High Ranking US Major General Exposes September 11 High

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W0xzsbSbVUEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W0xzsbSbVUE

[joboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sdg5NzMUF4&feature=player_embedded

[Glass]

a good summary for people to follow when starting out on the road of 911 awareness. Some good points to go and investigate.

[mamboni]

Good video. The general should talk to this man: Israel did 9/11 - Dr. Alan Sabrosky - U.S Army War College

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjJFHZ10C5I

[joboo]

Pretty much sums it up...

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

The whole debate over what hit it is essentially meaningless. Zero evidence for a missile, and all kinds for an airplane.

There are guys admitting to specifically documenting it, and others caught in vans with bomb residues.

[General of Darkness]

Pretty much sums it up...

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

The whole debate over what hit it is essentially meaningless. Zero evidence for a missile, and all kinds for an airplane.

There are guys admitting to specifically documenting it, and others caught in vans with bomb residues.

How many times do I have to do this?

http://www.digitalsportscene.net/forum/images/smilies/gtfo.gif

[Norweger]

http://christconquers.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/9-11-mural-van.jpg

Urban MOving SyStems IncorporAteD

[mamboni]

How many times do I have to do this?

http://www.digitalsportscene.net/forum/images/smilies/gtfo.gif

Don't feed the troll - it's just Halo doing his job: disrupt and destroy any thread revealing 911 truth. Ignore him, please.

[Norweger]

Fucking subhuman.

[joboo]

How many times do I have to do this?



As many times as you feel like wasting your breath Dr Dingus.

The information is at the link. Counter it. There is zero evidence for a missile. It's retardation based on the lies from Loose Change, and perpetuated by Alex Jonestard.

Read, and learn:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

Feel free to evaluate the site for how "anti" you think it is.
http://911research.wtc7.net/

[joboo]

The claim is he was able to prove it was a missile. Where did he prove anything aside from just giving his opinion about what he thinks it was?

[woodman]

The claim is he was able to prove it was a missile. Where did he prove anything aside from just giving his opinion about what he thinks it was?

Hundreds of professional pilots have voiced their opinion that nobody, not even a trained pilot could have pulled off the manuever the government claims this mystery jet, flown by untrained personell, supposedly pulled off. So who are we supposed to believe, Joboo and the lying government duo-citizens, or our own common sense?

[vacuum]

The point of this thread is that a retired general of 32 years is saying it wasn't done by terrorists.

[Serpo]

The claim is he was able to prove it was a missile. Where did he prove anything aside from just giving his opinion about what he thinks it was?

He is a high ranking general , I believe him


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFewUG3rSY&feature=player_embedded#at=66h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFewUG3rSY&feature=player_embedded#at=66

[Serpo]

Sad how after all these years he finds out he has been lied too............

Its has been obvious for sometime that ISRAEL DID 9/11

[joboo]

He is a high ranking general , I believe him


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFewUG3rSY&feature=player_embedded#at=66h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFewUG3rSY&feature=player_embedded#at=66

There's no doubt I believe he thinks what he thinks is true. Thing is, did he watch loose change, and listen to Alex Jones, and endless regurgitation's of that plastered across the net, and come to the same conclusions? That's the question.

He makes no new points, and provides no new evidence other than what everyone already knows found freely available on the internet. The problem is once you make a conclusion you will perceive any evidence to match it. That method of thinking is a trap imo.

[joboo]

Hundreds of professional pilots have voiced their opinion that nobody, not even a trained pilot could have pulled off the manuever the government claims this mystery jet, flown by untrained personell, supposedly pulled off. So who are we supposed to believe, Joboo and the lying government duo-citizens, or our own common sense?

The plane could have been auto piloted into that flight pattern, as indicated by reading the link I provided. It doesn't matter who thinks they could have flown that, the plane CAN fly that. Who cares who is flying it? You can't make the assumption the pilot was bad, so it's impossible if the whole terrorist narrative is a fabrication anyways right?


Guys....this information has been out since 2006. Where have you all been?

Some serious Alex Jones promoted Loose change deprogramming needs to take place with this line of thinking.

You may not be aware of it but it has affected your perception.

[joboo]

The point of this thread is that a retired general of 32 years is saying it wasn't done by terrorists.

Yes, and no. That way the interview was setup no, the big picture for this guy, yes. But why float out a total misconception when introducing him? It's wrong.

[mamboni]

http://christconquers.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/9-11-mural-van.jpg

Urban MOving SyStems IncorporAteD

Urban Moving Systems and Detained Israelis


2 found with video of Sears Tower

Michelle Mowad, Special to The Mercury October 17, 2001





PLYMOUTH -- Two men whom police described as Middle Eastern were detained in the township by federal imigration authorities after being found with detailed footage of the Sears Tower in Chicago. Plymouth Police encountered the men after an officer responded to Pizzeria Uno on the 1000 block of West Ridge Pike at 2:40 p.m. Thursday for a report of illegal dumping, according to reports. A manager there advised the police officer that a tractor-trailer was observed backed up to the dumpster at the rear of the restaurant. The manager noticed a freshly dumped pile of furniture adjacent to the dumpster, according to police. The manager confronted the vehicle's operator, a Middle Eastern man, police said. The man, who later identified himself as Moshe Elmakias, 30, denied that he did anything and fled the scene, heading west on West Ridge Pike, according to police.

The manager was able to provide township police with the Florida registration number of the tractor-trailer and said that a sign posted on the side of the vehicle read "Moving Systems Incorporated" and included a phone number, police said.

The area was searched by township police, and the vehicle was spotted parked on the curb in front of John Kennedy ford on Ridge Pike, Just west of Industrial Way.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/sears.html

[JohnQPublic]

Deeper Shades of Mossad – Urban Moving Systems and the Exploding Mural Van September 25, 2011 (http://http://christconquers.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/shades-of-mossad/)

Addendum: It has come to my attention that some folks are trying to pass the above image [Image opn Mamboni's post- JQP] off as a genuine photo of the real ‘mural van’. It is not. It is merely an approximation; a graphic representation of what the truck may have looked like, according to the available eyewitness descriptions of the real truck. Listening to the audio, obviously the real truck exploded that day… so I’m not sure how anyone could think that this was actually a real photo. What? Like Mossad just took a picture of their handiwork and just threw it up on Facebook or something? Come on! The real truck most likely didn’t have Urban Moving Systems emblazoned across the side either… but you never know.



The image was made specifically for the video below, simply to visually drive home the sheer insanity of the people who would dare to do such a thing. Personally after a great deal of thought, I’m leaning towards thinking that this had to be a diversion for something else. Perhaps more than one something else… Were truck bombs used at the WTC towers as well? There were reports of exactly that on the news from that day. Something other than planes caused huge explosions in the twin towers that day. Of that much I’m quite certain.

(Video mentioned here):


http://youtu.be/Huf2Kz7bV2k

The 9/11 Mural Van: Rabbit Hole or Memory Hole? (http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/the-911-mural-van-rabbit-hole-or-memory-hole/)
...a man named Robert Stanford, who was the Emergency Coordinator for the New York City District Amateur Radio Emergency Service recorded several hours of police and fire radio transmissions, including this: http://web.archive.org/web/20081130094749/http://www.firehouse.com/audio/wtc10.wav
Shortly after the 3:00 mark, you can hear the following:
“the plane just exploded in the air”
“explosives on King and 6th Avenue”
“one of those remote controlled planes filled with explosives”
Note that King and 6th Avenue is well away from the unfolding disaster further downtown at the World Trade Center.
After many requests for information about “that remote controlled plane,” at 5:16 the events get even stranger:
“It’s a big truck with a mural painted of an airplane diving into New York City and exploding. Don’t know what’s in the truck. The truck is in between 6th and 7th on King Street.”
“with a mural painted .. .airplane .. diving into New York blowin up .. two men got out of the truck .. ran away from it, we got those two under”
“good good”
“you got those… you holding those two guys?”
“got them under let’s get some units…”
“…fucking beat the shit out of them…”
“you alright over there?”
“we have both suspects under… we have the suspects who drove in the van, the van exploded, we have both of them under, let’s get some help over here”
“I’m sending you ESU there, I just wanted to make sure you and your guys all right over there”
“we have both of the …driven .. that exploded …”
“what location?”
“King Street between 6th and Seventh”...

...The few sites that do mention the story tend to use a graphic (and somewhat ridiculous) representation of the van and present it as a photo of the actual van....

[Hatha Sunahara]

Ever notice that 911 draws trolls as shyte draws flies?

I have great admiration for Al Stubblebein's wife. She figured it out sooner because she didn't have those strongly ingrained beliefs. Al himself is a bit slow on the uptake. That might be why he made it so high in the military hierarchy. I suppose he also figured out that the military doesn't reward people who think for themselves. I'm surprised that he didn't comment on the veracity of the videos that showed the planes just ''flying right into the buildings" without revealing any damage to the plane to anyone outside the buildings. I am, however proud of Al. He's moving in the right direction.


Hatha

[joboo]

Deeper Shades of Mossad – Urban Moving Systems and the Exploding Mural Van September 25, 2011 (http://http://christconquers.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/shades-of-mossad/)



Addendum: It has come to my attention that some folks are trying to pass the above image [Image opn Mamboni's post- JQP] off as a genuine photo of the real ‘mural van’. It is not.



Thanks. I was going to mention the van is a total photoshop. Some people still think it's a real photo.

[joboo]

Ever notice that 911 draws trolls as shyte draws flies?

Hatha

It sure does...

You don't need to look any further than this thread for evidence. People with the illusion of knowledge ....based on proven lies....stabbing out with sharpened knives, and vicious stares. These people are crazy. I don't know what happened to them, but it ain't pretty.

They got caught up in a cult based thinking methodology, made their conclusions, then stopped thinking beyond it altogether from that point on. Fortunately a respectable portion of the populous didn't stop thinking, and are not susceptible to mistruths enshrined in cult like behavior. Sadly religion really does play a part in it.

The fast brain v.s. slow brain thinking vid/book I posted helps to explain it further.

[woodman]

I'm surprised that he didn't comment on the veracity of the videos that showed the planes just ''flying right into the buildings" without revealing any damage to the plane to anyone outside the buildings.


Hatha

I didn't understand this part of your post Hatha.

[woodman]

It sure does...

You don't need to look any further than this thread for evidence. People with the illusion of knowledge ....based on proven lies....stabbing out with sharpened knives, and vicious stares. These people are crazy. I don't know what happened to them, but it ain't pretty.

They got caught up in a cult based thinking methodology, made their conclusions, then stopped thinking beyond it altogether from that point on. Fortunately a respectable portion of the populous didn't stop thinking, and are not susceptible to mistruths enshrined in cult like behavior. Sadly religion really does play a part in it.

The fast brain v.s. slow brain thinking vid/book I posted helps to explain it further.


Sounds like you are talking about yourself there Joboo. You try to sound all high and mighty, talking down to us mere mortals. Any one with any common sense can see that a plane never hit the petagon. The only reason they had to sequester all the videos was so they could try and propogate their ridiculous claims. I notice that you seem to have all the time on earth to peruse the site and back up the government's ridiculous conspiracy theory. Really, why do you care so much? You are working so hard that we all suspect you are trying to earn a check.

[joboo]

Sounds like you are talking about yourself there Joboo. You try to sound all high and mighty, talking down to us mere mortals. Any one with any common sense can see that a plane never hit the petagon. The only reason they had to sequester all the videos was so they could try and propogate their ridiculous claims. I notice that you seem to have all the time on earth to peruse the site and back up the government's ridiculous conspiracy theory. Really, why do you care so much? You are working so hard that we all suspect you are trying to earn a check.

You're making false assumptions based on your mind falling into fast brain thinking. Not releasing the videos it still not proof of something either way.

Why would anyone care to have accurate information on 9/11? I can think of endless reasons. Richard Gage would agree, and has done excellent work with it.

Why would anyone care to point out, and distance themselves from crackpot theories when trying to get to the bottom of something?....again, endless reasons.

[osoab]

So you still think that an aluminum shell of a plane penetrated through to the 5th interior level of the petagram?

I got some bridges for sale...

[Hatha Sunahara]

I didn't understand this part of your post Hatha.

If an aluminum plane flies into a steel building a thousand times its size, wouldn't you expect the sudden deceleration to make it crumple and compress at least partially outside the building, and pieces of it would come to a dead stop and fall to the ground just below the point of impact? But no--what we see on TV is the plane flying right into the building and disappearing without a trace of damage to the plane visible from outside the building. This to me is a dead giveaway that we are watching Computer Generated Imagery--essentially a cartoon on the TV. And everybody believes it!


Hatha

[Serpo]

I dont remember them finding any bodies on the pentagon lawn

[woodman]

If an aluminum plane flies into a steel building a thousand times its size, wouldn't you expect the sudden deceleration to make it crumple and compress at least partially outside the building, and pieces of it would come to a dead stop and fall to the ground just below the point of impact? But no--what we see on TV is the plane flying right into the building and disappearing without a trace of damage to the plane visible from outside the building. This to me is a dead giveaway that we are watching Computer Generated Imagery--essentially a cartoon on the TV. And everybody believes it!


Hatha


I understand what you are saying Hatha. I certainly don't claim to know the facts. I do believe that if no planes hit the bldgs, many people would cry foul because they were there and saw that no planes hit. I think it is certainly posible for someone to stage the videos however.

It is also a fact that speed gives strange properties to otherwise weak materials. It is often noted after particularly viscious tornadoes that many blades of green grass are driven right into the side of telephone poles. So in this case I suppose I would have to claim ignorance and bow to superior knowledge of those versed in physical science and structural analysis. What is the concensus among physical scientists I wonder.

[woodman]

Don't take my skepticism of the 'no planes' theory to mean that I think the planes brought the buildings down. Those buildings were brought down by some kind of explosives. They were 'pulled'. It certainly was an inside job and most likely done by our dual government whose loyalties do not lie with our nation but with a miserable little nation called Israel.

I also feel that it goes way beyond loyalties to Israel. They are on a fast track to take away all our liberties and the constitution our father died to implement. It is the NWO and they desire power.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Seems that the laws of physics were suspended on 9/11/2001. The good General thinks that the puffs of dust that blew out sequentially from the floors just below the point of collapse in the building were demolition charges set to go off sequentially. Those puffs of smoke could also have been caused by the top of the building, which did not turn into a dust cloud, descending on the lower floors and compressing the gasses in those floors just prior to their dustification. The big mystery is what really caused most of the buildings to turn into dust, and the rest of it to melt into pools of iron underneath all the dust and rubble. Those pools of molten iron stayed molten for weeks or months even. How much energy would it take to do all that? My guess is a hell of a lot of energy. Far more than a single plane could deliver in an impact, unless the plane was carrying some kind of nuclear device. But then what was that big boom everybody heard below each of the buildings just before the collapse started? If you want a clue, go google some images of the Fiterman building on 911. This was the building across the street from WTC7. Look at the damage to that building. And keep in mind that no plane hit WTC7. That damage begs for some kind of explanation.


Hatha

[vacuum]

There's no doubt I believe he thinks what he thinks is true. Thing is, did he watch loose change, and listen to Alex Jones, and endless regurgitation's of that plastered across the net, and come to the same conclusions? That's the question.

He makes no new points, and provides no new evidence other than what everyone already knows found freely available on the internet. The problem is once you make a conclusion you will perceive any evidence to match it. That method of thinking is a trap imo.

However in his case he has decades of intelligence experience, knows how the military operates from the inside, knows all about command and control, and is presumably non-reactionary, level-headed, rational, and objective.

