW2', this war not only nominally ended with nuclear release, but has now, all these decades later, been 'reborn' with nuclear release in Fukushima. ThePowersThatBe (Rothshield banksters, Rockefeller banksters, big oil, big pharma, and small soul politicians, and all zionist supporters) are determined to kill off a major part of us humans over these next few years to suit their perceived needs. They likely have, in the Fukushima nuclear plant implosion and meltdown, murdered several million of us....we just do not yet recognize that we (the afflicted) are soon-to-be dead.

There is no point to indulging in wild ass speculation about nuclear bombs being used to trigger the earthquake that caused the tsunami that swept away all the 'safety' equipment at Fukushima that led to the vaporization of hundreds of fuel rods that produced the radioactive poisoning of the planet that killed you. There is no point to putting your dwindling life energy into speculations about Haarp, or scalar weather wars, or any other perceived 'instrument' of your murder. None of it is likely factual, and TPTB are deliberately polluting the information stream to confuse your dying mind. They killed you. Deal with it.

There is no point to focusing on a single guilty person in your murder. It is a large, and well run conspiracy. Grasp this and give up the idea of taking revenge on any given witless stooge of a bankster or politician. To the conspiracy that is killing you, such people (low level conspirators) are sacrifices who were chosen exactly because they are expendable and easily replaced with the next, greed blinded, non thinking humanimal. It does you no good to seek to 'take them with you'. Besides, killing these people does not even slow the conspiracy down, and likely puts money in the pockets of TPTB in cleaning up the corpse and blood.

They have killed you, where you sit.

You are murdered. This is your power.

They (the stupid, duped, and controlled minions) are desperately trying to not be dead themselves. This is one of their many vulnerable points of weakness.

ThePowersThatBe, or those controlled (possessed) humans who think themselves 'lord and master' of this planet, are dependent on the weak-willed, easily-corrupted, small minded, gullible human minions. This is a huge damn weakness.

Time to take action.

What can be done? The Fukushima reactors are in full scale meltdown...how can we take action now?

Well, there exists on this planet now, technology involving thinking called 'closed time like curves' that can be used to save some humans. Many millions of us are already dead, but we can stop the damage now, by employing the CTLC technology. This technology is used in what is called the 'time industry'. Mostly it is a very secret, classified all the way up the rectum into the colon, military industry. There are groups in America, India, and China where the CTLC 'loops' are being explored and developed. These groups are controlled by corporations and political/military minions.

These 'loops' of time-stuff are held in magnetic containment fields in laboratories where the engineers in nominal control of the CTLC loops are fiddling around with trivialities such as reducing the 'experienced time' necessary to wash a load of dirty dishes at the direction of their 'masters', the gullible, greedy corporate and political minions.

We walking dead humans, the regular people teeming across this planet who just don't give a fuck about TPTB's grand goal of glorious global war and megadeath ritual over religious differences, need to get awake, and damn quick. We have very little time before the ground is littered with our splotchy, swollen, radioactive, rotting bodies.

What can we do?

Well, to start, let's agree to NOT fall into TPTB trap of violence. It just gives them a 'blood flush' that produces stiff dicks that they use to sexually abuse children. So let us be smarter than that.

We need to be asymmetric in our response. This means to develop a strategy and employ tactics against which they (tptb and their minions) have no defense.

One such tactic is an old one, well tried, but forgotten these days. This is 'shunning'. There are many aspects of shunning. Not only can you totally remove your energy from tptb by not being sucked into their games such as funding for political parties, or mega 'charities', or shopping at 'their' stores, but shunning also includes more active forms of resistance. As an instance, one could attend every political rally possible, and deliberately stand with their back to the speakers. Or attend, and simply start clapping and refuse to stop. When asked, present a note explaining your actions and keep right on clapping (la casserola variant). Or, attend the political rally and sing a 'patriotic' song, continuously, and when challenged, instantly flip the challenge back on the aggressor by insulting their patriotism. And other, similar variants.

Imagine how the political minions will react when their motorcade routes are lined with thousands of people who are not violently shouting and protesting, but standing, silent, and backs to the proceedings.

You laugh?! Well, indulge me once before you say that these tactics will not shatter the confidence of even the strongest personality, and also acknowledge that the minions as a class of people, are not known for their mental or emotional strength. Also acknowledge that humans need humans. What good does it do to strut the stage if the audience is shunning you....? What slimy scum minion political personality on teevee today would/could 'face' that kind of group pressure? None that are visible.

But what good does this do? Besides making us feel better (slightly, we are dying after all) in seeing the politicians piss themselves, what is to be accomplished? Well...see the point of the shunning is to get the attention of the politico's and then to inform them that their lives (as they knew them) are over until they get the 'time engineers' to work with the Closed Time-Like Curves to work on encapsulating and then degrading the danger within the remnants of Fukushima.

Oh, and while we are at it, why not put a 'time barrier bubble emergency containment system' at each and every one of the over 400/four hundred nuclear reactors around the planet, and also all the damn nuclear weapons facilities? Huh? Makes sense, eh?

There are many other variants of the shunning tactic that have been employed through out history. Do some creative searching and see the many forms employed. They work. Basically all of them tell this truth to power.....we know we cannot kill you (now), but we will take from you everything that makes your life worth living causing you to retreat to the little bunker in your mind where your fear rules you and your bowels, unless you do as you are told.

Get over the secrecy. Release the CTLC technology now. Fix this mess.

There is always one, mostly unstated, variant of the tactic, that scares the tptb into hot burning fear shits....coventry. That is next.....after all, if irradiated, and knowing myself to be dead, simply not yet prone, what the fuck do I care about paying my bills? Or obeying any of 'their' laws?

But, let us be smart, and for the sake of our personal karma, try the asymmetric, non violent route of shunning before heading into 'global jihad against banksters/tptb'.

Besides, shunning is more fun. It is actually amusing watching the minions try and figure out what the hell is going on....and then watching them piss themselves.

So, my challenge to the readers is to create new, non violent, variants of shunning and let us all see which politician pisses themselves first.

And a last point on this subject. It must be addressed. Violence. It is the last resort of the rational mind, and the first trap of the TPTB. However, it is still a legitimate tactic for change. And knowing this the ancient order of TPTB used to have a building in which they had people, like you and me, fight and kill each other for the amusement of TPTB, but also to eliminate the threat of violence to themselves by redirecting it. This building had a motto incised over its door. This motto was 'we who are about to die, salute you'. Well.....times have changed....can some one please go to that arch over the gladiator entrance to the Coliseum in Rome, and rewrite it so that it reads.....

“To TPTB, if it gets this far, we who are dying are going to gut you like fish....”
Oh, and directly to the CTLC engineers, it might help to call me about both the 'field sustenance' and 'interweaving' issues. There are a few ideas rattling around my old bald head that may assist your thinking.

with respect....get to work. You are dying and time is short.

clif

March 26, 2011

[Neuro]

Let me just preface this with the following. I know NOTHING about nuclear explosions!

To me, it sounds like a dumb fuck idea to release a thermonuclear explosion to fix this problem. Please explain to me why this is not a dumb fuck idea constructed by many many dumb fucks.


Thank you
Yes, it is certainly a very stupid idea instead of releasing the 1000's of tons of nuclear fuel an waste slowly over a long time, as in a core meltdown, all or almost all of it will be released immediately.... Vaporizing it doesn't mean it disappears, it means it will be released into the air... I don't think anyone can seriously consider this option. The cloud would kill anything in it's way...

[Large Sarge]

the southern hemisphere will be spared...

jet stream does not really cross the equator...


at this point I see burying this stuff as deep as possible about the only solution, and then covering it with cement.

nuking it is just craziness, instead of millions dead, it would be 100's of millions...

make a mountain of cement and sandbags, and cover all of them, then wall off part of the pacific ocean.....

[Horn]

I don't know where else to post this, but I just read an...editorial? By Clif on Half Past Human:

http://halfpasthuman.com/power.html

La puissance de la mort, or an invitation to a Shunning.....


You should make it, its own thread.

[Neuro]

the southern hemisphere will be spared...

jet stream does not really cross the equator...


at this point I see burying this stuff as deep as possible about the only solution, and then covering it with cement.

nuking it is just craziness, instead of millions dead, it would be 100's of millions...

make a mountain of cement and sandbags, and cover all of them, then wall off part of the pacific ocean.....

That's the best solution I see too, at this point!

[Serpo]

Japan activist warns another 'nuclear quake' looms


By Edmund Klamann

TOKYO | Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:40am EDT

(Reuters) - The nuclear safety crisis entering its third week in Japan was not exactly the disaster that long-term activist and author Takashi Hirose foresaw in his book last summer, "Nuclear Reactor Time Bomb".

But except for the location -- Hirose had predicted an imminent megaquake and nuclear accident at the Hamaoka plant 200 km southwest of Tokyo, not the Fukushima Daiichi plant 240 km northeast -- the scenario depicted in his first book on nuclear power in 15 years has proved eerily prescient.

Japanese authorities evacuated workers on Sunday from a reactor building they were working in after high doses of radiation were detected at a crippled nuclear power plant.

As Hirose watches what he believes is a bungled response by the government and Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) (9501.T), which runs the plant, his fears are as strong as ever that a repeat is set to hit on the other side of the Japanese capital.

"I think it will definitely occur soon," he said, citing geological research on earthquake cycles suggesting that a massive quake may be imminent in the Tokai region near the Hamaoka plant.

"I've looked at the entire country, and there's not a single reactor that's safe."

Japan, at the crossroads of four tectonic plates, is the site of one-fifth of the world's earthquakes of magnitude 6 or more. The massive magnitude-9.0 quake that struck northeast Japan two weeks ago left an estimated 27,000 dead or missing and was the world's fourth largest since 1900.

The possibility of an imminent magnitude 8-plus earthquake in the Tokai region near the Hamaoka plant was brought to the public's attention by geologist Ishibashi Katsuhiko in the 1970s and a government report has estimated there is an 87 percent chance of such an earthquake within the next 30 years.

"The Pacific plate is moving, and we shouldn't be expecting that the other plates are just sitting quietly," Hirose said, in between lectures to a Tokyo citizen's group on the Fukushima crisis and living with the threat of radiation.

Hirose, 68, a prominent anti-nuclear power activist in the 1980s who wrote prolifically on the topic and became a regular fixture on TV talk shows after the Chernobyl accident, lamented the relative lack of concern about the issue over the last decade or so.

"There's been something wrong with Japanese media for the past 15 years," he said.

"There used to be a time when newspaper reporters and TV would use people like me, let us have our say. I don't know where they've gone. They're not allowing the Japanese people to think."

Now Hirose is back on TV and his book is in demand, selling out at Kinokuniya, one of the nation's top book retailers, and Amazon's Japan web site.

Nuclear power has come under renewed scrutiny since the Fukushima accident, and Chubu Electric Power Co (9502.T), which serves central Japan including the flagship factories of Toyota Motor Co (7203.T), has said it would delay construction of a new reactor at Hamaoka.

But Hirose remains on guard and hoped that overseas criticism of Japan's nuclear programme as a result of the current crisis will help his cause.

"I'd like to see political pressure from America, and the whole world," he said."If they do that, the Japanese people will realise what's going on."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/27/uk-japan-activist-idUSLNE72Q00420110327

[woodman]

Every nuke plant in Japan should be immediately shut down until proven to be completely disaster proof. Hell, every nuke plant on earth should be shit-canned. These things are a disaster waiting to happen. What kind of fuck-tards designed these things? What unbelievable stupidity, to put the spent fuel in ponds above the reactors!

[osoab]

the southern hemisphere will be spared...

jet stream does not really cross the equator...


at this point I see burying this stuff as deep as possible about the only solution, and then covering it with cement.

nuking it is just craziness, instead of millions dead, it would be 100's of millions...

make a mountain of cement and sandbags, and cover all of them, then wall off part of the pacific ocean.....

That's the best solution I see too, at this point!


What are they doing for underneath the reactor? Even if it is entombed, the bottom needs to be even more secured due to further ground water/ ocean contamination.

I agree entombment is the only solution. How many are gong to sacrifice themselves for the endeavor they are currently undertaking? Even if they pour concrete over the entire site, residual heat will be an issue for some time. Would placing a vast amount of cold water circulating pipes through the entombment help decrease the overall temp? They would probably need to have the piping just for the concrete alone.

[ximmy]

We can all relax now, EPA is raising safe radiation level guidelines to offset any increase in radiation we are subjected too... Thank God for the EPA... !!! |--0--|

http://theintelhubradio.com/2011/03/28/epa-set-to-increase-radioactive-release-guidelines-%E2%80%93-pags/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acf7JlfhZc0

[Antonio]

Every nuke plant in Japan should be immediately shut down until proven to be completely disaster proof. Hell, every nuke plant on earth should be shit-canned. These things are a disaster waiting to happen. What kind of fuck-tards designed these things? What unbelievable stupidity, to put the spent fuel in ponds above the reactors!


I`ve been thinking about the spent fuel on top of the reactors. I know next to zero about nuclear energy but it seems to me that these reactors don`t have tops anymore. So where are the spent rods? Probably floating in the air somewhere on the way to California...
When the dust settles (pun intended) we may find out that Japs and MSM everywhere lied to us in ways that make the rotten Soviet leaders seem like heros. At least we constructed the underground cooling system under the reactor and entombed it as fast as possible, the head of Soviet Atomic energy got a lethal dose of radiation after flying over Chernobyl in a chopper and personally taking the radiation measurements.
PS. Russian media says Japan has been making plutonium and has about 1000 tons of reactor-grade Pu and about 10 tons of weapons-grade Pu.
Japan may already have dozens of nukes.

