The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Pro thread. G Rated. [Archive] - Page 2

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 05:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IjBi1eEaAA

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/new-world.html

Fanatical baloney such a this could only have come from the United States. There is a miasma of stupid prevalent in this land.

The United States had never been anticipated in that font of all wisdom, the Bible, but the salesmen of the Lord would rewrite and reinterpret scripture to minimize the shortcoming.

As it happened, the ancient Land of the Pharaohs, with all its biblical connotations, burst back into European consciousness as a consequence of the French occupation of Egypt in 1798. Napoleon's France, having been ejected from North America, made a strike towards British India by landing an army near Alexandria. During the next three years French scholars followed the army south to Aswan and east into Palestine, acquiring "treasures" and amassing the information that would fill 22 volumes of the Descriptions de L'Egypte.

This authoritative and defining tome of Egyptology informed literate minds for generations and led directly to the work of the Orientalist, Jean François Champollion. Between 1814 and 1824, Champollion published his pioneering decipherment of previously unreadable ancient Egyptian script. With his formidable language skills and a close study of the Rosetta Stone, the young scholar had solved "the mystery of the hieroglyphics".

Some of the excitement of Egyptology, but none of the scholarship, found its way to upstate New York. By the 1830s, mummies, Egyptian artifacts and papyri were the razzmatazz of travelling showmen, one of whom captured the interest and fired the imagination of another young man, Joseph Smith. Joe bought himself a common funeral papyrus and decided to "translate" it. With his experience of digging for treasure, a rudimentary knowledge of Indian history and a few words of Hebrew he set about concocting a fabulous yarn that put America centre stage in the fable of Jesus. He now had all he needed to "restore" the true faith. Smith's subsequent antics, of fleecing gullible followers, organising a militia to intimidate his critics and collecting a harem, so enraged the locals that Joe got himself killed. The church he founded, however, became the most successful cult in modern history: the Mormons.

Smith was but one in a long and ignoble succession of religious fraudsters that flourished – and continue to flourish – in the land of liberty and credulity.

Joseph Smith and the Mormons

Born in Vermont in 1805, the future prophet and "Latter Day Saint", Joe Smith, was raised in Manchester, New York, where his eccentric father initiated the young lad in the arcane arts of divination, talismanic "magic" and digging for treasure. Obviously thrilled with this power, the boy assembled a collection of "seer stones" and went hunting for buried Indian gold. The treasure he actually found was the realization that he could fool ignorant farmers into believing all manner of nonsense.

By the time he was 30 Smith had refined his act. In the wondrous tome The Book of Mormon, published in 1830, he boldly asserted that the angel Moroni had appeared to him several years earlier and had disclosed the existence of hidden golden plates, which a magic stone had allowed Smith to translate from "reformed Egyptian" (an otherwise unknown language). Smith's "translation", the Book of Mormon, told how the descendants of the ancient Israelites had gone to America, and how Christ himself had appeared there after his crucifixion. This hokum rapidly won Smith a following among simple farm folk, impressed by even a modicum of "learning" – blissfully unaware that Smith had copied most of his yarn from unpublished manuscripts taken from a Rev. Solomon Spaulding, a writer of historical romances on a Biblical theme.

The charismatic Smith led his camp followers to pastures new – Fayette, Kirtland, Nauvoo, driven on by the resentment of non-Mormons. Like Mohammad, centuries earlier, Smith received further "revelations" as circumstances required. One notorious revelation gave Smith a special dispensation to take multiple wives (Mohammad got the same dispensation!). Joe's diverse writings from the years 1830-1842 were published in a second sacred tome Pearl Of Great Price. Among the book's more extraordinary assertions was the claim that both God and Christ had appeared to Smith and that John the Baptist had anointed Joe into the "Aaronic Priesthood".

The happy reign of the prophet came to an abrupt end when Smith was jailed for instigating the wrecking of the offices of a newspaper (run by ex-Mormons) critical of his cult. A mob stormed the jail and shot Smith and his brother Hyrum. The martyrdom split the Mormons. The larger group followed ex-Methodist Brigham Young, so-called "President of the Quorum of The Twelve Apostles".

Young led some 16,000 Saints west to the Great Salt Lake and proceeded to establish a theocracy, fiercely hostile to outsiders, including the US Army. The enmity led to the notorious Mountain Meadow Massacre of 1857 when Mormons executed 120 men, women and children from a passing wagon train. Brigham Young tried to blame Indians for the outrage but 20 years later a Mormon leader was executed for the crime.

Janadele

6th August 2012, 05:23 PM

Do you believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers?

sirgonzo, I replied earlier to your posted question on this matter, as below.

John the Revelator beheld in vision some of the scenes that had been enacted in the spirit-world before the beginning of human history. He witnessed strife and contention between loyalty and rebellion, with the hosts defending the former led by Michael the archangel, and the rebellious forces captained by Satan, who is also called the devil, the serpent, and the dragon. We read: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."

In this struggle between unembodied hosts the forces were unequally divided; Satan drew to his standard only a third part of the children of God, who are symbolized as the "stars of heaven"; the majority either fought with Michael, or at least refrained from active opposition, thus accomplishing the purpose of their "first estate"; while the angels who arrayed themselves on
the side of Satan "kept not their first estate," and therefore rendered themselves ineligible for the glorious possibilities of an advanced condition or "second estate." The victory was with Michael and his angels; and Satan or Lucifer, theretofore a "son of the morning," was cast out of heaven, yea "he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

The Prophet Isaiah, to whom these momentous occurrences had been revealed about eight centuries prior to the time of John's writings, laments with inspired pathos the fall of so great a one; and specifies selfish ambition as the occasion: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Justification for citing these scriptures in connection with our present consideration will be found in the cause of the great contention -- the conditions that led to this war in heaven. It is plain from the words of Isaiah that Lucifer, already of exalted rank, sought to aggrandize himself without regard to the rights and agency of others. The matter is set forth, in words that none may misapprehend, in a revelation given to Moses and repeated through the first prophet of the present dispensation:

"And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying -- Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honour. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me -- Father, thy will be
done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down; and he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice."

Thus it is shown that prior to the placing of man upon the earth, how long before we do not know, Christ and Satan, together with the hosts of the spirit-children of God, existed as intelligent individuals, possessing power and opportunity to choose the course they would pursue and the leaders whom they would follow and obey. In that great concourse of spirit-intelligences,
the Father's plan, whereby His children would be advanced to their second estate, was submitted and doubtless discussed. The opportunity so placed within the reach of the spirits who were to be privileged to take bodies upon the earth was so transcendently glorious that those heavenly multitudes burst forth into song and shouted for joy.

Satan's plan of compulsion, whereby all would be safely conducted through the career of mortality, bereft of freedom to act and agency to choose, so circumscribed that they would be compelled to do right -- that one soul would not be lost -- was rejected; and the humble offer of Jesus the Firstborn -- to assume mortality and live among men as their Exemplar and Teacher, observing the sanctity of man's agency but teaching men to use aright that divine heritage -- was accepted. The decision brought war, which resulted in the vanquishment of Satan and his angels, who were cast out and deprived of the
boundless privileges incident to the mortal or second estate. In that august council of the angels and the Gods, the Being who later was born in flesh as Mary's Son, Jesus, took prominent part, and there was He ordained of the Father to be the Savior of mankind.
James E.Talmage, Apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-daySaints.

Graded Intelligences in the Antemortal State. -- That the spirits of men existed as individual intelligences, of varying degrees of ability and power, prior to the inauguration of the mortal state upon this earth and even prior to the creation of the world as a suitable abode for human beings, is shown in great plainness through a divine revelation to Abraham: "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; and God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born." (Abr. 3:22-23.)

That both Christ and Satan were among those exalted intelligences, and that Christ was chosen while Satan was rejected as the future Savior of mankind, are shown by the portions of the revelation immediately following that above quoted: "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep
their first estate shall be added upon, and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads forever and ever. And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him." (Abr. 3:24-28.)

The Primeval Council in the Heavens. -- "It is definitely stated in the Book of Genesis that God said, `Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'; and again, after Adam had taken of the forbidden fruit the Lord said, `Behold, the man has become as one of us'; and the inference is direct that in all that related to the work of the creation of the world there was a
consultation; and though God spake as it is recorded in the Bible, yet it is evident He counseled with others. The scriptures tell us there are `Gods many and Lords many. But to us there is but one God, the Father' (1 Cor. 8:5). And for this reason, though there were others engaged in the creation of the worlds, it is given to us in the Bible in the shape that it is; for the
fulness of these truths is only revealed to highly favored persons for certain reasons known to God; as we are told in the scriptures: `The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.' -- Psalm 25: 14.

"It is consistent to believe that at this Council in the heavens the plan that should be adopted in relation to the sons of God who were then spirits, and had not yet obtained tabernacles, was duly considered. For, in view of the creation of the world and the placing of men upon it, whereby it would be possible for them to obtain tabernacles, and in those tabernacles obey laws of life, and with them again be exalted among the Gods, we are told that at that time, `the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.' The question then arose, how, and upon what principle, should the salvation, exaltation and eternal glory of God's sons be brought about? It is evident that at that Council certain plans had been proposed and discussed, and that after a full discussion of those principles, and the declaration of the Father's will pertaining to His design, Lucifer came before the Father with a plan of his own, saying, `Behold [here am] I; send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore, give me thine honor.' But Jesus, on hearing this statement made by Lucifer, said, `Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.' From these remarks made by the well beloved Son, we should naturally infer that in the discussion of this subject the Father had made known His will and developed His plan and design pertaining to these matters, and all that His well beloved Son wanted to do was to carry out the will of His Father, as it would appear had been before expressed. He also wished the glory to be given to His Father, who, as God the Father, and the originator and designer of the plan, had a right to all the honor and glory.

But Lucifer wanted to introduce a plan contrary to the will of his Father, and then wanted His honor, and said: `I will save every soul of man, wherefore give me thine honor.' He wanted to go contrary to the will of his Father, and presumptuously sought to deprive man of his free agency, thus making him a serf, and placing him in a position in which it was impossible for him to obtain that exaltation which God designed should be man's, through obedience to the law which He had suggested; and again, Lucifer wanted the honor and power of his Father, to enable him to carry out principles which were contrary to the Father's wish."
-- John Taylor, Mediation and Atonement, pp. 93-94

sirgonzo420

6th August 2012, 05:24 PM

What about mormons who aren't good enough to have their own planet... do they all go to Hell with Jesus's brother or are they reincarnated until they become good enough?

I suppose non-mormons all go to hell...?

Also, I'd still like to know if I Kolob is visible to the naked eye, or with aid of a telescope.

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 05:27 PM

What about mormons who aren't good enough to have their own planet... do they all go to Hell with Jesus's brother or are they reincarnated until they become good enough?

I suppose non-mormons all go to hell...?

That may be contradictory, as hell is being around Mormons.

sirgonzo420

6th August 2012, 05:32 PM

That may be contradictory, as hell is being around Mormons.

I take it that you don't want your own planet?

That's kinda funny because I detect in you a bit of a hint of a "world-domination-aspiration" streak.

;D

I'm sorry Janadele, but mormons are weird.

So jana, what do the markings on the garments mean? Are these sacred undies only available for purchase from the LDS Inc?

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 05:36 PM

I take it that you don't want your own planet?

That's kinda funny because I detect in you a bit of a hint of a "world-domination-aspiration" streak.

I already own half of Tau Boötis b; Geoffrey lost it in a bet.

On a completely unrelated note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMM3V0lITcM&feature=related

Janadele

6th August 2012, 05:48 PM

Old Herb Lady

6th August 2012, 05:59 PM

OMG this thread is insane.

Mitt Romney mormon jew lover for prez 2012 ?

Thanks for reminding me once again how very blessed I am for not BELIEVING in a special church with special rules and special beliefs
with a special underwear and extra special righteous ways yadda yadda yadda better than the rest of us .

How I thank God that I can worship and love and praise the Father, Son & Holy Spirit DIRECTLY & not indirectly thru LDS and not have to explain
questions & answers about my cultish church and why it's the right one. Why do Christian denominations always try to outdo each other ?

"well ours has this, so well OURS has this, No but ours DOES this, yours don't do that, why doesn't yours do that, well yours worships on the wrong day,
no mine is the right day yours is the wrong day, why do you do that ritual, cuz that's what i was taught while i was growing up thats why, mine's still better"
yaddda yadda....BORING !!!!!!

BTW......I am directly linked to a several AWESOME Mormons and they know not to try to mess with my head. We respect each other completely.

Answer the questions in this thread that people have asked. Have you missed any ?

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 06:01 PM

Why do Christian denominations always try to outdo each other ?

Money.

Old Herb Lady

6th August 2012, 06:16 PM

Money.

yeah, but they brainwash their parishioners that "THIS IS THE WAY" in all of them.

It's nice to go to any Christian church, just don't get brainwashed into believing the rituals and/or beliefs that have been distorted and then come out
telling the world how it's the RIGHT one & go against another denomination that is CHRISTIAN ! LOL ! Makes no sense.
I don't think Jesus would appreciate all this propaganda.

Even poor people that don't have any money to give to the church.......they get brainwashed too and they just need to be nurtured & fed & to hear God's
message of truth & love & salvation without all the propaganda. To receive God's love is free. People let other people (cults) get in their way of receiving Him
and it more than just money, it's about power.

Edited to add: the easiest way to EVER get ANYONE into a cult is to preach the wrong teachings to a person who is at their
lowest/weakest point in their life...then they are IN....too late....unless they can escape it later like we here all escaped the
teachings about history , govt, banks, frn vs real money etc

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 06:19 PM

Religious belief and observance is inversely correlated to both income and IQ. As the current state of affairs so readily demonstrates, it is very easy to brainwash morons.

Old Herb Lady

6th August 2012, 06:32 PM

Religious belief and observance is inversely correlated to both income and IQ. As the current state of affairs so readily demonstrates, it is very easy to brainwash morons.

God isn't about religion. Religion isn't about God.
Income and IQ don't have anything to do with the ability to love God.
The ability to have someone/church/cult etc to have POWER over them allows them to be brainwashable.
God frees the person who goes direcctly to Him and stops following the masses/droves of the brainwashed.

sirgonzo420

6th August 2012, 06:34 PM

sirgonzo... Only worthy LDS members who have a Temple Recommend are able to enter an LDS Temple. It is the House of the Lord, and sacred ground. If you wish to have knowledge of Temple matters then you will need to first obtain a Temple Recommend.

All other teachings, doctrines, and matters pertaining to the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, LDS Chapels, and other LDS buildings are open to all genuine seekers of truth.

I don't think I wanna go runnin' up in y'all's temple just yet.

easy question, but let's see how honestly you answer it: is mormonism MONOtheistic or POLYtheistic?

Also, is the Garden of Eden in Missouri?

Skirnir_

6th August 2012, 07:05 PM

I don't think I wanna go runnin' up in y'all's temple just yet.

easy question, but let's see how honestly you answer it: is mormonism MONOtheistic or POLYtheistic?

Also, is the Garden of Eden in Missouri?

Why are you asking such questions; this is supposed to be a "pro thread", meaning only "pawsitiv" things about that moronic cult are permitted.

She will likely evade the question, just like before.

Horn

6th August 2012, 07:34 PM

I'm sorry Janadele, but mormons are weird.