In other words, both his experience and presumed character qualities mean that because he has vetted his information from his perspective and endorsed it, the evidence gains credibility rather than the endorsement taking credibility from him. Of course it's exactly the opposite for people biased against the whole thing.

[joboo]

I dont remember them finding any bodies on the pentagon lawn

There have been many high speed plane crashes where they simply don't find bodies, or much of the plane for that matter. People have a tendency to atomize back into water vapor under immense forces. Sounds crazy but it's true.

We are entering the information revolution in mankind's history. How people think is way more important to me than what people think. People are constantly bombarded by information, and the mind comes up with fast type thinking to cope with it.

So much in fact that some people can't fully escape the process. These types need to retrain themselves back into slow brain thinking. It's essentially a mess for some.

How you're thinking about something is a scenario few give much thought... i.e. really think about.

The assumption was seeded by loose change, then preached (literally..as in cult) ad naseum by Alex Jones, and parroted again, and again far and wide.

The bottom line is they had airplanes...they most definitely used them, and all the evidence points to it.

[joboo]

However in his case he has decades of intelligence experience, knows how the military operates from the inside, knows all about command and control, and is presumably non-reactionary, level-headed, rational, and objective.

In other words, both his experience and presumed character qualities mean that because he has vetted his information from his perspective and endorsed it, the evidence gains credibility rather than the endorsement taking credibility from him. Of course it's exactly the opposite for people biased against the whole thing.


His experience, from what he described, is taking arial footage of landscapes for intelligence. He says says he's visual....well so am I, so are a lot of people, in fact most are.

He could be the most rational person in the world, but if he is forming conclusions with false information the whole thing is moot.

You can't read all kinds of data into an equation based on blind assumptions you think could/should be true.

[JohnQPublic]

There have been many high speed plane crashes where they simply don't find bodies, or much of the plane for that matter. People have a tendency to atomize back into water vapor under immense forces. Sounds crazy but it's true.

...

Links, examples?

[Serpo]

Israel recruits 'army of bloggers' to combat anti-Zionist Web sites

Israelis who speak a second language to represent Israel on 'problematic' Websites in new Absorption Ministry program.

By Cnaan Liphshiz | Jan.19, 2009 | 1:37 AM | http://www.haaretz.com/images/icons/comment.png 12




The Immigrant Absorption Ministry announced on Sunday it was setting up an "army of bloggers," to be made up of Israelis who speak a second language, to represent Israel in "anti-Zionist blogs" in English, French, Spanish and German.
The program's first volunteer was Sandrine Pitousi, 31, from Kfar Maimon, situated five kilometers from Gaza. "I heard about the project over the radio and decided to join because I'm living in the middle of the conflict," she said.
Before hanging up the phone prematurely following a Color Red rocket alert, Pitousi, who immigrated to Israel from France in 1993, said she had some experience with public relations from managing a production company.
"During the war, we looked for a way to contribute to the effort," the ministry's director general, Erez Halfon, told Haaretz. "We turned to this enormous reservoir of more than a million people with a second mother tongue." Other languages in which bloggers are sought include Russian and Portuguese.
Halfon said volunteers who send the Absorption Ministry their contact details by e-mail, at media@moia.gov.il, will be registered according to language, and then passed on to the Foreign Ministry's media department, whose personnel will direct the volunteers to Web sites deemed "problematic." ie gsus ;D
Within 30 minutes of announcing the program, which was approved by the Foreign Ministry on Sunday, five volunteers were already in touch, Halfon said.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-combat-anti-zionist-web-sites-1.268393



also.........http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/12/diary-of-an-israeli-shill/

[joboo]

Links, examples?

911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.html

If the forces are enough to break steel, and hardened aluminum into tiny microscopic fragmented pieces, you can bet skin, and bone is going to be no contest by comparison. The forces involved are so immense it's hard to fully comprehend. Add fire to the mix, and there's very little/nothing left to find after the fact.

[mamboni]

Seems that the laws of physics were suspended on 9/11/2001. The good General thinks that the puffs of dust that blew out sequentially from the floors just below the point of collapse in the building were demolition charges set to go off sequentially. Those puffs of smoke could also have been caused by the top of the building, which did not turn into a dust cloud, descending on the lower floors and compressing the gasses in those floors just prior to their dustification. The big mystery is what really caused most of the buildings to turn into dust, and the rest of it to melt into pools of iron underneath all the dust and rubble. Those pools of molten iron stayed molten for weeks or months even. How much energy would it take to do all that? My guess is a hell of a lot of energy. Far more than a single plane could deliver in an impact, unless the plane was carrying some kind of nuclear device. But then what was that big boom everybody heard below each of the buildings just before the collapse started? If you want a clue, go google some images of the Fiterman building on 911. This was the building across the street from WTC7. Look at the damage to that building. And keep in mind that no plane hit WTC7. That damage begs for some kind of explanation.


Hatha

Neither plane impact, focal floor collapse or fire brought those massive overbuilt towers down, not by a long shot.

Fact: WTC 1 & 2 were built with 600% load redundancy. The work energy created by the falling top could not collapse the building beneath it - it was simply impossible.

Fact: Steel only weakens and melts well above 1200 degrees F. And the heat must be highly concentrated - think a blast furnace. An office fire burns no hotter than 450 degrees F. Nowhere in this galaxy could such a fire even get the massive steel members in the towers red hot, let alone melt, because of the heat wicking effect of the steel skeleton.

Fact: Molten steel quickly cools and solidifies at ambient temperatures, within minutes to hours. Molten steel in lakes was witnessed by multiple firemen underneath the collapsed towers weeks after 911. This is de facto proof of eutectic molten metal, ongoing thermite/thermate reactions.

Fact: Thermate was detected in the rubble widely. And the steel showed severe sulfuric corrosion, or sulfurization, proof of thermate combustion.

WTC 1, 2 & 7 were indisputably brought down by controlled demolition and therefore, 911 was an inside job. Anyone who would dispute this is either misinformed, uninformed or a disinformation shill working indirectly or directly for the very people who committed this crime against the United States.

[mamboni]

911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.html

If the forces are enough to break steel, and hardened aluminum into tiny microscopic fragmented pieces, you can bet skin, and bone is going to be no contest by comparison. The forces involved are so immense it's hard to fully comprehend. Add fire to the mix, and there's very little/nothing left to find after the fact.

Yeah sure - you're so damn smart. It's a good thing that Mohommad Atta's passport survived the impact in virtual pristine condition. Obviously, it was fabricated out of fire-resistent high-tensile paper and plastic.

Moron.

[Serpo]

911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.html

If the forces are enough to break steel, and hardened aluminum into tiny microscopic fragmented pieces, you can bet skin, and bone is going to be no contest by comparison. The forces involved are so immense it's hard to fully comprehend. Add fire to the mix, and there's very little/nothing left to find after the fact.
http://www.artwhatson.com.au/images/members/0020686/Gallery-Lane-Cove-Jeni-Robertson-Australian-Dreaming-0094048_121027103946.jpg




(http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=zlPIDv6zMR3I8M&tbnid=kGYjijh1o0op0M:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADgL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artwhatson.com.au%2Fgalleryla necove%2Fnorthern-expressions%2Faustralian-dreaming&ei=gzIQUbKsPMHEkgWk6IHwCw&psig=AFQjCNFdYyygDq1kgA-u3DE77nADVrLC0g&ust=1360102404026504)http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/009/a/0/in_life_never_stop_dreaming_by_belinda14-d36sjdu.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=Jq5Btf3Cpps9QM&tbnid=SnfTVspBSeUbhM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADiDAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbelinda14.deviantart.com%2Fart%2F In-Life-Never-Stop-Dreaming-192807714&ei=JTMQUer8AoaKmwWd74CYBw&psig=AFQjCNG5X0xc6P2IavIVR-DgEWUViLWlRQ&ust=1360102565085781)



(http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=zlPIDv6zMR3I8M&tbnid=kGYjijh1o0op0M:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADgL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artwhatson.com.au%2Fgalleryla necove%2Fnorthern-expressions%2Faustralian-dreaming&ei=gzIQUbKsPMHEkgWk6IHwCw&psig=AFQjCNFdYyygDq1kgA-u3DE77nADVrLC0g&ust=1360102404026504)

[joboo]

Yeah sure - you're so damn smart. It's a good thing that Mohommad Atta's passport survived the impact in virtual pristine condition. Obviously, it was fabricated out of fire-resistent high-tensile paper and plastic.

Moron.

I'm talking out the missile scenario, and you're off comparing something totally unrelated to form a conclusion again. This is precisely the example of the type thinking I'm talking about.

What does the planted passport have to do with the pentagon?

[vacuum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sdg5NzMUF4&feature=player_embedded


His experience, from what he described, is taking arial footage of landscapes for intelligence. He says says he's visual....well so am I, so are a lot of people, in fact most are.

He could be the most rational person in the world, but if he is forming conclusions with false information the whole thing is moot.

You can't read all kinds of data into an equation based on blind assumptions you think could/should be true.

What you are saying here is true, but it's pointing to the fundamental flaw both you and the guy in the video above appear to have. I don't believe you are a troll or a shill, but rather I think that you use an incompatible cognitive process from most others here.

From my observations, both you and the guy in the video above generally try to move toward a rational, proven, consensus about all the issues we discuss, including 911. That's why you are concerned with the image we as a group present to everyone else, and also why you attempt to de-emphasize things which are not considered proven.

The vast majority of people who support these rational consensuses are in the mainstream, with conspiracy theorists generally in the alternative. You (and the guy in the video above) however seem to be a growing group who are bringing the rational consensus to the alternative arena.

As I have shown, there is no such thing as a rational consensus. A rational consensus is a deductive reasoning paradigm where everyone must first hold common premises upon which deductive reasoning is applied to arrive at the rational consensus. I propose you are literally using a different cognitive process from the rest of us here, one which I have argued is inferior and flawed.

I wrote two threads describing these differences:
Confession: Inside the Mind of a Conspiracy Theorist (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66870-Confession-Inside-the-Mind-of-a-Conspiracy-Theorist)
Thesis: Beyond the Scientific Method - Shifting into the New Age (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66869-Thesis-Beyond-the-Scientific-Method-Shifting-into-the-New-Age)

I encourage everyone to consider the possibility that the person they are trying to talk to may be a deducivist/subscriber and literally use a different cognitive process than they use, in addition to the possibility of being a shill or troll. Obviously almost everyone you talk to in your daily life is neither a shill or troll...what they all have in common is rather the cognitive process they use. The need for a rational consensus.

[joboo]

^ That all sounds good, and all but you have to look at the evidence objectively regardless.

There are some users here that refuse to do it because it goes against what they have been subconsciously trained to believe, or simply just want to believe.

Most of these individuals are faith based religious types.

[mamboni]

I'm talking out the missile scenario, and you're off comparing something totally unrelated to form a conclusion again. This is precisely the example of the type thinking I'm talking about.

What does the planted passport have to do with the pentagon?

Oh excuse me, I didn't realize that missiles carry passengers to be disintegrated on impact, not planes. My bad. /sarc

[Serpo]

I'm talking out the missile scenario, and you're off comparing something totally unrelated to form a conclusion again. This is precisely the example of the type thinking I'm talking about.

What does the planted passport have to do with the pentagon?

It is related as you are saying everything was blown to tiny pieces just like this passport was meant too but didnt.

[Serpo]

^ That all sounds good, and all but you have to look at the evidence objectively regardless.

There are some users here that refuse to do it because it goes against what they have been subconsciously trained to believe, or simply just want to believe.

Most of these individuals are faith based religious types.

And how on earth would you know that

[joboo]

http://www.artwhatson.com.au/images/members/0020686/Gallery-Lane-Cove-Jeni-Robertson-Australian-Dreaming-0094048_121027103946.jpg




(http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=zlPIDv6zMR3I8M&tbnid=kGYjijh1o0op0M:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADgL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artwhatson.com.au%2Fgalleryla necove%2Fnorthern-expressions%2Faustralian-dreaming&ei=gzIQUbKsPMHEkgWk6IHwCw&psig=AFQjCNFdYyygDq1kgA-u3DE77nADVrLC0g&ust=1360102404026504)http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/009/a/0/in_life_never_stop_dreaming_by_belinda14-d36sjdu.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=Jq5Btf3Cpps9QM&tbnid=SnfTVspBSeUbhM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADiDAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbelinda14.deviantart.com%2Fart%2F In-Life-Never-Stop-Dreaming-192807714&ei=JTMQUer8AoaKmwWd74CYBw&psig=AFQjCNG5X0xc6P2IavIVR-DgEWUViLWlRQ&ust=1360102565085781)



(http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=zlPIDv6zMR3I8M&tbnid=kGYjijh1o0op0M:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADgL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artwhatson.com.au%2Fgalleryla necove%2Fnorthern-expressions%2Faustralian-dreaming&ei=gzIQUbKsPMHEkgWk6IHwCw&psig=AFQjCNFdYyygDq1kgA-u3DE77nADVrLC0g&ust=1360102404026504)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INY5RCzhbjw


Downloaded pictures are great and all, but how many passengers do you think you're going to find from that?

[mamboni]

It is related as you are saying everything was blown to tiny pieces just like this passport was meant too but didnt.

Are you kidding? Do you really believe this ass believes the total bullshit he spews here with impunity? Don't you see, a plane traveling at 600 mph isn't a missile at all - it's just a plane! After all, it has wings!

What transparent bullshit artistry. Another thread getting crapped all over by the resident ADL/SPLC interloper.

[joboo]

And how on earth would you know that

It's an observation that holds true. There is a distinct tendency, and direct correlation. Suppression of physical evidence over a belief system.

[vacuum]

^ That all sounds good, and all but you have to look at the evidence objectively regardless.

There are some users here that refuse to do it because it goes against what they have been subconsciously trained to believe, or simply just want to believe.

Most of these individuals are faith based religious types.

It is impossible to look at anything objectively; we are all biased in ways we can't know or predict. This is the fallacy deductivists make. Only when one realizes that he is not objective can he begin to become more objective.

It's easy to see others flaws such as faith-based types, but unless you are questioning every assumption, you yourself have the same flaws. You should read at least the first essay.

[Serpo]

It's an observation that holds true. There is a distinct tendency, and direct correlation. Suppression of physical evidence over a belief system.
It's an observation that holds true
hahahah

[joboo]

It is related as you are saying everything was blown to tiny pieces just like this passport was meant too but didnt.

No I'm not saying that. If people want to link up unrelated info then that's their own flawed line of thinking.

I'm talking about one specific incident. If someone wants to trail off elsewhere, and make other unrelated conclusions, and link it back as "proof", then that's simply idiocy.

"A passport was planted geographically elsewhere so it was a missile" it about as stupid as it gets.

The passport was planted there... everyone knows this. It has nothing to do with physics.

[joboo]

It's an observation that holds true
hahahah

If you don't see the connection then you're simply not thinking. It's the religion v.s. scientific approach argument phrased differently.

[Serpo]

Are you kidding? Do you really believe this ass believes the total bullshit he spews here with impunity? Don't you see, a plane traveling at 600 mph isn't a missile at all - it's just a plane! After all, it has wings!

What transparent bullshit artistry. Another thread getting crapped all over by the resident ADL/SPLC interloper.

How many of these interlopers on GSUS have we had....lost count ......jewboy is the latest

[Serpo]

If you don't see the connection then you're simply not thinking. It's the religion v.s. scientific approach argument phrased differently.