[woodman]

Every nuke plant in Japan should be immediately shut down until proven to be completely disaster proof. Hell, every nuke plant on earth should be shit-canned. These things are a disaster waiting to happen. What kind of fuck-tards designed these things? What unbelievable stupidity, to put the spent fuel in ponds above the reactors!


I`ve been thinking about the spent fuel on top of the reactors. I know next to zero about nuclear energy but it seems to me that these reactors don`t have tops anymore. So where are the spent rods? Probably floating in the air somewhere on the way to California...
When the dust settles (pun intended) we may find out that Japs and MSM everywhere lied to us in ways that make the rotten Soviet leaders seem like heros. At least we constructed the underground cooling system under the reactor and entombed it as fast as possible, the head of Soviet Atomic energy got a lethal dose of radiation after flying over Chernobyl in a chopper and personally taking the radiation measurements.
PS. Russian media says Japan has been making plutonium and has about 1000 tons of reactor-grade Pu and about 10 tons of weapons-grade Pu.
Japan may already have dozens of nukes.


This is a distinct possibility. I don't believe it takes much to make a trigger for a hydrogen bomb.

The chain of stupidity in Japan and here in the states is astounding. The 'tards are running the show. I have watched a lot of videos on Chernobyl and have a feeling of deep respect for what so many did there. One can onlly hope the Japanese show the same balls. I believe they will, but wether it will make a difference or not, who knows. We have many reactors just like these in the states too.

[Spectrism]

Just think about that for a moment. What were the Japanese planning with all the nuke bomb capability? Maybe this event happened to confound their plan?

[beefsteak]

Get out the lead aprons and telephoto lenses for use in flyovers....this will be one for future "coffee table books," in the West Coast of USA, of course.



Guardian (U.K.) Reports Core At Reactor 2 May Have Melted To Concrete Floor, Radioactive Lava Next?

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/29/2011 15:54 -0400

And another update from Fukushima on its route to the concrete dome, irradiated ground water, and a 100 km "no live zone" from the Guardian:

The radioactive core in a reactor at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and onto a concrete floor, experts say, raising fears of a major release of radiation at the site.

The warning follows an analysis by a leading US expert of radiation levels at the plant. Readings from reactor two at the site have been made public by the Japanese authorities and TEPCO, the utility that operates it.

Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling-water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at Fukushima, told the Guardian workers at the site appeared to have "lost the race" to save the reactor, but said there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe.

Workers have been pumping water into three reactors at the stricken plant in a desperate bid to keep the fuel rods from melting down, but the fuel is at least partially exposed in all the reactors.

At least part of the molten core, which includes melted fuel rods and zirconium alloy cladding, seemed to have sunk through the steel "lower head" of the pressure vessel around reactor two, Lahey said.

"The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey said. "I hope I am wrong, but that is certainly what the evidence is pointing towards."

The good news is that the next step will not be a Chernobyl type explosion, or so the GE expert believes, but a far more "benign" radioactive lava escalation. (? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? :baa)

The major concern when molten fuel breaches a containment vessel is that it reacts with the concrete floor of the drywell underneath, releasing radioactive gases into the surrounding area. At Fukushima, the drywell has been flooded with seawater, which will cool any molten fuel that escapes from the reactor and reduce the amount of radioactive gas released.

Lahey said: "It won't come out as one big glob; it'll come out like lava, and that is good because it's easier to cool."

The drywell is surrounded by a secondary steel-and-concrete structure designed to keep radioactive material from escaping into the environment. But an earlier hydrogen explosion at the reactor may have damaged this.

===============

cogent readership commentary after Durden's psot, as per usual...some most thought provoking!

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guardian-reports-core-reactor-2-may-have-melted-concrete-floor-radioactive-lava-next (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guardian-reports-core-reactor-2-may-have-melted-concrete-floor-radioactive-lava-next)

opps...2 more hot of the presses' updates...BRB

[beefsteak]

As the West Coast USA slumbers...Durden posts this:

=====================
TEPCO Stock Implodes As Radioactive Iodine In Fukushima Seawater Now 3,355 Above Limit

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/29/2011 23:09 -0400


Following the full day trading halt yesterday, a soon to be nationalized TEPCO decided to reopen. Instead it should not have passed "GO" and gone straight to prison.

The stock crashed 21% from yesterday's closing tick immediately at the open, 35% from Monday's close, and 79% in under three weeks. To all the major holders (which just happen to be Japan's largest insurance companies as disclosed previously) our condolences.

And while TEPCO continues to be the only shining beacon of the complete uncontrolled collapse of the rescue efforts in Fukushima, with global markets now having moved on, here are the latest and greatest headlines out of the worst radioactive disaster since Chernobyl:



* IODINE IN SEAWATER SOUTH OF PLANT 3355 TIMES LIMIT (highest reading ever announced)
* SEAWATER SAMPLE TAKEN YESTERDAY AFTERNOON (so by now it is all good)
* LOW PRESSURE IN REACTOR 2, 3 PRESSURE VESSELS COULD BE SIGN OF LEAKAGE (or it could be a sign that futures are about to surge: nobody knows for sure).

And the latest news from Asahi, which is precisely as we predicted from the very beginning: "giant shroud mulled over Fukushima 1 to cut radiation leak." Now if only here was a shroud for all the radioactive lava and seeping subsoil water radiation...

[Antonio]

"It won't come out as one big glob; it'll come out like lava, and that is good because it's easier to cool."

Plutonium lava is not like Chernobyl, it`s good for you like peanut butter...

[beefsteak]

TEPCO Confirms CEO Shimizu "Ill And Hospitalized", Chairman Katsumata Now In Charge

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/29/2011 23:39 -0400


While it is no secret that TEPCO CEO Masataka Shimizu had been MIA in the aftermath of the Fukushima explosion, it appears things are progressing for the worse. From Reuters' Natsuko Waki: "TEPCO CEO "ill and hospitalised", TEPCO says company president Shimizu suffering from extreme dizziness, chairman Katsumata now at helm, and that the president was not taken to hospital by an ambulance."

TEPCO has scheduled a press conference for 6am GMT to go over these and other matters.

Alas, this may be game over for TEPCO.

What next: will the national guard take over? Or a joint French-US endomement task force?
====================


Could TEPCO's el presidente' possibly be dead from radiation sickness? ? ? ?
No ambulance was used, acc'd to the above story... It is duly noted no dateline on the above "ill and hospitalized" announcement...at least at this time. Probably took place immediately after the Press Conference where he broke down into tears overwhelmed by the tragedy on his watch.

Again, while WEST COAST USA slumbers...

[beefsteak]

Finally,
word is actually "leaking out" of endomement...but why would US and France be trusted with it?

Isn't made in Russia/Chernobyl actual experience and follow-up more recent and relevant than experimentation byUS and French engineers?

What a strange twist...again, because USA West Coast, and 1 naval outpost and Hawaii directly in the wind current and water current path of this horrific tragedy?

Yellow Rain in Cali? Radioactive Rain in Boston? This just keeps getting better and better. NOT!

[Cobalt]

Today they found seaweed washing up on the shores of Vancouver BC contains radioactive iodine.

Of course the news said "Very low levels and No reason for human health concerns"

[Antonio]

Finally,
word is actually "leaking out" of endomement...but why would US and France be trusted with it?

Isn't made in Russia experience more recent and relevant than experimentation by US and French engineers?

What a strange twist...




Russia designed and constructed about 10 different types of robots in order to work on Chernobyl. One doesn`t often associate Russia with robots but one does with Japan. Where are Jap robots?

[beefsteak]

Seems as I recall water cooling efforts on Hawaiian volcanic lava back in '73. Here's the USGS report link on this effort for those who are interested.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-724/edintro.html

[beefsteak]

Excellent points you made there, Antonio. I'm glad you're on this thread. You're help keeping it real with your apparent boots on the ground, historical USSR interactions and perspectives.

I didn't know about the strides in robotics under extreme radioactive stressors at/after Chernobyl blew, let alone that they were used there.

Good to know.

What I want to know is if any of the brains behind endomement of Chernobyl are still living today and can they be located. I'm almost too afraid to ask.

[lapis]

Of course the news said "Very low levels and No reason for human health concerns"


Yeah, I'm sure sick of all the obfuscation. Give me the actual numbers!

[Serpo]

Who Are the Liquidators?
Mon, 03/28/2011 - 20:36 — Anonymous
by:
Charles M. Young



The prime minister of Japan has said that his government is “not in a position where we can be optimistic” about the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. Is there any logical conclusion to draw from that statement other than that a large chunk of Japan is going to be uninhabitable?

They’ve got four nuclear reactors right next to each other in various states of disaster and probably meltdown. Two more are damaged. The workers on site are exhausted, sick and dying. The ocean and air around the plant are highly radioactive. The surrounding farms are producing radioactive vegetables. The drinking water in Tokyo is radioactive. If the Fukushima reactors keep exploding and burning and blowing radiation into the reservoirs, how long before Tokyo becomes Jonestown with a population of 13,000,000?

Michio Kaku, the physicist and author, has suggested on CNN that the best option right now is entombment. There’s nothing to salvage, he said, so the Japanese government should get some shielded helicopters and dump sand, boric acid, dolomite and concrete on the reactors and bury them for eternity. This could be done in ten days, he said, if they just got the materials together, which they aren’t doing because the government is not facing the implications of its own declared lack of optimism.

I’m not a physicist, but entombment at Chernobyl was vastly more complicated than Kaku was able to discuss in the time limits of American television. The Chernobyl reactor had to be mostly neutralized before being permanently buried, which meant that 800,000 or so “liquidators” had to run into the plant, perform some menial task in the presence of boiling nuclear waste for a minute or two, and then run out. Most of them are now sick, dying or dead from radiation poisoning.

Perhaps burying Fukushima will be a more complicated process, because it has a lot more waste lying around and four out-of-control reactors while Chernobyl had just one. I don’t know. Either way, there is a moral problem that needs to be discussed.

Who will be the liquidators?

Whether Japan needs a few hundred volunteers to shovel boric acid on burning plutonium, or whether Japan needs 800,000 draftees, as in the Soviet Union, somebody’s got to do it.
Japanese soldiers suit up to help fight the Fukushima meltdownJapanese soldiers suit up to help fight the Fukushima meltdown

Michio Kaku suggested the Japanese military, presumably because they are available and can fly helicopters. One could also argue that soldiers are paid to risk their lives for their country, and Japan has never needed them more.

Lets think about this, I say. The Japanese military is constitutionally forbidden to make war on anyone, so they are probably the nicest military in the world. And like every other military, it is full of young men who aren’t paid much, who haven’t lived much, who haven’t even started their families yet. Most important, Japanese soldiers bear no moral responsibility at all for the problem. Why should they die to solve it?

If someone has to die an agonizing, terrifying, nauseating, blistering, stinking, metastasizing death, who should be first guy to run into the Fukushima reactors with a bucket of wet cement?

I nominate Jeffrey Immelt.

Immelt is chairman and CEO of General Electric. General Electric designed all six of the faulty Fukushima reactors. General Electric built three of them. General Electric claimed it was safe to build these reactors next to the ocean in an earthquake zone. General Electric built 23 reactors in the United States exactly like the ones melting down right now in Japan. General Electric has made colossal profits promoting nuclear power in Japan and around the world. Jeffrey Immelt made $15.2 million last year.

He makes the most money, it’s his company, and he tells everyone else what to do. At any time since taking over GE in 2000, he could have said, “Those plants are too dangerous. We sold them to Japan. We need to shut them down.” He didn’t do that. Hence the nuclear waste in Tokyo’s drinking water belongs to Jeffrey Immelt.

This is what Immelt says on the GE website: “I’m out talking about this company seven days a week, 24 hours a day, with nothing to hide. We’re a 130-year-old company that has a great record of high-quality leadership and a culture of integrity.”

That is the statement of a moral turd. A shameless, sociopathic, moral turd. GE ran the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, one of the most polluted places on the planet. GE has paved parking lots with nuclear waste. GE has released vast clouds of radiation on innocent, unwarned people in United States just to see what would happen. GE has done radiation experiments on the testes of prisoners without properly warning them. GE dumped 1.3 million pounds of PCBs into the Hudson River, making it poisonous for generations. GE has refused to clean up the PCBs in the Hudson and elsewhere. GE has lied repeatedly about the PCBs. GE is a serial polluter of ground water. GE takes enormous pride in paying no corporate taxes in the United States. GE has been fined many times for defrauding the the Defense Department. GE has been fined many times for design flaws and safety violations at its nuclear plants in the United States. GE has shipped most of its operations overseas so it can pay workers less and get fined less. GE owns a big chunk of NBC and MSNBC, which has been covering Japan less and less as the meltdown gets worse and worse. GE sees to it that all those NBC Dateline true crime documentaries don’t inform anyone about GE crimes. And last, but far from least, GE launched the political career of Ronald Reagan.

For all that, GE has been named “America’s Most Admired Company” in a poll conducted by Fortune magazine.

For all that, Jeffrey Immelt has been named Chairman of Obama’s Economic Advisory Panel.

For all that, I say give Jeffrey Immelt a one-way ticket to Fukushima and a bucket of wet cement. While he’s pouring it on the burning fuel rods, he can throw in his MBA from Harvard.

Then give another one-way ticket and bucket of wet cement to Jack Welch, who was head of GE from 1981 to 2000. He can toss his #1 best-selling autobiography, Jack: Straight from the Gut, onto the fuel rods as well.