So jana, what do the markings on the garments mean? Are these sacred undies only available for purchase from the LDS Inc?

Stay away from the underpants question, gonzo.

That's my turf... :)

God bless my underwear, my only pair.
Stand beside them, and guide them,
Through the rips, through the holes, through the tears.
From the washer, to the dryer, to my backpack, to my rear.
God bless my underwear, my only pair.
God bless my underwear, or I'll be bare.

God bless my underwear
That I wear down there.
I outgrow them, then throw them,
Those who wear them will never be square
When the bully, gives a wedgie
Pray that they won’t ever tear
God bless my underwear, my only pair.
God bless my underwear, or I’ll need to share.

sirgonzo420

6th August 2012, 07:38 PM

Stay away from the underpants question, gonzo.

That's my turf...

Thank God(s).

I can't cover it all. Too much material.

Horn

6th August 2012, 07:43 PM

Thank God(s).

I can't cover it all. Too much material.

Just another day on the magic bus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqmOF-cq0c

Janadele

6th August 2012, 11:39 PM

Of course :)

... is the Garden of Eden in Missouri?

Adam-ondi-Ahman,

Hymn 49 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

1. This earth was once a garden place,
With all her glories common,
And men did live a holy race,
And worship Jesus face to face,
In Adam-ondi-Ahman.

2. We read that Enoch walked with God,
Above the pow’r of mammon,
While Zion spread herself abroad,
And Saints and angels sang aloud,
In Adam-ondi-Ahman.

3. Her land was good and greatly blest,
Beyond all Israel’s Canaan;
Her fame was known from east to west,
Her peace was great, and pure the rest
Of Adam-ondi-Ahman.

4. Hosanna to such days to come,
The Savior’s second coming,
When all the earth in glorious bloom
Affords the Saints a holy home,
Like Adam-ondi-Ahman.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872. Included in the first LDS hymnbook, 1835.

Music: Anon., Southern Harmony, 1835

D&C 116:1

D&C 107:53–57

Janadele

7th August 2012, 12:21 AM

... is mormonism MONOtheistic or POLYtheistic?

Latter-day Saints are not polytheists in any reasonable sense of the term that does not also exclude most other Christians who deny the Modalist heresy. Trying to reduce LDS thought to a simple term or "slogan" in this way distorts LDS doctrine.
The Saints worship one God. There are no competing divinities in whom they put their trust. LDS scripture contains such language (1 Nephi 13:41, 2 Nephi 31:21, Mosiah 15:1-5, Alma 11:26-37, Mormon 7:7, DC 20:28, Moses 1:20), but it is qualified in somewhat the same way that Creedal Christians have found a way of saying "three"—as in Trinity—and yet also one.
Almost invariably when someone claims Mormons are polytheists, they are not seeking a clear explanation of Mormon thought on the nature of God, but are simply using a word with negative connotations in our religious culture as a club to intimidate or confuse others.
There really is not a single word that adequately captures LDS thought on the nature of God. Pertinent key technical terminology includes the following:
Monotheism (belief that there is only one God)
Tritheism (understanding the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as distinct Gods)
Polytheism (worship of, or belief in, more than one God)
Henotheism (worship of one God without denying the existence of other Gods; also called Monolatry)
Trinitarianism (belief that God consists of three Persons in one substance)
Social Trinitarianism (belief that the oneness of the three Persons is not one of substance but is social in nature [e.g., unity of thought, etc.])
Modalism (belief that there is only one God that does not exist as three separate Persons but rather manifests itself in three different "modes" [i.e., as Father, Son, or Holy Ghost])
Usually the very same people who are pressing the case that Latter-day Saints are polytheists are some stripe of Evangelical Christians who claim to be monotheists. But Trinitarians are not monotheists by definition.
The facts that Latter-day Saints do not believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one in substance, and believe in deification/theosis (that humans may eventually become deified and become partakers in the divine nature), has been used to paint Mormons as polytheists. When we examine the technical terminology above, though, it becomes clear that a key point of demarcation is worship versus acknowledgment of existence. Members of the LDS Church do not worship an extensive pantheon like the Greeks or Romans. In the context of doctrinal differences over the relationship among the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, however, or the doctrine of deification (which is a profoundly Christian doctrine and not just a LDS one), use of the word "polytheistic" as a pejorative is both inaccurate and inappropriate.
Instead of using a single-word label, one must actually articulate the belief (using fully-developed sentences or paragraphs). The single-word label that will adequately describe the full breadth of LDS thought on the nature of God has yet to be coined.
Most brands of Christians insist on the divinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In addition, the very word those who crafted the great ecumenical creeds used to describe the deity of Jesus, his Father and the Holy Spirit is "trinity," meaning three. Additionally, they insisted the three Persons should not be confounded, as such would be deemed modalism (one of the primary heresies that led to the formation of the ecumenical creeds and various confessions). Modalism often insists the one God merely appears to us in three different ways (i.e., as Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and this is exactly what the creeds deny.
The Bible contains language indicating human beings can put on the divine nature and be called "gods" (see John 10:33, 34; Ps. 82:6, Deut. 10:17, etc.). They are instructed to become one with Jesus just as he is one with his Father. The key point to realize is that any existence of other beings with godly attributes has no effect on who Latter-day Saints worship:
We worship God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ - not glorious angels or Abraham or Moses or John the Baptist, no matter how great they may be in the kingdom of heaven as sons of God who have become "like Christ" (1 John 3:2). The only reasonable definition of polytheism requires that plural gods be worshiped - but the beings that Christ calls "gods" are not who we worship at all. In terms of worship, we are properly called monotheists.
Additionally, there is abundant evidence of deification being taught by various commonly accepted Christians. If belief in theosis makes one a polytheist, many Christians would have to be so labeled - including such figures as C. S. Lewis and John Calvin. Clearly, this is not the way in which the term "polytheist" is normally used, but critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are often willing to be inconsistent if the LDS Church can be made to look alien or "unchristian."
"Monotheism" is sufficiently broad to include the kind of oneness enjoyed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as well as that promised to those who become one with them when fully sanctified.

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 06:19 AM

For those who are looking for informaion about the mormon church and history there are a couple of books that are well researched by former mormons. Mormonism Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner is a good one. Below is a link to Lighthouse Ministry started by them and a quote from their site about them.

http://www.utlm.org/navaboutus.htm

Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry is a Christian non-profit organization providing humanitarian outreach to the Community, and printing critical research and documentation on the LDS Church. Originally founded as Modern Microfilm Co. by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, the company was reorganized as a non-profit organization on January 1, 1983, and the name was changed to Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry.
Jerald and Sandra Tanner were raised in the LDS faith, both with a strong Mormon family history. Jerald is the great-great-grandson of John Tanner, well known for his sizeable financial contributions to Joseph Smith and the LDS church in 1835 when the church was deeply in debt. Sandra Tanner is a great-great-granddaughter of Brigham Young, the second president of the Mormon Church.
As teenagers, before they met, Jerald and Sandra were challenged by different people and events to examine the origins of Mormonism. Soon after their introduction, they jointly began researching Mormonism and became engaged. Both accepted Christ during these early years of study and have left the Mormon church. They are both active members of a local Christian church in Salt Lake City.
The Tanners are authors of over forty books on the subject of Mormonism. They are well known for their extensive research into Mormon history and doctrine. Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry provides these books and research, as well as photocopies and reprints of original Mormon documents to the public.

k-os

7th August 2012, 06:20 AM

Janadele, you have a way of responding to questions that makes it obvious which questions you are uncomfortable with. You have a "tell", in other words. In case you haven't figured it out by now, you are doing your religion a disservice here. The people of this board are just too smart for you. If you are doing this on your own, I would imagine the people of your faith would be rather annoyed with you, to say the least. If you are being paid to post this kind of stuff . . . I'd call in my supervisor if I were you.

I personally don't care what your religion is, how you practice, what underwear you wear, etc., but you started this thread, here, for all to see. (OK, I admit it, the underwear stuff is interesting.) While I empathize with your desires here, I think it would be wise to give up, or move on to some other forum where you might have a chance. You are being torn to shreds, and I feel sorry for you.

chad

7th August 2012, 06:24 AM

it's obvious she's been dispatched to boards to do pro-mormon propaganda. easy questions she answers, hard ones she cuts and pastes something from an lds website, song, or book of mormon and avoids it. it's comical, really. k-os is right, this isn't the fox news message board. everyone here is in on the joke and is laughing at you.

DMac

7th August 2012, 06:29 AM

undgrd

7th August 2012, 06:41 AM

I got a kick out her running to MF for help! "Please Mr. Mod...won't you make these heathens and doubters agree with me?"

PS: I demand NO negative responses to this post. If necessary, I will start my own thread to guarantee this.

chad

7th August 2012, 06:54 AM

also, at this point, people are only asking questions to mock & troll you. nobody is really interested in your answers (except maybe gonzo, but he is REALLY trolling you. he is just asking for maximum ownage points 3 posts later). if you really want to be effective at this, you should try huffingtonpost, fox news, yahoo boards, etc.

sorry gonzo, i was enjoying it, but i think she really believes people here are "reachable."

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 08:05 AM

I want to take this opportunity to post a couple of more books that present the real history of Joseph Smith and Bringum Young.

No Man Knows My HIstory, The life of Joseph Smith by Fawn M. Brodie. This is a well researched book of him and his church. If You're interested in mormonism it's a must read along with Jerald and Sandra Tanners " Mormanism, Shadow or Reality?".

Another book that is a good read is "Wife No. 19" by Ann Eliza Young one of Bringum Youngs wives. These are the opening comments from this book. It can be downloaded and read for free I believe here. http://www.ebershoff.com/ann.html

Entered, according to Act of Congress, in the year 1875,
By DUSTIN, GILMAN & CO.,
In the Office of the Librarian of Congress, at Washington, D. C.

Electrotyped at the Boston Stereotype Foundry, 19 Spring Lane.

To the Mormon Wives of Utah

I Dedicate this Book to you, as I consecrate my life to your cause.

As long as God gives me life I shall pray and lead for your deliverance from the worse than Egyptian bondage in which you are held.

Despised. maligned, and wronged; kept in gross ignorance of the great world, its pure creeds, its high aims, its generous motives. you have been made to believe that the noblest nation of the earth was truly represented by the horde of miscreants who drove you from State to State. In early years murdering your sons and assassinating ,our leaders.

Hence, you shrink from those whom God will soon lead to your deliverance, from those to whom I daily present your claims to a hearing and liberation, and who listen with responsive and sympathetic hearts.

But He will not long permit you to be so wickedly deceived nor will the People permit you to be so cruelly enslaved.

Hope and pray Come out of the house of bondage! Kind hearts beat for you! Open hands will welcome you! Do not fear that while God lives you shall suffer uncared for in the wilderness! This Christian realm is not "Babylon," but THE PROMISED LAND!

Courage! The night of oppression is nearly ended, and the sun of liberty is rising in the heavens for you.

ANN-ELIZA YOUNG.

JohnQPublic

7th August 2012, 11:17 AM

Alright. Let's not be too hard on Janadele. She had the courage to come here and present her case. Now that I am discussing geocentrism, I can attest that it is not easy to present difficult subjects. Janadele needs to follow through and start discussing rather than preaching. This will show whether she is a genuine truth seeker or just plugging ideology (religious or otherwise).

madfranks

7th August 2012, 11:18 AM

For those of you who are interested, Dr. Walter Martin did a dialogue with a real life Mormon missionary back in '84. It's not too long but is very informative.

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-uKTXhS-tw

madfranks

7th August 2012, 11:19 AM

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9ujtBbm_c

Janadele

7th August 2012, 11:47 AM

JohnQPublic

7th August 2012, 12:04 PM

A... This would have been an easy income source :D Divorce is always an unfortunate and many ex's are bitter.

Contest her points. The mormon church is quite rich (from Mitt alone!). This is an easy income source. Therefor ? The mormon Church is a fraud?

Janadele, I am trying to help you. Please present your case with facts, not conjecture.

Janadele

7th August 2012, 12:18 PM

Thank you John, but as I previously posted I have no interest in wasting my time on anti-Mormon propaganda. It is irrelevant to the eternal Gospel of Jesus Christ. Lucifer is busier in these last days than he has ever been. It is a testing and tiring time but one which will sift the tares from the wheat, and those who fall by the wayside will have eternity to ponder their regrets.

sirgonzo420

7th August 2012, 12:22 PM

So is Adam our God, or was Brigham Young wrong?

Janadele

7th August 2012, 12:36 PM

President George Albert Smith strongly cautioned, “If you cross to the devil’s side of the line one inch, you are in the tempter’s power, and if he is successful, you will not be able to think or even reason properly, because you will have lost the spirit of the Lord.”

There have always been two great competing forces in the world. These began before the world was created. These opposing forces are the forces of good and evil. Between these two powerful forces each of us is caught in a tug of war. In simple terms, that which is good comes from God, and that which is evil comes from the devil.

There is a continuing sifting process going on. We are reminded of the parable of the wheat and the tares. In that parable the Lord said, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field,” but while he slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the grain, so that when the blades of wheat sprouted, so did the weeds. The man’s workers did not understand how weeds got into the field and asked if they should go and pull the weeds. The owner of the field said no, because while you pull the weeds, you also pull up the grain. So he counseled that the grain and the weeds grow together until the time of harvest, when the wheat would be bundled separately from the weeds.

The disciples of Jesus asked the Savior for an interpretation of the parable, and the Savior answered: “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

“The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

“The enemy that sowed them is the devil; … and the reapers are the angels.

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.”

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/04/the-devils-throat?lang=eng&query=tares

Shami-Amourae

7th August 2012, 12:40 PM

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

And it came to pass...

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 12:43 PM

Ann Eliza Webb Young, a later wife of Brigham Young, divorced him, published an anti-Mormon book, and spent much of her time giving anti-Mormon, anti-polygamy lectures. An easy income source :D Divorce is always unfortunate and many ex's are bitter. The same can be said of Fawn, and of the Tanners... who founded the Lighthouse Ministry. ex's are rarely a credible source.

Have you read her book Janadele? It you haven't you should and I think you should also read the other two books I mentioned. They are very well researched and you could learn a lot of things the mormon church really doesn't want it's members to know about. They warn their members and those who are thinking about joining not to read them.

A lot of devout mormons have found their way out of mormonism to christianity and are better for it. Tamra Jean Braithwaite did and she wrote a book about her journey called "A Mormon Odyssey". The first three chapters of it can be read at this link.

http://www.exmormon.org/journey/journey_a.htm

Janadele

7th August 2012, 12:53 PM

Why would I read her book Tumleweed? I have the Prophets words to read, the eternal Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost to guide me. Lucifer may knock, but is not allowed entrance to my world. Get thou behind me Satan, is my answer.

The sun is rising over paradise, the seas are calm, and I am now stepping out onto the firm white sands to commune with nature and exercise my mind and body. Walking on the beach is great way to keep fit :)

JohnQPublic

7th August 2012, 01:33 PM

Janadele

7th August 2012, 01:38 PM

Not as much as Fawn and all the antis ;D

Santa

7th August 2012, 01:48 PM

chad

7th August 2012, 01:56 PM

3368:rolleyes:

BWHAHHAHAHAHAAH well done sir, well done.