Who cares joboo,you seem to be the problem here and yet you cannot see it......

this forum can see thru people with a false agenda

you have a false agenda too me........ie NOT REAL

[joboo]

It is impossible to look at anything objectively; we are all biased in ways we can't know or predict. This is the fallacy deductivists make. Only when one realizes that he is not objective can he begin to become more objective.

It's easy to see others flaws such as faith-based types, but unless you are questioning every assumption, you yourself have the same flaws. You should read at least the first essay.

If you see three apples on a table, and form the conclusion there is three apples on a table. Is that biased?

Something tells me no.

[joboo]

Who cares joboo,you seem to be the problem here and yet you cannot see it......

this forum can see thru people with a false agenda

I see very well.

If you took the time to read the link I provided, and evaluate that site, and make up your own mind you would see this. I'm going to bet you did not take the time.

[joboo]

How many of these interlopers on GSUS have we had....lost count ......jewboy is the latest

The issue is some of you are so wierded out over the whole GIM breakup thing it has scarred you intellectually into a permanent level of paranoia. Some of you refuse to look at any information rationally despite what the evidence shows.

At some point in the future you might realize it.

[vacuum]

If you see three apples on a table, and form the conclusion there is three apples on a table. Its that biased?

Something tells me no.

What happens when one of your peers says he sees only one apple?

[Serpo]

I see very well.

If you took the time to read the link I provided, and evaluate that site, and make up your own mind you would see this. I'm going to bet you did not take the time.

I read it ,very good article

this Jim Hoffman believes the W7 building was brought down by explosives......
More examples of Jim Hoffman's Blatant Dishonesty: "Airliner crashes typically leave no recognizable debris"


Submitted by Keenan on Sun, 2009-10-04 21:30. Jim Hoffman, the notorious disinformationist who seems to focuse most of his deceptive practices on the 9/11 Pentagon attack, has created a presentation on his website purporting to show that airliner crashes typically do not leave much if any recognizable debris. The purpose of his presentation is to support his argument that the lack of recognizable aircraft debris at the Pentagon on 9/11 does not damage the case for the OCT of AA77 having crahed there:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.htm... (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.html)
Jetliner Crash Debris
Examples of Jetliner Crashes Leaving Little Recognizable Debris
Some skeptics of the official account of the 9/11/01 attack maintain that the apparent paucity of aircraft debris at the crash sites -- the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and Shanksville PA -- is evidence that jetliners did not crash there [Notice how he tries to lump Pentagon Boeing crash skeptics in with WTC no planers, yet again?]. Such arguments are based on several assumptions, including that jetliner crashes always leave extensive debris with easily recognizable pieces. However, one does not have to look far to find numerous examples of crashes of jetliners and cargo jets that left almost no recognizable debris, such as those listed here.
[...]

The problem is that when one applies a little bit of critical analysis and fact checking, one quickly discovers a whole lot of deception going on, which seems to be par for the course with Hoffman. One person who decided to do the checking and discovered massive deception in Hoffman's presentation was one Bruno from WeAreChangeLA. He then provided photographic evidence, including from many of the crashes that Hoffman referred to, which actually showed large recognizable debris - indicating the Hoffman purposely chose to cherry pick photos that were not representative, or flat out lied about what was in the photos. When Bruno presented this on True Faction, he was howled down and shortly thereafter the thread was locked, with John Bursill saying "Time for this movement to close ranks once again!" Sigh...It always cracks me up when somebody over at True Faction refers to their little clique of clowns there as "the movement". LOL!
The original post can be found at http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5687&start=135
Bruno creates his own presentation in which he picks apart Hoffman's article and deconstructs Hoffman's blatant disinformation. Jim Hoffman wrote:
"Crashes of aircraft into buildings also typically leave little in the way of large debris, as the December 5, 2005 crash of a C-130 into an apartment building in Iran illustrates."
He gives an example of a plane hitting a building, then shows 4 aerial photos with the claim that no recognizable debris was seen. But look what Bruno found in a matter of seconds: numerous photos of the same crash site with large recognizable debris:
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnjtcf4_14dbznr3f4
Is it not fair to ask now where Jim Hoffman is receiving his pay check? If not now then when? How many blatant lies and distortions does someone like Hoffman have to be caught engaging in before he should be shamed out of the movement? What say you, truthers?
Here is Bruno's post on 911Blogger discussing Hoffman's dishonest research methods in response to John A's juvenile attacks in which JohnA once again compares Boeing crash skeptics to "Holocaust Deniers". I think Bruno sums up the situation quite well:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/21517#comment-218640

I got sucked into this Pentagon discussion because I saw real footwork getting real answers when I watched CIT's documentaries on the witnesses. Then I was informed that CIT was getting bashed and treated like disinfo. I slowly got into each consecutive discussion, and it's Hoffman's attacks that disturbed me the most, because when I looked at his Pentagon opinion page (it can't really be called anything more than his opinion) at 911Research I was shocked. How can this guy who really does not present much if any legitimate research on the Pentagon then go on the attack against somebody else who is actually going to DC and getting actual witness testimony as evidence on record? Even if someone disagrees with CIT's conclusions, the evidence stands and should not be dismissed, no matter whose feelings got hurt.
On the other hand, you can't even qualify Hoffman's presentation as research. He makes far far too many conclusions without doing any actual footwork. Legge does the same. The page that Hoffman presented as support for his opinion that large recognizable plane debris is rare at crash sites was shown to be 99% fail. For each example he gave of historical crash sites, he provided only one photograph to corroborate his claim. When I spent time researching each example, I found evidence of large plane parts at the crash sites. We are talking huge obvious parts like sometimes a wing, sometimes an engine, sometimes chunks of fuselage and usually the tail section in whole or parts. 100% of his examples where other photos or video was available, large plane debris was visible. The remaining handful of examples where only one photo is available can't be considered as evidence either way. Hoffman should correct this page in order to maintain his integrity, and not to be classified as disinfo.
One more thing John, in your sign off you say "We need to move beyond conspiracy theories and slogans..."
How can you classify this notion that the government might someday show a video of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon as anything other than "conspiracy theories and slogans"? It's only conjecture, and it's being used here on 911blogger apparently in an attempt to ward off those in the 9-11 Truth Movement from investigating the Pentagon any further than Hoffman's opinion.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
P.S. You mentioned 'holocaust denial' once again almost like its your personal voodoo word to scare people away from asking questions.

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2458

[Serpo]

The issue is some of you are so wierded out over the whole GIM breakup thing it has scarred you intellectually into a permanent level of paranoia. Some of you refuse to look at any information rationally despite what the evidence shows.

At some point in the future you might realize it.

whole GIM breakup thing it has scarred you intellectually into a permanent level of paranoia.--)O:[##]

[joboo]

What happens when one of your peers says he sees only one apple?

You take another look at the evidence as many times as is necessary. At some point it will become apparent the one apple guy cannot count to three, or two for that matter.

[joboo]

whole GIM breakup thing it has scarred you intellectually into a permanent level of paranoia.--)O:[##]

It's the truth. You guys prove it through your own words, and actions.

[Serpo]

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/jetcrashdebris.html

web site with photos of planes after crashing

[Serpo]

It's the truth. You guys prove it through your own words, and actions.

Losing credibility again......who are"you guys"............. obviously not you

[Glass]

How many of these interlopers on GSUS have we had....lost count ......jewboy is the latest

yes we lost count because Magnes left......

[joboo]

I read it ,very good article

this Jim Hoffman believes the W7 building was brought down by explosives......

The whole site questions the official narrative, yet points out all the evidence indicates a plane not a missile.

The reality is there is no evidence of a missile, and ample evidence to suggest it wasn't.

The entire missile angle offers as much to the debate as David icke and his shape shifting space lizards.

[joboo]

Losing credibility again......who are"you guys"............. obviously not you

I am presenting information with links. I can't say the same in return other than name calling.

Where is the credibility again?

[Serpo]

The whole site questions the official narrative, yet points out all the evidence indicates a plane not a missile.

The reality is there is no evidence of a missile, and ample evidence to suggest it wasn't.

The entire missile angle offers as much to the debate as David icke and his shape shifting space lizards.

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2458

[Serpo]

So you dont deny you are a paid Israeli internet operative.............

[joboo]

So you dont deny you are a paid Israeli internet operative.............

I have several times, however, the question itself is particularly dim when all you need to do is look at the evidence that is available.

I do find it very telling the focus immediately shifts away from the topic for some at every opportunity and goes into personal attack mode.

That's very telling.

[joboo]

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2458

500mph. What does that tell you? What do your eyes compel you to believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INY5RCzhbjw

[Serpo]

I have several times, however, the question itself is particularly dim when all you need to do is look at the evidence that is available.

I do find it very telling the focus immediately shifts away from the topic for some at every opportunity and goes into personal attack mode.

That's very telling.

I have looked at your evidence and it dosnt stand up in fact it sounds like this jim hoffman is also working for Israel

[joboo]

I have looked at your evidence and it dosnt stand up in fact it sounds like this jim hoffman is also working for Israel


Ok...then answer this. What would be gained in the narrative by a missile over an airplane?

[Serpo]

Ok...then answer this. What would be gained in the narrative by a missile over an airplane?




The TRUTH........often overlooked and cast away............

[Serpo]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FoVQzQ-uj6U/SL0L91qwL2I/AAAAAAAAAKk/xolx_MScG7o/s1600/Pentagon%2BExitHole.jpg
so much for the pulverization theory.......
There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C ...... approximately 310 ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered ..... the building." No further information is given.

http://bbcstory.blogspot.com.au/2008/07/story-line-2.html

[Santa]

Ok...then answer this. What would be gained in the narrative by a missile over an airplane?

It would show that your rabbi shekel masters are lying... always lying.

[joboo]

The TRUTH........often overlooked and cast away............

So this guy that works for IL is going against the missile narrative which makes the truthers sound crazy. Hmm. Who is he working for again?

If it is possible for a plane to do that, and they had all kinds of planes up in the air at their disposal complete with training exercises all over the place, and there's all kinds of plane debris, and planes (and people) do atomize at high velocity. 20 miles out...10 miles out....does the order still stand? Yes stand down. That was the pentagon btw.

So they smacked it with a missile, brainwashed all the witnesses, then ran into that burning mess in fire proof suits, then planted airplane parts everywhere without anyone noticing?

One side the evidence is there. The other side there is zero evidence, and it gets increasingly far fetched the more one looks at it.

[Serpo]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FoVQzQ-uj6U/SL0L91qwL2I/AAAAAAAAAKk/xolx_MScG7o/s1600/Pentagon%2BExitHole.jpg
so much for the pulverization theory.......
There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C ...... approximately 310 ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered ..... the building." No further information is given.

http://bbcstory.blogspot.com.au/2008/07/story-line-2.html


what is this hole

and this....http://www.flickr.com/photos/36819974@N04/3390807906/

[joboo]

https://lh3.ggpht.com/_FoVQzQ-uj6U/SL0L91qwL2I/AAAAAAAAAKk/xolx_MScG7o/s1600/Pentagon%2BExitHole.jpg
so much for the pulverization theory.......
There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C ...... approximately 310 ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered ..... the building." No further information is given.

http://bbcstory.blogspot.com.au/2008/07/story-line-2.html


Thicker reinforced wall v.s. thinner walls. Which is why it went through more than one of them. The initial impact force is still the same.

So you get a compromise of what is instantly pulverized v.s. what remains. It all burned for a while as well.

[Serpo]

So this guy that works for IL is going against the missile narrative which makes the truthers sound crazy. Hmm. Who is he working for again?

If it is possible for a plane to do that, and they had all kinds of planes up in the air at their disposal complete with training exercises all over the place, and there's all kinds of plane debris, and planes (and people) do atomize at high velocity. 20 miles out...10 miles out....does the order still stand? Yes stand down. That was the pentagon btw.

So they smacked it with a missile, brainwashed all the witnesses, then ran into that burning mess in fire proof suits, then planted airplane parts everywhere without anyone noticing?

One side the evidence is there. The other side there is zero evidence, and it gets increasingly far fetched the more one looks at it.

They have plenty of video footage and wont show it.......means they are covering something up

[Serpo]

Thicker reinforced wall v.s. thinner walls. Which is why it went through more than one of them. The initial impact force is still the same.

So you get a compromise of what is pulverized v.s. what remains. It all burned for a while as well.

so no bodies.............

[joboo]

so no bodies.............

Like I'm saying the initial impact force was immense as indicated by the concrete wall video. 500mph.

You're not going to find anything recognizable in that level of impact.

And then it all burned in fire for hours. You're not going to find anyone in that.

[joboo]

They have plenty of video footage and wont show it.......means they are covering something up

Is it on purpose. Yes it most definitely is. Could it be to make people ramble on with wild assumptions of what it could be while ultimately not knowing?

It definitely could. It could even make them sound crazy.

Hmm...Just confiscate the video you say, and it will do that? Yup. Cool.

How bout we do that from now on? deal.....ff to sandy hook.

tada...

[Serpo]

Like I'm saying the initial impact force was immense as indicated by the concrete wall video. 500mph.

You're not going to find anything recognizable in that level of impact.

And then it all burned in fire for hours. You're not going to find anyone in that.

yes the teeth burnt down to nothing

Impact force against soft lime stone walls and steel dosnt account for a whole on the other side of the pentagon

[Serpo]

Is it on purpose. Yes it most definitely is. Could it be to make people ramble on with wild assumptions of what it could be while ultimately not knowing?

It definitely could. It could even make them sound crazy.

Hmm...Just confiscate the video you say, and it will do that? Yup. Cool.

How bout we do that from now on? deal.....ff to sandy hook.

tada...

I dont mind sounding crazy as I dont get too attached to ideas one way or an other ,but I do respect the TRUTH a great deal and the Admiral in this OP found out he was being lied too for 50 years or more.

I dont care about your opinion Joboo but I care about the Admrals opinion and you seem to want to ram your opinion down everyones throat which is an example of a hidden agenda

[Horn]

If you see three apples on a table, and form the conclusion there is three apples on a table. Is that biased?

Something tells me no.


joboo quit being a homeo-neutral posterboy for your masturbatory self.

There's no need to form conclusions above & beyond previously inflated ones.

[joboo]

yes the teeth burnt down to nothing

Impact force against soft lime stone walls and steel dosnt account for a whole on the other side of the pentagon

Burnt or shattered? They did say there were human remnants they were able to DNA trace. The imact profile is going to carry forward everything in front of it according to the area affected.

Why would a missile leave a hole like that might be a better question when it's equipped with an explosive warhead designed to blow everything apart in a wide pattern?

[Horn]

Why would a missile leave a hole like that might be a better question IF it's equipped with a explosive warhead designed to blow everything apart in a wide pattern?

Could be a dummy test to determine any number of future "bunker busting" technologies (soon to be required).

Speaking of dummy tests...

[joboo]

I dont mind sounding crazy as I dont get too attached to ideas one way or an other ,but I do respect the TRUTH a great deal and the Admiral in this OP found out he was being lied too for 50 years or more.

I dont care about your opinion Joboo but I care about the Admrals opinion and you seem to want to ram your opinion down everyones throat which is an example of a hidden agenda


That's your opinion. I'm speaking to the evidence that was found. One reality is likely, and all the evidence supports it, while the other is far fetched at best.

The video you posted stated the guy had rock solid evidence of a missile as the premise, and turned out to be everything but. Again I am speaking to this particular aspect of the 9II narrative. I have no argument with the rest of it.