Then the Japanese get to pick between their prime minister and the head of the Tokyo Electric Power Company. But GE should go first. It’s the honorable way. Harakiri for the 21st century.
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/534

[Neuro]

Finally,
word is actually "leaking out" of endomement...but why would US and France be trusted with it?

Isn't made in Russia experience more recent and relevant than experimentation by US and French engineers?

What a strange twist...



Russia designed and constructed about 10 different types of robots in order to work on Chernobyl. One doesn`t often associate Russia with robots but one does with Japan. Where are Jap robots?

Yes even though you may not be able to do anything about molten nuclear fuel, there should be a few rods that are unmolten, and could be picked out by robots, to somehow limit this mess. I don't know. Maybe it is just best to start shuffle boron lead sand and cement on, and pile it high, and start building the pacific ocean barricade...

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vNdtsteNXA&feature=related
here you can see the actual footage of the most horrible part of Chernobyl cleanup. This is surreal, picking up pieces of fuel with shovels and even hands.

[Antonio]

I`ve just remembered the most famous Russian joke about Chernobyl, it appeared about a year after.
An old peasant woman is selling apples at a street fair and screaming: "Chernobyl apples! Chernobyl apples!"
Some guy comes up to her and says: " you must be retarded, who is gonna buy Chernobyl apples, why are you screaming this?"
The old woman says: "Oh, but they do buy them,son...some buy for the wives, some for their mothers-in-law..."

[Mouse]

Start munching, trip kiddies:

The rain is here. I got tanks of rain that I need to decide to dump or just fukushima it and use the water for my gardens.. :conf: I need the water either way, and the rads are going to get into the well water. I will decide this in due time. I have avoided the rain over the last week for the most part, by staying inside when it rained. The rain is most likely radioactive. I stay out of it. I wish I had meters, but I do not. The MSM is lying to you. Start taking your rad pills in 1/3 or 1/2 dose if you have it. They are lying globally about measurements.

I read where the Swedes or Swiss were suggesting intake of iodide tablets every three days for those "within" affected areas.

I might suggest to you to start dosing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3973tfsllqw

[Antonio]

Guys, everyone must have a good quality Geiger counter. I bought my slightly used Radalert on ebay in 2000 for 160$, it goes for 600$ today if not more. Today`s background in NYC is 12 ct/m which is very low, anything over 30 sustained for a few days would cause me to worry, not because such dose is anywhere close to dangerous but because if it goes over 30 it can reach dangerous levels soon.
If you are thinking about preps, a geiger is one prep I cannot imagine being without. I`ve lived thru Chernobyl when I was in my teens and not having a geiger was the most painful part of the experience, the utter helplessness of having to rely on the govt which always lies to you everywhere. I knew from my classmate whose parents were chemistry professors with access to geigers that there were hot spots all over St.Petersburg, food was contaminated everywhere, we all accumulated enough within a year or so in order to make a geiger scream when it was held next to our chestbones.

[Large Sarge]

I was watching the local pbs show last night, and had a few chernobyl survivors (one guy who had shoveled the radiuoactive mess back into the reactor)

he had 2 daughters after that, one died at age 5 from leukemia, the other developed leukemia (around age 18 or so), but survived.

anyway it said long term low level radiation destroys the brain (literally)

the birds and other wildlife around chernobly have brains that are at least 20% (I believe they said as high as 40% smaller) smaller.

thats very bad news IMO

like humanity is taking a step backwards here....

[gunDriller]

well, how do you like that !

my cheap Walmart multivitamins have 150 micro-grams of Potassium Iodide per pill.

i'd have to take 400 to get near the recommended dose, but still ... it's vaguely re-assuring :sarc:

[Large Sarge]

I think if folks want to try the lugols iodine (skin application)

I would paint that stuff on over the thyroid (throat area)

maximize your chances

I think Kelp might be a better choice than lugols, the old story of the japanese monks who survived the nuclear attacks, they were eating a very pristine diet, high in seafood, they were just "so many kilometers" from the blast....

[Large Sarge]

here is the story on the monks, apparently they were jesuits, and they attribute their survival to prayer (not good diet)

http://ateneophysicsnews.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/how-eight-jesuits-survived-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-nuclear-physics-and-the-holy-rosary/

( I cannot confirm or deny this story, just something I have heard repeated for a long time now)

[beefsteak]

Sarge,
the thing that strikes me after reading your monk story is that the monks were doing the prayin' and kelpin' thing long before the incident. Now THAT is an example of preppin', yes?

beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Guys, everyone must have a good quality Geiger counter. I bought my slightly used Radalert on ebay in 2000 for 160$, it goes for 600$ today if not more. Today`s background in NYC is 12 ct/m which is very low, anything over 30 sustained for a few days would cause me to worry, not because such dose is anywhere close to dangerous but because if it goes over 30 it can reach dangerous levels soon.
If you are thinking about preps, a geiger is one prep I cannot imagine being without. I`ve lived thru Chernobyl when I was in my teens and not having a geiger was the most painful part of the experience, the utter helplessness of having to rely on the govt which always lies to you everywhere. I knew from my classmate whose parents were chemistry professors with access to geigers that there were hot spots all over St.Petersburg, food was contaminated everywhere, we all accumulated enough within a year or so in order to make a geiger scream when it was held next to our chestbones.


Antonio,
does your Radalert STILL scream when you place it next to your chest bones? Honest question!

And 25-ish years later, do you have related health issues you are willing to talk about?

Incredible that we have a Chernobyl survivor on this thread. Again, my thanks for your presence and your post! The fact you are here and typing extends the ray of hope.

beefsteak

[Large Sarge]

Sarge,
the thing that strikes me after reading your monk story is that the monks were doing the prayin' and kelpin' thing long before the incident. Now THAT is an example of preppin', yes?

beefsteak


I tend to stay out of the religous issues, talking religion is kind of like that old story of the 3 blind men who are each holding a part of the elephant (one has the trunk, the tail, etc)

and when asked what they have, each gives a different answer, and each think they are correct...

I will say this, if the story is true, it seems to be a real miracle to me...

all the best,
Sarge

[Horn]

I think if folks want to try the lugols iodine (skin application)

I would paint that stuff on over the thyroid (throat area)

maximize your chances


Does in come in colors?

I was thinking of a David Lee Roth Eat em & Smile costume, while I run thru the jungle searching for plantain. :o

[beefsteak]

Sarge,
sorry, I wasn't so much thinking about the "religious angle" as you pointed out is the "third rail" even though we all have a spiritual dimension....

....as much as I've been reflecting on the lifestyle choices--religious, dietary or otherwise--one makes before an nuclear disaster affects them.

Here's Antonio stating that in 2000 (the dreaded Y-2K year we all recall) he bought a Radalert unit. It's 2011 and he's now using it in NY I believe he said.
That's a prep I doubt many made.

Another one is the disposable masks, outer wear, baking soda, French Green Clay preps. I'd wager most were thinking food, clothing, water, gasoline, OTC meds, etc., and not nuclear preps. Nothing like a prepping plan having a big fat hole in it, pre-think wise...and ayup, here comes the nuke tank right through that front line of preps.

Kind of disheartening, yes?

All the best to you as well, Sarge!

beefsteak

[beefsteak]

I think if folks want to try the lugols iodine (skin application)

I would paint that stuff on over the thyroid (throat area)

maximize your chances


Does in come in colors?

I was thinking of a David Lee Roth Eat em & Smile costume, while I run thru the jungle searching for plantain. :o



Actually yes...ugly reddish brown. And stinks. Once you smell real iodine, especially if swabbed on the thyroid area, and then wear it there all day under your open shirt collar or buttoned down/necktie deal, you never get the stink out of your nose. Or the noses of others who work with you. You've seen the iodine solution swabbed on in those Grey's Anatomy episods, that is dirty yellow? That's another hue, same stuff.

And betadine is another product that was removed from OTC access several decades ago as I recall.

beefsteak

[Large Sarge]

you want my semi-scientific take on the folks surviving the blast (not the structures, etc)

Radiation has a relationship with Chi (life energy), also called Orgone, Prana, Mana (as in Mana from heaven), etc

virtually every culture in the world has a name for it

Radiation changes the life energy, its harmful, and life energy changes the "half life" of radiation. (reduces the half life substantially)

I confess I do not understand the entire relationship, it still eludes me.

but if Prayer was shown to increase your Chi

then it would certainly give a substantial advantage over everyone else, especially combined with a pristine monk diet

[DMac]

you want my semi-scientific take on the folks surviving the blast (not the structures, etc)

Radiation has a relationship with Chi (life energy), also called Orgone, Prana, Mana (as in Mana from heaven), etc

virtually every culture in the world has a name for it

Radiation changes the life energy, its harmful, and life energy changes the "half life" of radiation. (reduces the half life substantially)

I confess I do not understand the entire relationship, it still eludes me.

but if Prayer was shown to increase your Chi

then it would certainly give a substantial advantage over everyone else, especially combined with a pristine monk diet




A small tangent here, but if you have not read about the Neuroscience of Meditation I think you will find it fascinating.

An example of this kind of study:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.02/dalai.html


...Davidson recalls the "extraordinary power of compassion" he experienced in the Dalai Lama's presence.

A decade later, he got a chance to examine Tibetan Buddhists in his own lab. In June 2002, Davidson's associate Antoine Lutz positioned 128 electrodes on the head of Mattieu Ricard. A French-born monk from the Shechen Monastery in Katmandu, Ricard had racked up more than of 10,000 hours of meditation.

Lutz asked Ricard to meditate on "unconditional loving-kindness and compassion." He immediately noticed powerful gamma activity - brain waves oscillating at roughly 40 cycles per second -indicating intensely focused thought. Gamma waves are usually weak and difficult to see. Those emanating from Ricard were easily visible, even in the raw EEG output. Moreover, oscillations from various parts of the cortex were synchronized - a phenomenon that sometimes occurs in patients under anesthesia.

The researchers had never seen anything like it. Worried that something might be wrong with their equipment or methods, they brought in more monks, as well as a control group of college students inexperienced in meditation. The monks produced gamma waves that were 30 times as strong as the students'. In addition, larger areas of the meditators' brains were active, particularly in the left prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for positive emotions.

I imagine the prayer (meditation) practiced by the monks you describe had effects on the electromagnetic waves and energies surrounding their body.

[Horn]

but if Prayer was shown to increase your Chi

then it would certainly give a substantial advantage over everyone else, especially combined with a pristine monk diet


Along with dose of Oath of Celibacy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX8KZOBDqQs

[Antonio]

Guys, everyone must have a good quality Geiger counter. I bought my slightly used Radalert on ebay in 2000 for 160$, it goes for 600$ today if not more. Today`s background in NYC is 12 ct/m which is very low, anything over 30 sustained for a few days would cause me to worry, not because such dose is anywhere close to dangerous but because if it goes over 30 it can reach dangerous levels soon.
If you are thinking about preps, a geiger is one prep I cannot imagine being without. I`ve lived thru Chernobyl when I was in my teens and not having a geiger was the most painful part of the experience, the utter helplessness of having to rely on the govt which always lies to you everywhere. I knew from my classmate whose parents were chemistry professors with access to geigers that there were hot spots all over St.Petersburg, food was contaminated everywhere, we all accumulated enough within a year or so in order to make a geiger scream when it was held next to our chestbones.


Antonio,
does your Radalert STILL scream when you place it next to your chest bones? Honest question!

And 25-ish years later, do you have related health issues you are willing to talk about?

Incredible that we have a Chernobyl survivor on this thread. Again, my thanks for your presence and your post! The fact you are here and typing extends the ray of hope.

beefsteak


Hey bro! Here is how my high school class found out that we almost shone in the dark in 1987 or so. I was 16 at the time and we all had what is called
"Civil Defence" classes in USSR. Every HS had them, this is where every HS student learns basic survival/military skills such as shooting a .22 rifle and AK47 plus they tell you the basics of WMDs. So, during the class about nukes the instructor who is always a military guy showed us a big old geiger, held the probe to a beta source which started to chirp a little and then out of sheer curiosity went around the class and held it to our chests and in each case the thing chirped like crazy, much faster than background. The whole thing lasted a few minutes but we knew right away what it meant. He was an idiot and didn`t say much, just mumbled something like "these days we all have it inside, probably strontium..." etc.
I got hit by a radioactive rain 2-3 days after Chernobyl which caused my hair to fall out for the next few years, it became thinner but I still have a full head of hair, no health problems due to radiation at all, the Geiger now shows background. I think we all pissed it out within a few yrs.
There were rumors that green tea and red wine helps you to piss it out and I had tons of both, still drink green tea everyday. I used to work out like crazy at the time, it had to help elimination plus the sauna too. Also, we use iodine tincture on every scrape and pimple, I bet our thyroids were saturated, I remember putting drops of it in a glass of water and drinking it during the days of the accident, never potassium iodide.
We never reached the state of panic about radiation in Leningrad because it was useless to worry about something that you have no control over plus the fact that we felt spared by the disaster. Comparing to those in Ukraine and Belarus our troubles were miniscule, in those regions people literally shone in the dark. I met people from Kiev who were there at the time, same attitude, thank God we are not from Chernobyl ;D. Those from Chernobyl are probably happy they didn`t have to dig thru the reactor and so on. There are always those who are worse off than you are unless you are at ground zero.
We all saw guys on TV who made the ultimate sacrifice so worrying about contaminated food 1000s of kilometers away seemed like lack of balls. I think small kids are much more susceptible to radiation damage, being physically strong also decides the fate, look at those Russian miners who worked there and are still alive, they are beefy and strong today, most of the weaker ones are dead, probably the bodymass acts as a shield for the internal organs ???.