Santa

7th August 2012, 02:07 PM

Not as much as Fawn and all the antis ;D

Janadele, prophets can't err. If they do they aren't really prophets, they're "false" prophets.

Why I'm bothering with this, I have no idea. :)

It reminds me of the Sabbatean Frankists. This is where I believe modern Messianic Zionism took hold.
They believe that simple truth must be seasoned with a lie for it to rise to a greater truth,
and that great lies must be seasoned with truth for them to manifest.

Frankism merged with Freemasonry in the late 1700's.

Santa

7th August 2012, 02:14 PM

Janadele, why do they call your church LDS?

Why do they leave out the Jesus Christ part?

Janadele

7th August 2012, 02:44 PM

It is a convenient shortcut Santa, do you think I should type the correct full name each time ?

Prophets from Adam to today have and are also living a mortal trial day by day as are we all. However, when speaking in their role as a Prophet revealing revelation they do not err.

madfranks

7th August 2012, 02:48 PM

Janadele - your disposition on this topic reminds me of every single LDS missionary I've ever had the opportunity to talk to. As soon as I recommend a book, a website, whatever, I'm either told outright that they're not allowed to read unauthorized literature, they're not interested in anti-Mormon propaganda, or some other excuse. Why isn't that a red flag to you, that you're not allowed to actually study and understand a viewpoint other than your own? The LDS church is controlling you, they don't want you to have access to the facts and knowledge outside of your religion because at the very top of your faith it is not Jesus Christ but the greatest deceiver of them all and he knows you'll find the truth if you honestly look for it outside of the Mormon faith. What you've showed us here is that you're not honestly looking for the truth, you are satisfied that you have the answer and are unwilling to challenge yourself to make sure! I know how hard it is to have the deepest part of your spirit challenged, and it's very difficult to leave something as ingrained as your faith, but you must heed Christ's words in Matthew 24:35 (KJV) - "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away", and Jude's words in Jude 1:3 (KJV) - "ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints". Did you catch that? This faith was delivered unto the saints only ONCE, and His words shall never pass away. You believe the Bible is mistranslated and Christ's words were lost and/or distorted in opposition to Christ's statement that his words would never pass away. Your book of Mormon and all the supplemental books stand in opposition to the faith that was already delivered. As a follower of the Christ of the Bible I really wish you would open your eyes and your heart to the truth about your faith and how it is in error and in opposition to the truth.

Blink

7th August 2012, 02:56 PM

She had the courage to come here and present her case. Janadele needs to follow through and start discussing rather than preaching. This will show whether she is a genuine truth seeker or just plugging ideology (religious or otherwise).

Thank you John, but as I previously posted I have no interest in wasting my time on anti-Mormon propaganda.

No courage. Just plain plugging of ideology. She/he/it has no intent on discussion, only indoctrination................

Santa

7th August 2012, 03:05 PM

It is a convenient shortcut Santa, do you think I should type the correct full name each time ?

I think you took a shortcut and got lost.

Janadele

7th August 2012, 03:05 PM

madfranks: I am not looking, I have already found the truth. It is yourself who should listen to your own advice and with an open and receptive spirit pray to the Lord for His answer. You have obviously not read an earlier answer of mine to a similar post directed to me.

... My time is too precious to be bothered with Anti-Mormon propaganda.

I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have always been an active Christian, having been raised an Anglican. I do not usually open my door to strangers, but when this knock came I had an overwhelming desire to do so. Two young men stood there, and I was anxious to welcome them and listen to their message. I had never before that even heard of Latter-day Saints, the LDS Church or the Book of Mormon.

On reading the Book of Mormon, and praying in the name of Jesus Christ to ask if it were true, a wave of knowledge and understanding opened to me and engulfed my being. There was and is no denying the truthfullness of the message delivered to me. Sent to me from Jesus Christ.

Janadele

7th August 2012, 03:29 PM

:)*#*

LDS Missionaries have been set apart and sent into the world by the Lord to deliver a specific message from Jesus Christ to those who will listen. They have a monumental task and schedule and are not assigned to argue or discuss opposing beliefs or opinions.

Three of my sons have served missions, one in Colorado, one in NewZealand, and one in Australia.

Janadele - your disposition on this topic reminds me of every single LDS missionary I've ever had the opportunity to talk to. As soon as I recommend a book, a website, whatever, I'm either told outright that they're not allowed to read unauthorized literature, they're not interested in anti-Mormon propaganda.

chad

7th August 2012, 04:21 PM

Janadele

7th August 2012, 04:26 PM

What is any one's motivation in posting here or anywhere else on the internet for that matter?

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 04:29 PM

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae328/SolemnSojourner/Mormontractsample.jpg

BabushkaLady

7th August 2012, 04:30 PM

madfranks, as a moderator you should respect that threads have titles and topics for a reason. The opening post here defines that anti-Mormon literature and propaganda is not appropriate to this thread.

Janadele, as a new member you should understand that threads and topics regularly get de-railed around here.

I've noticed you haven't posted anything on any other thread topic. We have a great variety, take a few minutes and check out the Good News, Reasons for Hope, Positive Insights. The Homestead and Precious Metals sections may also interest you.

When this thread dies out, please feel free to move on to the next Mission, three doors down the internet. (I'd give you their address, but they'll pretend to not be home.)

Good Luck.

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 04:40 PM

just curious, what is your motivation for posting here? is this a missionary work for you? mormonism aside, why? it seems very odd. i mean, i know what i think the answer is, but i want to hear what you say.

What is any one's motivation in posting here or anywhere else on the internet for that matter?

Truth. She wants to tell her version of the truth about her Mormon cult but not hear of any questions as to why she might be brainwashed.

A brainwashed person doesn't know or think they're brainwashed. They "KNOW" they're telling the truth.

Most unanswered questions cannot be answered because they don't /won't go there to find out if they could be deceived.

Go Pro-thread !! Whoooo Hooooooo !!

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/Shockwave_73/Mormonunderware.jpg

madfranks

7th August 2012, 05:48 PM

madfranks: I am not looking, I have already found the truth. It is yourself who should listen to your own advice and with an open and receptive spirit pray to the Lord for His answer. You have obviously not read an earlier answer of mine to a similar post directed to me.

When I first started learning about Mormonism I honestly and in good faith opened up my heart with a receptive spirit and prayed for an answer, with the two Mormon missionaries who introduced me to the faith. I asked God for an answer and I found this verse:

Acts 17:11 (KJV) - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

At this point in my life I was doing some real soul searching. I felt the Spirit move me to study this further and so I did, reading and studying things that apparently are not allowed for you to study. When I started asking questions the missionaries retreated and moved on. I would love to share with you the books I have read that I still keep in my personal library, but I don't think you'd be interested in reading them. You believe the words of your prophets more than you do the Word of God.

Perhaps you should revisit some of your own advice:

Lucifer is busier in these last days than he has ever been.

You are right about this, but you misapply it to Bible believing Christians rather than the demonstrably false prophets of your religion.

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 06:02 PM

I would love to share with you the books I have read that I still keep in my personal library, but I don't think you'd be interested in reading them. You believe the words of your prophets more than you do the Word of God.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/130934/thbf-exactly.gif
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/apatheticsong/Gateuary/exactly.gif
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc301/fullsayl/exactly.gif

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 06:20 PM

Let me feed thy tr*ll:

Like I said I am connected to a few AWESOME Mormons......look at one of the beautiful things they shared with me a long time ago
without ever trying to convertz me/ convince me of their beliefs !! (so please don't think I don't have great respect for Mormon people, cuz I surely do !!!)

Beautiful ! I love it !! It's a song, but I just like to read it often:

Have I done any good in the world today?
Have I helped anyone in need?
Have I cheered up the sad and made someone feel glad?
If not, I have failed indeed.
Has anyone’s burden been lighter today
Because I was willing to share?
Have the sick and the weary been helped on their way?
When they needed my help was I there?

Then wake up and do something more
Than dream of your mansion above.
Doing good is a pleasure, a joy beyond measure,
A blessing of duty and love.....

Serpo

7th August 2012, 06:27 PM

What is any one's motivation in posting here or anywhere else on the internet for that matter?

Well to share information and insights

Serpo

7th August 2012, 06:31 PM

she really believes people here are "reachable."--)

chad

7th August 2012, 07:07 PM

magnes is out, but I AM IN!

janadele on ldsfreedomforum:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15358&start=30

janadele in action on glen beck's the blaze:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-mitt-romneys-mormonism-becoming-less-of-an-issue-in-the-2012-race/

janadele burning it up on huffingtonpost:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/30/mitt-romney-mormon-church-religion-iowa-caucus-2012_n_1176547.html

janadele doing a la crosse wisconsin website:

http://lacrossechat.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332

teaparty.org, holla!

http://teapartyorg.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=4301673%3ABlogPost%3A402295&commentId=4301673%3AComment%3A413004&xg_source=activity

no avatar on this one, but cut-and-paste works the same in the great state of mississippi:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/Mississippi_Talk/index.php?showtopic=1161

the western center for journalism:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/members/janadele/activity/groups/

uh-oh, computer guy good at facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Janadeles?sk=wall

mitt romney agent, nothing more. no genuine interest in discussing mormonism or anything else, paid shill of mittens. if we want to keep this up, i have more.

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 07:09 PM

best post of the month !!! thank him people please ...... dying laughing (only cuz it's the TRUTH !! )

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u290/goalsetterpk/clapping.gif

Horn

7th August 2012, 07:12 PM

Looks like a case of spamming.

Janadele

7th August 2012, 07:13 PM

Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected. After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged according to our desires and actions. Each of us will accordingly receive an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2).

There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord's commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom
The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" (D&C 137:7–9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom
Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:71–80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom
Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112.

Perdition
Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32–49).

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=d1ef9daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

What about mormons who aren't good enough ... do they all go to Hell ?

I suppose non-mormons all go to hell...?

osoab

7th August 2012, 07:14 PM

Damn chad. Mittens' minion has got under your skin. I figured it would eventually peter out.

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 07:21 PM

Horn

7th August 2012, 07:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsxWnGt96Xk

chad

7th August 2012, 07:30 PM

Damn chad. Mittens' minion has got under your skin. I figured it would eventually peter out.

there's TONS more, i only linked to the ones that were obviously her with the avatar. jewish journal, twitter, abc news, trib talk in salt lake city, us news, etc. they were obviously her, but the blogging software didn't allow for avatars. if you take time to read most of them, it's a 100% mitt romney shill a thon most of the time. total cut-and-paste, exact same stuff as here. there's no possible way somebody could post 100's of times on multiple boards unless they were being paid, you'd never get anything else done. there's- i don't know- hundreds, maybe thousands of posts across so many boards i couldn't even keep track of them.

k-os

7th August 2012, 08:10 PM

chad, your post was way more awesome than some other absent guy could have produced.

Janadele, please, for the love of whatever it is you call holy, give it up! We're not buying what you have to sell.

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 08:12 PM

Janadele you need to take a look at what William Schnobelen has to say about his experiance in the Mormon church. I don't like the guy and wouldn't trust him but I think he's telling it straight about the mormon religion.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Mormons/doom.htm

part 1

Joseph Smith And The Temple Of Doom

BY BILL SCHNOEBELEN (http://www.withoneaccord.org/)

1. He became a Witch in 1968
2. Witch High Priest 1973
3. Joined Church of Satan 1975
4. Master Mason 1976
5. Gnostic Catholic Bishop 1978
6. Palladium Masonry 1979
7. Master's Degree in Theology 1980
8. Joined LDS Church 1980
9. Went to LDS Temple 1st time 1981
10. LDS Elders' Quorum President 1982
11. LDS Institute Teacher 1983
12. GOT SAVED JUNE 22, 1984

THERE IS NOTHING COVERED THAT SHALL NOT BE REVEALED!The discussion on the origins and spiritual content of the LDS temple endowment is entering a new phase.
However LDS apologists may protest to the contrary, all fair-minded people must admit that there are far too many resemblances between the Endowment and the rituals of Freemasonry to be explained as mere coincidence. (1) There is something lurking beneath the surface and we need to pull back the sheet!
Though the vast majority of Masons in the USA are probably professing Christians, it must be asserted that Freemasonry, itself, is a non-Christian religion with significant links to occultism and European Luciferianism. (2) Freemasonry is in great need of an open examination of its spiritual pedigree!
As a former Mason/Occultist, I joined the LDS Church in 1980 in the expectation that I was joining Jesus' true church. My background had led me to believe that His church would be a secret, pagan institution of great strength. It would outwardly appear very respectable and conservative, but beneath the veneer, it would actually be a reservoir of vast occult power.
My teacher, the highest ranking Witch in the USA and also a very high-level Mason, told us that the LDS church was a place prepared for witches and occultists to hide should the country's mood change to a conservative one. He told us that Mormonism had been founded by Lucifer to provide a hospitable cover where witches could hide themselves and promulgate their most cherished doctrines of spiritual evolution to godhood and a godhead which consisted of a Mother-Father pair. (3)
Thus we became Mormons, thinking we were following Jesus. Now as witches, we had been taught that Jesus was a Witch High Priest in the Melchizedek priesthood. Melchizedek, we were told, was a code-name for Lucifer, the Great Initiator. Even in public print, you will often find that the occultists speak of the concept of a Melchizedek priesthood. (4)
Our witch "Master" told us that the Mormon temple was an especially powerful place to go, as it had been designed to restore those ancient Masonic secrets that had been expurged from American Masonry. Indeed, he told us that there was an occult power to be had in the temple that could be achieved nowhere else - an indispensable step on our path to godhood. With this in mind, well proceed.
The Bible tells us that out of the mouths of two or three witnesses all things must be established. Mormons cite this scripture and believe it. Can we then go to the documents of Witchcraft, Masonry and Mormonism and establish some things? It must be borne in mind that witches and occultists are not as precise at record keeping as the LDS church. Quite the contrary! Some of their most "sacred" writings are closely guarded and unavailable to the public. Within these limitations, let us continue.
THE INITIATORY: In the LDS temple, we were clothed in a "Shield" identical to the shield used in our 2nd degree (priesthood) initiation ceremony in witchcraft, except that the LDS shield was white and the latter black. (5)

THE LDS AND SATANIC ANOINTING WERE THE SAME
We were anointed in an identical fashion to the way witches are anointed on initiation, save that the LDS temple workers are more discreet in their anointing of intimate areas. It is a very ancient custom to anoint people to protect them from demons. (6) Modern witches do this in the belief that demons will enter through any opening of the body.
Although Mormons contend, as do witches, that their anointing is a priesthood anointing, a simple study of Old Testament practices such as described in Leviticus (8:12ff), show that they are utterly different. Aaron is fully clothed here (vs. 7-9), so the anointing of all bodily orifices would have been impossible. (7)

THE GARMENT
Following the anointing of the initiates with water and oil, they are clothed in a special "Garment", which is to be worn, 24 hours a day, under their regular clothing. It is described to the initiate as "a protection from the destroyer". Significant to its obvious "spiritual powers" are special markings sewn in to the breasts, navel and knee.
Within the occult rituals of witchcraft, the practice of stitching markings on garments for protection is quite commonplace. (8) It was immediately apparent to me that not only were the markings from witchcraft and Masonry, but they were even on the right parts of the body!
In the higher levels of Masonry and Wicca, the Square, a Masonic implement, is taught to symbolize the phallic power of the Horned God or Lucifer, a masculine deity. In contrast, the Compass, another Masonic implement, is taught to be the symbol of the "Sacred Circle's secret point", the Goddess or Queen of Heaven. (9)
Now, these male/female polarities are central to witchcraft and most pagan cults. They are also a fundamental part of Qabalism (10), especially as it is expressed in the diagram known in English as "The Tree of Life" (see chart, page 4)
This is a fundamental diagram of westernmagic. It expresses the occult maxim, "As above, so below." (11) This means that the Tree represents both the Universe/God and the human anatomy.
The right side of the Tree is masculine and sacred to Lucifer - even as the square is stitched into the right breast of the LDS temple garment. Similarly, the left side of the Tree is feminine and so is the Compass stitched into the garment's left breast.
If that isn't enough, the Masonic 24 inch gauge (the symbol which seems to be over the navel on the garment) is sacred to the "Melchizedek priesthood" sphere of the tree, Tiferet, which is the central circle of the diagram and corresponds to the centre of the body. (l2)

THE SECRET NAME
The final step of the Initiatory entrance into the LDS ritual is the receiving of a Sacred Name, one that only the initiate and God will know. It is the name by which God will call forth the temple Mormon on the "Morning of the First Resurrection." In the Mormon ceremony, the husband is also told his wife's secret name so that he (not God) can raise her from the grave. She is forbidden to know his "New Name" and he forbidden to tell her.
The receiving of a secret name is also an important part of occult initiation. One principle of the magic arts is that to know a name is to have power over the one named. Thus, most Luciferian initiates will never reveal their new names to anyone. In the LDS ritual, the husband is given occult power of spiritual bondage over his wife. (13)

THE ENDOWMENT
It must be noted that much of what is said here is most obvious where the ceremony is performed live, rather than on film. The films now in use in most temples do save to dilute the occult impact of the endowment. I was "blessed" to see it for the first time, live, at the Salt Lake City temple.