[joboo]

Could be a dummy test to determine any number of future "bunker busting" technologies (soon to be required).

Speaking of dummy tests...

So when did all the airplane wreckage get there without any witnesses noticing that yet they all noticed the airplane flying in and impacting?

All these guys running around tossing stuff all over the place, running in and out of a burning building to set up photo ops, and nobody noticed?

I'm not seeing it. It's far more likely they had planes set out to do this, and they used them.

[Horn]

So when did all the airplane wreckage get there without any witnesses noticing that yet they all noticed the airplane flying in and impacting?

You realize you're talking about the Pentagon?

There are no witnesses.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

[Serpo]

Funny they had air defense turned off that day

[joboo]

You realize you're talking about the Pentagon?

There are no witnesses.

Except for a highway being right there.

[EE_]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/blog_997_1.jpg

[Serpo]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/blog_997_1.jpg

.....

[Horn]

only to add other hither to forever unknown & vested interests.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/119750.jpg

[joboo]

Could be a dummy test to determine any number of future "bunker busting" technologies (soon to be required).

Speaking of dummy tests...

A bunker buster is used to penetrate first then explode. If it exploded, then you're not going to find a hole like that, and if it didn't explode what caused the explosion, and fire? A dud bunker buster + planted explosives? Ok this is new territory indeed.

Yeah...we'll chuck a dud bunker buster in there, then dispose of it, then set off explosives, and start scattering plane wreckage all over the place.

"Harry break out crane to get those engines unloaded, and get that landing gear in there, careful of the flames....don't mind all the traffic stopped right there on the highway....they won't look......ok frank move the crane into position...we need to get the second engine into that burning mess..."

How much more contrived does it need to be to avoid what the evidence is showing?

[Norweger]

http://www.kasjo.net/ats/image004.jpg

Yes, quite.

[joboo]

http://www.kasjo.net/ats/image004.jpg

Yes, quite.

Source?

[osoab]

Source?


image properties. http://www.kasjo.net/ats/image004.jpg

go fish.

[Horn]

A bunker buster is used to penetrate first then explode. If it exploded, then you're not going to find a hole like that, and if it didn't explode what caused the explosion, and fire?

Harley Guy fuel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5y8PtfKA14


http://www.pgi.org/

[joboo]

image properties. http://www.kasjo.net/ats/image004.jpg

go fish.

No thanks, if it's going to be an intelligent discussion, put up the links to your information. Why would I chase down a random photo on the internet? Silly.

I was asking Norweger btw.

[Horn]

Joboo apparently has no clue what the darkside of the force is capable of.

Along with its many minions who believe the only good towelhead, is a dead towelhead.

He is our innocent and lighted one, to be protected & sheltered from the storm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2PVv8ZUin4

[joboo]

Joboo apparently has no clue what the darkside of the force is capable of.

Along with its many minions who believe the only good towelhead, is a dead towelhead.

He is our innocent and lighted one, to be protected & sheltered from the storm.

Don't put words in my mouth. Lack of knowledge = instant personal attack for some users here. Sorry, but that is some low level scenario going on right there. I am well aware of current events.

I'm still waiting to hear something intelligent from you countering post #99.

At least be man enough to admit when you have nothing, or could be incorrect with your assumption. I do, but nobody has posed a single question yet that merits it.

Yet it's still 100% a missile, and I'm the crazy one.

A bit much.

[Horn]

I'm still waiting to hear something intelligent from you countering post #99.

Unspent Fuel

http://science.howstuffworks.com/cruise-missile2.htm

[joboo]

Fuel

A one word answer. That's quite the hypothesis.

Do you realize when truthers are labelled as irrational crazy people, this is exactly the type of scenario they are referring to?

[Horn]

A one word answer. That's quite the hypothesis.

Do you realize when truthers are labelled as irrational crazy people, this is exactly the type of scenario they are referring to?

I edited it, and put a link for the hieroglyphics part of your examination.

K.I.S.S.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni3MKJNSLOk

[joboo]

I edited it, and put a link for the hieroglyphics part of your examination.

K.I.S.S.

I just don't see a missile leaving a neat hole like that when it explodes. Bricks are going to fly in every direction. Whatever made that hole was inert at the time of impact.

When is the thing exploding, and how is it getting to that point without exploding?

[Horn]

CIT has been dedicated to providing independent verifiable evidence demonstrating the true flight path of the Pentagon attack jet which ultimately proves it could not have hit the building as reported.

But is the government story flight path as shown in the official data, reports, and required by the physical damage even physically possible?


Pilots for 9/11 Truth released an article earlier this year demonstrating how the final leg of the official flight path is in fact mathematically impossible for a 757 or any transport aircraft for that matter.

Unfortunately the article was released with an error that was quickly noted by other members as well as detractors who came out with their own interpretations of this scenario and the problem presented.

As any honest scientist/professional would do, Pilots for 9/11 Truth quickly admitted the error and promised an update with corrected math.

Since the issue had become convoluted with so many people offering up alternative scenarios.....P4T determined it would be best to put out a video presentation not only with the corrected math, but also with complete animations with scale topography for accurate demonstrations along with completely addressing all of the alternative or "debunking" scenarios in detail and showing exactly WHY they are wrong.

They have done this and as it turns out, the entire premise of the initial article holds true and the "debunkers" have been shown to be disingenuous at best or blatantly deceiving at worst.


http://the911forum.freeforums.org/g-force-calcs-prove-pentagon-attack-flight-path-impossible-t59.html (http://the911forum.freeforums.org/g-force-calcs-prove-pentagon-attack-flight-path-impossible-t59.html)

[Horn]

When is the thing exploding, and how is it getting to that point without exploding?

Its a gas ballon (malatov) with a full metal jacket bullet up front.

One of the "eyewitnesses" said she saw it "speed up towards the end of its path".

A pentagon witness stated that "it came straight down"

Scale of birds are most of the time unknowable to the human eye, as the only reference is sky.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YknxpMZKAZk&NR=1&feature=endscreen

[joboo]

Its a gas ballon (malatov) with a full metal jacket bullet up front.

Ok, so how does the plane wreckage fit in all over the place?

When did they have time to move all that in there unnoticed after the missile hit?

[vacuum]

I'm wondering why the fuselage created a perfectly round hole, while the engine and wings (which have all the fuel in them) don't even make a scratch on the wall.

[Cebu_4_2]

WHY you guys eat into the TROLL?

[Horn]

An AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missile in flight. A morphing wing could help future systems to fly faster to targets and then adapt to loiter before engaging to evaluate the effectiveness of earlier strikes.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/uploads/feature/feature91197/7-morphing-metals-7.jpg4404

http://www.airforce-technology.com/features/feature91197/feature91197-7.html

[steel_ag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypc4ieJO0pg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Real Eyes Realize Real _______

[joboo]

And what took down the five light poles?


If they scattered that wreckage in there by hand, this is the best movie set I've ever seen. It would take days to create the level of realism required for a set like that.

i.e towards the end of the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

[Horn]

http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/wlc/image/75/75102.jpg

On February 27, 1933, the German parliament (Reichstag) building burned down due to arson. The government falsely portrayed the fire as part of a Communist effort to overthrow the state.


Using emergency constitutional powers, Adolf Hitler’s cabinet had issued a Decree for the Protection of the German People on February 4, 1933. This decree placed constraints on the press and authorized the police to ban political meetings and marches, effectively hindering electoral campaigning. A temporary measure, it was followed by a more dramatic and permanent suspension of civil rights following the February 27 burning of the parliament building.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007657

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypc4ieJO0pg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Real Eyes Realize Real _______

That's the loose change thing with a completely fabricated video tossed on top. The video at 2:35 is as fake as it gets.

[steel_ag]

That's the loose change thing with a completely fabricated video tossed on top. The video at 2:35 is as fake as it gets.

I'm still galloping in April.

[mamboni]

Alan Sabrosky 100% Sure Israel did 9-11 follow up interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X2Ad8pX12Q

[joboo]

I'm still galloping in April.


Yeah, April fools perhaps. A bad CGI reproduction at best.

[steel_ag]

Yeah, April fools perhaps. A bad CGI reproduction at best.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXC1aTZhxhM

[joboo]

Feel free to google the wreckage photos, and tell me those pieces inside the building were just randomly laid about here there, and everywhere...

...better yet...when.

No way.

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXC1aTZhxhM

Her criteria is no seats or luggage outside on the lawn = no plane. No fuel on her also rules out a missile with a fuel payload.

Whether or not she recalls any metal debris is up the the individual to determine what state of shock she was in v.s. what she remembers. The are photos showing debris all over the place.

The question has to be asked when did they plant all the plane wreckage, and all that debris on the ground, and what took down the five light poles, and what gouged out that semi circle in the concrete near the generator?

Guys running around knocking (not cutting) down light poles (with what?) on the highway with cars driving by all over the place?

Seems insane to imagine someone casually going around smashing, and shearing down light poles right by a highway, and onto the highway, like that.

What piece of equipment could do that without leaving tire tracks in the grass all over the place?

[Serpo]

http://911review.org/Wiki/no757atthepentagon.html

[Blink]

A one word answer. That's quite the hypothesis.

Do you realize when truthers are labelled as irrational crazy people, this is exactly the type of scenario they are referring to?


Nothing special about this quote of yours, it's pretty much sounds the same as all the others you post, and is only being used so as to let others know who this video is being directed at. Enjoy shill............



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEGgAk1AbA4

[steel_ag]

Her criteria is no seats or luggage outs
ide on the lawn = no plane. No fuel on her also rules out a missile with a fuel payload.

Whether or not she recalls any metal debris is up the the individual to determine what state of shock she was in v.s. what she remembers. The are photos showing debris all over the place.

The question has to be asked when did they plant all the plane wreckage, and all that debris on the ground, and what took down the five light poles, and what gouged out that semi circle in the concrete near the generator?

Guys running around knocking (not cutting) down light poles (with what?) on the highway with cars driving by all over the place?

Seems insane to imagine someone casually going around smashing, and shearing down light poles right by a highway, and onto the highway, like that.

What piece of equipment could do that without leaving tire tracks in the grass all over the place?

Indeed....
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

[Horn]

If only joboo could destroy a Samsonite,

these modern cruise missiles with all their equivalents to airplane parts couldn't either.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-e96m4730

[joboo]

Indeed....
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

A link with a bunch of people saying they saw a plane. Ok.

What took down the light poles? What peice equipment did that?

When did they plant all the wreckage?


Everyone keeps dodging those questions.

[joboo]

Nothing special about this quote of yours, it's pretty much sounds the same as all the others you post, and is only being used so as to let others know who this video is being directed at. Enjoy shill............


This is the only aspect of it that I'm questioning Blink. Maybe you missed that?

Try to answer the questions I'm posing above.

Sometimes you have to look at the evidence, and make a conclusion that one is likely, and the other a billion times more far fetched.

Crazy even.


If you can't answer those questions, you have no right to call anyone a shill. Seems like you are perhaps shilling for something.

[joboo]

http://911review.org/Wiki/no757atthepentagon.html

You do realize if the plane sheared off five light poles the wing profile would be messed up significantly right?

The article you posted seems to have missed that.

[Horn]

What took down the light poles? What peice equipment did that?

When did they plant all the wreckage?

What difference does it make?

When anything hitting the Pentagon would be an inside job, Batman.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU8tZZzRWdM

[joboo]

What difference does it make?

When anything hitting the Pentagon would be an inside job, Batman.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU8tZZzRWdM

It makes a big difference.

People who look at evidence with a level head have a lot more credibility compared to those that trend off into wild assumptions.

Some people are hell bent on driving home the notion of the "those crazy moonbat truthers" in the minds of others. They deserve the label.

One step forward two steps back.

[steel_ag]

yes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_9kDO3q0w

[Horn]

Some people are hell bent on driving home the notion of the "those crazy moonbat truthers" in the minds of others.

Are you speaking in the 3rd person by witnessing yourself with this statement?

I haven't seen any wild assumptions on thread, though there have been diversionary tactics used by some to introduce collateral damage as evidence while ignoring the main crime, and crime scene.

That crime being a complacent Pentagon, and its tiny hole in a wall.

[joboo]

Are you speaking in the 3rd person by witnessing yourself with this statement?

I haven't seen any wild assumptions on thread, though there have been diversionary tactics used by some to introduce collateral damage as evidence while ignoring the main crime.

That crime being a complacent Pentagon.

It's one of the biggest aspects of this event that continually decimates credibility.

It was touted as the opening premise of this thread by the interviewer.

The evidence for a missile is weak at best. It's not being a shill to point that out.

It's the same thing as September Clues the no planers...big thanks to those dingbats.

Maybe they released only a few frames on purpose to see how many people would come up with crazy ideas?

It seems to have worked extremely well, some are playing right into it.

A few things remain constant, the timeline for planting wreckage all over the place, light poles getting sheared off by some piece of invisible mystery equipment, and highway being right there with eyes, and ears all over the place.

At some point common sense plays a part that those things need to be addressed instead of playing the "it was a missile" narrative over, and over again.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWHHid0Pmo

[Horn]

Pentagon 911 http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
4408


Aug. 16, 1987, Cichan was aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 25, which crashed in the Detroit suburb of Romulus near Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, killing 154 people on board. Two people also died on the ground.

The Phoenix-bound plane had just lifted off at 8:46 p.m., when its left wing clipped a light pole, sending the damaged airliner into a tumble of death. The McDonnell Douglas MD-80 sheared off the top off a rental car building, leaving a half-mile-long trail of bodies, charred wreckage, magazines and trays of food along Middlebelt Road.

.http://www.trbimg.com/img-5029862c/turbine/la-na-nn-sole-survivor-detroit-plane-crash-201-001/600


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/14/nation/la-na-nn-sole-survivor-detroit-plane-crash-20120813 (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/14/nation/la-na-nn-sole-survivor-detroit-plane-crash-20120813)

Notice all the little yellow body sacks.

[Libertytree]

I've been through this before in the past and now my standard retort/question is.....show me the turbine engines, show me the video that was seized etc...etc...

[Horn]

I've been through this before in the past and now my standard retort/question is.....show me the turbine engines, show me the video that was seized etc...etc...

What does it for me is the pinpoint accuracy without scaring the front lawn, and after coming down an embankment to the base of the building.

As if it were laser guided, and had all those computerized self guidance systems to keep it at a certain height.


Shot of what else was in the way.

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/01/13/pentagon_wide-60595c0f46fbdd6b86be08a8de73c169364986ab-s6-c10.jpg

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ds2hg.jpg

[joboo]

Notice all the little yellow body sacks.

Speed is a huge factor. "The Phoenix-bound plane had just lifted off at 8:46 p.m."

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i47.tinypic.com/33ej4oo.jpg

[Horn]

Speed is a huge factor. "The Phoenix-bound plane had just lifted off at 8:46 p.m."

Nope your dead wrong.

Flight 77 could Not have been doing more speed than it,

with the turn that it just made and the altitude which all the eyewitnesses saw it flying.

If it were going full speed at that altitude there would've been no eyewitnesses.

And yet we have a completely destroyed plane with soft tissue body parts laying around in the Phoenix bound case.

A sophisticated cruise missile is capable of all these difficult flight paths, including accelerating to maximum velocity in seconds.

[Libertytree]

http://i47.tinypic.com/33ej4oo.jpg

Could you explain the pic?

[joboo]

What does it for me is the pinpoint accuracy without scaring the front lawn, and after coming down an embankment to the base of the building.

As if it were laser guided, and had all those computerized self guidance systems to keep it at a certain height.