[Antonio]

http://rt.com/politics/blogs/kremlin-messages/energy-russia-japan-nuclear/
Medvedev`s speech about Japan.
Notice that nobody says in plain language how bad things are there, including him who has the firsthand info from the Russian cleanup workers who are coming back from Japan.
Sometimes I feel like going there myself with my radalert and finding out exactly how bad it is.

[woodman]

http://rt.com/politics/blogs/kremlin-messages/energy-russia-japan-nuclear/
Medvedev`s speech about Japan.
Notice that nobody says in plain language how bad things are there, including him who has the firsthand info from the Russian cleanup workers who are coming back from Japan.
Sometimes I feel like going there myself with my radalert and finding out exactly how bad it is.


Thanks for the link.

From the speech:
"As of today, nuclear power is the safest way to generate energy available to us. It is safe provided we observe certain regulations during the projection, construction and management of the power plants. These rules, evidently, have to be the same for everyone. This is where we have to carefully revise currently existing laws, both domestic and international. I believe both can be improved."

They have all been saying this same crap since I was a kid. We will keep getting poisoned from "accidents" until the earth is a nuclear wasteland.

[DMac]

EPA: Radioactive Iodine-131 levels in PA & MA rainwater “exceed maximum contaminant level permitted in drinking water” (http://enenews.com/alert-epa-radioactive-iodine-131-levels-in-rainwater-exceed-maximum-contaminant-level-permitted-in-drinking-water?replytocom=3297)

Radioactive Iodine-131 in Pennsylvania rainwater sample is 3300% above federal drinking water standard (http://enenews.com/radioactive-iodine-131-in-pennsylvania-rainwater-sample-3300-above-federal-drinking-water-standard)

[Neuro]

More trouble apart from Fukushima?

Reuters Flash, March 30, 2011 at 6:11 am EDT: Smoke seen from Fukushima Daini No.1 reactor’s turbine building – Jiji

Kyodo, March 30, 2011 at 6:00 am EDT: NEWS ADVISORY: Smoke temporarily seen at Fukushima Daini turbine building

The second nuclear power plant in Fukushima TEPCO employees discovered smoke coming from Unit 1 turbine building, Nikkei, March 30, 2011:

Google Translation

TEPCO press conference office Hukuzima 30, employees discovered that the smoke generated from the Unit 1 turbine building a second nuclear power plant about 56 minutes at 17 Hukushima, announced that it has contacted the fire service. Such as color or size of the smoke is unknown. However, after the smoke has not occurred.

http://enenews.com/smoke-seen-rising-from-another-nuclear-power-plant-fukushima-daini

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rW3JMPsQb0w

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rW3JMPsQb0w


That is one ugly forecast


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLK9xy2frsY&feature=player_embedded


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12903725

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12908313

[Horn]

Checkout this dudes channel too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBYFUwywdw

http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse

[beefsteak]

Any input on these 2 questions? Many Japanese are wearing cloth type "surgical masks" for various protective reasons, indoors and outdoors. And, one can assume at least one reason is to reduce the inhalation of particulate radiation from Fukushima.

The 2 primary Questions:

1) are these barriers either washed out daily or replaced daily? Surely the radiation after 3 weeks has saturated the porosity of the cloth barrier with said radioactive particulate. If washed out, in what?

2) what is the short-term, intermediate and long-term effects on exposed eyeballs to radiation bombardment, whether particulate or unrelenting assault?
We've all seen the barrier with the glass window behind which X-Ray techs stand to zap broken bone in the radiology department at the local hospital.

My purpose is to evaluate how these 2 answers affect our preps on the West Coast? On the East Coast? (<---especially after DMac's sobering post above) In Europe? Was anything learned about this at/during/after Chernobyl?

Sure looking forward to the cogent responses to this post. THANKS!

beefsteak

[nunaem]

Smoke seen rising from another nuclear plant. Not another nuclear reactor, another nuclear PLANT. Fukushima Daini, 6 miles from Fukushima Daiichi.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/japan.daini/?hpt=T2

[beefsteak]

Here's a graphic I found useful when deciphering the various websites showing the movement of the radiation clouds as they enter US airspace. It's all those "10 to the nth" power/tiny numbers at the bottom of those interactive charts I was having difficulty comprehending in those vids from Horn and others. (Thanks again folks for the continuing addition of links to this thread!)

Hope this reference point assists others on the forum.

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af84/beefsteak_GIM/electromagchart-scale.jpg

[madscientist]

1) are these barriers either washed out daily or replaced daily? Surely the radiation after 3 weeks has saturated the porosity of the cloth barrier with said radioactive particulate. If washed out, in what?


I do not know about them being washed. But these low-grade surgical masks, while better than absolutely nothing, are very limited in what they can do to protect from radioactive particles. And they do nothing for radioactive gasses. The placebo affect is probably their greatest benefit. Less fear equals less stress equals higher ability to weather radiation exposure.




2) what is the short-term, intermediate and long-term effects on exposed eyeballs to radiation bombardment, whether particulate or unrelenting assault? We've all seen the barrier with the glass window behind which X-Ray techs stand to zap broken bone in the radiology department at the local hospital.

The eye will develop cataracts when exposed to extremely high levels of ionizing radiation, but you'll be dying anyway, so that's a secondary concern.

Most people in Japan and all people elsewhere are being exposed to radiation that will be damaging in the long term, most importantly to sensitive organs whose failure affects the whole body. But the eyes will also sustain injury, as well.




My purpose is to evaluate how these 2 answers affect our preps on the West Coast? On the East Coast? (<---especially after DMac's sobering post above) In Europe? Was anything learned about this at/during/after Chernobyl?


Limitation of exposure to radioactive materials is the key. This includes limitation of the ingestion of rainwater, or anything that has ingested it. Respirators for people outside of Japan are unnecessary. Stable iodine supplementation is an arguably sound precaution. Testing of food or water is an inarguably sound precaution. Pay closest attention to dairy and minimally-processed vegetation.

Preparations? If you can obtain one, a new or almost new, highly-sensitive radiation detector based on a Geiger-Müller tube ("Geiger Counter"). International Medcom (www.medcom.com) reportedly has their CRM-100 units currently in stock. A finely-tuned (i.e., professionally-calibrated) model CD V-700 Civil Defense Geiger Counter is a less optimal choice. Also, a means to purify water of radioactive particles. First Need purifiers are stated to do this. Black Berkey may do this. As for food, either foodstuffs that were packaged prior to this mess, or, produced & packaged in an area where the radiation is low or non-existent (e.g., the southern hemisphere!). This isn't to say all food now grown in America is poison, but you greatly increase your chances of loading up on undesired additives. Like Cesium-137.

[beefsteak]

Thanks, MS for your cogent response and links. Welcome to the thread. I'm off to study your links.

[beefsteak]

Endomement/Entombment planning underway???? FINALLY????


===================================

Japan Prepares To "Bury The Problem" Following News Of Uncontrolled Reactor 1 Chain Reactions

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/30/2011 18:19 -0400

And once again our prediction about Fukushima (namely the inevitable entombment of the entire facility in thousands of tons of concrete) is about to be realized.

Bloomberg reports that Japan will consider pouring concrete into its crippled Fukushima atomic plant to reduce radiation and contain the worst nuclear disaster in 25 years. The reason for the admission of total defeat is the gradual comprehension that the worst case scenario has come to pass: "The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna.

Not one to cover up the worst case outcome for a week, TEPCO only did so... for five days: "Radioactive chlorine found March 25 in the Unit 1 turbine building suggests chain reactions continued after the reactor shut down, physicist Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress of the James Martin Center for Non-proliferation Studies in Monterey, California, wrote in a March 28 paper." It's good thought"

Radioactive chlorine has a half-life of 37 minutes, according to the report." It appears Japan is willing to give up, and write off a several hundred square kilometer area, as nobody in their right mind will ever agree to move in next to a territory that, contrary to lies, er, promises, will not seep radioactivity in the soil and in the water. This is an unprecedented admission of defeat by the Japanese which unfortunately may be the only solution, which will certainly have major implications for the Japanese economy.

The now much expected spin on this last ditch effort:

*Tokyo Electric mixed boron, an element that absorbs neutrons and hinders nuclear fission, with emergency cooling water to prevent accidental chain reactions, Kathryn Higley, head of nuclear engineering and radiation health physics at Oregon State University in Corvallis, said in an e-mail.

Dismantling the plant and decontaminating the site may take 30 years and cost Tokyo Electric more than 1 trillion yen ($12 billion), engineers and analysts said. The government hasn’t ruled out pouring concrete over the whole facility as one way to shut it down, Edano said at a press conference.

Dumping concrete on the plant would serve a second purpose: it would trap contaminated water, said Tony Roulstone, an atomic engineer who directs the University of Cambridge’s masters program in nuclear energy.

How anyone could think the outcome would be anything but following a brief look at the latest overflight of Fukushima is beyond us.

As for what happens after a concrete tomb, which increases the surrounding pressure by orders of magnitude, is put over what now appears is still a live fision reaction, well, we won't make any predictions.

Suffice to say if historical precedent of how TEPCO has handled this situation to date is any indication, expect the sarcophagus to crack, and a 100 km "No Live Zone" radius to be extended around Fukushima in perpetuity.

=======================

Frankly, my respect for the USSR has grown by leaps and bounds, as they came to their conclusion within 72 hrs of Chernobyl blowing and started acting upon it, even though they were admittedly very tight-lipped about it all.

This 6 weeks or more before Fuku. receives Chinooks' full of sand, and concrete, ala Chernobyl partially shielded helos from the air http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q-PuSGjFHvY/SOxC9kkL9BI/AAAAAAAACEM/jAP7mQKmb5w/s1600-h/063_Chernobyl_vehicle_graveyard_33.jpg
Why not recycle/re-use these contaminated Chernobyl helos instead of wasting more US/French military resources to "do it again?"

PLUS, don't forget the 8+ half-life R.Iodine to pretty much dissipate----> well, that means it going to be safer to come out Aug. 1, 2011, (110 days from now) than it is currently.

Just last night if it was already entombed, July 1st was the earliest strategic, "emergence from Shelter In Place" target date.

But the endomement/entombment hasn't started yet.....

PS...I'd personally be more impressed if the Oregon Nuke Professor was on the board for REMOVING the "small" nuke reactor in SE Portland, on the Lewis & Clark College Campus.

Portland has just so much room to talk, so I understand. A nuke reactor on a college campus, and a city park atop a volcano closer to downtown. :o My daughter used to work for a major construction company in D.T. Portland for several years. This info comes from her.


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Look at the contaminated helo resources already available... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q-PuSGjFHvY/SOxDGtb3ZDI/AAAAAAAACEk/-hT5jiaHQG0/s1600-h/kladbishe01.jpg Just think of the temptation to scrap out those $1 mil Chinese sourced/donated concrete pumpers and fire-engine water cannons already beyond redemption in our lifetimes currently stationed at Fuku.!!! Where on that wee island are they going to park all the plutonium polluted "first responders?"


Is it possible that Chernobyl's helos have not already been scrapped and recycled into scrap metal do-overs???

http://www.artificialowl.net/2008/10/radiation-contaminated-vehicles_07.html

[sunnyandseventy]

From the same site. Check out the antenna array. :o

http://www.artificialowl.net/2008/12/abandoned-giant-duga-3-system-antenna.html

[woodman]

From the same site. Check out the antenna array. :o

http://www.artificialowl.net/2008/12/abandoned-giant-duga-3-system-antenna.html


Thanks for that link. A fascinating site for sure.

[beefsteak]

This sarcophagus video of Chernobyl is NOT terribly encouraging, but I now understand better why sand is dropped first and foremost, and most likely that will be the case now. This is incredible film footage, and a 20 year ago looking glass at what is ahead. Reminds me of studying game films before a football game. I can't begin to imagine the engineering brainpower that is brought to bear on this current catastrophe.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgrtsg_inside-chernobyl-s-sarcophagus_tech

[Antonio]

Beefsteak, this is probably the eeriest Chernobyl video of them all. I`ve never seen this before, turns out the reactor is empty and all the fuel melted thru. I really enjoyed the typical Russian sarcastic attitude towards being next to 10000 Roentgens/hr, the only thing which lets people survive emotionally in such situations is gallows humor.

[Serpo]

Beefsteak, this is probably the eeriest Chernobyl video of them all. I`ve never seen this before, turns out the reactor is empty and all the fuel melted thru. I really enjoyed the typical Russian sarcastic attitude towards being next to 10000 Roentgens/hr, the only thing which lets people survive emotionally in such situations is gallows humor.


Yea it ran out like lava but is more like cheese now

The dust coming off this is a big problem as the lava ages.

This is the reason they need to improve the sarcophagus

[lapis]

Low Levels of Radiation Found in American Milk (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/us/31milk.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss)

Tests of milk samples taken last week in Spokane, Wash., indicate the presence of radioactive iodine from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan, but at levels far below those at which action would have to be taken, the Environmental Protection Agency said on Wednesday.

Radioactive materials in liquids are measured in pico-curies per liter, and the sample, taken March 25, showed a reading of 0.8 pico-curies, the agency said. Those numbers, it said, would have to be 5,000 times higher to reach the “intervention level” set by the Food and Drug Administration.

[Antonio]

Beefsteak, this is probably the eeriest Chernobyl video of them all. I`ve never seen this before, turns out the reactor is empty and all the fuel melted thru. I really enjoyed the typical Russian sarcastic attitude towards being next to 10000 Roentgens/hr, the only thing which lets people survive emotionally in such situations is gallows humor.