The striking occult similarities I noted only
served to confirm thingsmy teachers had been telling me for years.

In the Salt Lake endowment (called this because it is the ritual in which you are endowed with the special knowledge and power needed to attain godhood), "Lucifer" walks in wearing the unofficial uniform of the Mormon priesthood, a black suit. He stands out in stark contrast to everyone else in the endowment, who are dressed in total white. From the standpoint of stagecraft, it definitely makes Lucifer the most important, outstanding performer. He also wears a blue apron, filled with Masonic markings, unlike the plain apron in the film version.

LUCIFER TEACHESTHE DOCTRINES OF BOTH
MORMONISM ANDWITCHCRAFT

Lucifer proceeds to teach doctrine of both the LDS church and Wicca. After unsuccessfully tempting "Adam", he tells "Eve" several things that are most emphatically NOT in the Genesis account - crucial things!
He teaches that she must eat of the fruit because "Father" had done so before, and that was how he had gained his knowledge. The word, "Knowledge", is significant, for it refers back directly to the dangerous heresy of Gnosticism. GNOSIS, in the Greek, means "Knowledge" and the Gnostics, like all occultists, believed that there was some secret "knowledge" available only to a select few.
This was a knowledge by which they could reach a higher plane of existence and a higher degree of salvation. Although some LDS apologists speak kindly of Gnosticism and use its teachings to authenticate LDS doctrine, it was a deadly heresy plaguing the early church and condemned by the early Fathers and even in Biblical reference. (l4)
This teaching is the LDS doctrine called, "The Law Of Eternal Progression", the Mormon teaching that, "As man is, God once was and as God is, man may become."(l5)
Lucifer is not finished teaching Gnostic/LDS doctrine. He tells Eve that eating the fruit is necessary to comprehend that everything has its opposite, good and evil, pleasure and pain, etc. This is pure Gnosticism, found in their teaching of the celebrated Aeonic opposites, the Syzygies. (16) It is also LDS theology, found in the Book of Mormon (2Nephi 2:11f~)
This concept finds its logical conclusion in cults like the Russian sect, The Khylisti, who taught that one had to sin every possible sin in order to repent and attain salvation, a philosophy also taught in strains of Gnostic Manicheanism. (17)
Of course, Lucifer's teaching that God was once a man and that our destiny is to become gods is common to virtually all forms of occult and witchcraft teaching. (18)

THE APRON
It struck me odd that there was such a staged emphasis on the apron being a symbol of Lucifer's "power and priesthoods" during the LDS Ritual. It is said not only once but twice! Immediately following that disclosure, Lucifer instructs Adam and Eve (and all the temple patrons) to put on their own aprons. LDS defenders, to the minimal extent that they have dealt with this touchy issue protest that Lucifer's apron looks different from the green fig leaf aprons that Adam, Eve and the temple patrons wear.

THE APRONIS THE SYMBOL OF LUCIFER'SPRIESTHOOD POWERIN ALL THE SATANIC CULTS

In light of the occult symbolism, they miss the larger issue. The apron is THE symbol of Luciferian priesthood power in ALL satanic cults that I am familiar with. It is also worn in a myriad of forms in virtually all Masonic rites and also in many hermetic, magickal lodges and Rosicrucian orders. (19)
Actually, the green apron worn by the LDS "patrons" is much closer to the satanic ritual original than the blue one worn by Lucifer, which is a reasonable copy of a Past Master's apron. Green is the sacred color of Lucifer! In the groups of which I was a part, the Luciferian pontiff would no more conduct a ritual without his green apron than would a Catholic priest say Mass without his stole on! (20)
Green Alchemically relates to the planet Venus, the "Morning Star." Venus, we were taught, was Lucifer's planet, being closer to the sun and therefore of a higher vibration. Copper, the metallic symbol of Venus, turns green when tarnished. (21)

THE SECRET TOKENS AND GRIPSARE IDENTICAL INMORMONISM AND MASONRY

For the Mormons to quibble about apron colors is misguided, for the shape and placement of the aprons are key. The apron is designed to cover only the intimate parts of the body, thereby causing titillation for the raising of Kundalini. (22) Of course, Lucifer's apron, the Satanic apron, the LDS temple apron and the Masonic apron are all the same shape and size, with much of the very same symbols!

TOKENS AND GRIPS
Much is made of the close resemblance between the grips, tokens, penalties and signs of the priesthood in the LDS temple and their Masonic counterparts. It is definite and unmistakable! There is even more than meets the eye. In Esoteric Masonry, we were taught that the grips had significance in terms of the eastern occult practice of acupuncture, a discipline from around 2100 BC. (23)
Both the grip of the Nail and the Patriarchal grip involve pressure points on the acupuncture meridian for sex and circulation. Pressure on any part of this meridian would follow along all the points of the meridian to the beginning meridian points, which are, in this case, the nipples. (24)
That's significant, since this is where two of the stitched marks are on the temple garment. It then extends over the nipple to the heart and then down to terminate at the navel. This is the place of the third Masonic stitching on the garment. (25) The entire meridian is classified as Yang, fiery hot, which fits perfectly with the solar/phallic character of Lucifer's power and priesthoods!
The meridian point for the Patriarchal grip is designated as one of acupuncture’s "Great Points." It is believed to have a profound impact on the psychosexual well being of a person. (26) In the craft, we were taught that this grip awakens latent sexual energies capable of bringing to pass certain alchemical changes in the reproductive system, which would lead to the grossest sort of necromancy.
This patriarchal grip is playing around with powerful occult forces. Pressure on this point (given through the veil, at the most significant point in the temple ritual) causes essential changes in one's psycho/sexual make-up.
Who can trust this ancient, pagan, methodology to do what it says it does, or could our delicate spiritual make-up be damaged by this kind of thing, even as it is by dubious practices like hypnosis?
The point in the "Sign of the Nail" is supposed to effect symptoms of convulsions, hiccoughs, and insanity. (27) In esoteric masonry, we were taught that this grip stimulates the hatred and rage necessary to work true black magic.
Lest anyone think that I am making too much of something here, let me remind anyone who has ever been through the temple frequently how carefully the temple workers are to make certain that the actual flesh of the wrist is touched by the finger in the Patriarchal grip. If there is nothing to this, why are they so concerned that it be done with extreme exactness?
To continue in the endowment, we approach the veil and are taught the "True Order of Prayer." This was done in virtually identical fashion to the way we worked Hermetic (mental) magick in our witchcraft circles, except for the fact that in Wicca, it was not a man, but the High Priestess who was in the center of a ring, and we certainly wore a LOT less clothing. The grips, however, were identical and the alternation of male/female was the same. (28)

Tumbleweed

7th August 2012, 08:14 PM

part 2

THE VEIL
The veil is a concept central to occultism. The Tree of Life, mentioned above, is also a pattern for the levels of initiatic degrees in magic. As one progresses above 1st degree, he or she becomes more and more "godlike" until finally one hits the 7th degree. To progress beyond that point, you must pass through the veil into what is called the "Supernal Triad" of the Tree, the top three spheres. Past the veil, you have the ability to become a god or goddess. Imagine that!
Similarly, in masonry, the initiate must pass through the three "chambers" of King Solomon's temple, each one corresponding to a degree. These three chambers are similar to the three triads in the Tree of Life and the three floors in the old Mormon temples and three degrees of glory. When the Mason reaches the third degree he must enter the "Holy of Holies" of King Solomon's temple, which, again, had a veil before it.
Once a Master Mason, the candidate has the opportunity to become a god. Although most Masons in England and the U.S. are unaware of this, the esoteric degrees make man's godlike potential quite plain. Any temple Mormon will instantly recognize profound similarities between the schemata of the Tree of Life, the Masonic Temple, and the three levels of glory represented in the LDS temple. The resemblance is a bit too startling to be mere coincidence.
Ancient Gnosticism rears its ugly head here; for the Gnostics taught that there were also three levels of destiny for men. They are the Hylics or material ones, the Psychics or the soulish ones (both being under bondage to the lower powers) and finally the elite Pneumatics, who had the divine spark of the Logos within them. Sounds an awful lot like the way the Mormons believe things are going to end up, doesn't it?

"THE SIGN OF THE NAIL"
This grip was identical to the highest grip that I had learned in Luciferianism; as well as the grip of the Knights of Malta degree. (29) Satan, you see, is often referred to among high level witches and Satanists by the guarded code word: "The Nail." This title comes from the fact that nails caused so much pain to the Savior. This is why the grip is so highly regarded in Luciferian circles. (30)

THIS WAS THE SAME CHANTTHAT I USED IN THESATANIC BLACK MASS!

The "FIVE POINTS OF FELLOWSHIP" are identical to those used in the Druidic rite of witchcraft, and very similar to those used in other rites such as the Gardnerian /Alexandrian rites (31). The body positions (foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back and mouth to ear) are identical to that of Freemasonry.
There is also great significance in the method of communicating the 2nd "Name" of the Melchizedek priesthood. Passing a secret name or chant from mouth to ear is ancient magickal practice-reflected in the actual Hebrew word "Qabalah." It is a transliteration of the three Hebrew letters QBL and actually means "from mouth to ear." (32)
Finally, we come to the most disturbing evidence of all. Standing at the veil as a new "Temple Mormon," I was taught the 2nd priesthood "Name", and was astounded to see how closely it paralleled the blessing given at the end of the satanic black mass! I was familiar enough with it to be able to say it along pretty well the first time. The only difference was that the Mormons had substituted the word "loins" for an obscenity used in the satanic version! (33)
After we had finished our sealing (which was, by the way, quite similar to our witch handfasting), we walked around the outside of the temple and were intrigued to find inverted pentagrams over many of the archways, as well as phases of the moon and stars. The inverted pentagram in universally regarded among occultists as the symbol of Satan and evil (34). Many witches will not even use it, believing it can bring uncontrollable evil and perversion. More advanced witches believe that casting and invoking inverted pentagrams causes wealth, power, and the kingdom of Lucifer to be manifest through them, here on earth!
The phases of the Moon on the temple refer to the Moon-Goddess, Diana, the Queen of Heaven," consort of Lucifer, and Goddess of all witches (35). Jeremiah, the prophet, condemned Israel for honoring the Queen of Heaven (Jer. 7:18)! Witches closely watch the moon phases, as black magic is done in the dark of the moon, and white magic is done when the moon is waxing. The Sunstones are well-known symbols of the biblical idol Ba'al. Why would God want such things on what is supposedly "His house"?
There is the issue that some LDS scholars have raised: that these resemblances are there because Satanists have stolen them from the temple. Just to briefly deal with that, it is obvious that both Masonry and Acupuncture are much older than Mormonism. It is a matter of historical fact that Joseph Smith had access to Masonic material as early as 1820 (363. It is also known that he did not actually teach any part of the endowment ceremony until about five weeks after being made a Master Mason (37). If anyone stole anything from anybody, Smith would seem the more likely plagiarist.
The use of oaths and initiatic secrets, kept on pain of death, goes all the way back to the days before Christ. (38) The bad reputation of the inverted pentagram goes back at least to the 1590's, considerably before Joseph Smith (39). Talismans being stitched on garments for protection is at least that old (40). The wearing of sacred undergarments goes back as far as the Babylonian period when the initiates of the temple glorifying Nimrod's deification wore such items.
The Luciferian Grimoires (ritual books) are much more difficult to pin down because they are so jealously guarded. Most sources date books like the BLACK PULLET and the GRIMORUM VERUM (the source of several pieces of information given here) back to the 18th century, but this cannot be formally verified.
Nevertheless, the vast preponderance of evidence is that literally dozens of elements in the LDS temple endowment are either directly related to or derived from occult and satanic sources.

THIS EVIDENCECRIES OUT FORSERIOUS EXPLANATION

One or two similarities could be explained as coincidence, but these many cry out for a more serious explanation. Could it be that Satan chose Joseph Smith, a "glass-looker" and folk magician to be his point man on the continent of America?
Satan was more than able to get the necessary information into his hands, either by natural or supernatural means. Let us not forget that Smith was a medium of sorts. He may have gotten his revelations through psychic communion with demon spirits, the same way many celebrated occultists, like Mdm. Blavatsky, "brought through" their systems (41). It is a very safe assumption chat he didn't get them from the Biblical God of the universe.

END NOTES1) Very briefly, the author has counted and documented some 13 UTTERLY IDENTICAL elements in the grips and signs of the endowment to Blue Lodge Masonry. Additionally, there are at least 6 elements in the rite chat are so very similar as to be beyond coincidence. For complete documentation, see "Which Came First, the Serpent or the Egg" by the author, available from the author, email him at WITHONE@netins.net
2) J. Edward Decker, THE QUESTION OF FREEMASONRY, from Saints Alive Ministries, Box 1347, Issaquah, WA 98027
3) See Margot Adler's DRAWING THE MOON, Beacon Press, Boston, 1979, p 25; and Jeffrey Russell, A HISTORY OF WITCHCRAFT, Thames & Hudson Ltd., London, 1980 pp. 4651, pp. 158-159.
4) Frater Achad's MELCHIZEDEK TRUTH PRINCIPLES, DeVors, Pub., London, 1973 far instance. Achad was the favored disciple of notorious Satanist, Aleister Crowley.
5) "THE SECOND BOOK OF WISDOM" --private document from Druidic witchcraft grimoire in possession of author.
6) John Allegro, THE SACRED MUSHROOM AND THE CROSS, Doubleday ~ Co., 1970. Although the book is astonishingly reductionist in its approach to Christianity, he does document the use of anointing and similar practices thoroughly among ancient people.
7) Gavin ~ Yvonne Frost, THE WITCH'S BIBLE, Nash Publishing, Los Angeles, 1972, pp. 80-82.
8) Paul Huson, MASTERING WITCHCRAFT, Putnam, 1970, pp.l55-157 and Gavin Frost, WITCHCRAFT, THE WAY TO SERENITY, School of Wicca, 1978, inside front cover, and the LEGEMETON, p. 95, DeLaurence Co., Chicago, 1914.
9) From Alexandrian/Gardnerian Rite BOOK OF SHADOWS, quoted in Stewart Farrar's WHAT WITCHES DO, Coward, McCann, and Geophegan, New York, 1971, p.93. It will be observed that the sacred circle's secret point is actually the womb of the high priestess representing the Goddess. This, plus the circles' cyclicity and womb-like character make it the consummate symbol of the Queen of Heaven, and the compass her chief tool.