Shot of what else was in the way.

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/01/13/pentagon_wide-60595c0f46fbdd6b86be08a8de73c169364986ab-s6-c10.jpg

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/path_map3.jpg
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/hole11.jpg
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/delmont1.jpg

The argument for how it came in I don't see as a compelling argument for a missile.

Why couldn't they just hit it with a plane from any angle on that side? It would have the same effect.

All they had to do was simply fly an airplane into it. They had plenty of them at their disposal.

I don't see why a huge elaborate scheme had to be devised with scattering wreckage all over the place inside and out, and magically knocking down light poles on both sides of a highway, and right onto the highway, somehow without leaving a trace of anything or anyone doing it for everyone driving by to witness.

Devising that plan like that as a "viable op" is so far fetched.


Edit: look at the first picture where the light poles are (yellow dots)

Who, or better yet, what drove around to all those, and smashed them up shearing them off without even leaving a trace?

What is even capable of doing that, and who in their right mind would try to pull that off right across a highway like that?

No one would plan such a thing and hope to get away with it.

[Horn]

The argument for how it came in I don't see as compelling argument for a missile.

You need to research cruise missiles more,

as far as light poles and other whatnot's collateral, they could've simply been blown out of the way from its last burst to hyper drive.

I'm not saying that was the case, but could have been given the angle of descent down the embankment.

In fact a cruise missile should attack as a falcon attacks, in a spiral, as its calculating its target.

A Haji will go straight for it, like any dumbass religiously programmed human would, if he knew how to fly in the first place...
and most definitely nose the big bird onto its roof or miss it completely in a flyover.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i50.tinypic.com/nnppww.jpg

[joboo]

You need to research cruise missiles more,

as far as light poles and other whatnot's collateral, they could've simply been blown out of the way from its last burst to hyper drive.

I'm not saying that was the case, but could have been given the angle of descent down the embankment.

In fact a cruise missile should attack as a falcon attacks, in a spiral, as its calculating its target.

A Haji will go straight for it like a dumbass religiously programmed human would, if he knew how to fly in the first place...


Nothing got blown out of the way. They were torqued off, as in impacted with something, and sheared...knocked over and torn apart. The force required to do that via air would send cars flying all over the place on the highway with smashed windows. It would kill people on the highway like a bomb going off.

You can't use the bad pilot narrative as proof of anything if they were a fabrication in the first place.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Could you explain the pic?

I can't be sure, but I'll guess that what looks like a curb with a broken section is a concrete slab blown off the exterior wall.

A better question might be......why is the industrial cable/tubing still standing? Was ALL the energy of the explosion directed inward?

[joboo]

http://i50.tinypic.com/nnppww.jpg

At least that picture shows the proper impact damage dimensions rather than the deceptive loose change tiny hole version.

Where were those spools beforehand? That needs to be determined. Were they stacked off to the side? There would be one heck of an air disturbance with a plane that size roaring in at 400+mph

Three of them are already in the position to roll easily. Were they all?

The look like they were off the the right and followed the air currents towards the impact hole.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i47.tinypic.com/1ep4cy.jpg

[Horn]

To scale,

and the lawn mowers were probably cutting the grass there 2 weeks afterwards.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/911_90_01.jpg

[Horn]

Nothing got blown out of the way. They were torqued off, as in impacted with something, and sheared...knocked over and torn apart. The force required to do that via air would send cars flying all over the place on the highway with smashed windows. It would kill people on the highway like a bomb going off.

You can't use the bad pilot narrative as proof of anything if they were a fabrication in the first place.

Now you're just being a batcase with your crazy ideas of torque.4411

http://aneta.org/theories/Pentagon/LightPoles/lightpole_4_base_crop.jpg
.4410

All the while diverting us from the primary crime scene.

There is not a single light pole that shows any signs of torque.

[joboo]

Far away foam covered pics does not mean there wasn't debris. Anything impacting the building will cause debris...which is why I find Steel_Ag's video very inconsistent re: no debris.

When you slam an airplane into a brick skinned container (building) at over 400mph pretty much all of it is going to end up there. There was debris all over the place. To say there wasn't needs to be immediately followed up with some ideas of when did they plant so much of it without anyone noticing?

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/debris_postcollapse1.jpg

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2liy2rb.jpg

[joboo]

Now you're just being a batcase with your crazy ideas of torque.4411

http://aneta.org/theories/Pentagon/LightPoles/lightpole_4_base_crop.jpg
.4410

All the while diverting us from the primary crime scene.

There is not a single light pole that shows any signs of torque.

Really. Hmm. Caused by air disturbance... Sure.

Bottom end...sheared. torqued until it ripped apart, and in pieces.
http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/lightpoles/a10a-DSC_0472-1.JPG
http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/lightpoles/a10a-DSC_0472-1-c1.JPG

[IMG]http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/lightpoles/pent12-o.JPG
closeup of above...sheared right off:
http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/lightpoles/pent12_close2.JPG
Broken into three pieces:
http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/lightpoles/022.JPG

Super thrusters on a missile caused that eh?

[Horn]

Lets not forget the testimony of the taxi cab driver of the cab pictured below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc

[Libertytree]

The fact that there wasn't any appreciable debris is the case here.

[Horn]

See joboo, that there are no other scars on your light pole surfaces, other than where they are creased.

the crease was made upon other contact, on either end of the poles....as if falling to the ground.

Your case for jetliner striking those poles has failed miserably.

[Libertarian_Guard]

At least that picture shows the proper impact damage dimensions rather than the deceptive loose change tiny hole version.

Where were those spools beforehand? That needs to be determined. Were they stacked off to the side? There would be one heck of an air disturbance with a plane that size roaring in at 400+mph

Three of them are already in the position to roll easily. Were they all?

The look like they were off the the right and followed the air currents towards the impact hole.

Joboo

Get some sleep and read over what you've written here tomorrow. Some things should be clear in the morning.

[joboo]

See joboo, that there are no other scars on your light pole surfaces, other than where they are creased.

the crease was made upon other contact, on either end of the poles....as if falling to the ground.

Your case for jetliner striking those poles has failed miserably.

There are no scars eh? I see some pretty significant damage that you simply cannot cause with missile super thrusters.

What's failed even more miserably is your explanation for explosive air disturbance from some super high powered jet propulsion engine flying right above cars on a highway, and no one being killed by it, or cars being damaged by it.

[joboo]

Joboo

Get some sleep and read over what you've written here tomorrow. Some things should be clear in the morning.


If you can't establish where those spools were, then you really cant use them as proof of anything.

The premise is they were in the way right? How do you know where they were? If you don't know then it's ultimately not proof of anything.

[Horn]

What's failed even more miserably is your explanation

I had no explanation, you are putting words in my mouth, as you accuse others doing to you.

This along with many other self masturbatory oversights creates an aire of wingnut craziness emanating from your corner.

[joboo]

The fact that there wasn't any appreciable debris is the case here.


There was debris, and airplane parts found. Both outside, and inside the building.

[joboo]

I had no explanation, you are putting words in my mouth, as you accuse others doing to you.

This along with many other self masturbatory oversights creates an aire of wingnut craziness emanating from your corner.

You made the statement that I don't understand missiles, and that some kind of final "big thrust" could have caused it.

You said it yourself.

The evidence does not show this would have been remotely possible without damaging a bunch of cars in the process.

[Horn]

The evidence does not show this would have been remotely possible without damaging a bunch of cars in the process.

What evidence, were there some thrust vectoring calculations that were missed somewhere on thread?

Where's the bunch a cars?

Were you on the bridge with a bunch of cars that day?

[joboo]

Lets not forget the testimony of the taxi cab driver of the cab pictured below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc

That video is so misleading it's ridiculous. The guy doesn't remember where he was, or what happened. His recollection is all over the place. Then the guy leads him into saying it was planned "off camera".

Well yeah, the narrative is a bunch of terrorists planned the attack as was stated on TV for him 24/7.

This is all big to him....the pentagon...the big money guys, he's just a small guy driving a taxi, it was planned. Well yeah...he is stating the obvious.

[joboo]

What evidence, were there some thrust vectoring calculations that were missed somewhere on thread?

Where's the bunch a cars?

Were you on the bridge with a bunch of cars that day?

Ok no cars would be on the highway right by the pentagon, during rush hour, on a Tuesday morning. Especially the ones hit by light poles, or all the witnesses there that said they saw the plane.

One scenario is much more likely and very simple (airplane...check.....fly it....hit building....done), while the other requires a ton of elaborate planning, evidence planting and tampering, witness fabrication, and ridiculous levels of near impossible obfuscation with people roaming around all over the place.....and, after all of that, you still have to corral a bunch of people from a plane flight, and go dispose of them somewhere along with the airplane on top of it all. Hmm...go crash it in the ocean, then collect all the floating debris? Dig a hole, and bury it? Go crash it in the woods somewhere, then clean it all up? Why not just crash it into the building?!? ....It's insanity.

This is why people hear this missile thing, roll their eyes, and the whole 9II truth movement takes a massive nose dive.

[Horn]

Why not just crash it into the building?!? ....It's insanity.

The wall of the Pentagon is too hard (as in difficult to acquire, not hardness joboo) a target for a jetliner, a near impossible one.

Roof possibly, wall no.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guZ83lA8S5M

Federal officers are betting their lives that the flight paths differ from your downed light poles in this video,

so afterall your light poles prove the cruise missile's path.

Thanks.

[joboo]

The wall of the Pentagon is too hard (as in difficult to acquire, not hardness joboo) a target for a jetliner, a near impossible one.

Roof possibly, wall no.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guZ83lA8S5M

Federal officers are betting their lives that the flight paths differ from your downed light poles in this video,

so afterall your light poles prove the cruise missile's path.

Thanks.


The video starts off as "NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT"

It's sensationalistic from the very beginning.

So far no proof of anything other than a Plane.

It has to be this grand ultra ridiculous scheme of elaborate perplexity to no end, when all they had to do was use the airplane already in the air flying towards it!

The most complicated far fetched scenario imaginable v.s. the simplest and most probable.

The real detraction from the perpetrators of this crime is people that insist on pushing this lunatic nonsensical truther angle, when nothing shows it to be a missile under scrutiny, and everything points to it being an airplane.

For the love of god, and everything sane in this world, stop doing it!!

[vacuum]

The video starts off as "NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT"

It's sensationalistic from the very beginning.

So far no proof of anything other than a Plane.

It has to be this grand ultra ridiculous scheme of elaborate perplexity to no end, when all they had to do was use the airplane already in the air flying towards it!

The most complicated far fetched scenario imaginable v.s. the simplest and most probable.

The real detraction from the perpetrators of this crime is people that insist on pushing this lunatic nonsensical truther angle, when nothing shows it to be a missile under scrutiny, and everything points to it being an airplane.

For the love of god, and everything sane in this world, stop doing it!!

It's only a distraction if you let it be a distraction. Most people in this thread who don't think it was a plane are not distracted, but rather they consciously understand they don't know what happened with certainty and are building up theories about what happened.

The only distraction comes in when someone attempts to force a consensus and/or has a problem with someone else asking questions.

Obviously the general public will have issues with possibilities that are considered fringe, but that is truly their issue, not the people who propose such theories. In an abstract sense, the need for an official story of any sort, a consensus, is where the flaw comes stems from.


A conspiracy theorist recognizes (a) there is a continuum of possibilities, (b) the likelihood of anyone being completely right is almost zero, and (c) all theories are recognized to be possibilities, not certainties. The last one is what I think most people have problems with. Most people are certain about their personal view of the world, and therefore when someone says they believe some version of something happened, they transfer their personal certainty onto the person making the claim, and are shocked at what they find. On the other hand, from the other person's view, it was implied that their theory isn't gospel. They probably don't even totally believe it themselves! They don't expect the other person to take it that way.


Most people have a difficult time understanding how truly different the two different cognitive processes described here are. Deductivists/subscribers believe they are already taking all possibilities into account, and that all the different spurious theories simply have no weight and are therefore largely irrelevant. Perhaps the simple answer is that conspiracy theorists just can't distinguish between relevant and irrelevant facts? It's much different than that. The fundamental attitude of a subscriber is that in order for them to believe something, change their conclusion, or even take the time to look at the details of a possibility, they have to be presented with evidence. They say “prove it to me”. They've settled on an essentially logical conclusion, and do not come up with alternate explanations beyond that point unless compelling evidence is presented to them.

On the other hand, the “conspiracy theorist” never stops asking questions. Even when they are pretty confident they know what really happened, they inevitably question the official story – their personal official story. They are driven by the fact that they don't really know what happened.

Truth is not a right; it's a great privilege only gained by a few through hard work and brutal self honesty. It's immature to expect things to be proven to you. When one recognizes his abject ignorance, truth seeking then becomes a desperation. Instead of asking something to be proven to him, the ignorant should seek out those who he suspects know more than him and beg to be taught. Only those who hold unquestioned premises have the luxury of taking a passive role, everyone else must either take an active role or choose to be ignorant.

Continually asking questions, looking at the possibilities in every context, looking at the possibilities of those possibilities, and questioning one's own personal official theory is indeed a distinct feature of abductive reasoning. Over time, petabytes worth of information will be gathered, creating unforeseeable connections and patterns that the deductivist just cannot see, because he stops asking questioning once he has come to a conclusion. Further questions must have “proof” which may itself require these petabytes of information which they are lacking.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66870-Confession-Inside-the-Mind-of-a-Conspiracy-Theorist

[joboo]

All the evidence points to it being an airplane, It's the simplest most coherent, and likely reality, and everything indicates it was under proper (not loose change pictorial style) scrutiny.

You can try to twist that, but ultimately you can't escape the parameters of the equation just by thinking about it.

As far as I know, thinking about physical realities physically changing does not make them actually change physically.

The human mind has no such magical powers that I know of.

[7th trump]

Hahahahaha....what ever jobo!
No skid marks of giant titanium engines in the grass or one piece of titanium found from the Volkswagen size jets.
No impact of these two giant titanium jet engines where glass windows are not shattered!

I was born at night, but not last night.
Go back to that cave you came from.
If you want to demonstrate your stupidity you don't have to go into such great detail.

[vacuum]

All the evidence points to it being an airplane, It's the simplest most coherent, and likely reality, and everything indicates it was under proper (not loose change pictorial style) scrutiny.

I am, personally, relatively ignorant about this whole thing. I never researched it, haven't read all the replies in this thread, and have not reviewed all the evidence. I have not watched one video on this topic which tries to prove one thing or the other. I haven't seen all the pictures. I've never piloted a plane.


You can try to twist that, but ultimately you can't escape the parameters of the equation just by thinking about it.

As far as I know, thinking about physical realities physically changing does not make them actually change physically.

The human mind has no such magical powers that I know of.

Either you didn't read, or didn't understand, my first quoted paragraph. I claim uncertainty, which bothers you.

At this point, for me, having done almost zero research, my guess is that it probably wasn't a plane. (Does that statement bother you?) When, and if, I devote time into doing the research, my guess might change and I'll be a little less uncertain. The kicker is that the only way I can become less uncertain is by investing the time and doing the research myself. I'm glad you are more certain than I am, and I appreciate that fact. But your certainty can't translate into mine. That's not twisting reality, in fact it's the opposite.

[steel_ag]

Far away foam covered pics does not mean there wasn't debris. Anything impacting the building will cause debris...which is why I find Steel_Ag's video very inconsistent re: no debris.