Yea it ran out like lava but is more like cheese now

The dust coming off this is a big problem as the lava ages.

This is the reason they need to improve the sarcophagus

Can they build a bigger sarcophagus on top of the existing sarcophagus or it would be easier to close all the gaps in the existing thing? Seems like Chernobyl is not over yet but at least it`s cooled enough to prevent an explosion.

[Serpo]

Beefsteak, this is probably the eeriest Chernobyl video of them all. I`ve never seen this before, turns out the reactor is empty and all the fuel melted thru. I really enjoyed the typical Russian sarcastic attitude towards being next to 10000 Roentgens/hr, the only thing which lets people survive emotionally in such situations is gallows humor.


Yea it ran out like lava but is more like cheese now

The dust coming off this is a big problem as the lava ages.

This is the reason they need to improve the sarcophagus

Can they build a bigger sarcophagus on top of the existing sarcophagus or it would be easier to close all the gaps in the existing thing? Seems like Chernobyl is not over yet but at least it`s cooled enough to prevent an explosion.

Will have to seal more ,gaps and everything if dust becomes big problem.


Gaps are there on purpose, the top level of the wall is bad and that is the reason to replace.Not sure on exact plans as hasnt been investigated very far.


Will have to close gaps if dust a problem you would think

[Serpo]

On the news it said it looks like they will cover reactors with some thin cover and some goo is mixed up for the ground.








And once again our prediction about Fukushima (namely the inevitable entombment of the entire facility in thousands of tons of concrete) is about to be realized. Bloomberg reports that Japan will consider pouring concrete into its crippled Fukushima atomic plant to reduce radiation and contain the worst nuclear disaster in 25 years. The reason for the admission of total defeat is the gradual comprehension that the worst case scenario has come to pass: "The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna." Not one to cover up the worst case outcome for a week, TEPCO only did so... for five days: "Radioactive chlorine found March 25 in the Unit 1 turbine building suggests chain reactions continued after the reactor shut down, physicist Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, California, wrote in a March 28 paper." It's good thought" Radioactive chlorine has a half-life of 37 minutes, according to the report." It appears Japan is willing to give up, and write off a several hundred square kilometer area, as nobody in their right mind will ever agree to move in next to a territory that, contrary to lies, er, promises, will not seep radioactivity in the soil and in the water. This is an unprecedented admission of defeat by the Japanese which unfortunately may be the only solution, which will certainly have major implications for the Japanese economy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/

[madscientist]

"The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna.


I knew that "uncontrolled chain reactions" were occurring several days ago when the reports about neutron beams being emitted surfaced.

Burial is the only way. Sadly, it should have began on March 13th. Now that it's over two weeks later, many more people are going to lose their lives in the mission.

[madscientist]

Can they build a bigger sarcophagus on top of the existing sarcophagus or it would be easier to close all the gaps in the existing thing? Seems like Chernobyl is not over yet but at least it`s cooled enough to prevent an explosion.


The leading plan I've seen is to build a giant qounset hut, then cap the ends.

"New Safe Confinement" project:

http://www.chornobyl.in.ua/en/nsc.htm

[Neuro]

"The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna.


I knew that "uncontrolled chain reactions" were occurring several days ago when the reports about neutron beams being emitted surfaced.

Burial is the only way. Sadly, it should have began on March 13th. Now that it's over two weeks later, many more people are going to lose their lives in the mission.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Allready when the hydrogen explosions occurred the entombment should have begun. For water to be converted into hydrogen you need very high heat, and this is a sign that they didn't have control of the situation to cool down the reactors, splashing water on the outside will not sufficiently cool the core. And I don't think the story of lack of electricity to run the pumps is the real reason. Probably the cooling pipes going to the reactors were allready destroyed. But we were for 2 weeks fed the story that they were working on getting the electricity restored, and that everything was under control. This is Chernobyl x 10!

[undgrd]

EPA: Radioactive Iodine-131 levels in PA & MA rainwater “exceed maximum contaminant level permitted in drinking water” (http://enenews.com/alert-epa-radioactive-iodine-131-levels-in-rainwater-exceed-maximum-contaminant-level-permitted-in-drinking-water?replytocom=3297)

Radioactive Iodine-131 in Pennsylvania rainwater sample is 3300% above federal drinking water standard (http://enenews.com/radioactive-iodine-131-in-pennsylvania-rainwater-sample-3300-above-federal-drinking-water-standard)




Funny...at the beginning of this, the Japanese news outlet was unreliable and the US was reliable. Now that it's here, I wonder if the US is also unreliable.
:whistle

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/03/28/v-print/2610598/governor-corbett-says-public-water.html

Rainwater samples in Pennsylvania range from 40-100 picocuries per liter (pCi/L).
The federal drinking water standard for Iodine-131 is 3 pCi/L.
Governor of PA claims water is still safe to drink


Aren't these ass clowns cut from the same cloth as the ass clowns that raised the safe level once the radiation penetrated everything and would never return to the previous safe level?

[madscientist]

Now that it's here, I wonder if the US is also unreliable.


You need not wonder.

Notice that nearly all media reports state "safe" or "not of concern" levels, but will not actually cite tangible data?




Aren't these ass clowns cut from the same cloth as the ass clowns that raised the safe level once the radiation penetrated everything and would never return to the previous safe level?


Yes.

There is a safe level of fission products. It's zero.

Radioiodine 131 is solely the product of nuclear fission. Its presence indicates one should take caution. Its presence is never "safe."

[DMac]

Now that it's here, I wonder if the US is also unreliable.


You need not wonder.

Notice that nearly all media reports state "safe" or "not of concern" levels, but will not actually cite tangible data?




Aren't these ass clowns cut from the same cloth as the ass clowns that raised the safe level once the radiation penetrated everything and would never return to the previous safe level?


Yes.

There is a safe level of fission products. It's zero.

Radioiodine 131 is solely the product of nuclear fission. Its presence indicates one should take caution. Its presence is never "safe."


Remember - the air at ground zero is "safe" and "not a health concern" ::)

[Large Sarge]

Now that it's here, I wonder if the US is also unreliable.


You need not wonder.

Notice that nearly all media reports state "safe" or "not of concern" levels, but will not actually cite tangible data?




Aren't these ass clowns cut from the same cloth as the ass clowns that raised the safe level once the radiation penetrated everything and would never return to the previous safe level?


Yes.

There is a safe level of fission products. It's zero.

Radioiodine 131 is solely the product of nuclear fission. Its presence indicates one should take caution. Its presence is never "safe."


Remember - the air at ground zero is "safe" and "not a health concern" ::)

so true

so true

[G2Rad]

while I don't want any fission products inside body of my child, and thus agree with posters

yet, I trust we should not yield to panic and we should keep rational mind

Consider natural Radioactivity in human Body
Nuclide Activity .
Uranium 30 pCi (1.1 Bq)
Thorium 3 pCi (0.11 Bq)
Potassium 40 120 nCi (4.4 kBq)
Radium 30 pCi (1.1 Bq)
Carbon 14 0.4 µCi (15 kBq)
Tritium 0.6 nCi (23 Bq)
Polonium 1 nCi (37 Bq)

1 pound of rock typicaly contain 0.007 µCi (24 Bq) of Ra-226

[Cobalt]

I keep reading where people want to pour a mountain of concrete over the reactors and my first question that comes to mind is how do you remove the heat that will continue to build up.


The used fuel rods are stored in water to remove the heat that they continue to produce for several years after they have been removed from the reactor core, Fukushima has tons of the stuff sitting there with no way to remove it.

Sure the Chernobyl plant had a concrete dome built over the top but that was one reactor and look how long that took, at Fukushima we are talking about several and a couple of those may even be in worse shape then Chernobyl because of the amount of fuel they still contain.


What has me really concerned is Nobody seems to have a plan, TEPCO is still in charge much like the Gulf oil fiasco where BP called the shots and the only concerns they seemed to have had was how they were going to save the well.

We are seeing exactly the same thing play out here, the entire nuclear community appears to be sitting on the sidelines along with the governments of the world.

I am beginning to believe that what is taking place right now is something that the nuclear industry always thought of as a worse case scenario and gave a billion too one odds of ever happening.

[Large Sarge]

not a nuclear engineer here

but from my understanding boron neutralizes the radiation reactions (neutron abosorber I believe)

now if there is no real nuclear reaction occurring, due to proximity & amount of nuclear material, then there would no heat either

(again I am not a nuclear engineer, just deductive logic....)

[Large Sarge]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090319124601AAczQ5X


nuclear fission chain reaction begins when a neutron is absorbed by a Uranium-235 nucleus. The nucleus becomes unstable, and splits. This split releases energy in the form of heat, and 2-3 more neutrons which then interact with other U-235 atoms... continuing the chain reaction.

By adding neutron absorbers, we can control the number of neutrons available to interact with the U-235 fuel and essentially control the reaction rate. This keeps the reactor power from increasing out of control.

[Large Sarge]

just trying to visualize the problem

here is what I see, most all of this stuff has melted together

combined with various levels of destruction/decay of the containment facilities.

and I guess the issue I see with boron (or another neutron absorber) is that you will have a real hard time covering this stuff completely.

like a molten pile of goo, perhaps 2/3 visible from above, and you are pouring boron on it.

the 1/3 (or what ever ratio) below, will get nothing done to it.

so that will continue to react

plus the size of the molten ball, the insides will have no exposure to boron.

a rod, has a large circumference, to allow easier separation/and cooling

a molten ball of uranium/plutonium,

unless you could inject boron into the center of these things (is that possible?)

[Large Sarge]

almsot think they need a foam like structure to hold this thing, with the thought that it will likely explode....

almost like a spray on foam

concrete will shatter

foam has a little give

[Serpo]

Vehicle tries to enter Fukushima Daiichi plant, breaks into Daini plant

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/82348.html



Bodies of 1,000 victims of Japan earthquake left uncollected because of fears of high levels of radiation

By Richard Shears
Last updated at 5:50 PM on 31st March 2011
Comments (60)
Add to My Stories


Police, rescue workers and family members could be exposed to radiation
Radioactivity levels in the ocean 4,385 times above regulatory limit
Fisherman warned not to operate within 12 miles of plant
Compensation claims could top $12bn
Power firm's shares lose 80% of value - may need government bailout
President still recovering in hospital recovering from 'fatigue and stress'
U.S. sends specialist Marine unit to assist in decontamination
Traces of radioactive particles found in U.S. milk

Up to 1,000 bodies of victims of the Japan earthquake and tsunami have not been collected because of fears of high levels of radiation.

Police sources said bodies within the 12-mile evacuation zone around the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant had been 'exposed to high levels of radiation after death'.

It follows the discovery of a body on Sunday in Okuma, just three miles from the power plant, which revealed elevated levels of radiation.


Too dangerous: This aerial photograph of the Fukushima plant shows the damaged reactors three and four at the which will now be entombed in concrete after the battle to contain radiation was lost

Fears have now been raised that police officers, doctors and bereaved family members may be exposed to radiation as they go to retrieve the bodies.

Japan Today said authorities initially planned to inspect the bodies after transporting them outside the evacuation zone, but that is now being reconsidered.


More...
Desperate conditions of the Fukushima Fifty: How Japan's selfless heroes shun sleep, food and water as they battle to tame the nuclear monster
Tears as 34 surviving pupils (out of 108) return to school decimated by Japanese tsunami
Will nuclear officials ever reveal the true heroics of Japan's 'Fukushima Fifty'?
Stray dogs, abandoned cows... and the rice farmers who refuse to go: The only living things left in Japan's nuclear no-man's land
Radiation from Japan's crippled nuclear plant detected in MILK in two U.S. states


Thousands of people have been forced to leave the area around the plant, which is leaking radioactive materials as its cooling systems failed.

Cremating the bodies could spread radiation further, while burying the victims could also cause contamination in the soil.

more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371793/Japan-nuclear-crisis-Fukushima-plant-entombed-concrete-radiation-leak.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ2mqmoiIpg&feature=player_embedded

japan /chernobyl overlay
http://198.70.20.21/japan-chern-overlay.jpg

[vacuum]

Throw the bodies in the containment vessel?

In fact, what are they going to do with the top layer of dirt surrounding the facility? Use it as part of the material they bury the plant with?

[Horn]

almsot think they need a foam like structure to hold this thing, with the thought that it will likely explode....

almost like a spray on foam

concrete will shatter

foam has a little give




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnyhkBU1yaw

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5falv2UbC-0&NR=1
The same French guy whom you saw about a week ago.

[beefsteak]

Bravo!!!! What a video! There's a guy I'd like to stay in the gene pool. Are you a subscriber to his vids, Antonio? Please keep the forum posted.

WRT the earlier sarcophagus vid from Chornobyl you spoke to...obviously you were listening to the speaker as you understand Russian, yes? The subtitles didn't convey the gallows humor, but I did see it in his face, and wondered what he really had said instead of the scrubbed captions SAID he said.

One of the things I think which startled me is that human curiousity about "what's in there," "where did the hot fuel go," and most especially that steaming crack in the not yet converted to glass spillage observed by the biological robots as they called the human investigators crawling around in the reactor in an through the now empty rods. Whatever happened to the common sense expression, "let sleeping RADS lie"....

This post endomement strategic planning certainly extrapolates and feeds into the obvious delay in the non-endomement of Fuku.. WHY ON EARTH is / are there plans for continuing to poke and prod and investigate this miserable, uninhabitable site long after the effort at containment begins. Can't we just START already????