10) Qabalah is a system of esoteric (hidden) Jewish mysticism that may have originated in a blend of Gnosticism and the Merkabah (Throne of Glory") school of Hebrew mysticism which based itself on Eze. 1. It was first written down in either Palestine or Babylon sometime between the fourth and seventh century in the SEFER YETZIRAH, or "Book of Creation".After many changes, it became thoroughly polluted with medieval occultism and Rosicrucianism, until the 17th century, when it became the groundplan for virtually all magickal societies. For a thorough treatment, see Gersham G. Scholem's MAJOR TRENDS IN JEWISH MYSTICISM, Xchocken Books, New York. For the magickal uses of qabalism and the Tree of Life, see Israel Regardie's THE TREE OF LIFE, Samuel Weiser, New York, 1983.
11) The Hermetic Maxim was allegedly found on an emerald tablet in Egypt, engraved by the mythic magi, Hermes Trismegistus. It forms the central Iynchpin of western occultism: the idea that man and God are just quantitatively different; and that a man, through his own discipline and rigorous training can become a god. For a complete transcription of the Hermetic Maxim, see ZOLAR'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ANCIENT AND FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE, Arco Pub., New York, 1970, p. 114.
12) Source text: Moses de Leon's the ZOHAR (C.12th cent. Spain.--also William Gray, THE LADDER OF LIGHTS, Samuel Weiser, 1981; Arthur E. Waite, THE HOLY KABBALAH, University Books, 1960; Israel Regardie, THE MIDDLE PILLAR, Llewellyn Publ, Minneapolis, 1985.
13) Sir James Fraser, THE NEW GOLDEN BOUGH, Dr. Theodore Gaster, ea., Criterian Books, New York, 1959, p. 187 and MAN, MYTH, AND MAGIC, vol. 14, pp 1940-41.
14) Many Bible scholars feel that John 1:1-14 is partially an antignostic polemic; in that it stresses a) that Jesus is the Eternal Logos, the Word; and b) that this Logos became flesh (GR SARX). Scholars also identify 1 Tim.6:20 and I Cor. 2:10 as possible attacks on gnostic heresy by Paul.
The "Colossian Heresy" may well have been a form of Jewish gnosticism. Among the early fathers who condemned the doctrine were Irenaeus (ADVERSUS HAERESES, let 2nd cent), Clement of Alexandria 9STROMATA, c.215), and Tertullian (AGAINST MARCION AND AGAINST VALENTINUS, c.220).
15) Joseph Smith, HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, v.6, p.305; JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, v.6, p.305; JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, v.6, p.3, 120; to say nothing of the whole Adam-God controversy; which implicitly means that Brigham Young taught that God had been in the Garden of Eden with Eve and had sinned! For further documentation on this, see "LDS Apostle Confesses Brigham Young Taught Adam-God Doctrine" compiled by Jerald & Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministries, P O Box 1884, Salt Lake City, UT 84110.
16) Kurt Rudolph, GNOSIS, T. J. Clark, Edinburg, 1983, pp. 81-82.
17) MAN, MYTH, AND MAGIC, vol.17, p.2338. and Steve Runciman's THE MEDIEVAL MANICHEE, Cambridge, UK, 1946, p.97.
18) Rudolph, p. 92-93 for a direct relationship between ancient Gnosticism and the doctrine of eternal progression.
19) Aleister Crowley, 777, privately printed by the OTO, 1907, p.l3; also DUNCAN'S RITUAL MONITOR, David McKay Co., New York, p.39. For Rosicrucians, see AMORC's member's catalog for a picture of the Rosicrucian apron in full color, AMORC, San Jose, CA.
20) From a private magickal document, owned by the author.
21) Crowley, 777, p.7,11.
22) Kundalini is the channelled force of sexual energy that yogis believe is coiled at the base of the spine in the Muladhara chakra. High level witches believe that this sexual power canbe used to work magic and alchemy. If you dare, you might read Douglas and Singer’s book, SEXUAL SECRETS, Destiny Books, New York, 1979, pp.182, 71-72, 433-46.
23) Lo Chi Kwong, ACUPUNCTURE IN CLINICAL PRACTICE, Commercial Press Ltd., Hong Kong, 1979, p.1.
24) John F. Thie, D.D. TOUCH FOR HEALTH< DeVros and Co., Marina Del Rey, CA, 1979, pp. 70-77; also THE TEXTBOOK OF ACUPUNCTURE THERAPY by Dr. Mary Austin, ASI Pub., New York, 1978, pp. 43-47.
25) Kwong, pp. 68-69.
26) Austin, p. 44.
27) Kwong, p. 66
28) Farrar, pp. 20, 26.
29) From a private document, also see RICHARDSON’S MONITOR, P. 126., The Knoght of Malta Degree.
30) A "Code Word", by its nature, is zealously guarded; even as Masonic secrets were guarded a couple of centuries ago. One who betrays these secrets is supposed to suffer terrible psychic, if not physical consequences. This is why many Satanists were stunned to find the use of the "Nail" word in its correct context in the third OMEN movie, THE FINAL CONFLICT, coming from the mouth of the actor to be playing the son of Satan. Heads must have rolled on that one!
31) Farrar, p.94: "five are the points of fellowship..." quoting from the third degree sexual initiation, the Great Rite: see also DUNCAN’S RITUAL, p.121 for the Masonic version, which is identical to the LDS Veil Version; and private document of Druidic five points offellowhip.
32) MAN, MYTH AND MAGIC, v.3, p. 282, Also Grey, CONCEPTS OF QABALAH, Weiser, 1984, p.13. The "mouth to ear" business explains why so many of these things have never been published.
33) From private documentation.
34) DR. Franz Hartmann, MAGIC, WHITE AND BLACK, pp.290-291; also see MAN, MYTH AND MAGIC, v.16, p.2159 and the cover of THE SATANIC BIBLE by Anton Szandor LaVey, Avon 1969.
35) IL VANGELLO DELLA STREGA (THE GOSPEL OF THE WITCHES) by C.G. Leland, 1899 for one of the many places referring to Diana and Lucifer being consorts.
36) Reed C. Durham, NO HELP FOR THE WIDOW’S SON, Martin Pub. Co. Nauvoo, Ill., 1980, p.25.
37) Smith, HISTORY, vol.4, p.552 and vol. 5, pp. 1-2.
38) Mircea Eliade, A HISTORY OF RELIGIOUS IDEAS,U. of Chicago Press, 1978 vol.1, p.294.
39) S.L. MacGregor Mathers, THE GREATER KEY OF SOLOMON, De Laurence and Co., Chicago, 1914 edited from British Museum Sloane MSS, 288 and Lansdown MMS., 1202 and 1203, seven codices in all. The Museum dates these documents back to the 1950’s.
40) ibid, p.95
41) Constance Cumbey, HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW, Huntington House, Shreveport, LA. 1983, p.44.

Old Herb Lady

7th August 2012, 08:15 PM

magnes is out, but I AM IN!

And Book was banned and I am in sin !! (for not being a morm)........................

when they do it it in person , it's annoying, hello & goodbye....... but online Mormon Trolling just lingers & lingers !

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/syntax_anomaly/mormons.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j249/flewis27/mormons.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr33/Mr-Osborne/ashouldchristiansmixpastelswithbeige.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/hillybilly2006/mormons.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/realmormontruth/040515cricket_meet.jpg

MORMON TRAIL
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Boise_Lib/mormons/mormon_trail.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/gahamm_photos/lolcat%20mormons/membershipcard.jpg

jimswift

7th August 2012, 09:06 PM

This thread is a hoot. Some of the post had me cracking up.

K-os has it right though, too smart round here.

k-os

7th August 2012, 09:11 PM

When I first started learning about Mormonism I honestly and in good faith opened up my heart with a receptive spirit and prayed for an answer, with the two Mormon missionaries who introduced me to the faith. I asked God for an answer and I found this verse:

Acts 17:11 (KJV) - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I didn't know how to say it in this thread, but your post gave me the courage.

When I was on The Mystery Tour, I visited SLC, and their Mormon grounds (the places I was allowed). While there, I bought the "Book of Mormon". One young, smiley greeter told me that I should read it and pray to God and ask to be told whether the message was the truth.

I prayed. I truly did, because I was in a soul-searching state of my own. All I could do was laugh and think that it was just too unbelievable. (Full disclosure: I also had some fun and took a picture of myself with my nose buried in the Book of Mormon, just to freak out my friends and family back home. I may have posted it here, but I don't remember.) But really, I prayed for the truth.

Needless to say, the Book of Mormon did not resonate with me, and neither does Janadele, for that matter.

If any of you are interested, I have a barely used Book of Mormon I can send to you, just PM me. I can send it to you General Delivery in your zip code (or another zip code for that matter).

PS - Do not PM me with your zip code (or any zip code near you) if you are paranoid or know someone who is paranoid. It will not please the GSUS gods. :p

ImaCannin

7th August 2012, 10:02 PM

ImaCannin, The Lord continues to direct His Church today through living Prophets. . I must of missed that part, can you direct me to scripture from the new or old testament that can back up that statement?

Requirements of Old Testament times are not necessarily so in these latter days, where we have progressed to the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

WRONG
Matthew 5: 17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. So basically, you are calling the Son of the Most High a liar? You are also saying that we no longer have to obey the 10 commandments, were they not also in the old testament? Or are you just picking and choosing what you want to go by from the Torah or Tanak?(old testament)

Each Sunday, which since His resurrection the Lord has instructed to be the Sabbath, is the only day set apart as a "Holy"day.
WRONG Can you show me where that is stated in scriptures? ALSO SEE ABOVE " I did not come to abolish but to fulfill" .

Jesus Christ was born on 6 April
How could he be born on April 6th when that calendar was not invented until 1582. The Old Hebrew calendar does not have names for the months, just numbers. Research the Gregorian Calendar

however we along with other Christians join in the celebration of His birth in the Christmas season.
No, you celebrate the birth of Tammuz who is the son of Nimrod. Its very important that you know what you are celebrating, not what you have been told to celebrate... How dumb is it if you think JC was born on April 6th that you would celebrate his birth in December... That just doesn't make sense. Jer 1: 14 “I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold Church services on Christmas Day, unless it falls on the Sabbath.
What does that have to so with the price of cheese? :o

If you believe like most LDS that The Book of Mormon is a witness that the Scriptures (bible) is true, then why do you not go by it?

ImaCannin

7th August 2012, 10:17 PM

Also, is the Garden of Eden in Missouri?

If it is, I dont want nothing to do with it... there are ticks and chiggers there!

Janadele

7th August 2012, 10:27 PM

The Lord knows the date of His mortal birth :)

How could he be born on April 6th when that calendar was not invented...

Janadele

7th August 2012, 10:40 PM

Internet Etiquette expects otherwise, and posters with any intelligence can read and understand the meaning of a thread title and topic.

Janadele, as a new member you should understand that threads and topics regularly get de-railed around here.

Janadele

7th August 2012, 10:52 PM

It does not concern me whether any posters on this forum are or are not being paid to post. If they are then someone is wasting their money big time. ;D

As for myself, I have never been paid to post on the internet, nor for that matter have I ever been paid, or received any financial gain, for participating with, and at times representing, the many organisations whose aims and beliefs I support.

It is revealing how critics seem to assume Christians require payment for following their Lord. Most do so voluntarily. But this is a concept that those whose "God" is money and priority financial gain, can not understand nor fathom.

Posters who accuse others whom they disagree with of being paid to post are mentally disturbed.

So much you know buster ;D are all your posts this wrong ?

there's no possible way somebody could post 100's of times on multiple boards unless they were being paid...

ImaCannin

7th August 2012, 10:59 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnwzIr8nY4E

ImaCannin

7th August 2012, 11:08 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMpguv7st7s&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Janadele

7th August 2012, 11:31 PM

Hey weirdo stalkers, shame you do not know my many other account names. :D That could really occupy your empty hours.

Mmmm and most of the interesting forums have closed, and all my archived posts gone :-(
so sorry about that.

Actually most of my internet posting has been under other names. ;D;D

i only linked to the ones that were obviously her with the avatar.

Skirnir_

7th August 2012, 11:45 PM

Internet Etiquette expects otherwise, and posters with any intelligence can read and understand the meaning of a thread title and topic.

I now declare this to be an Anti thread with a XXX rating.

http://i.qkme.me/3p3ilg.jpg

Janadele

8th August 2012, 12:43 AM

Why not start your own thread. Too retarded to know how? Or do you think no one would read it :D

Janadele

8th August 2012, 12:48 AM

Delusional to the extreme.

... too smart round here.

Serpo

8th August 2012, 04:53 AM

Delusional to the extreme.

Not delusional ,what he says is true.

Most here have become aware of their own programming some time ago and if you see your own programming then it is a piece of cake to see someone elses.

Once you become aware of the program that you may have and become aware how our minds have become fearful that we never look at our selves directly.

Look around society and most people are running a program of some sort and totally unaware of it.

You may of come here to save some of us but the TRUTH is that the one that needs help the most is perhaps yourself J.

Your program will not allow you to believe this and your mind will jump to something of reassurance that will most probably be in your Morman teachings.

I know you will take little notice of this but if you do it may mean you are waking up.

Some of your posts related to religious belief show incredible programmed beliefs.

If peole get together this programming can become very strong as it is reinforced and so we build a prison for ourselves within our own heart and mind.

Break free and become a true human.................or follow others.

Serpo

8th August 2012, 04:59 AM

Shami-Amourae

8th August 2012, 05:08 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a3eJC3qAFU

ImaCannin

8th August 2012, 05:11 AM

Too retarded to know how? :D

Now we resort to name calling?

Awh that isn't nice and it sure isn't very mormon of you !!!!

undgrd

8th August 2012, 05:32 AM

Delusional to the extreme.

Why not start your own thread. Too retarded to know how? Or do you think no one would read it :D

And the troll cracks. Must have met the quota.

Skirnir_

8th August 2012, 05:35 AM

Now we resort to name calling?

Awh that isn't nice and it sure isn't very moron of you !!!!

The queefs that she posts are unworthy of consideration.

Undgrd - I started a thread making fun of this one: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?62722-The-Cult-of-the-Flying-Jackass-Pro-thread-G-Rated the Cult of the Flying Jackass is not unlike Mormonism or geocentricism in its absurdity, just its overt absurdity. Let us post there and celebrate the cracking of the queefing troll.