When you slam an airplane into a brick skinned container (building) at over 400mph pretty much all of it is going to end up there. There was debris all over the place. To say there wasn't needs to be immediately followed up with some ideas of when did they plant so much of it without anyone noticing?

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/debris_postcollapse1.jpg

My position on this Pentagon situation is similar to #138 of this thread... "That crime being a complacent Pentagon, and its tiny hole in a wall."

I made no claim to the veracity of any video or link in this thread.

And, I'm still galloping in April. I'll pick up some some pickled red herring when I get there. Uncertainty if some will be there? Well, like Vacuum, it doesn't bother me.

[mamboni]

Executive summary for the latecomers:

1. Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile, not a passenger jet on 911
2. Government shills still working OT trying to sell the absurd and unprovable passenger jet conspiracy, 12 years later.
3. Shills will never mention the the very unique and special qualities and contents of the specific small portion of the Pentagon destroyed by the cruise missile on 911.

911 was an inside job. Only the ill-informed, the mentally lazy and the paid propaganda shills puppet or believe the official government story of 911, the most absurd and improbable conspiracy theory of them all.

[Serpo]

http://rense.com/general67/radfdf.htm

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-gmzxnaVshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-gmzxnaVs

[joboo]

Hahahahaha....what ever jobo!
No skid marks of giant titanium engines in the grass or one piece of titanium found from the Volkswagen size jets.
No impact of these two giant titanium jet engines where glass windows are not shattered!

I was born at night, but not last night.
Go back to that cave you came from.
If you want to demonstrate your stupidity you don't have to go into such great detail.


Everything you just said is what a victim of Loose Change is.

The propaganda of that video programmed your mind. You saw some random pictures with no time stamps, and now you're convinced of something.

[joboo]

My position on this Pentagon situation is similar to #138 of this thread... "That crime being a complacent Pentagon, and its tiny hole in a wall."

I made no claim to the veracity of any video or link in this thread.

And, I'm still galloping in April. I'll pick up some some pickled red herring when I get there. Uncertainty if some will be there? Well, like Vacuum, it doesn't bother me.

Your witness said there was no debris....which is not true from the above photo. Was she lying?

[joboo]

I am, personally, relatively ignorant about this whole thing. I never researched it, haven't read all the replies in this thread, and have not reviewed all the evidence. I have not watched one video on this topic which tries to prove one thing or the other. I haven't seen all the pictures. I've never piloted a plane.

Either you didn't read, or didn't understand, my first quoted paragraph. I claim uncertainty, which bothers you.

At this point, for me, having done almost zero research, my guess is that it probably wasn't a plane. (Does that statement bother you?) When, and if, I devote time into doing the research, my guess might change and I'll be a little less uncertain. The kicker is that the only way I can become less uncertain is by investing the time and doing the research myself. I'm glad you are more certain than I am, and I appreciate that fact. But your certainty can't translate into mine. That's not twisting reality, in fact it's the opposite.


It doesn't matter how much you've researched something. If there's physical evidence showing something, an opinion to the contrary becomes increasingly less valid the more evidence there is, and vice versa. It's how the court system works, and how crimes are solved.

Are you trying to say a guy holding a gun who just shot someone, with a witness to it, and a body, with fingerprints all over a gun, standing right over the body, with DNA evidence all over the place is innocent because you believe he was holding a sandwich? At some point the evidence shows some conclusions are not only wrong....but literally insane.

All the missile hit the pentagon idiots are doing is fabricating the most unlikely scenario out of some kind of secret conspiratorial fantasy love affair of what they want to believe instead of what actually happened, and what all the evidence is showing.

They were fed disinfo from a documentary called loose change, then someone they looked up like their hero ...Alex Jones...who literally preaches like a cult leader...drove it all home for them upstairs.. They are stuck in a cult mentality, and can't even see it.

Anyone that has bothered to read what I've posted in this thread, and still insists it was a missile, is bordering on insanity.

There's simply no other way to put it. This is the very mindset that has derailed the 9II truth movement right into the dirt by getting it labeled as a bunch of tinfoil loons.

It happened again with Sandy Hook, and the fake Obama photos. I saw it for what it was, and took the time to research it. Not too many others did.

Most of the same people arguing with me over that proven nonsensical baloney are arguing with me here as well.

Something upstairs for them has been programmed to repeatedly form immediate conclusions without any legitimate evidence. It's a cult mentality method of thinking started by Alex Jones.

[joboo]

Executive summary for the latecomers:

-Loose Change programmed my mind.
-I love Alex Jones.
-Missiles are cool they can do anything...it's like magic.
-I have no idea...but it was a missile...because they are cool....and they go zoom in the sky, and are cool!
-I like Turtles
-I can count to potato



That sounds crazy. I don't believe you.

[mamboni]

That sounds crazy. I don't believe you.

FYI, it is extremely uncool to alter quotes of other members. You're really working overtime trying to piss people off and start arguments. Only a psychic vampire would stay here to feed off the negative vibes you're getting bombarded with. I can't believe all the time you wasted in this thread alone in defense of a government lie. You are pathetic and lost.

[Serpo]

FYI, it is extremely uncool to alter quotes of other members. You're really working overtime trying to piss people off and start arguments. Only a psychic vampire would stay here to feed off the negative vibes you're getting bombarded with. I can't believe all the time you wasted in this thread alone in defense of a government lie. You are pathetic and lost.

It seems very important to joboo for some reason

[Serpo]

That sounds crazy. I don't believe you.

Now you resort to making stuff up that others so called wrote...............this is called lying and manipulation and if you can do this sort of thing why would anyone believe anything you say

[joboo]

FYI, it is extremely uncool to alter quotes of other members. You're really working overtime trying to piss people off and start arguments. Only a psychic vampire would stay here to feed off the negative vibes you're getting bombarded with. I can't believe all the time you wasted in this thread alone in defense of a government lie. You are pathetic and lost.


What's pathetic, and lost are people that insist on forming conclusions based on skewed evidence (aka loose change lies) despite being shown otherwise.

[joboo]

Now you resort to making stuff up that others so called wrote...............this is called lying and manipulation and if you can do this sort of thing why would anyone believe anything you say

I pose valid questions that some insist on continually dodging...at some point the mindset has to be called out.

"The executive summary for the latecomers".... #1 A missile hit the pentagon. gmab.

It's like the magic JFK single bullet theory that magically knocks over lamp poles on a busy highway during rush hour traffic.

[7th trump]

Everything you just said is what a victim of Loose Change is.

The propaganda of that video programmed your mind. You saw some random pictures with no time stamps, and now you're convinced of something.

No.............physics is calling you a liar.
Titanium jet engines just dont disappear along with the aircraft.

If anybody is brainwashed its you.....let me guess....as a child you really thought the magician pulled a rabbit, hundreds of hankerchiefs and a few doves out a hat where the law of physics says its impossible.

Joboo the magician!

[mamboni]

I pose valid questions that some insist on continually dodging...at some point the mindset has to be called out.

"The executive summary for the latecomers".... #1 A missile hit the pentagon. gmab.

It's like the magic JFK single bullet theory that magically knocks over lamp poles on a busy highway during rush hour traffic.

Oh, so now you're saying the Warren Commission was FOS and JFK was assassinated by more than one gunman? Ha ha ha. Don't you know that Jackie did it idiot. LOL LOL

[joboo]

Oh, so now you're saying the Warren Commission was FOS and JFK was assassinated by more than one gunman? Ha ha ha. Don't you know that Jackie did it idiot. LOL LOL


So your missile sheared off all those lamp posts with all those witnesses that said they in fact saw the plane, and plane wreckage all over the place inside, and out, with DNA evidence of the deceased passengers of the plane that was flying right towards the pentagon just prior to....but it was a missile!

Someone sounds like an idiot here that's for sure.

[joboo]

No.............physics is calling you a liar.
Titanium jet engines just dont disappear along with the aircraft.

If anybody is brainwashed its you.....let me guess....as a child you really thought the magician pulled a rabbit, hundreds of hankerchiefs and a few doves out a hat where the law of physics says its impossible.

Joboo the magician!

I guess you didn't bother to look at the photographs of the engines they found. I posted a link with all of that way back.

[mamboni]

So your missile sheared off all those lamp posts with all those witnesses that said they in fact saw the plane, and plane wreckage all over the place inside, and out, with DNA evidence of the deceased passengers of the plane that was flying right towards the pentagon just prior to....but it was a missile!

Someone sounds like an idiot here that's for sure.

Documents and sources please. So according to Joboo, the impact vaporized the titanium alloy but left the DNA behind. And the government just happened to have passenger DNA on file. You sir, are full of it.

[Horn]

Documents and sources please. So according to Joboo, the impact vaporized the titanium alloy but left the DNA behind. And the government just happened to have passenger DNA on file. You sir, are full of it.

You mean you've never heard of shape flames?

You just can't shake a stick at something and call it a shill, there is a certain level of competence that need be surpassed to put it into that category.

Again, how very disappointing. :(

[Horn]

The video starts off as "NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT"

It's sensationalistic from the very beginning.... For the love of god, and everything sane in this world, stop doing it!!

You are the same septic dwelling joeking that thought space junk was necessary evil.

You think its O.K. that your government has been compromised with lies.

It is, was, and will continue to be alerting!

[steel_ag]

Your witness said there was no debris....which is not true from the above photo. Was she lying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgExsz5q74Y&feature=gv
2:38 – 3:08. As I was coming out, the area, I didn’t see any type of plane debris, no metal, no airplane seats, om nothing that would cause me to believe that what had just happened was an actual plane hitting the building. Again, I wasn’t on the outside but from the inside view, I didn’t see anything that would give me any indication that a plane had hit and gone thru the building. There was just nothing identifying that that had taken place.

Was she a lying? I doubt it. I think a better question would be... Did complacency (or worse) almost kill her baby that day?

[joboo]

Documents and sources please. So according to Joboo, the impact vaporized the titanium alloy but left the DNA behind. And the government just happened to have passenger DNA on file. You sir, are full of it.

I posted the link pages ago with pictures of what they found including pieces of the engines.

See what you have is this thing called a passenger list, and you contact those families for a DNA sample...hairbrush, toothbrush..etc.. Hard to imagine.

What's really full of it is people thinking this airplane already headed straight for the pentag0n somehow magically turned into a missile at the last moment, and the airplane and all those people magically disappeared, then they ran around planting debris everywhere, and knocking down light poles during rush hour on a busy highway without anyone noticing, and with all kinds of witnesses saying they actually saw the airplane.

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgExsz5q74Y&feature=gv
2:38 – 3:08. As I was coming out, the area, I didn’t see any type of plane debris, no metal, no airplane seats, om nothing that would cause me to believe that what had just happened was an actual plane hitting the building. Again, I wasn’t on the outside but from the inside view, I didn’t see anything that would give me any indication that a plane had hit and gone thru the building. There was just nothing identifying that that had taken place.

Was she a lying? I doubt it. I think a better question would be... Did complacency (or worse) almost kill her baby that day?

She said she walked out barefoot and there was no debris. You want to try walking barefoot in this, and let me know how it goes?

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/debris_postcollapse1.jpg

It sure looks foot friendly. ....and a missile would not leave any debris either? Something isn't making any sense with your expert smoking gun witness. That woman in your video is either lying, or she was in shock out of her head, and does not remember very accurately.

[Libertarian_Guard]

She said she walked out barefoot and there was no debris. You want to try walking barefoot in this, and let me know how it goes?

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/debris_postcollapse1.jpg

It sure looks foot friendly. ....and a missile would not leave any debris either? Something isn't making any sense with your expert smoking gun witness. That woman in your video is either lying, or she was in shock out of her head, and does not remember very accurately.


Now you post a picture of AFTER the facade collapsed!

[vacuum]

Lets say Israel did the whole 911 thing, in conjunction primarily with cheney and maybe a couple key defense guys. 99% of the military probably wasn't involved.

For example, the guy in the OP didn't know it was an inside job until he basically figured it out on his own, just like all of us.

In this context, the missile vs plane thing has a lot more significance. The last thing they would want is to have all the generals in the pentagon to think that Israel just launched a missile and blew a hole in their headquarters. It would probably really piss a lot of the brass off. Even though Cheney and the top Bush guys probably knew exactly what happened, I think they needed this to be genuine for the majority of the pentagon itself. In that case, it would be a big gamble to use a missile instead of a plane imo.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWHHid0Pmo


9/11 CNN No Plane at Pentagon Original Footage

[joboo]

Now you post a picture of AFTER the facade collapsed!

The collapse shot out all that debris?

So are you saying they planted all that? Can you give me an idea of when you think that could of happened after the the impact?

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWHHid0Pmo


9/11 CNN No Plane at Pentagon Original Footage


Just go back and look.

[joboo]

All you need to do is have this airplane already going there hit it.

One is already en route. It's headed straight for it.

But instead, it somehow magically disappears right at that location, and a missile magically appears!

Then....they run around planting debris everywhere with nobody noticing in the middle of rush hour knocking down light poles all over the place with all kinds of people seeing the airplane.

Wow that seems incredibly odd. Hmm...wtf?

But somehow that makes sense...it seems like a viable plan. Let's execute it.

Use the airplane already headed there? Nahhh... no way...too easy.

Let's send in a magic missile then construct an insanely elaborate plan to cover up a million different aspects from the plane to the people, to the flight recorder, to the witnesses, to the debris, the missile itself...and the fabrication list goes on forever for anyone that touches it or comes near it. Everyone was compromised, and brainwashed top to bottom. Yes sir.

Gee that sounds damn complicated....Frank why not just hit it with the damn plane already?

No way man! Magic missile FTW!

Fly the plane into it already en route, that disappeared there, as indicated by the flight box recorder....no way...I've got a better plan! we'll use a a magic missile with the car proof lamp pole knock down upgrade, at the last moment!

It's brilliant!

Honestly I don't see how anyone could think the missile scenario is crazy .....sigh all those sleeping sheeples always doubting the wide awake truthers calling them crazy!

LOL....aye carumba.

[Horn]

When has the government done anything efficiently or within reason, joboo?

Let alone that it was a impossible flight path for that ship, and the damage was not congruent with any previous or future plane crash.

[Horn]

Can you give me an idea of when you think that could of happened after the the impact?

After the impact.

If there was anything in that photo resembling a plane crash, I see nothing but a building collapse.

[Horn]

The glaring inconsistency in all this data, is that an airliner that could've had enough speed to shatter into bits upon impact (an impossibility with the official flight path given), in no way shape or form could have made it completely thru to the other side of the Pentagon.

Nothing would've been left to punch thru.

[Serpo]

http://beyondpoliticsand911.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Pentagon-damage-from-above.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=LbqKMoV2svGRDM&tbnid=SDX9Yt8bGmBxLM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADjxAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fletsrollforums.com%2F9-11-closer-look-t25006p4.html&ei=sDUTUf7TGsjUmAXErIHYCQ&psig=AFQjCNEyr4F4Oxnn1TjaKs24Z-O30f9lVQ&ust=1360299824469810)

[joboo]

So the natural assumption is they would use a specialized super penetrating missile that is completely unlike the composition of an airplane on top of it all just to make it more "convincing".

[Horn]

'Pentagon attacked by a cruise missile not a passenger plane'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811wNdiwpwQ

Leaked videos of the 9/11 attack against the Pentagon confirm eyewitness accounts that the attack was not carried out by a passenger plane as officially stated but was rather the work of a cruise missile hitting the building from a different angle.