I also got the distinct impression Antonio from the narrator during that piece that it took several months to entomb Chornobyl. What is your best recollection as to how long it took to bury that reactor?

Abysmally, we can all multiple times 4. >:(

Thanks
beefsteak

[beefsteak]

almsot think they need a foam like structure to hold this thing, with the thought that it will likely explode....

almost like a spray on foam

concrete will shatter

foam has a little give





The company, Insituform has made a business out of creating rigid, resin-ized foam shells. Wonder if they are lending technical expertise to this endomement strategy? http://www.insituform.com/content/346/about-insituguard.aspx

Of course, if they are being consulted just for the sake of argument, would that ALSO mean that TEPCO is trying to STILL repair the ruptured water lines they keep talking about (the inner lines I believe they are called). These which were supposed to keep the high pressure/extremely hot circulating water in the reactor core separate from the water converted to steam in the adjacent circuit which powered the turbines. The reactor has been breached (x 4?) And the electricity to the pumps has been destroyed.
And the back up pumps didn't have the right plug ends. And now we learn the reactor water is polluted internally, and not just from particulate falling from the explosions which have been multiple.

Just thinking outloud here, but it looks to me like they are perhaps pumping again, STUPIDLY, and now have tons and tons and tons of internally polluted water. It WILL have to be converted to steam to dissapate, the radiation. Ode to joy. You can't "bury water"...at least I've never heard of that.

Anyone else?

Makes me wonder if TEPCO is more concerned about "salvaging parts for other 'on the cusp' Mark I reactors there in Japn" than they are about human life, whether there or HERE!!!

beefsteak

[Antonio]

Bravo!!!! What a video! There's a guy I'd like to stay in the gene pool. Are you a subscriber to his vids, Antonio? Please keep the forum posted.

WRT the earlier sarcophagus vid from Chornobyl you spoke to...obviously you were listening to the speaker as you understand Russian, yes? The subtitles didn't convey the gallows humor, but I did see it in his face, and wondered what he really had said instead of the scrubbed captions SAID he said.

One of the things I think which startled me is that human curiousity about "what's in there," "where did the hot fuel go," and most especially that steaming crack in the not yet converted to glass spillage observed by the biological robots as they called the human investigators crawling around in the reactor in an through the now empty rods. Whatever happened to the common sense expression, "let sleeping RADS lie"....

This post endomement strategic planning certainly extrapolates and feeds into the obvious delay in the non-endomement of Fuku.. WHY ON EARTH is / are there plans for continuing to poke and prod and investigate this miserable, uninhabitable site long after the effort at containment begins. Can't we just START already????

I also got the distinct impression Antonio from the narrator during that piece that it took several months to entomb Chornobyl. What is your best recollection as to how long it took to bury that reactor?

Abysmally, we can all multiple times 4. >:(

Thanks
beefsteak

They didn`t translate even 30% of what the guy said. He was cracking up about the fact that when they finally drilled the hole and put a camera duct-taped to a toy tank in there because robots couldn`t work in such radiation levels, they saw that the reactor was empty and they wondrered where IT went, meaning all the fuel which completely melted thru and went down. I think they finished making the sarcophagus in Dec.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
Debris removal
Chernobyl power plant in 2003 with the sarcophagus containment structureThe worst of the radioactive debris was collected inside what was left of the reactor, much of it shoveled in by liquidators wearing heavy protective gear (dubbed "bio-robots" by the military); these workers could only spend a maximum of 40 seconds at a time working on the rooftops of the surrounding buildings because of the extremely high doses of radiation given off by the blocks of graphite and other debris. The reactor itself was covered with bags of sand, lead, and boric acid dropped from helicopters: some 5,000 metric tons of material were dropped during the week that followed the accident. By December 1986, a large concrete sarcophagus had been erected to seal off the reactor and its contents.[47]

Many of the vehicles used by the "liquidators" remain parked in a field in the Chernobyl area.[

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3tbdAK9W4k
Michio Kaku`s latest.

[Antonio]

http://www.infowars.com/fukushima-beyond-point-of-no-return-as-radioactive-core-melts-through-containment-vessel/
FUBAR.

[beefsteak]

Antonio,
do you recall where the concrete and sand came from for burying Chornobyl?

[madscientist]

Finally, some "good" news...

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2011-03-31/srs-concrete-pump-heading-japan-nuclear-site

Looks like they have finally accepted defeat.


"The world’s largest concrete pump, deployed at the construction site of the U.S. government’s $4.86 billion mixed oxide fuel plant at Savannah River Site, is being moved to Japan in a series of emergency measures to help stabilize the Fukushima reactors."

"The pump was moved Wednesday from the construction site in Aiken County to a facility in Hanahan, S.C., for minor modifications, and will be trucked to Atlanta’s Hartsfield Airport, where it will be picked up by the world’s largest cargo plane, the Russian-made Antonov 225, which will fly it to Tokyo."


(the Russians to the rescue, again!)

[beefsteak]

We don't have the luxury of taking 5 years to build containment for one reactor, let alone minimum of 3 others!!! Start pouring the sand already, TEPCO!!! Radiation fused Silica makes glass, which is better than GAS and PARTICLES any day.

Hope they have more than one....Antonov225 and said gonzo sized pump, yes?

http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/397/396533/antonov225faci1.jpg

[beefsteak]

A quicky look at the Savannah River Site...home of 5 or 6 Nuke Reactors first built in 1950-51, and last one "put to rest" in 1986 I believe it was.

Is this pump already radioactive? And it's not "needed" for ongoing cleanup at Savannah River? ODE TO JOY...this just keeps getting better and better...

I keep remembering what my engineering buddy told me last weekend...concrete pumping is too slow to get this job done. Look at the human lives going to be destroyed at this pace!!!! Get out the helos already, TEPCO! LEARN FROM THE RUSSIANS, don't just borrow their aircargo transport!!!

Effectively Remote controlled concrete delivery? Don't ever want a cold patch with those pumps, either. None of this is engendering quick hope nor relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I680M9Mt8c

=================

MORE on Savannah River Site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_River_Site

[SLV^GLD]

Typical construction grade concrete pumps are flow limited for workability and safety. The laborers are in the concrete pushing it into corners and vibrating it into place. Everyone is keenly aware of the formwork in case it begins to give away. It would be extremely easy to outfit and modify a pump to deliver much higher rates of flow.

[madscientist]

Unemployed? Looking for work? Experienced with nukes? It's your lucky day!

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-wanted-u-workers-crippled-japan-nuke-plant-20110331-165506-832.html

"A U.S. recruiter is hiring nuclear power workers in the United States to help Japan gain control of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant, which has been spewing radiation."


This mission is going to require tens of thousands of laborers, all who will be at risk of anything from instant death to the enduring agony of cancers. Only altruists and fools need apply, since there is no amount of money worth the consequences.

[osoab]

Would cementing the ground underneath the reactors be possible? If ground water contamination is going to be a major factor, why not pump grout into the ground? http://www.pressuregrout.com/services.htm

Even if some water my penetrate the layer, it would stop most of water. A layer 30-50 feet thick is what I am thinking.

[Antonio]

Antonio,
do you recall where the concrete and sand came from for burying Chornobyl?




I`ve no idea but remember that Russia is the biggest country with over half of worlds resources while Japan is tiny with virtually no resources so we cannot blame them for being slow. This is going to require a huge international effort and many foreign lives will be lost in the aftermath.
We need Winston Wolf there ASAP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPsHKpti48

[madscientist]

I`ve no idea but remember that Russia is the biggest country with over half of worlds resources while Japan is tiny with virtually no resources so we cannot blame them for being slow. This is going to require a huge international effort and many foreign lives will be lost in the aftermath.


Japan is filthy rich, and they can buy anything they need. Trouble is, their corporate culture is one where the bottom line always comes first. Worse than in America. TEPCO's stock had to collapse before any responsible measures came into play.

[Antonio]

I`ve no idea but remember that Russia is the biggest country with over half of worlds resources while Japan is tiny with virtually no resources so we cannot blame them for being slow. This is going to require a huge international effort and many foreign lives will be lost in the aftermath.


Japan is filthy rich, and they can buy anything they need. Trouble is, their corporate culture is one where the bottom line always comes first. Worse than in America. TEPCO's stock had to collapse before any responsible measures came into play.


They will buy but think of the logistics, it`ll take time to deliver all the stuff there. In Russia all they had to do is one phone call but it almost bankrupted the country. The whole USSR was working on this disaster. I can`t imagine what the current shit will do to the Jap and world`s economy.
It may sound cruel but people are replaceable while the oceans if polluted are not, at least not in our lifetimes.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Japan nuclear crisis: 'Fukushima 50' face new setback


The "Fukushima Fifty," the group of Japanese workers battling the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl in 1986, faced a new setback following a spike in pressure at one of the reactors they are trying to contain.


It occurred in a holding vessel around reactor three at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant, and forced engineers to consider releasing more radioactive material into the atmosphere. A similar tactic produced explosions during the early days of the crisis.

Officials warned that a release of radiation this time would be larger than in previous releases because more nuclear fuel had degraded.

They said the process could involve the emission of a cloud dense with iodine, as well as the radioactive elements krypton and xenon.

Japan’s health ministry said it had advised residents in Iitate, a village of about 6,000 19 miles northwest of the nuclear plant, not to drink tap water due to the levels of radioactive iodine which were three times the normal level.

Tepco, the plant operator, temporarily suspended the venting plan after pressure inside the reactor stopped climbing, but said it was still at a high level.

Hikaru Kuroda, a Tepco manager, said temperatures inside reactor three, which contains highly toxic plutonium, had reached 572F (300C) but had "stabilised" after seawater was continuously pumped in to keep it cool.

In a positive development workers were close to restoring the electricity supply to the plant's six reactors, which they hope will allow them to restart the cooling systems knocked out by the earthquake on March 11.

The Japanese government confirmed the entire Fukushima Daiichi complex will be scrapped once the disaster is contained.

Japanese officials also admitted they were unprepared for the nuclear disaster and failed to hand out iodine pills to people living in the area.

They gave potassium iodide, which helps to reduce the risk of thyroid cancer, to those living within a 12 mile (20km) radius of the plant only three days after an explosion which should have triggered an immediate distribution.

Speaking in the city of Fukushima Kazuma Yokota, a safety official, said: "We should have made this decision and announced it sooner. It is true that we had not foreseen a disaster of these proportions. We had not practised or trained for something this bad. We must admit that we were not fully prepared."

The effects of the radioactive leaks continued to spread yesterday with small amounts of radiation found in spinach and milk from nearby farms, in tap water in Tokyo, and in rainfall and dust over a wider area. None of the levels were harmful to human health.

Taiwan became the first country to report low levels of radiation in Japanese imports, in a batch of contaminated fava beans.

Yukio Edano, Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary, said: "Our desperate efforts to prevent the situation worsening are making certain progress. But we must not underestimate this situation, and we are not being optimistic that things will suddenly improve." Tepco's president has issued a public apology for "causing such great concern and nuisance." Ten days before the disaster the company admitted to Japan's nuclear safety watchdog that it had failed to inspect 33 pieces of equipment at the plant.

A power board distributing electricity to a reactor's temperature control valves had not been examined for 11 years.

Two nuclear safety agencies said: "Long-term inspection plans and maintenance management were inadequate."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8393805/Japan-nuclear-crisis-Fukushima-50-face-new-setback.html

[beefsteak]

Thanks LibGuard,
I went and checked for myself the dataline on your post, and it is dated Today, April 1. So much of it sounds exactly like it did a couple weeks ago. It's obvious something nasty is about to happen to #3....again.

Again, sure do thank you for the headszup.

beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Would cementing the ground underneath the reactors be possible? If ground water contamination is going to be a major factor, why not pump grout into the ground? http://www.pressuregrout.com/services.htm

Even if some water my penetrate the layer, it would stop most of water. A layer 30-50 feet thick is what I am thinking.


I've been thinking about your question, osoab. And I don't know the answer. But I'll tell you what I am thinking.

After viewing the Chornobyl vid yesterday posted here yesterday which Antonio helped translate for the thread, I was sure wishing I could see some "sub-basements" in the Fuku. Mark I reactor designs, like I saw at Chornobyl.
The meltdown being encased in fused glass as he sought lower and lower elevations was rather comforting. I wish I could see an accurate depiction of what Fuku. 1,2,3,4 look like "underneath" again.

And like you, I'd like to understand a little more of the "geology" under this Fuku. site. Being so close to the ocean, it's possible the water table is pretty high, yes? They may not have 40'-50' to work with below the bottom of the structures. :dunno

Any help on this "current, graphic depiction thing of how Fuku. is built underneath, and is it the same for all 4 units? (x4?)

[beefsteak]

PLEASE notice the parsed wording of this 4/1/2011 KYODO newsbrief:


URGENT: Radioactivity 10,000 times the limit found from groundwater: TEPCO

TOKYO, April 1, Kyodo

A radioactive substance about 10,000 times the limit was detected from groundwater around the No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Thursday.

A Tokyo Electric official said the radiation level is ''extremely high.''

==Kyodo


"A Radioactive substance" means a SOLID or an agglomeration of some coagulated type has been found in the ground water, not in WATER ON THE GROUND(S) of the site. One of the experts on the news ystdy went to great lengths to speak to the degredation of the cobalt bearings in the reactors, especially of this vintage. And he said degredation results in solids in the "inner water loop that is not intended to ever be breached" that...if "it" ever got out...would be the dreaded Cobalt solid contamination. We'll have to wait and see when that is confirmed or denied. I can't conceive at this moment how ground porosity would permit actual visual id of a cobalt "particle" in polluted groundwater. But it is in that loop simply because of age of the reactors according to that expert on video.