BrewTech

8th August 2012, 06:29 AM

So much you know buster ;D are all your posts this wrong ?

I noticed "she" doesn't offer up any actual explanation as to how "she" can afford to post full-time for free.

BrewTech

8th August 2012, 06:46 AM

And the troll cracks. Must have met the quota.

Yes, and I will admit the troll has done an excellent job of occupying this forum with complete bullshit for quite a while...

JohnQPublic

8th August 2012, 07:18 AM

Regardless of what she contributed to the forum directly, we all learned a lot of new things about the mormon religion. We have all kinds of threads that go nowhere, but often we still learn something from them (or at east get a laugh).

Remember the old business concept: ' turn you liabilities into assets.'

chad

8th August 2012, 07:22 AM

Old Herb Lady

8th August 2012, 07:32 AM

I hope next time we get a PRO Jehovah witness thread, or a Pro scientology thread, or pro Mennonite thread, or.... Whatever...
My retarded delusional self needs more religion and philosophy lessons !

chad

8th August 2012, 07:34 AM

I hope next time we get a PRO Jehovah witness thread, or a Pro scientology thread, or pro Mennonite thread, or.... Whatever...
My retarded delusional self needs more religion and philosophy lessons.

pro scientology would rock, ohl. i have a lot of questions about that big ass compound they lock people away in. that, and those little ghost things that infect you.

Tumbleweed

8th August 2012, 07:35 AM

I'm glad Janadele started this thread. I've posted some links to resources and information that anyone thinking about joining the mormon church should be aware of and read. Thanks Janadele :)

I wondering too if maybe God led you here to learn more about Joseph Smith, the mormon church and free masonry that you arn't aware of.

TheNocturnalEgyptian

9th August 2012, 11:30 PM

I am still willing to welcome J to the forum in a general sense, but my immediate impression of this person is that they are not a serious poster. I didn't see any personal engagement or intellectual debate - just cut and paste. The things that are personally typed (not pasted...I hope) are mostly insults, belittlement, idea containment. It is obvious there is a real person behind the keyboard, but to me it does not seem like this person actually cares to live the stated tenets of their religion.

Another layer here is the massive freemasonry and occult b0rnb in this thread. Did you see it? J was dropping knowledge, stated that her family has been into york right freemasonry for generations. She knows we have studied this and s/he/it is dropping it in front of us. It's kind of interesting. I am wondering what is going on!

Janadele

10th August 2012, 12:03 AM

If you had indeed read my posts you would know I am a lady, and certainly have nothing to do with the occult.
...this person ....occult b0rnb in this thread... s/he/it ...

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 06:17 AM

If you had indeed read my posts you would know I am a lady, and certainly have nothing to do with the occult.

This is funny because mormonism is *inherently* "occult", in that it HIDES its true teachings from potential converts. Of course, the masonic-flavored symbols and handshakes and rituals are also quite "occult". Hell, you can't even get into a temple without a recommend, so that's pretty hidden/occult too.

And you said you were married to a mason... freemasonry of course having much to do with the occult, and hiding things from each other (those of lower degree) and the profane outsiders.

Myself, I am no occultist. I don't like deception. Veritas lux mea et vincit omnia veritas.

Horn

10th August 2012, 07:38 AM

This is funny because mormonism is *inherently* "occult", in that it HIDES its true teachings from potential converts.

But if the teaching are far from truth, or even believable in the slightest instance, does anyone get hurt?

Janadele

10th August 2012, 11:44 AM

This is not only insulting it is also ignorant and untrue. What right do you imagine you have to state such nonsense. If I were to be so ridiculous as to say the same about yourself or others would that mean that because I said so that it was so?

Why would you ever think you should have a right to enter an LDS Temple? What part of sacred do you not understand? From a secular viewpoint do you also think you have a right to enter anywhere, including the homes of others, Buckingham Palace, Number 10. The Vatican or the White House ?

This is funny because mormonism is *inherently* "occult", in that it HIDES its true teachings from potential converts. Of course, the masonic-flavored symbols and handshakes and rituals are also quite "occult". Hell, you can't even get into a temple without a recommend, so that's pretty hidden/occult too.

And you said you were married to a mason... freemasonry of course having much to do with the occult, and hiding things from each other (those of lower degree) and the profane outsiders.

Myself, I am no occultist. I don't like deception. Veritas lux mea et vincit omnia veritas.

freespirit

10th August 2012, 11:51 AM

looks like SirGonzo struck a nerve...lol

i need more popcorn!

chad

10th August 2012, 12:06 PM

she's not married at all, her facebook profile says she' interested in men. well, maybe she's stepping out? lol

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 12:24 PM

This is not only insulting it is also ignorant and untrue. What right do you imagine you have to state such nonsense. If I were to be so ridiculous as to say the same about yourself or others would that mean that because I said so that it was so?

It's unfortunate if you feel insulted, but it is not untrue. Some if not most mormons misrepresent their cult/religion to outsiders, especially potential converts. I know this for a fact. I have had mormons come to my house to try to get me to join their church. When I mentioned Kolob, and some basic mormon teachings, they got a little fidgety as if they would have preferred me to be entirely ignorant of mormonism. I'm not totally ignorant of mormonism. I know about Kolob and magic underwear with masonic symbols. Why didn't the missionaries tell me about all that stuff upfront? Why didn't they tell me I'd have to wear something under my clothes, use secret handshakes, and take on a new name in order to reach the fullness of the mormon "heaven"?

They were instructed by the LDS to HIDE their core beliefs... to EASE newbies into the teachings gradually and methodically, so as not to set off their BS meters and scare them away.

Why would you ever think you should have a right to enter an LDS Temple? What part of sacred do you not understand? From a secular viewpoint do you also think you have a right to enter anywhere, including the homes of others, Buckingham Palace, Number 10. The Vatican or the White House ?

Anyone is welcome at the little country baptist church in which I was raised; there is no password, required dress code, or secret handshake. No "pay lay ale".

By contrast, the LDS is quite secretive, occult, and obviously masonic-flavored.

And of course I respect private property rights! But when some mormon comes knocking on MY front door, under the pretense of discussing "Jesus Christ", why doesn't he tell me that there are other gods ruling over other planets? The Bible doesn't say that. It's blatant misrepresentation/fraud. You don't have to agree with me, although I would bet that most everyone else here agrees with me.

Janadele

10th August 2012, 12:29 PM

My past posts have responded to and answered each of these points in detail. It is obvious you ask questions but do not bother to read the answers.

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 12:31 PM

My past posts have answered each of these points in detail.

Humor me by answering them again.

I know you know how to work copy and paste. :p

undgrd

10th August 2012, 12:32 PM

sirgonzo420, you can't enter the Temple because you're unclean. Head over to your nearest LDS center and let them wash your brain. Then you'll be ready!
;)

chad

10th August 2012, 12:36 PM

this is a great mormon strategy for mittens. "i have responded to and answered each of these points in detail. It is obvious you ask questions but do not bother to read the answers." somebody should tell the campaign asap. he could spin not answering questions as part of his religious faith.

freespirit

10th August 2012, 01:04 PM

freespirit

10th August 2012, 01:14 PM

i find this thread to be very interesting (and entertaining). i have often wondered how a mormon would respond to the hard questions, now i know.

...carry on...

Janadele

10th August 2012, 01:48 PM

All genuine visitors who wish to attend services or social activities are welcome at Chapels of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints anywhere in the world.

Genealogical records and facilities are freely made available throughout the world.

Missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been set aside by The Lord to deliver a specific message from Jesus Christ to the world.

Those who are Investigating the LDS Church are taught the basics of the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then progress when these are comprehended and accepted. If this does not happen then there is no reason, nor sense, nor time allocated for further personal discussion.

However anyone can study LDS teachings and doctrine from LDS Scriptures, Manuals, Books, Literature, Audios, Videos, and Movies which are available from LDS Sites online, or from members, local Chapels, Missionaries, LDS bookshops... or in the US even from Wal Mart.

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are expected to continue to learn and progress.

Would you teach a managerial accounting class to kindergarteners? No; you'd need to teach them addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division first.

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 02:00 PM

chad

10th August 2012, 02:05 PM

adults looking to investigate a new religion aren't 5. interesting that you think of them as such, however.

Janadele

10th August 2012, 02:27 PM

There are innumerable Chapels of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the world.

There are 138 operating Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worldwide.

Temples.lds.org
Temples Website
• Find a Temple
Maps.lds.org
• Frequently Asked Questions about Temples
Temples.lds.org

Janadele

10th August 2012, 02:31 PM

I do not participate on facebook, it is only used as a "sign in" for comments on sites where it is required.

I am a widow... though that is of no concern of yours.

she's not married at all, her facebook profile says she' interested in men. well, maybe she's stepping out? lol

Horn

10th August 2012, 02:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsxWnGt96Xk

Janadele

10th August 2012, 03:04 PM

DALLIN H. OAKS
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten and Beloved Son of God. … He is our Savior from sin and death. This is the most important knowledge on earth.
“What think ye of Christ?” (Matthew 22:42). With those words Jesus confounded the Pharisees of His day. With those same words I ask my fellow Latter-day Saints and other Christians what you really believe aboutJesus Christ and what you are doing because of that belief.

Most of my scriptural quotations will come from the Bible because it is familiar to most Christians. My interpretations will of course draw on what modern scripture, notably the Book of Mormon, teaches us about the meaning of Bible scriptures so ambiguous that different Christians disagree on their meaning. I address believers but others as well. As Elder Tad R. Callister taught us this morning, some who call themselves Christians praise Jesus as a great teacher but refrain from affirming His divinity. To address them, I have used the words of Jesus Himself. We should all consider what He Himself taught about who He is and what He was sent to earth to do.

Jesus taught that He was the Only Begotten Son. Said He:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:16–17).

God the Father affirmed this. In the culmination of the sacred experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, He declared from heaven, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him” (Matthew 17:5).

Jesus also taught that His appearance was the same as His Father’s. To His Apostles, He said:

“If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

“Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:7–9).

Later the Apostle Paul described the Son as being “the express image of [God the Father’s] person” (Hebrews 1:3; see also 2 Corinthians 4:4).

The Apostle John wrote that Jesus, whom he called “the Word,” “was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:2–3). Thus, under the plan of the Father, Jesus Christ was the Creator of all things.

During His ministry to His people in Palestine, Jesus taught that He was Jehovah, the Lord God of Israel (see John 8:58). Later, as the risen Lord, He ministered to His people on the American continent. There He declared:

“Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. …

“… I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth” (3 Nephi 11:10, 14).

The Bible records Jesus’s teaching: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10). Later, in the New World, He declared, “I am the light and the life of the world” (3 Nephi 11:11). He is the life of the world because He is our Creator and because, through His Resurrection, we are all assured that we will live again. And the life He gives us is not merely mortal life. He taught, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” (John 10:28; see also John 17:2).

Jesus also taught, “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness” (John 8:12). He also declared, “I am the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). He is the way and He is the light because His teachings light our path in mortal life and show us the way back to the Father.

Always, Jesus honored the Father and followed Him. Even as a youth He declared to His earthly parents, “Wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?” (Luke 2:49). “For I came down from heaven,” He later taught, “not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me” (John 6:38; see also John 5:19). And the Savior taught, “No man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6; see also Matthew 11:27).

We return to the Father by doing His will. Jesus taught, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). He explained:

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” (Matthew 7:22–23).

Who then will enter the kingdom of heaven? Not those who merely do wonderful works using the name of the Lord, Jesus taught, but only “he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

Jesus showed us how to do this. Again and again He invited us to follow Him: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).

He gave priesthood power to His Apostles (see Matthew 10:1) and to others. To Peter, the senior Apostle, He said, “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:19; see also Matthew 18:18).

Luke records that “the Lord appointed … seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come” (Luke 10:1). Later these Seventy joyfully told Jesus, “Even the devils are subject unto us through thy name” (Luke 10:17). I am a witness of that priesthood power.

At the close of His earthly ministry, Jesus taught His Apostles, “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you” (John 14:26), and “he will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13).

He also guides us by His commandments. Thus He commanded the Nephites that they should have no more disputes concerning points of doctrine, for, He said:

“He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

“Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away” (3 Nephi 11:29–30).

He also challenges us to focus on Him, not on the things of the world. In His great sermon on the bread of life, Jesus explained the contrast between mortal and eternal nourishment. “Labour not for the meat which perisheth,” He said, “but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you” (John 6:27). The Savior taught that He was the Bread of Life, the source of eternal nourishment. Speaking of the mortal nourishment the world offered, including the manna Jehovah had sent to feed the children of Israel in the wilderness, Jesus taught that those who relied on this bread were now dead (see John 6:49). In contrast, the nourishment He offered was “the living bread which came down from heaven,” and, Jesus taught, “if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever” (John 6:51).

Some of His disciples said this was “an hard saying,” and from that time many of His followers “went back, and walked no more with him” (John 6:60, 66). Apparently they did not accept His earlier teaching that they should “seek … first the kingdom of God” (Matthew 6:33). Even today some who profess Christianity are more attracted to the things of the world—the things that sustain life on earth but give no nourishment toward eternal life. For some, His “hard saying” is still a reason not to follow Christ.

The culmination of our Savior’s mortal ministry was His Resurrection and His Atonement for the sins of the world. John the Baptist prophesied this when he said, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). Later Jesus taught that “the Son of man came … to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:28). At the Last Supper, Jesus explained, according to the account in Matthew, that the wine He had blessed was “my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28).

Appearing to the Nephites, the risen Lord invited them to come forward to feel the wound in His side and the prints of the nails in His hands and His feet. He did this, He explained, “that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world” (3 Nephi 11:14). And, the account continues, the multitude fell “down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him” (verse 17). For this, the whole world will ultimately worship Him.

Jesus taught further precious truths about His Atonement. The Book of Mormon, which elaborates the Savior’s teachings and gives the best explanation of His mission, reports this teaching:

“My Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross … , that I might draw all men unto me, …

“… that they may be judged according to their works.

“And … whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world. …

“And no unclean thing can enter into [the Father’s] kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end” (3 Nephi 27:14–16, 19).

And so we understand that the Atonement of Jesus Christ gives us the opportunity to overcome the spiritual death that results from sin and, through making and keeping sacred covenants, to have the blessings of eternal life.

Jesus issued the challenge “What think ye of Christ?” (Matthew 22:42). The Apostle Paul challenged the Corinthians to “examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). All of us should answer these challenges for ourselves. Where is our ultimate loyalty? Are we like the Christians in Elder Neal A. Maxwell’s memorable description who have moved their residence to Zion but still try to keep a second residence in Babylon?

There is no middle ground. We are followers of Jesus Christ. Our citizenship is in His Church and His gospel, and we should not use a visa to visit Babylon or act like one of its citizens. We should honor His name, keep His commandments, and “seek not the things of this world but seek … first to build up the kingdom of God, and to establish his righteousness” (Matthew 6:33, footnote a; from Joseph Smith Translation,Matthew 6:38).

Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten and Beloved Son of God. He is our Creator. He is the Light of the World. He is our Savior from sin and death. This is the most important knowledge on earth, and you can know this for yourself, as I know it for myself. The Holy Ghost, who testifies of the Father and the Son and leads us into truth, has revealed these truths to me, and He will reveal them to you. The way is desire and obedience. As to desire, Jesus taught, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” (Matthew 7:7). As to obedience, He taught, “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself” (John 7:17). I testify of the truth of these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/teachings-of-jesus?lang=eng&query=jesus+said+my+sheep+hear+my+voice

Old Herb Lady

10th August 2012, 03:49 PM

http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2012-07-12/feature_mormon29__01__630x420.jpg

THE MORMON CORPORATION

The Mormon church is becoming more prominent and more powerful in our society. Mormons are occupying influential positions in our state and national governments far out of proportion to their population in the United States. The church has become a mega-wealthy financial enterprise, with billions of dollars worth of money-making businesses and property all over the country - a fact of which most non-Mormons are unaware -with wide-ranging (and usually unseen) influence on many aspects of American life. Its income has been reliably estimated to be millions of dollars per day, not only from its thousands of businesses but also from its faithful members, who are required to donate a minimum of ten percent of their entire income to the church.
The Mormon church boasts of its rapid growth. This growth, in addition to its stance in favor of large families, is because it maintains a large voluntary corps of full-time missionaries who are a well-trained and thoroughly indoctrinated sales force whose sole purpose is to bring more people into the church. Their goal is not to convert, but to enroll, not to enrich lives, but to baptize, not to save sinners' souls, but to enlarge membership rolls. This missionary force is not directed by caring clergymen,but by successful businessmen, because the Mormon missionary effort is a business, and a very successful business, when judged by business standards.

Why I left the Mormon Church-
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_packham/why.html

Janadele

10th August 2012, 04:29 PM

TheNocturnalEgyptian: may I return the "compliment":p

Janadele

10th August 2012, 04:43 PM

osoab

10th August 2012, 04:54 PM

chad

10th August 2012, 04:54 PM

Even toddlers can distinguish between the study and the toilet. Posters who persist in posting to this PRO LDS (study) thread their off topic literature and material from Anti-Mormon (toilet) sites and sources, should exercise their internet know how and start their own anti thread.

as i said earlier, this is not the des moines register, fox news, glens beck, etc. comments board where moderators "take care of you."

"internet know how" doesn't exist here; the pursuit of truth does. you don't seem to be very well versed in it.

Horn

10th August 2012, 07:44 PM

Janadele

10th August 2012, 08:24 PM

Why should any thread be derailed by ignorant bullies. Is this mafia territory?

Your thread can be derailed just as easily as the next one. What makes you so special?

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 08:38 PM

Why should any thread be derailed by ignorant bullies. Is this mafia territory?

This is a gold forum.

Gold and is very dense and quite heavy.

How do you reckon ol' Saint Joe carried those ~200 lb plates?

I am open-minded. If I were CONVINCED that mormonism is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, I would happily join. So if you answer all my questions, you just might convert me...

Janadele

10th August 2012, 08:50 PM

Mitt Romney will announce his vice presidential running mate Saturday morning in Norfolk, Va., as he kicks off a swing state bus tour at the USS Wisconsin, his campaign announced late Friday night.

The campaign did not say who he had selected, but Romney plans to make the announcement at 8:45 a.m. when he tours the USS Wisconsin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/

Janadele

10th August 2012, 09:32 PM

All things are possible with the Lord.

http://www.lds.org/new-era/2007/07/what-did-the-golden-plates-look-like?lang=eng
Neither Joseph nor any of the witnesses said that the ancient record was made from solid gold. Nor did they use the term “gold plates” or “plates of gold.” All Joseph said is that they had “the appearance of gold.”

sirgonzo, I have answered all the questions you have asked on the teachings and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is a gold forum.

Gold and is very dense and quite heavy.

How do you reckon ol' Saint Joe carried those ~200 lb plates?

I am open-minded. If I were CONVINCED that mormonism is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, I would happily join. So if you answer all my questions, you just might convert me...

zap

10th August 2012, 09:42 PM

Why didn't you just come on- line and be honest, instead of trying to preach/convince us of the fabulous/Mormon religion of Romney?

Why didn't you just say it out loud, I want you all to vote for Romney and his VP to be Paul Ryan. No instead you wasted our time with 9 pages of this crap instead.

sirgonzo420

10th August 2012, 09:53 PM

Janadele

10th August 2012, 09:55 PM

Mitt Romney / Paul Ryan :D a winning ticket.
Conservatives and Tea Party support him. Excellent pick. This is exactly the type of person MItt would hire for his campaign or at Bain. He is not only smart, competent and articulate, but also has "the vision thing" as GWB would say.

Paul Ryan understands the economy and is very knowledgeable on the relationship between debt, taxes, and the budget in relation to ObamaCare.

The Ryans reside in Janesville with their three children, Liza, Charlie and Sam. The family are parishioners at St. John Vianney Catholic Church.

Skirnir_

10th August 2012, 09:59 PM

If I took a dump on a piece of paper, would mormons recognise it as "revealed scripture" after translation via seer stones?

JohnQPublic

10th August 2012, 11:36 PM

If I took a dump on a piece of paper, would mormons recognise it as "revealed scripture" after translation via seer stones?

This is coming close to an attack. Please keep it respectful.

Skirnir_

11th August 2012, 12:14 AM

This is coming close to an attack. Please keep it respectful.

Indeed; papists have always been the paragons of being respectful, like during the Teutonic Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, harassment of Italian astronomers, etc., so when they speak of respect, all others ought to take note.

Tumbleweed

11th August 2012, 04:21 AM

Janadele mormons are dishonest and mislead real christians when they claim to be christian themselves. The Jesus of the mormons is not the same Jesus of christians.

Ed Decker explains it pretty well at this link. http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/does-the-lds-church-have-a-different-jesus

Here's a quote from Bruce McConkies book and commentary from former mormon Ed Decker that you'll find there.

LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie taught that Christians have "a mythical Christ" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269). That means we must decide which faith has the real Christ because somebody clearly has a mythical Christ. Do these faiths have the same Jesus? No, if you read the LDS Ensign. It says Christian Churches worship a different Jesus (May 1977, p.26).

Janadele

11th August 2012, 04:30 AM

The scriptures specify three personages in the Godhead;
(1) God the Eternal Father,
(2) His Son Jesus Christ, and (3) the Holy Ghost.

These constitute the Holy Trinity, comprising three physically separate and distinct
individuals, who together constitute the presiding council of the heavens.

Creedal Christians have a different an incorrect concept of the Godhead to the LDS reality of three distinct personages, one in purpose.

Ed Decker is a fool with no understanding of the true doctrines and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

freespirit

11th August 2012, 04:49 AM

Creedal Christians have a different an incorrect concept of the Godhead to the LDS reality of three distinct personages, one in purpose.

Ed Decker is a fool with no understanding of the true doctrines and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

but you do, right? (have full understanding)
lol

Janadele

11th August 2012, 05:05 AM

Tumbleweed:
I have great respect and personal regard for Elder Bruce R McConkie, my family and I are personal friends of his family and have dined at his son's home.

Elder McConkie has made it clear that he was not speaking ex officio, he did not become an Apostle until 1972, fourteen years after the first edition of his book Mormon Doctrine was published.

Janadele

11th August 2012, 06:07 AM

The President of the Church, not any one Apostle, determines official LDS theology. Newly formed official LDS doctrine is put forth by the President of the Church in an official statement countersigned either by his counselors or all members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, or both. No one man posits new doctrine alone.

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church.

With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the Prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (theHoly Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.

Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine aboutJesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

Because different times present different challenges, modern-day prophets receive revelation relevant to the circumstances of their day. This follows the biblical pattern (Amos 3:7), in which God communicated messages and warnings to His people through prophets in order to secure their well-being. Based on the scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/approaching-mormon-doctrine

madfranks

11th August 2012, 09:25 AM

Paul Ryan understands the economy and is very knowledgeable on the relationship between debt, taxes, and the budget in relation to ObamaCare.

The Ryans reside in Janesville with their three children, Liza, Charlie and Sam. The family are parishioners at St. John Vianney Catholic Church.

Let me try to enlighten you a little bit on Paul Ryan. He does not understand the economy and is not knowledgeable on the relationship between debt, taxes, and the budget. Regarding his proposed budget, he claimed that his faith guided his thought process when he prepared it. http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance291.htmlSo let me ask you this:

What kind of faith proposes a "fiscally conservative" budget that is only within 5 percent of the almost $4 trillion that liberal Democrats want to spend?

What kind of faith proposes an unbalanced budget with a deficit of $833 billion for fiscal year 2013?

What kind of faith proposes to take billions from taxpayers’ and give it to foreign governments in the name of foreign aid?

What kind of faith proposes to fund Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP when the Constitution nowhere authorizes the federal government to have anything to do with health care?

What kind of faith proposes to fund the thieves and sexual predators in TSA uniforms?

What kind of faith proposes to fund the Department of Education, an unconstitutional, unnecessary, and harmful department that Republicans have talked for years about shutting down?

What kind of faith proposes to fund bloated military budgets and senseless foreign wars and occupations?

Not the faith of anyone who is committed to the Constitution, less government, less spending, less regulation, deficit reduction, limited government, liberty, the free market, fiscal conservatism – and other things Republicans say they believe in.

JohnQPublic

11th August 2012, 11:14 AM

The scriptures specify three personages in the Godhead;
(1) God the Eternal Father,
(2) His Son Jesus Christ, and (3) the Holy Ghost.

These constitute the Holy Trinity, comprising three physically separate and distinct
individuals, who together constitute the presiding council of the heavens.

...

Ok. So you say the LDS is trinitarian. Is this trinity specifically for earth? Do other planets have a different enitity in Jesus' place within that planet's trinity?

Janadele

11th August 2012, 01:19 PM

Janadele

11th August 2012, 01:19 PM

undgrd

11th August 2012, 01:38 PM

Janadele, you are something else. Like an indoctrinated pull string Barbie Doll.

Korbin Dallas

11th August 2012, 02:38 PM

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/KorbenDallas1/mitt.jpg

madfranks

11th August 2012, 02:51 PM

http://ldsliving.com/story/69783-evangelical-pastor-of-27-years-recounts-journey-to-joining-lds-church

http://tomscottitstrue.blogspot.com.au/

Former evangelical pastor Tom Scott, and his wife Maggie a former practicing Catholic joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Tom has written a book called "It's True: An Evangelical Pastor's Journey to Truth in the Mormon Church,"

I watched this video testimony of those two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrt3KEiboIc

And all I got out of it was ten minutes of them talking about their feelings, their hearts, what they felt was right, etc. And I know a big thing for Mormons is that they ask potential converts to pray and seek out what your heart tells you. But Jeremiah the prophet warned us about trusting our own hearts:

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Facts and reason were never mentioned in this whole thing, only their feelings. Personally I don't trust my heart, because I do believe than man has a sinful nature and I wouldn't put my trust in that nature.

Janadele

11th August 2012, 03:17 PM

The Lord has said “My sheep know my voice” ....
Mosiah 6:10–13.
John 10:1–15.
John 21:15–17.
Isaiah 40:10–11.
Jesus has given us His word. We are warned against the doctrines of men. Only the ‘pasture’ that the Lord provides is proper food for His sheep, and no man can be saved in ignorance of His word or without His revelations. The true sheep know His voice. The true Shepherd knows and owns His sheep and He calls them. We take upon us the name of Christ, we are His sheep; and, if we have His name, we can enter ‘by the door."
http://www.lds.org/manual/the-life-and-teachings-of-jesus-and-his-apostles/section-4-the-third-year-of-jesus-public-ministry/chapter-15-i-am-the-light-of-the-world?lang=eng&query=%22my+sheep+know+%22

Gaillo

11th August 2012, 03:26 PM

...We are warned against the doctrines of men...

Unless those men are named Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Spencer W. Kimball, Etc. ? ???

Horn

11th August 2012, 03:35 PM

Neither Joseph nor any of the witnesses said that the ancient record was made from solid gold. Nor did they use the term “gold plates” or “plates of gold.” All Joseph said is that they had “the appearance of gold.”

Seriously?

Does anyone at this site have time for a savior toting faux gold, have you no shame?

Old Herb Lady

11th August 2012, 06:51 PM

This man has taken his alotted mortal trial period and has obviously decided to use it for the dark side:
How can anyone listen to him talk and believe that he is some great person ? That is just mind-blowing to me.
Avoid being part of the dark if you truly want to live in His Light. I am going to start praying for you to get out of this darkened/misled/ brainwashed mindset that you have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lFUUDrh9wNg

zap

11th August 2012, 07:40 PM

LOL, this thread is still going,

Doesn't Janadele understand that our politicians are all bought and paid for !

I don't care what church they claim to use, they are all still pawns in the game, they are controlled by TPTB, sold out to the highest bidder, they don't give a flying Shit about you or me..... or you Janadele, they have their own agenda, and it ain't converting people to Mormonism.

Janadele

11th August 2012, 11:33 PM

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3.5,9?lang=eng
The Book of Abraham
Chapter 3
Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim—The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits—He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the Creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

1 And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after His manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest.

10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which His hands had made;

12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and His hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put His hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which His hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

13 And He said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And He said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And He said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And He said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.

15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.

16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in His heart to do but what He will do it.

18 Howbeit that He made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

20 The Lord thy God sent His angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will aprove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second cestate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

DMac

12th August 2012, 12:46 AM

snake, viper....

Horn

12th August 2012, 10:08 AM

I think I've found Kolob, the real estate & star God are pushing new frontiers.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZXbrDK5bRY4/TQ-h3JUNMpI/AAAAAAAAAuk/-BouzIfsyuU/S1600-R/palestine_maps%2B809%2Bx%2B438.JPG

Janadele

12th August 2012, 10:21 AM

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isa. 5:20-21)

snake, viper....

Silver Rocket Bitches!

12th August 2012, 10:57 AM

I'm traveling to Singapore this month and I was surprised to find they are tolerant of all religions EXCEPT the latter day saints.

You can't even have a pamphlet. Go figure.

Janadele

12th August 2012, 11:10 AM

Silver R: This is the Singapore LDS website
http://www.lds.org.sg/

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is well established and thriving in Singapore.

Silver Rocket Bitches!

12th August 2012, 12:41 PM

Oh, my mistake. It's the jehovah's witnesses that are banned.

Is there a difference? :rolleyes:

Janadele

12th August 2012, 02:05 PM

Of course, there are many differences.

PatColo

13th August 2012, 07:49 AM

just listening now, Mormon discussion begins @ 5:30, an overview of the parallels between LDS, Judaism & Masonry. I understand Giuliani was formerly in some flavor of Christian seminary, and dropped out or was kicked out when he asked the wrong questions.

Monday, August 13, 2012

Truth Hertz with Charles Giuliani 2012.08.13 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2012/08/truth-hertz-with-charles-giuliani_13.html)

http://www.oraclebroadcasting.com/images/charles.jpg (http://www.oraclebroadcasting.com/archives.php?who=Truth_Hertz)
Charles talks about Mormons and then discusses the Wisconsin shooting. He ends the show with the Clinton scandal which will be continued tomorrow.

64k Listen (http://www.talkshoe.com/resources/talkshoe/images/swf/lastEpisodePlayer.swf?fileUrl=http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/q9m508gucq/truth_hertz_with_charles_giuliani_2012.08.13.mp3)

Download (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/q9m508gucq/truth_hertz_with_charles_giuliani_2012.08.13.mp3)

JohnQPublic

13th August 2012, 12:59 PM

Janadele

13th August 2012, 01:55 PM

Hi John :) this is a question you have asked and I have answered previously.