"There were 85 videos; a second video was released yesterday (August 29). Now it hasn't been carefully vetted but it appears to be quite genuine that clearly shows a cruise missile from another angle hitting the Pentagon," Gordon Duff, senior editor of Veterans Today, told Press TV's U.S. Desk on Tuesday.

The people at the scene of the attack including CNN reporters say that they saw no plane wreckage following the attack, Duff added.

He said there are "reliable reports" from airline pilots stating that it would be "impossible" for the plane and any pilot including the top air force and navy pilots and the Top Gun instructors to have flown a plane to have accomplished what was accomplished.

"We have engineers at Boeing the company that manufactured the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon that say it couldn't fly that fast, it can't fly that low, it can't make those turns and it couldn't have been there," the investigative journalist added.

He further said that other physical evidence gathered at the scene of the attack against the Pentagon all indicate that it could not have been carried out by a passenger plane.

Duff concluded that “it is our belief that members of the U.S. government and one other foreign government were complicit in the planning and execution of the attacks on 9/11.”

http://www.presstv.com/usdetail/196598.html

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH1RO6LGu54

[vacuum]

http://beyondpoliticsand911.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Pentagon-damage-from-above.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=LbqKMoV2svGRDM&tbnid=SDX9Yt8bGmBxLM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADjxAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fletsrollforums.com%2F9-11-closer-look-t25006p4.html&ei=sDUTUf7TGsjUmAXErIHYCQ&psig=AFQjCNEyr4F4Oxnn1TjaKs24Z-O30f9lVQ&ust=1360299824469810)

It should be possible to use physics to determine what would make an impact like that. Figure out the amount of energy it would take to clear out that amount of cross section of building, then see if it's close to the energy of the plane upon impact.

[joboo]

'Pentagon attacked by a cruise missile not a passenger plane'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811wNdiwpwQ

Leaked videos of the 9/11 attack against the Pentagon confirm eyewitness accounts that the attack was not carried out by a passenger plane as officially stated but was rather the work of a cruise missile hitting the building from a different angle.

"There were 85 videos; a second video was released yesterday (August 29). Now it hasn't been carefully vetted but it appears to be quite genuine that clearly shows a cruise missile from another angle hitting the Pentagon," Gordon Duff, senior editor of Veterans Today, told Press TV's U.S. Desk on Tuesday.

The people at the scene of the attack including CNN reporters say that they saw no plane wreckage following the attack, Duff added.

He said there are "reliable reports" from airline pilots stating that it would be "impossible" for the plane and any pilot including the top air force and navy pilots and the Top Gun instructors to have flown a plane to have accomplished what was accomplished.

"We have engineers at Boeing the company that manufactured the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon that say it couldn't fly that fast, it can't fly that low, it can't make those turns and it couldn't have been there," the investigative journalist added.

He further said that other physical evidence gathered at the scene of the attack against the Pentagon all indicate that it could not have been carried out by a passenger plane.

Duff concluded that “it is our belief that members of the U.S. government and one other foreign government were complicit in the planning and execution of the attacks on 9/11.”

http://www.presstv.com/usdetail/196598.html

Gordon Duff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZufw3G931Q&feature=player_embedded

[PatColo]

I addressed the "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) issue quite a bit beginning here,
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?58055-Ryan-Dawson-War-By-Deception-9-11&p=507105&viewfull=1#post507105

and also in
Thread: Conspiracy Theory with Gov. Jesse Ventura- 911 Pentagon Attack (Full Episode) (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?40612-Conspiracy-Theory-with-Gov.-Jesse-Ventura-911-Pentagon-Attack-%28Full-Episode%29)

that's ^ a good show BTW; the HAHP clique went ballistic after that pentagon episode aired- went into ad-hom attack mode against Ventura, since that's all they had of course.

In this Oct '12 Kevin Barrett radio show blog for his show Did a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon? (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/2012/10/did-boeing-757-hit-pentagon-on-911.html), I commented:


Anonymous October 24, 2012 at 3:31 AM (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/2012/10/did-boeing-757-hit-pentagon-on-911.html?showComment=1351074700299#c37131689264152 81985)

[...]

But not much compared to the way the pentagon divisiveness exposed a whole slew of "deep cover agents", virtually all of whom I formerly believed were sincere.

And you know what nailed their cred coffins in my eyes? The principal voices of this newly formed "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) clique, who were formerly strictly objective in their articles/comments, & keen in their observance of the various disinfo ploys which the 911 perps/minions were using against us; then these same folks suddenly & conspicuously began deploying every fallacy in the 25 Rules of Disinfo (ad-homs, ridicule, straw men, question motives, etc) when seeking to make the HAHP position the "official 9/11 TM position".

And as Adam noted during this show, this new HAHP clique were plainly working together in coercing this fraudulent HAHP position upon the honest but relatively voiceless "little truthers" in the TM. So that's one of the huge victories I think this TJ show achieved: debunking the notion the the HAHP question is somehow "divisive", with the TM "split down the middle", which is total bull. Like you all agreed, this HAHP clique is perhaps 20 fake truthers who spent the early several years appearing sincere & building cred; then they attempted to pool their cred capital to torpedo questions surrounding HAHP, using brazenly dishonest "reasoning", but hoping their apparent "unanimity" will ram their HAHP disinfo gambit through, while shaming dissenters (most of the honest TM) into silence.

All they've achieved is to blow their respective deep-covers, in one fell swoop... LOL. Jonathan Pollard could hardly have done greater damage to the 911 TM's deep cover spook house.

Remember when they pretended to accept that the initial small round hole in the outside of the pentagon, was not in fact from the outside, but rather from inside, like pentagon ring 3 or whatever where the HIJACKED AIRLINER came to a stop? And this was obviously not the case... but numerous "big name" (fake) truthers were enforcing this surreal nonsense at the newly co-opted 911B.

And when Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory Pentagon show aired in Dec '10, making a very no-HAHP-friendly case; the 911B HAHP clique were howling their ridicule & disgust the following day, having only giving it 2nd Class posting visibility on their Blogs page. Full show, 43 mins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-18/conspiracy-theory-gov-jesse-ventura-911-pentagon-attackfull-episode



so when joobo spews hereabouts:



Read, and learn:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

Feel free to evaluate the site for how "anti" you think it is.
http://911research.wtc7.net/


... I must note, Jim Hoffman's 911research.wtc7.net is the #1 example of who I describe above as part of the 911 controlled opposition clique who, after years of cred-building, "disastrously" outed themselves en masse when they "united" in trying to ramrod their HAHP theory through to the "little truthers"-- desperately resorting to the Rules of Disinfo textbook in "making their case". They've been unsuccessful, as discussed in the Barrett show above (MP3 link (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-102212.mp3)), and were only "successful" in outing everyone in their clique as (formerly) deep cover agents. They keep plugging away with their disastrous HAHP gambit today though... with joobo here at GSUS representin', ad-hom'ing HAHP non-believers, and (trying to) 'flip the script & project (http://zioncrimefactory.com/2011/09/23/the-psychological-projections-of-organized-jewry/)' WRT how the evidence stacks up for/against HAHP vs missile/bomb(s) & no boeing @ Pentagon, while also (trying to) invert where the 'sane & rational' vs 'fringe/crazy/faith-based/yada-yada' folks are accordingly.

[joboo]

^ Bully/beratement mode activated.

The missile angle is being used as a tool to make the truth movement sound crazy.

Duff helped to spearhead it. Loose change pumped it out, Alex Jones preached it.

You're being conned while thinking the opposite.

You guys refuse to see it.

[Horn]

^ Bully/beratement mode activated.

The missile angle is being used as a tool to make the truth movement sound crazy.

Yes, its plastered all over MSNBC and CNN.

Investigative reports detailing lightweight plane aluminum drifting thru tons of reinforced concrete like butter and eye-witnessed flight paths, are all over the nightly news. Directed towards unsuspecting intelligent folks across the U.S.

Where do you come up with this moonbat bolony?

[joboo]

Gordon Duff is a total disinfo agent. He even admits it.

If you want an idea of how the deception works look up Simon Shack/Hytten, the maker of September clues. Another lynch pin in smashing down the truth movement.

You guys are falling right into the trap set out for you on this "it was a missile" thing. It's hard to watch. You're either not up to speed, or disinfo agents yourselves.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zYSGv5HNPxQ

Give a read make up your own mind...
http://letsrollforums.com/simon-shacks-brother-mario-t28060p3.html

[joboo]

It should be possible to use physics to determine what would make an impact like that. Figure out the amount of energy it would take to clear out that amount of cross section of building, then see if it's close to the energy of the plane upon impact.

Thank you for incorporating some slow brain thinking (the good kind) into the discussion. The picture Serpo posted is designed to elicit fast brain thinking, in order to form an instant conclusion, based on an assumption (aka it was a missile) without actually knowing for certain.

[PatColo]

^ Bully/beratement mode activated.

in this thread, readers can find the following snips where you berate "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) NON-believers as:


- It's retardation based on the lies from Loose Change, and perpetuated by Alex Jonestard
- Some serious Alex Jones promoted Loose change deprogramming needs to take place with this line of thinking
- caught up in a cult based thinking methodology, made their conclusions, then stopped thinking beyond it altogether from that point on
- susceptible to mistruths enshrined in cult like behavior. Sadly religion really does play a part in it
- crackpot theories
- preached (literally..as in cult)
- they have been subconsciously trained to believe, or simply just want to believe.
- Most of these individuals are faith based religious types.
- some of you are so wierded out over the whole GIM breakup thing it has scarred you intellectually into a permanent level of paranoia
- The entire missile angle offers as much to the debate as David icke and his shape shifting space lizards
- far fetched at best
- a billion times more far fetched
- Crazy even.
- those that trend off into wild assumptions
- continually decimates credibility
- see how many people would come up with crazy ideas?
- It's insanity
- this grand ultra ridiculous scheme of elaborate perplexity to no end
- The most complicated far fetched scenario imaginable
- this lunatic nonsensical truther angle
- For the love of god, and everything sane in this world, stop doing it!!
- a victim of Loose Change
- The propaganda of that video programmed your mind. You saw some random pictures with no time stamps, and now you're convinced of something.
- Was she lying?
- literally insane.
- All the missile hit the pentagon idiots are doing is fabricating the most unlikely scenario out of some kind of secret conspiratorial fantasy love affair of what they want to believe instead of what actually happened, and what all the evidence is showing.
- They were fed disinfo from a documentary called loose change, then someone they looked up like their hero ...Alex Jones...who literally preaches like a cult leader...drove it all home for them upstairs.. They are stuck in a cult mentality, and can't even see it.
- Anyone that has bothered to read what I've posted in this thread, and still insists it was a missile, is bordering on insanity.
- This is the very mindset that has derailed the 9II truth movement right into the dirt by getting it labeled as a bunch of tinfoil loons.
- Most of the same people arguing with me over that proven nonsensical baloney are arguing with me here as well.
- Something upstairs for them has been programmed to repeatedly form immediate conclusions without any legitimate evidence. It's a cult mentality method of thinking started by Alex Jones.
- What's pathetic, and lost are people that insist on forming conclusions based on skewed evidence
- Someone sounds like an idiot here that's for sure
- That woman in your video is either lying, or she was in shock out of her head, and does not remember very accurately.
- falling right into the trap set out for you on this "it was a missile" thing. It's hard to watch. You're either not up to speed, or disinfo agents yourselves

and the following snips are from Thread: Alex Jones taken behind the Woodshed (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?65704-Alex-Jones-taken-behind-the-Woodshed&p=594636&viewfull=1#post594636), where you berate zioncrimefactory as:


totally destroys their own credibility...brutally. Schizoid x 1000. Deep into moonbat territory
A couple loose screws running around
Are you on medication by any chance?
a bunch of paranoid delusional 15 year old's dosing mountain dew in their parents basements
Fuck me....Ron Paul must be a Joo too
short term degenerative memory condition
comprised of one outlandish nonsensical lie after another
total horseshit made up by paranoid delusional 15 year old's tweaking on mountain dew in their parents basement
seriously batshit crazy mofo
likes to brag about penis stat size
fallacious idiocy
Idiotic childish accusationbroad-brush racist nonsense
more blanket joo, and no plane pentagon conspiracy talk

^ "Bully/beratement mode activated", indeed! \uu\

A little more projection (http://zioncrimefactory.com/2011/09/23/the-psychological-projections-of-organized-jewry/) to go with your gefilte fish there, joobo? :rolleyes:

[PatColo]

CNN reporter at Pentagon 9/11 says no evidence of plane hitting near pentagon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPxI4XUx2LE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPxI4XUx2LE

[PatColo]

Why would anyone care to have accurate information on 9/11? I can think of endless reasons. Richard Gage would agree, and has done excellent work with it.

CIT conference in Arlington VA, latest video endorsed by Richard Gage, Peter Dale Scott, Ed Asner, David Ray Griffin & more.

(http://911blogger.com/node/20738)
"The exhaustive effort by Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis of Citizen Investigation Team to contact, record, document, and analyze numerous first-hand eyewitness accounts of the actual flight path of the airliner at the Pentagon on 9/11 has been long overdue, but worth waiting for. The evidence they have uncovered and compiled in their DVD "National Security Alert" deserves serious attention - particularly in light of what we now know about the explosive destruction of the three World Trade Center high-rises that day."
-Richard Gage, AIA, Architect, Founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth


“Citizen Investigation Team has produced an important documentary video that, using numerous independent witness accounts, successfully rebuts the official account of Flight 77’s flight path on 9/11 as it approached the Pentagon. It constitutes a further compelling reason for this country to investigate properly, for the first time, the full story of what happened on that day."
-Peter Dale Scott,
Former Canadian diplomat and English Professor at the University of California, Berkeley; Author, The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America


“Citizen Investigation Team have presented a reasoned, and methodical look at witness testimony the day the Pentagon was attacked on Sept. 11th. As stated in their presentation, National Security Alert, it behooves every citizen of conscience to question the offical story after viewing CIT's labors towards seeking the truth of what happened that day in 2001".
-Edward Asner, Emmy Award Winning Actor, Former President of the Screen Actors Guild


“This new film by CIT is far more professionally produced than their previous efforts. It is also more convincing, given the addition of more witnesses, so that they now have a total of 13 witnesses reporting that the actual flight path of the plane that approached the Pentagon was drastically different from the official flight path (which would have been needed if the plane was to knock over the felled light poles and to strike the Pentagon at the designated spot and angle). This part of the film's thesis is now established beyond a reasonable doubt. The film does not establish its related claim---that the airliner pulled up and flew over the Pentagon---as clearly, but it does make a good case for it. One of the film's most valuable parts is a scene in which cab driver Lloyde England, who otherwise gamely tried to maintain the truth of his testimony supporting the official story, admitted that the Pentagon operation had been planned by powerful people with lots of money. I am pleased to be able to recommend this important film with enthusiasm."
-David Ray Griffin, Author of The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé


"I was initially skeptical of CIT's findings. But after closer review of the numerous interviews contained in their documentaries, a strong case has been made for an approach trajectory for the plane said to be American Airlines Flight 77 that is hundreds of feet from the official trajectory. The on-scene physical evidence attributed to the official trajectory is incompatible with the trajectory repeatedly described by the witnesses presented and is arguably suspect. Aircraft speeds described in the interviews are also much lower than those alleged by official sources. CIT's documentaries provide the viewer with the transparency and real-time detail regarding events at the Pentagon on 9/11, not provided by accounts offered by the federal government or major media."
-Aidan Monaghan, Researcher


List of all current endorsements available here:
http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/praise.html





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

[Serpo]

Thank you for incorporating some slow brain thinking (the good kind) into the discussion. The picture Serpo posted is designed to elicit fast brain thinking, in order to form an instant conclusion, based on an assumption (aka it was a missile) without actually knowing for certain.