Again, it would be helpful to know the geology under the 4 reactors in various states of meltdown. First water is "how deep" that close to the ocean?

Could this be the "unnamed (solid) substance?" Tis certain it is radioactive. And if they found it, that means they can see it. And they can visually tell if there is more than 1 particle is emitting this tremendous radiation being reported in the GROUNDWATER.

Discovered IN GROUND WATER...not spilled water on the grounds.

No wonder Kyodo news agency put an "URGENT" tag on this update.

The time stamp on this URL is evidently 16:46 hrs KYODO/Japan time, April 1st, 2011. http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82382.html

[Neuro]

In a positive development workers were close to restoring the electricity supply to the plant's six reactors, which they hope will allow them to restart the cooling systems knocked out by the earthquake on March 11.
For fucks sake are they still touting that line! I think it is more likely that Cinderella will come grommets inside of the reactor, reverse the meltdown and repair the reactors... Ridiculous!

[Serpo]

This is all we need ....more water.. :conf:


Huge Pumps From US to Help in Japan Nuclear Crisis
Mar 31, 2011 – 10:30 PM

ATLANTA -- Two gigantic concrete pumps - described as the largest such equipment in the world - will soon be on their way to join the machinery being used to pour water on damaged reactors in Japan's nuclear crisis, company officials said Thursday.

The two machines are normally used to spray concrete for new skyscrapers, bridges and other massive construction projects.

The machines are now being retrofitted in North Charleston, S.C., and Sante Fe Springs, Calif. That will allow them to spray water instead of concrete on the nuclear reactors, said Kelly Blickle, a spokeswoman at Putzmeister America Inc. in Sturtevant, Wis. The German firm manufactured the equipment.


http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/31/huge-pumps-from-us-to-help-in-japan-nuclear-crisis/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3B-KjZ7vk

[beefsteak]

Neuro, I hear your frustration, brother!
Sure makes me wonder why they are trying to get pumps going when it is highly probably the inner loop plumbing is damaged, perhaps leaking like a sieve. Now that you mention it, Neuro, I don't think I've heard anyone address the condition of the plumbing...just distraction of "extension chord reconnection" efforts. Did you see the Gunderson guy talk of "feed and bleed?" At this point, I fail to see how feed and bleed from Chinese gifted cranes, accompanied by the now hopelessly radioactive firetrucks w/their water cannons is somehow going to be measurably improved by 2 modified concrete pumps. What a rabbit hole!

Serpo,
that was a solid info vid. I'm deeply appreciative of you finding posting that.

Solid info from the field of engineering has been in short supply thanks to our wimpy MSM over here. And I'm careful about how much I bug my engineering buddy who is always swamped with some project or another.

I noticed one of your prior shared vid sources is the contributor to UTube of this Gunderson/Fairewinds series. Wish I knew how to bookmark contributors on UTube. Are there more of this Gunderson guy talking vids that you have found?

I'm sure interested in hearing more from him. Non-frenetic delivery, just straight talk. Beats Alex Jones delivery, that be a fact! Plus, no commercial hawking of religion or thyroid treatments by that Gunderson fellow.

beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Interesting article posted on Fox, which I just found, dateline ystdy:


Japan's Nuclear Rescuers: 'Inevitable Some of Them May Die Within Weeks'

By Dominic Di-Natale

Published March 31, 2011

| FoxNews.com

Workers at the disaster-stricken Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan say they expect to die from radiation sickness as a result of their efforts to bring the reactors under control, the mother of one of the men tells Fox News.

The so-called Fukushima 50, the team of brave plant workers struggling to prevent a meltdown to four reactors critically damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, are being repeatedly exposed to dangerously high radioactive levels as they attempt to bring vital cooling systems back online.

Speaking tearfully through an interpreter by phone, the mother of a 32-year-old worker said: “My son and his colleagues have discussed it at length and they have committed themselves to die if necessary to save the nation.

“He told me they have accepted they will all probably die from radiation sickness in the short term or cancer in the long-term.”

The woman spoke to Fox News on the condition of anonymity because, she said, plant workers had been asked by management not to communicate with the media or share details with family members in order to minimize public panic.

Japan is dealing with a major nuclear crisis following the deadly magnitude 9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami.

She could not confirm if her son or other workers were already suffering from radiation sickness. But she added: “They have concluded between themselves that it is inevitable some of them may die within weeks or months. They know it is impossible for them not to have been exposed to lethal doses of radiation.”

The plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (or TEPCO), says medical teams conduct regular testing on the restoration workers for signs of contamination-related illness. It claims there have been no further cases following the three workers who were treated last week after coming into direct contact with radioactive water. There are no reports of new members of the Fukushima 50 developing radiation sickness.

Although two suffered radiation burns to their legs and ankles and absorbed radiation internally, they have since been released from the hospital and are regularly being checked for signs of any deterioration in their condition, says TEPCO.

The company has pledged to improve the tough conditions for workers who stay on the site due to the short turnaround of shifts on safety grounds.

Some restorers directly tackling the problems with the fuel rod containment chambers are limited to 15 minutes at a time inside the reactor buildings or working near highly radioactive substances, including traces of plutonium that have appeared at numerous locations within the plant complex.

Living conditions for the hundreds of employees staying within the plant’s perimeter to support the restoration efforts are also equally as hazardous, say the authorities.

Banri Kaieda, the interior minister who also acts as a deputy head of the nuclear disaster task force jointly set up by the government and TEPCO, said 500 to 600 people were at one point lodging in a building within the complex. He told a media conference it was “not a situation in which minimum sleep and food could be ensured.”

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says that workers were only eating two basic meals of crackers and dried rice a day, and sleeping in conference rooms and hallways in the building.

According to Kaieda, not all of the workers had apparently been provided with lead sheeting to shield themselves from potentially radiation-contaminated floors while sleeping.

“My son has been sleeping on a desk because he is afraid to lie on the floor. But they say high radioactivity is everywhere and I think this will not save him,” said the mother of the worker who spoke to Fox News.

Meanwhile, bad weather has delayed TEPCO's plans to limit the spread of radiation from the plant. It has intended to spray a water-soluble resin to affix radioactive particles and substances to the debris sent scattered across the devastated complex to prevent it from being dispersed by wind and moisture.

It will now attempt on Friday test the synthetic solution using remote control vehicles to spray an area of 95,000 square yards at reactors four and six. The company hopes the resin will provide sufficient protection to allow restoration workers better access to areas critical to restoring the reactors' cooling systems to prevent a meltdown.

Growing pools of dangerously radioactive water and deposits of plutonium have been inhibiting access to important parts of the plant.

A large sea tanker is also being prepared to siphon and ship the water from the plant after it was discovered that run-off containers and drainage tanks were almost full at three of the most critical reactors.

The government says it has yet to be decided where they will dispose of that water


=====================
Two thoughts jumped out at me.
One, if the nuke industry doesn't know what to do with "spent" fuel rods, what in thunder makes them think they have a solution to 200 Tons of radioactive water a day in the Gunderson Feed and Bleed update posted by Serpo earlier?

Two, crackers and dried rice rations a day? what is with that? Crackers for nausea I assume.

And they are recruiting foreigners to come work at this site? Not for crackers and dried rice!!!, I don't care how good the pay is. This admitted diet regime is shocking.

beefsteak

[woodman]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/01/3179487.htm

But one expert says the radiation leaks will be ongoing and it could take 50 to 100 years before the nuclear fuel rods have completely cooled and been removed.

"The final thing is that the reactors will have to be closed and the fuel removed, and that is 50 to 100 years away.

"It means that the workers and the site will have to be intensely controlled for a very long period of time."

But Laurence Williams, Professor of Nuclear Safety at England's University of Central Lancashire and the former head nuclear regulator for the UK, is relatively comfortable with the situation.

"I have been monitoring it for the last couple of weeks and [the] three reactors seem to be more or less unchanged from initially when they got into the seawater flowing into them," he said.

"We don't know exactly the state of the fuel in those reactors but looking at the data, the pressures and temperatures look fairly stable over the last couple of weeks.

"My view is that as there hasn't been any sort of major catastrophic release of radioactivity, if they can continue to get the fresh water into the reactors and cool them, the decay heat is now fairly stabilising.

"It will take some time before it disappears but so far, so good. But it will take some time to bring under control."

Both experts agree capping the damaged reactors with concrete is not an option.

[madscientist]

ATLANTA -- Two gigantic concrete pumps - described as the largest such equipment in the world - will soon be on their way to join the machinery being used to pour water on damaged reactors in Japan's nuclear crisis, company officials said Thursday.

The two machines are normally used to spray concrete for new skyscrapers, bridges and other massive construction projects.

The machines are now being retrofitted in North Charleston, S.C., and Sante Fe Springs, Calif. That will allow them to spray water instead of concrete on the nuclear reactors, said Kelly Blickle, a spokeswoman at Putzmeister America Inc. in Sturtevant, Wis. The German firm manufactured the equipment.


I hope the "spray water" aspect is a cover story. Every day these reactors spew is more poison for all of us.

[gunDriller]

Two thoughts jumped out at me.
One, if the nuke industry doesn't know what to do with "spent" fuel rods, what in thunder makes them think they have a solution to 200 Tons of radioactive water a day in the Gunderson Feed and Bleed update posted by Serpo earlier?

there's a lot more than 200 tons of water in the groundwater.

and they have already admitted that they are in a state of "partial melt-down".

practically unlimited fuel source + groundwater = explosion ... that's why they use nuclear power to heat steam to power turbines to make electricity in the first place.

i would say they are in a race to cap the reactors & fuel storage facilities to try and contain the explosions that will occur as "partially" melted down reactor fuel breaches the containment vessel.

they are moving a humongous concrete pump from the US East Coast to Japan right now.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2011-03-31/srs-concrete-pump-heading-japan-nuclear-site

"SRS pump will head to Japan"

"The world's largest concrete pump, deployed at the construction site of the U.S. government's $4.86 billion mixed oxide fuel plant at Savannah River Site, is being moved to Japan in a series of emergency measures to help stabilize the Fukushima reactors.

"The bottom line is, the Japanese need this particular unit worse than we do, so we're giving it up," said Jerry Ashmore, whose company, Augusta-based Ashmore Concrete Contractors, Inc., is the concrete supplier for the MOX facility.

The 190,000-pound pump, made by German-based Putzmeister has a 70-meter boom and can be controlled remotely, making it suitable for use in the unpredictable and highly radioactive environment of the doomed nuclear reactors in Japan, he said.

"There are only three of these pumps in the world, of which two are suited for this work, so we have to get it there as soon as we can," Ashmore said in an interview Thursday. "Time is very much a factor."

The pump was moved Wednesday from the construction site in Aiken County to a facility in Hanahan, S.C., for minor modifications, and will be trucked to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, where it will be picked up by the world's largest cargo plane, the Russian-made Antonov 225, which will fly it to Tokyo."


big multi-national effort. that part is encouraging ... sort of ... they're cooperating ... but that may also indicate how serious the situation is.

""Our understanding is, they are preparing to go to next phase and it will require a lot of concrete," Ashmore said, noting that the 70-meter pump can move 210 cubic yards of concrete per hour."

that sounds like a lot of concrete.


about Chernobyl -

"The reactor itself was covered with bags of sand, lead, and boric acid dropped from helicopters: some 5,000 metric tons of material were dropped during the week that followed the accident."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

of course - that was just for one reactor.


i have a feeling Murphy will win this one. also that they will upgrade the disaster to 7 a little later, for example waiting another week ... they're trying not to crash the world economy.

[osoab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajHeb9kqjuo&feature=player_embedded

[beefsteak]

Scholarly, think-tank type article on Potential from deliberate sabotage/attack on spent fuel pools, presented in 2003.

Link below the excerpt quoted (added emphasis is mine.) Most excellent biblio at the bottom of the linked entire piece.



"Radiological Terrorism: Sabotage of Spent Fuel Pools"

Journal Article, INESAP: International Network of Engineers and Scientists Against Proliferation, issue 22, pages 75-78

December 2003

Author: Hui Zhang, Senior Research Associate, Project on Managing the Atom

Belfer Center Programs or Projects (HARVARD): International Security; Managing the Atom; Science, Technology, and Public Policy



The September 11 large-scale terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon show the threat of nuclear and radiological terrorism is real. A successful attack or sabotage on a nuclear facility could cause the most potentially devastating radiological release into the atmosphere. While many people focus their concerns on the vulnerability of reactor containment buildings, an increasing number of nuclear experts are concerned about the spent fuel pools (SFP) which would be more vulnerable than the reactor containment building, because most SFPs are housed in far less robust structures than the reactor containment vessels. Moreover, a SFP would contain much more radiation than a reactor core. [1] In particular, one major concern is the vulnerability of the pools' cooling systems. In absence of cooling water, the spent fuel would overheat, and the fuel-cladding could melt or catch fire in some cases. Thus it could release radioactive substances to the environment.

In fact, a number of countries are taking spent nuclear fuel vulnerabilities very seriously. For example, France has installed anti-aircraft missiles around its spent fuel ponds at its reprocessing facility. However, some scholars and experts argue that these nuclear facilities could not be vulnerable to terrorist attacks.


Risk of Spent Nuclear Fuel at Reactor Pools

In this paper, I will explain the potential consequences of the sabotage of spent fuel pools and the vulnerabilities of these pools to terrorist attacks. Finally, I will suggest some security measures to protect these spent fuel facilities.