Its all a pile of evidence for whatever happened and as there is no photo of an incoming plane .......if there was a plane it would here in this photo..............more fast thinking..........
http://www.freeworldalliance.biz/Pictures/911/PentagonImpact.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=0ZRXt0jdCwnE9M&tbnid=ry6r17tGAHu-xM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freeworldalliance.biz%2F911.h tml&ei=44ATUZ6qN83SmAXY64CwBQ&psig=AFQjCNFSl88K6EGzkQ0pIObgdVWLcqxPPg&ust=1360319075927729)https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIscpIVsK4E2ejate4zXnOWaiUQSZoD nJ3UBO6kl0-e9Wdeq28
720 × 360 - notafreemason.com


(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6L5&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=640&bih=302&tbm=isch&tbnid=1uJ2bh2hrrsSlM:&imgrefurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html&docid=khwoxtNDbrYGLM&imgurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/the7thfire/pentagonxox30.jpg&w=720&h=360&ei=xYATUcrXH6zsmAWOvYD4AQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:88&iact=rc&dur=558&sig=101253205669592390935&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=280&start=0&ndsp=7&tx=54&ty=40)

[joboo]

in this thread, readers can find the following snips where you berate "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) NON-believers as:



and the following snips are from Thread: Alex Jones taken behind the Woodshed (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?65704-Alex-Jones-taken-behind-the-Woodshed&p=594636&viewfull=1#post594636), where you berate zioncrimefactory as:



^ "Bully/beratement mode activated", indeed! \uu\

A little more projection (http://zioncrimefactory.com/2011/09/23/the-psychological-projections-of-organized-jewry/) to go with your gefilte fish there, joobo? :rolleyes:


Nothing I said was directly leveled as personal attack. I am speaking to ideologies, concepts, situations, as being crazy far fetched etc... not directly to the individual.

Learn to recognize the difference!

You on the other hand....and you make it racist on top of it all!

So are you Zion Crime Factory?

Did I personally attack you? Was I speaking to you? Was I bullying you directly at the time?

[joboo]

Its all a pile of evidence for whatever happened and as there is no photo of an incoming plane .......if there was a plane it would here in this photo..............more fast thinking..........
http://www.freeworldalliance.biz/Pictures/911/PentagonImpact.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=0ZRXt0jdCwnE9M&tbnid=ry6r17tGAHu-xM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freeworldalliance.biz%2F911.h tml&ei=44ATUZ6qN83SmAXY64CwBQ&psig=AFQjCNFSl88K6EGzkQ0pIObgdVWLcqxPPg&ust=1360319075927729)https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIscpIVsK4E2ejate4zXnOWaiUQSZoD nJ3UBO6kl0-e9Wdeq28
720 × 360 - notafreemason.com


(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6L5&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=640&bih=302&tbm=isch&tbnid=1uJ2bh2hrrsSlM:&imgrefurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html&docid=khwoxtNDbrYGLM&imgurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/the7thfire/pentagonxox30.jpg&w=720&h=360&ei=xYATUcrXH6zsmAWOvYD4AQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:88&iact=rc&dur=558&sig=101253205669592390935&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=280&start=0&ndsp=7&tx=54&ty=40)

Those three grainy frames are so inconclusive it's unbelievable.

Take away all the photos, and you still have a highly likely, and extremely simple, scenario, v.s. the most convoluted, and contrived situation imaginable.

It's inescapable, and impossible to deny.

That last photo with the wingspan is simply incorrect btw...

[PatColo]

Nothing I said was directly leveled as personal attack. I am speaking to ideologies, concepts, situations, as being crazy far fetched etc... not directly to the individual.

Learn to recognize the difference!

You on the other hand....and you make it racist on top of it all!

So are you Zion Crime Factory?

Did I personally attack you? Was I speaking to you? Was I bullying you directly at the time?

you've been constantly (trying to) label/brand those who don't buy your/zion.gov's official "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) theory, as suffering from some colorfully-described variety of mental illness. So yes you were speaking to me, and to the majority of the 911 research community who share HAHP disbelief. Now you're disingenuously ducking bobbing & weaving in your denial of this conspicuous truth, insulting every reader's intelligence in the process. :(

A disinformation shill would try to propagate such bologna ^ in a bid to bully weaker minded readers from exploring or discussing with others whatever avenue of inquiry zion.gov/you are seeking to suppress... in this instance, the fact that Arab/Muslims had no significant role in the planning/orchestration of 911 (http://davidraygriffin.com/articles/was-america-attacked-by-muslims-on-911/), outside of being the patsies designated by the real 911 perps (http://rediscover911.com/who-did-911/).

joobo, as the self-posturing 'sane & rational' 911 researcher you are, what role if any do you speculate "Arab/Muslim Jihadists" played in 911? :|~


You on the other hand....and you make it racist™ on top of it all!

please quote whatever I wrote which triggered your highly tuned waycism-detector... again...???

[Cebu_4_2]

The joos just pissed that he can't disprove the video showing that Jackie did it... Hidden right in front of your eyes.

[PatColo]

rense radio last night, 50 mins, 20 MBs


Listen (http://www.talkshoe.com/resources/talkshoe/images/swf/lastEpisodePlayer.swf?fileUrl=http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/5k7es6tyg3/rense.20130206.2of2.mp3) Download (http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/5k7es6tyg3/rense.20130206.2of2.mp3) Hour 2 - Maj Gen Albert Stubblebine (http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/) - How The Government Has 'Discussions With A Dupe'

[Horn]

You on the other hand....and you make it racist on top of it all!

Its not being racist, joboo.

We're just making large scathing notes of your differences.

The pink, is it your natural color?

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/darwins-exceptions-dumb-people-29.jpg

[joboo]

The joos just pissed that he can't disprove the video showing that Jackie did it... Hidden right in front of your eyes.

Dude, that's your rabbit hole of delight. Don't associate me with first ladies blowing their husbands brains out right in front of everyone because of some grainy gov edited video. LOL.

[joboo]

you've been constantly (trying to) label/brand those who don't buy your/zion.gov's official "hijacked airliner hit pentagon" (HAHP) theory, as suffering from some colorfully-described variety of mental illness. So yes you were speaking to me, and to the majority of the 911 research community who share HAHP disbelief. Now you're disingenuously ducking bobbing & weaving in your denial of this conspicuous truth, insulting every reader's intelligence in the process. :(

A disinformation shill would try to propagate such bologna ^ in a bid to bully weaker minded readers from exploring or discussing with others whatever avenue of inquiry zion.gov/you are seeking to suppress... in this instance, the fact that Arab/Muslims had no significant role in the planning/orchestration of 911 (http://davidraygriffin.com/articles/was-america-attacked-by-muslims-on-911/), outside of being the patsies designated by the real 911 perps (http://rediscover911.com/who-did-911/).

joobo, as the self-posturing 'sane & rational' 911 researcher you are, what role if any do you speculate "Arab/Muslim Jihadists" played in 911? :|~





please quote whatever I wrote which triggered your highly tuned waycism-detector... again...???


I don't know what you ultimately believe. It could be anything. If that's what you believe then great, but I didn't direct it at you specifically by name.

There is a distinct difference.

[joboo]

So where did the plane go that was heading right for the pentag0n.

Where did it disappear to?

How complicated does it ultimately need to be v.s. just hitting the thing with the airplane already going right there which is all they needed to do.

It had to unfathomably complicated. v.s. excruciatingly simple. It just had to be.

Occam's razor calling...

[Horn]

How complicated does it ultimately need to be v.s. just hitting the thing with the airplane already going right there which is all they needed to do.

joboo, you have a zero comprehension level in aeronautics or physics,

trying to explain to you the difficulties of spearing a boeing nose first down a low slope, into the base of a building, is like trying to teach a 4 year old how to tie his shoes.

Nobody has time for it.

[PatColo]

joobo, as the self-posturing 'sane & rational' 911 researcher you are, what role if any do you speculate "Arab/Muslim Jihadists" played in 911? http://gold-silver.us/forum/images/smilies/300%20%2820%29.gif


You on the other hand....and you make it racist™ on top of it all!
please quote whatever I wrote which triggered your highly tuned waycism-detector... again...???

joobo, didn't catch your answers to ^, ???

[joboo]

joobo, didn't catch your answers to ^, ???

Go back and take a look.

[joboo]

joboo, you have a zero comprehension level in aeronautics or physics,

trying to explain to you the difficulties of spearing a boeing nose first down a low slope, into the base of a building, is like trying to teach a 4 year old how to tie his shoes.

Nobody has time for it.

I dunno my brother has a masters degree in aerospace engineering, and I did rather well in physics class myself.

What I feel time constrained for is conspiracy theories that form conclusions based on the most contrived realities imaginable v.s. the most simple.

You're going against the official narrative as a complete fabrication from top to bottom, then using the official narrative data again to form a conclusion.

Imo only such much of it could have been realistically faked due to the increasing complexity required.

Could the plane have hit that thing as depicted? I don't know but I do know it would have been very easy to hit it regardless despite how impossible it looks.

[Horn]

but I do know it would have been very easy to hit it regardless despite how impossible it looks.

And that's where I can tell you that you are completely wrong, and your brother must have purchased his degree.

It is impossible to the Nth degree, and exactly why those in the know call it that, impossible.

Just as a building falling on to itself without help from an outside force equal to or greater than it.

http://911truthaustralia.com/images/wtc7.gif

[joboo]

And that's where I can tell you that you are completely wrong, and your brother must have purchased degree.

It is impossible to the Nth degree, and exactly why those in the know call it that, impossible.

Just as a building falling on to itself without help from an outside force equal to or greater than it.

http://911truthaustralia.com/images/wtc7.gif

But you're saying this based on information coming from people that you think are lying to you about everything.

You trust them on this data but everything else is completely fake?

[vacuum]

Its all a pile of evidence for whatever happened and as there is no photo of an incoming plane .......if there was a plane it would here in this photo..............more fast thinking..........
http://www.freeworldalliance.biz/Pictures/911/PentagonImpact.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=0ZRXt0jdCwnE9M&tbnid=ry6r17tGAHu-xM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freeworldalliance.biz%2F911.h tml&ei=44ATUZ6qN83SmAXY64CwBQ&psig=AFQjCNFSl88K6EGzkQ0pIObgdVWLcqxPPg&ust=1360319075927729)
(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6L5&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=640&bih=302&tbm=isch&tbnid=1uJ2bh2hrrsSlM:&imgrefurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html&docid=khwoxtNDbrYGLM&imgurl=http://www.notafreemason.com/the7thfire/pentagonxox30.jpg&w=720&h=360&ei=xYATUcrXH6zsmAWOvYD4AQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:88&iact=rc&dur=558&sig=101253205669592390935&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=280&start=0&ndsp=7&tx=54&ty=40)
There are two key things to state here.

First is that the fireball pictured above does not look like an explosive. Explosives generally combust almost instantaneously because they don't require oxygen. They are basically a flash + smoke and debris.

On the other hand, fuel will create such a fireball. It requires oxygen to burn, so the vapors will be heated and move upwards, and create a bunch of flame in a cloud. It's like the difference between a firecracker (flash + smoke) and a cup of gasoline (fireball).

So the missile must have had fuel inside of it rather than a strictly explosive load. The other possibility is that this fuel could have been pre-planted on-site.


http://beyondpoliticsand911.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Pentagon-damage-from-above.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=LbqKMoV2svGRDM&tbnid=SDX9Yt8bGmBxLM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADjxAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fletsrollforums.com%2F9-11-closer-look-t25006p4.html&ei=sDUTUf7TGsjUmAXErIHYCQ&psig=AFQjCNEyr4F4Oxnn1TjaKs24Z-O30f9lVQ&ust=1360299824469810)


Second, if the missile detonated at the exterior of the building, it would not have been able to make it through 3 rings. Was the missile inert and penetrating? Or did it explode at the exterior? These seem mutually exclusive unless it was either a special non-stock missile, or they pre-planted either the fireball explosion on-site beforehand, or they did something to make the penetration cross-section in the building.

If it was one of those really big missiles that was specially loaded with fuel, it's possible some of it could have detonated at the exterior of the building and the momentum of the rest could have created the hole. But it definitely wouldn't be an off-the-shelf missile imo.

[Horn]

But you're saying this based on information coming from people that you think are lying to you about everything.

You trust them on this data but everything else is completely fake?

Not at all.

Mine eyes and the physical evidence presented is all that I need.

[joboo]

Not at all.

Mine eyes and the physical evidence presented is all that I need.

What evidence? Who produced it? Where did you get it from?

[Horn]

What evidence? Who produced it? Where did you get it from?

Saw it on the T.V.,

I just watch the pictures, the sound is off, music on.

Tchaikovsky is a favorite.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUES5PA0ALg

[joboo]

Saw it on the T.V.,

I just watch the pictures, the sound is off, music on.

Tchaikovsky is a favorite.



Three frames of a grainy blob hitting the pentagon or are you talking about 1,2, & 7?

I wasn't aware you switched to another subject.

If the whole Pentag0n thing is considered to be a gigantic deception, then everything they are telling you must also be assumed to be a deception.

It can't be both ways just to make it work the way you want it to.

Oui/non?

[Horn]

A soon as I saw the slope from the highway to the base of the building.

This guy breaks it down somewhat with elevation markers.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/a1-Frame1.jpg

The hole at the opposite side was ancillary.

[PatColo]

joobo, as the self-posturing 'sane & rational' 911 researcher you are, what role if any do you speculate "Arab/Muslim Jihadists" played in 911? http://gold-silver.us/forum/images/smilies/300%20%2820%29.gif




You on the other hand....and you make it racist™ on top of it all!



please quote whatever I wrote which triggered your highly tuned waycism-detector... again...???

Go back and take a look.

right-o, looked again, still find no indication of your views on either what role if any you speculate "Arab/Muslim Jihadists" played in 911, nor on what specific quote written by me has triggered your highly tuned waycism-detector... again...

please advise, ???

[joboo]

A soon as I saw the slope from the highway to the base of the building.

This guy breaks it down somewhat with elevation markers.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/a1-Frame1.jpg

The hole at the opposite side was ancillary.

But the guys that faked everything are producing this info for you to control what you think. Right?

How can you trust it either way to form a conclusion if it's all based on lies and deception?

Maybe they only released that one specific video on purpose to elicit an expected reaction?

Do you know for certain?

[Horn]

Do you know for certain?

In your estimation, what is the distance between the highway and the Pentagon, joboo?

Is there a change in elevation from highway bridge to Pentagon base?

At what height is the exit hole?

Do you want to know one of the only pieces equipment built by man that could achieve a level change over that distance at speeds indicated?

[joboo]

In your estimation, what is the distance between the highway and the Pentagon, joboo?

Is there a change in elevation from highway bridge to Pentagon base?

At what height is the exit hole?

Do you want to know one of the only pieces equipment built by man that could achieve a level change over that distance at speeds indicated?

You're basing the elevation on the information that they told you was on the black box. They released a second report afterwards with new black box data. You are trusting it all to be true.

Who knows what evidence has been withheld, released, altered, and for what reasons?

Capture all the information, i.e. videos from across the street, and all the other cameras, pictures etc..then release only certain information that is controversial, little bits and pieces at a time, wait....gauge public reaction, then withhold or release more to control the desired result.