Storage of Spent Nuclear Fuel

Each year, a typical 1 GWe light water reactor (LWR) discharges about 20 to 30 metric tonnes of heavy metal (tHM) in spent nuclear fuel (SNF). The SNF is very radioactive.

Typically, each tonne SNF would emit above 200 million curies of activity at the time of reactor shutdown [2]. Thus, the SNF is very hot.

For example, one day after shutdown, 30 t LWR spent fuel has a thermal output of about 6 MW. [3]

To prevent the spent fuel from melting, once discharged from the reactor, it is placed on storage racks in rectangular pools, typically 10-20 m long, 7-15 m wide, and 12-13 m deep. [4] The pool is usually made of reinforced concrete walls four to five feet thick with stainless steel liners. Pools at pressurized water reactors (PWR, the most common reactors) are usually outside the reactor containment building and partially or fully embedded in the ground.

Most of the spent fuel pools at boiling water reactors (BWR) are housed in reactor buildings and above ground. A pool can have a 15 to 30 year storage (i.e. about 400-800 t for a PWR) of SNFs discharged from a reactor. Spent fuel pools could hold about 10 times more long-lived radioactivity than a reactor core. After a period of cooling time, the spent fuel can be removed from the wet pool for a dry storage or reprocessing.

Today, about 10,000 tHM spent fuel is generated annually. Over 150,000 tHM spent fuels were in storage by 2000. More than 90% of the spent fuel in the world today is stored in pools at reactor sites or in away-from-reactor facilities. [5] The abandoning or delaying of reprocessing and the absence of established geologic repositories through the world have resulted in an increase of spent fuel stored at the power plants or in central repositories.

Moreover, most reactors were built with an originally planned reprocessing program that made these reactors have much less pool storage capacity. Thus, in many cases, these pools are approaching or have exceeded their original design capacity. To compensate, in practice, many reactor operators in the world are "re-racking" the spent fuel in the pool so that the spent fuel is stored more densely.

For example, at most operating reactors in the United States, the 're-rack' of spent fuel has been done. As discussed below, these dense packed pools would be more vulnerable to a pool fire and cause a large amount of radioactive release.


The Consequence of Cesium-137 Release

A 400 t PWR pool holds about 10 times more long-lived radioactivity than a reactor core.

A radioactive release from such a pool would cause catastrophic consequences. One major concern is the fission product cesium-137 (Cs-137), which made a major contribution (about three quarters) to the long-term radiological impact of the 1986 Chernobyl accident.

A spent fuel pool would contain tens of million curies of Cs-137. Cs-137 has a 30 year half-life; it is relatively volatile and a potent land contaminant.

In comparison, the April 1986 Chernobyl accident released about 2 Mega Curies (MCi) Cs-137 into the atmosphere from the core of the 1,000 MWe unit 4. It is estimated that over 100,000 residents were permanently evacuated because of contamination by Cs-137.The total area of the radiation-control zone is about 10,000 km², in which the contamination level is greater than 15 Ci/km² of Cs-137. [6]

A typical 1 GWe PWR core contains about 80 t fuels. Each year about one third of the core fuel is discharged into the pool. A pool with 15 year storage capacity will hold about 400 t spent fuel. To estimate the Cs-137 inventory in the pool, for example, we assume the Cs137 inventory at shutdown is about 0.1 MCi/tU with a burn-up of 50,000 MWt-day/tU, thus the pool with 400 t of ten year old SNF would hold about 33 MCi Cs-137. [7]

Assuming a 50-100% Cs137 release during a spent fuel fire, [8] the consequence of the Cs-137 exceed those of the Chernobyl accident 8-17 times (2MCi release from Chernobyl). Based on the wedge model, the contaminated land areas can be estimated. [9]

For example, for a scenario of a 50% Cs-137 release from a 400 t SNF pool, about 95,000 km² (as far as 1,350 km) would be contaminated above 15 Ci/km² (as compared to 10,000 km² contaminated area above 15 Ci/km² at Chernobyl). Thus, it is necessary to take security measures to prevent such an event from happening.


Vulnerability of Spent Fuel Pools

Until today (2003), no accident or sabotage happened to cause the release of radioactivity from a spent fuel pool. However, many scientists and nuclear security experts are very concerned about a significant release of radioactivity by a possible spent fuel fire, especially in the case of dense packing of pools - a method that has been used by many reactor operators worldwide including for most pools in the US.

The most serious risk is the loss of pool water, which could expose spent fuel to the air, thus leading to an exothermal reactions of the zirconium cladding, which would catch fire at about 900 °C. (1652 °F) Thus, the Cs-137 in the rods could be dispersed into the surrounding atmosphere.

Based on a Technical Study of Spent Fuel Pool Accident Risk at Decommissioning Nuclear Power Plant in 2000, the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) conceded that "the possibility of a zirconium fire cannot be dismissed even many years after a final reactor shutdown." [10] Recently, a number of nuclear scientists outside the government agency arrived at the same conclusion.

For example, the new technical study Reducing the hazards from stored spent power-reactor fuel in the United States by R. Alvarez et al. [11] points out that "In the absence of any cooling, a freshly discharged core generating decay heat at a rate of 100 kWt/tU would heat up adiabatically within an hour to about 600 °C, where the zircaloy cladding would be expected to rupture under the internal pressure from helium and fission product gases, and then to about 900 °C where the cladding would begin to burn in air."

In addition, although the cooler fuel could not ignite on its own, many scientists are concerned that fire from freshly spent fuel could spread to adjacent cooler fuel by some mechanisms, including zircaloy oxidation propagation. [12]

Finally, even for the case of non-dense-packed pools, there could still be some sabotage scenarios that cause a significant amount of radioactive release as discussed in the following section.

Thus, a loss of pool cooling could cause a pool fire. Then the question is how such a loss of pool water is brought about. A terrorist group could cause a loss of cooling water in a number of ways, such as,

* causing the loss of cooling, thus boiling the water off through the failure of pumps or valves, through the destruction of heat exchangers, or through a loss of power for the cooling system. It is estimated that, in the case of a loss of cooling, the time it would take for a spent fuel pool to boil down to near the top of the spent fuel would be as short as several hours, depending on the cooling time of the discharge fuel. [13] Moreover, in the case of terrorist attack, the operators of nuclear facilities might not have enough time to provide emergency cooling.

* causing the drainage of coolant inventory by piping failures or siphoning, and by gate and seal failures. Furthermore, a heavy load including a fuel transport cask could be dropped in the pools thus causing a collapse of the pool floor and a water leak. As reported, "The analysis exclusively considered drops severe enough to catastrophically damage the SFP so that pool inventory would be lost rapidly and it would be impossible to refill the pool using onsite or offsite resources. There is no possibility of mitigating the damage, only preventing it." "The staff assumes a catastrophic heavy load drop (creating a large leakage path in the pool) would lead directly to a zirconium fire." [14]

* puncturing the pool and causing a drainage by suicide airplanes, missiles, or other explosives. For the case that spent fuel pools are located above ground level, a suicide airplane could breach the pool bottom or sidewalls and cause a complete or partial drainage. A US NRC study estimated that a large aircraft (one weighing more than 5.4 tonnes) would have a 45% probability of penetrating the five-foot thick concrete wall of a spent fuel pool. The NRC staff has decided that it is prudent to assume that a turbine shaft of a large aircraft engine could penetrate and drain a spent fuel storage pool. [15]

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/364/radiological_terrorism.html

[Serpo]

Neuro, I hear your frustration, brother!
Sure makes me wonder why they are trying to get pumps going when it is highly probably the inner loop plumbing is damaged, perhaps leaking like a sieve. Now that you mention it, Neuro, I don't think I've heard anyone address the condition of the plumbing...just distraction of "extension chord reconnection" efforts. Did you see the Gunderson guy talk of "feed and bleed?" At this point, I fail to see how feed and bleed from Chinese gifted cranes, accompanied by the now hopelessly radioactive firetrucks w/their water cannons is somehow going to be measurably improved by 2 modified concrete pumps. What a rabbit hole!

Serpo,
that was a solid info vid. I'm deeply appreciative of you finding posting that.

Solid info from the field of engineering has been in short supply thanks to our wimpy MSM over here. And I'm careful about how much I bug my engineering buddy who is always swamped with some project or another.

I noticed one of your prior shared vid sources is the contributor to UTube of this Gunderson/Fairewinds series. Wish I knew how to bookmark contributors on UTube. Are there more of this Gunderson guy talking vids that you have found?

I'm sure interested in hearing more from him. Non-frenetic delivery, just straight talk. Beats Alex Jones delivery, that be a fact! Plus, no commercial hawking of religion or thyroid treatments by that Gunderson fellow.

beefsteak



Tracked down this web site just now ..............http://www.fairewinds.com/ looks very good and the same guy has put out a new update.

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/21789121" width="400" height="226" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/21789121">Untitled</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user6415562">Fairewinds Associates</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

[Horn]

This sarcophagus video of Chernobyl is NOT terribly encouraging, but I now understand better why sand is dropped first and foremost, and most likely that will be the case now. This is incredible film footage, and a 20 year ago looking glass at what is ahead. Reminds me of studying game films before a football game. I can't begin to imagine the engineering brainpower that is brought to bear on this current catastrophe.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgrtsg_inside-chernobyl-s-sarcophagus_tech


Looks like Chernobyl didn't have that large circulatory pool of cooling water under it that Fukushima has.

http://tylerbaird.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fukushima_reactor.png

[lapis]

Special from the Chris Martenson site: "EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS: Latest Satellite Imagery From Fukushima Tells Sobering Tale. (http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/breaking-latest-satellite-imagery-fukushima/55711)" Hat tip to Zero Hedge, for being on the ball with this topic.

Noting that the press has largely turned its resources off of the Fukushima complex, and needing up-to-date information on the status of the damage control efforts there, we secured the most up-to-date satellite photo from DigitalGlobe (dated March 31st), which we analyze below. This is the first photo of the damaged reactor site at Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility made available to the public in over a week. That means you, our readers, are the first public eyes anywhere to see this photo.

[beefsteak]

Osoab,
THAT video covertly taken by either driver or passenger was HORRIFIC. Sure put a LOT of info into "size perspective." At least it is hard for me to conceptualize size / extent of damage from aerial footage only.

Do you know if it is possible to pull up the GPS on that pc of film footage? I understand all that stuff is now GEOTAGGED and viewable by those who wish to pursue the type of phone used, time of day shot, etc., details supporting that film footage. I used to know, but it's been several months since I needed to perform that task, and now I've pretty much forgotten.

Thanks again for that most valuable vid. Very Very powerful. And ugly. Kind of makes one wonder what else is "going to get out" in the way of info with several facing imminent demise due to their intense radiation exposure. I figure that was NOT a sightseer taking that vid...

beefsteak

[woodman]

They will have to find something to displace the groundwater. It will have to be dense and not susceptible to exposion like water when it contacts the heated molten core. They will need to form a barrier with it. Kind of like injecting poison around a house to form a barrier of poison to keep termites from entering. It will have to be under continuing pressure to keep ground water out.

[madscientist]

Special from the Chris Martenson site: "EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS: Latest Satellite Imagery From Fukushima Tells Sobering Tale. (http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/breaking-latest-satellite-imagery-fukushima/55711)"


My plan for Fukushima:

Step 1: Use Main Battle Tanks with dozers attached, to build a wide berm (see below, in brown) around the entire facility, surrounding the reactor buildings and the turbine halls (actually, the turbine calls can just be buried), using local earth. The MBTs are necessary, since their armor will offer significant protection from gamma radiation, and they are NBC capable, so no special environmental measures are needed.

Step 2: (initial measures can be concurrent with Step 1) Use concrete pump booms, such as those being flown in, as well as shielded aircraft, to bury the reactor buildings. The shielded aircraft (i.e., helicopters) can drop boron & sand, perhaps even shredded tin, if aerial access to the reactor(s) are possible, as recommended by a Ukrainian science team, and then boriated concrete can be poured on.

Step 3: again using MBTs, push earth over the concrete.

Step 4: cover all the earth with concrete, to protect from future erosion.

I realize that this will be among the most phenomenal engineering and earth-moving efforts ever undertaken, both because of the hazards of radiation, as well as the speed in which it must be done. The engineers & operating engineers I know can do it, if the politicians and corporate types let them do it. This must be done, starting last week. The sooner the better. Concerns about the continuing heat of the reactor damaging the work are outweighed by the dangers of continuous spewing of fission products. If the concrete cracks, it can be sealed again. The "dirt sandwich" will offer some relief to any built-up pressure, as well, and ideas for drilling under the site can also be explored. But the radioactive release must be stopped, now, or hundreds of square miles of Japan will be rendered uninhabitable, and tens of millions of people in Japan and across the Pacific shores will be subjected to numerous health effects.

[madscientist]

They will have to find something to displace the groundwater. It will have to be dense and not susceptible to exposion like water when it contacts the heated molten core. They will need to form a barrier with it. Kind of like injecting poison around a house to form a barrier of poison to keep termites from entering. It will have to be under continuing pressure to keep ground water out.


What about a polymer foam? I'd suggest aerogel, but that's incredibly expensive to make, hard to make in large quantities, and getting it where it needs to be would be difficult.

[Horn]

I would dig a wide trench the length of the plant, line it with somekind of polymer, than demolish it into the trench.

[Glass]

For a madscientist you make a lot of sense. Seems like a plan.

I don't have a thumbs up thing. but if I did :D