JohnQPublic

13th August 2012, 02:01 PM

Hi John :) this is a question you have asked and I have answered previously.

Do male members of the Mormon Church who pass all requirements become a spiritual lord and populator (along with their spouse) of their own planet?

Janadele

13th August 2012, 02:09 PM

This earth is our allotted space for our mortal trial period. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is our hope for salvation and progression in the eternities. That is our concern. Line upon line, precept upon precept. The wonders of the Universe have but dimly been revealed to us.

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith, he did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines. LDS theology believes in a God with a physical body so it is not surprising that one might speak of God's location in physical space. Thus, "Kolob" is introduced in a rather peripheral way in an effort to teach about the supremacy of God and that there is a hierarchy in all things.

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“The Lord made known to him the following facts: That Kolob is the first creation, and is nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. It is the first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. This measurement is according to celestial time. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which by the Egyptians was called Jah-oh-eh.

Oliblish, so called by the Egyptians, stands next to Kolob in the grand governing creation near the celestial, or place where God resides.

This great star is also a governing star and is equal to Kolob in its revolutions and in its measuring of time. Other grand governing stars were also revealed to Abraham”

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3.5,9?lang=eng
The Book of Abraham
Chapter 3
Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim—The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits—He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the Creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

1 And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after His manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest.

10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which His hands had made;

12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and His hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put His hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which His hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

13 And He said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And He said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And He said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And He said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.

15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.

16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in His heart to do but what He will do it.

18 Howbeit that He made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

20 The Lord thy God sent His angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will aprove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second cestate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Janadele

13th August 2012, 02:53 PM

There is no actual doctrine that I am aware of, the concept is not taught nor discussed in services, in classes, or in manuals. From my own studies I have my own opinions, and I recall some vague mention in Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, which is a book well worth any follower of Jesus Christ reading. When I have more time I may be able to find the references on which my own personal opinions were formulated.
Do male members of the Mormon Church who pass all requirements become a spiritual lord and populator (along with their spouse) of their own planet?

Sparky

13th August 2012, 06:46 PM

Janadele, you are something else. Like an indoctrinated pull string Barbie Doll.

But she sure has perseverance.

Janadele

13th August 2012, 11:47 PM

There are a number of free downloads of Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, and also available sites to read the book online.

This is one
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22542

Janadele

14th August 2012, 01:38 AM

John: Here is the answer to your questions:

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?
Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ's teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4).

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C13

Horn

14th August 2012, 07:39 AM

What kind of blatant deception is this?

Do Latter-day Saints practice polygamy?

No. There are more than 14 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and not one of them is a polygamist. The practice of polygamy is strictly prohibited (http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/clarifying-polygamy-confusion)in the Church. The general standard of marriage in the Church has always been monogamy, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (see Jacob 2:27 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/2)). For periods in the Bible polygamy was practiced by the patriarchs Abraham and Jacob, as well as kings David and Solomon. It was practiced by a minority of Latter-day Saints in the early years of the Church. Polygamy was officially discontinued in 1890 — 122 years ago. Those who practice polygamy today have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C13

PatColo

14th August 2012, 07:41 AM

Terrific article OHL posted in the mormons love israel thread (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?62669-Why-do-Mormons-Love-Israel&p=565580&viewfull=1#post565580):

Does Mitt Romney Think He’s a Jew? (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/does-mitt-romney-think-hes-a-jew/)

Posted on August 1, 2012 (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/does-mitt-romney-think-hes-a-jew/)
http://awaypoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/mormon-jew.jpg?w=300&h=199 (http://awaypoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/mormon-jew.jpg)

While in Jerusalem Mitt Romney made an appearance at the Wailing Wall in a Yarmulka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kippah). Was he just trying to pay tribute to Orthodox tradition or does he think he’s a Jew? Perhaps both.

Conservative Christianity teaches “supersessionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism),” the idea that God’s covenant with Christians replaced his covenant with the Jews and now Christians are the Chosen People, the spiritual heirs of Abraham. Traditionally, Mormonism takes this a step further – teaching that Mormons are not only the spiritual heirs of Abraham, they are his physical descendants as well.

Mormonism includes a ritual called the “Patriarchal Blessing (http://lds.about.com/od/faq/f/faq_patriarchal.htm)” in which a member in good standing receives a set of pronouncements spoken by an older male who is thought, during the ritual itself, to act as a latter day prophet.

Like many of Mormonism’s better known distinctive features, such as plural marriage (http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/) and wearing sacred undergarments (http://www.alternet.org/story/156161/are_mormon_underwear_magic_between_the_sheets), the practice was instituted by Joseph Smith himself.* One of the most central functions of the Patriarchal Blessing is to reveal which great-grandson of Abraham a person can claim as his ancestor. Per Mormonwiki

Through these blessings, Latter-day Saints are told their lineage from the tribes of Israel. All tribes have been represented, but Latter-day Saints descend mostly from the sons of Joseph—Ephraim and Manasseh.

One former Mormon describes (http://mormonmyth.blogspot.com/2010/09/patriarchal-blessings-house-of-israel.html) the experience: “While reading my patriarchal blessing I took note that it says I was: ‘born through the loins of Ephraim.’ I found it fascinating how patriarchs could tell which tribes people were descended from.” Just as Hindus disagree over the historicity of the Ramayana and orthodox Christians disagree over the literal truth of the Bible, Mormons are of various minds about whether their bloodline is metaphorical or literal.

http://awaypoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/mormon-jew-blessing.jpg?w=640&h=255 (http://awaypoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/mormon-jew-blessing.jpg)

This peculiar-seeming teaching offers a fascinating window into the way that sacred stories emerge and evolve. It also offers a window into one way that religious sects compete and seek status.

In the Bible story, the Hebrew people are divided into twelve tribes based on the twelve sons of Jacob, one of whom is Joseph of the “Technicolor Dreamcoat.” The story of Jacob’s twelve sons and the twelve tribes of Israel bring together two passions of the Bible writers, both of which played a central role in the development of Mormonism: genealogy and numerology.

The concept of Chosen People creates a fixation on blood lines, and the Bible writers often go to great lengths to establish the lineage of powerful men. In fact, two of the New Testament writers, each with a different audience in mind, offered contradictory genealogies of Jesus which theologians have struggled for centuries to reconcile. The Mormon religion continued and expanded the obsession with bloodlines to the point that vaults in Granite Mountain (http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/family_history/granite_mountain_eom.htm), Utah, now house almost two million rolls of microfilm with genealogical records. Mormonism teaches that family is forever, which is why a man controls his wife’s standing in heaven and members can be baptized on behalf of deceased antecedents, and it is important to know who your ancestors were.

The number twelve traces its own lineage of significance clear back to the signs of the zodiac and manifests repeatedly in the Bible. Joseph Smith himself was influenced by Freemasonry, which provided the sacred symbols that appear on Mormon undergarments. It also reinforced (http://masonicdictionary.com/numbers.html) a fascination with numerology and biblical numerology in particular.

Thus there were twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in the year, twelve Tribes of Israel, twelve stones in the pectoral, and twelve oxen supporting the molten sea in the Temple. There were twelve apostles in the new law, and the New Jerusalem has twelve gates, twelve foundations, is twelve thousand furlongs square, and the number of the sealed is twelve times twelve thousand.

The numbers three and seven also had early magical significance that shaped the beliefs of Bible writers (http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/7.html) and early Christians. Think seven days of creation, three days before the resurrection, the holy trinity, or the command to forgive your neighbor “seventy times seven.” Like the number twelve three and seven are built into (http://books.google.com/books?id=cnoeMcEQPzsC&pg=PA291&lpg=PA291&dq=mormonism+%2B+magic+number&source=bl&ots=ZoJJ4JT_2f&sig=s-SoU3UPjijS9MX8-KLok_M5no8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_RkYULLsL8rV6wHFyIHIBg&ved=0CHEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=mormonism%20%20%20magic%20number&f=false) the structure of the Mormon bureaucracy:

The triangle is one of the most potent forms in magic, and the 1835 revelation provided numbering of priesthood offices which added to 180 (the number of degrees in a triangle). The revelation specified that in ascending order the deacon’s president presided over twelve deacons, the teacher’s president over twenty four teachers, and the elder’s president over ninety eight elders. . . . There were three men in the first presidency, twelve men in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, seventy men in the seventy . . .

Like Christianity, though, the number twelve remains chief among the numbers assigned special powers and significance.

We humans are storytellers to the heart, and at the heart of every story is a protagonist, whether an individual or collective, who matters more than the rest. Because of this, two ideas – bloodlines with special rights and numbers with special powers have maintained their appeal for millennia. They can be found all around us –in Harry Potter, for example, or New Age spirituality, or faded tabloids about the British monarchy. Ironically, we frequently fuse our ancient superstitions with modern scholarship methods and technologies. Hence the lack of a 13th floor in many modern hospitals. Hence, too, the microfilm archive in Granite Mountain.

Our quest to bend nature’s rules or society’s rules, to stack the odds in our favor, means that we are constantly vying for a little more status. For that reason, it would come as no surprise to a scholar of sacred stories that a preponderance of Mormons are said to descend from the lineage of Joseph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasseh_%28tribal_patriarch%29). The twelve sons of Jacob and their offspring may comprise the Chosen People according to the biblical chronicle, but not all of the twelve are equally favored by either God or their earthly father. In fact, tales of the Hebrew patriarchs are often stories about paternal favoritism and its consequences, both positive and negative.

Within the broader narrative of Chosen People are stories of chosen sons and mothers who compete viciously to ensure their sons receive extra standing or privilege. Father Abraham and Yehovah both favor Isaac over Ishmael, Abraham’s son born of the slave woman, Hagar. Isaac and Yehovah favor his son Jacob over his son Esau. Jacob and Yehovah favor the sons of his wife Rachel over those of her ugly older sister Leah. They favor Joseph most of all, which is why his brothers throw him into a pit and sell him to an Egyptian slave trader where he becomes a confidant of the Pharaoh, ultimately ruling over them all. Among those in the know, announcing that someone is the heir of Joseph is indeed a patriarchal blessing—a pronouncement that he has the most favored bloodline out of the favored twelve.

The belief that ancestry matters to God has drawn the LDS Church into several kinds of awkward dogmas. Officially sanctioned racism was prominent in theology and church practice for a century and a half after Smith founded the religion. According to the story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamanite), a tribe of Israelites traveled to the Americas around 600BC, but split into two warring factions. The evil faction, the Lamanites, eventually killed off their righteous brethren and were punished with brown skins, becoming the forebears of Native Americans. Offspring of Adam’s son Cain (who murdered his brother) were cursed (http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/homepage.html) with even darker skin, became the forebears of Africans. Anyone with African blood was banned from the full privileges of Mormon membership until 1978 and Utah refused to celebrate MLK Day until 2000. Recent DNA research (http://mormonscripturestudies.com/bomor/twm/lamgen.asp) showing Native Americans to have Asian ancestry has caused consternation and even defections among science-minded Mormons.

Mormon Church leaders like Mitt Romney appear to have moved beyond the divinely sanctified racism of church history – at least when it comes to matters of skin color. But the issue of privileged bloodlines remains. In the Mormon version of the end times, the descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob will be gathered together into the land promised so long ago by Yehovah to a wandering band of Semites. The tribe of Judah will return to the land surrounding Jerusalem, but the tribe of Joseph (divided between Ephraim and Manasseh) as part of “ten lost tribes” will be gathered together in Zion, also called the New Jerusalem, centered in Jackson County, Missouri. According to the Tenth Article (http://www.mormonwiki.com/Articles_of_Faith) of the Mormon Faith, this is not a spiritual metaphor:

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisaical glory.

Does Mitt Romney think he is a son of Abraham and that Zion will be his inheritance? It is hard to imagine otherwise. He worships a god that cares who your father was, and his father, and his father before him and who, in part, allocates blessings accordingly. Indeed, Mormon doctrine may offer a little insight into why Romney appears so untroubled by an America where fortunes increasingly are dictated by heredity.

————————–
* Note: The LDS Church, the dominant denomination of the Mormon religion, does not condone polygamy or plural marriage where it is forbidden by law. However, it is assumed that some men will have multiple wives in heaven. In the U.S., the practice is retained only by fundamentalist sects that are independent of the LDS denomination.

reader comments @ link: http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/does-mitt-romney-think-hes-a-jew

PatColo

14th August 2012, 07:45 AM

same author ^ a month earlier:

Are Mormon Underwear Magic Between the Sheets? (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/)

Posted on July 6, 2012 (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/)
http://awaypoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/mormon-underwear-two-piece.jpg?w=150 (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/)

To outsiders there is little more fascinating about the Mormon religion than the underwear that Mormon temple initiates are expected to wear day and night. As one former believer put it (http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon013.htm), “I’ve been an exmo since 1967. All that time, the underwear questions were the first ones I got from people who found out I had been Mormon. A friend brought it up again last week at lunch.” Another former Mormon agrees: “When people first find out I’m exmo, their first question/comment almost ALWAYS is, ‘So what is the deal with the magic underwear?!’ Honest! People outside the morg are spending WAY too much time thinking about garmies!” (DC (http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon013.htm)) … Continue reading → (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/)

note the site pointed to above, http://www.exmormon.org < "Mormon Haterz", obviously :D

Horn

14th August 2012, 07:51 AM

Indeed, Mormon doctrine may offer a little insight into why Romney appears so untroubled by an America where fortunes increasingly are dictated by heredity.

A Royal jew Prince, obviously.

Janadele

14th August 2012, 09:21 AM

Janadele

14th August 2012, 09:23 AM

No, Mitt does not think he is a Jew. He is a gentleman who has respect for others and their beliefs.

freespirit

14th August 2012, 09:36 AM

No, Mitt does not think he is a Jew. He is a gentleman who has respect for others and their beliefs.

**cough** bullshit **cough**

sirgonzo420

14th August 2012, 09:39 AM

No, Mitt does not think he is a Jew. He is a gentleman who has respect for others and their beliefs.

And one day he will have a planet of his own, right?

Do women get planets too? Or do just the righteous men?

k-os

14th August 2012, 10:51 AM

PatColo

14th August 2012, 10:52 AM

Insults and jokes regarding sacred matters of an established religion of approx 15 million members are problematic rude harassment and religious discrimination. They also show the poster has no integrity nor moral fibre.

Wordy dance around the "Mormon hater" slogan :)

Reminded me of one of the reader comments in the Are Mormon Underwear Magic Between the Sheets? (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/) blog,

Milt says: July 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/#comment-1071)
So the NEXT article you will write is an article deriding and making up silly and inaccurate adjectives for the Jewish male wardrobe staple — the Yarmulia or Kippah?!?? Here’s a clue folks, this Mormon underwear is JUST LIKE the Jewish skull cap or a catholic priest’s robe…. so ….Why is this ‘fair game’ to disrespect something that is religiously significant to the Mormon people, but not for any other religion? I know there are some people with find joy in spitting on Catholic statues and giggling at a devout Jew dressed distinctly, but I was expecting better from Americans. I would like an answer from Ms.Tarico herself please. .. or is it: “Yes, it was all just for my amusement this summer… ha ha ” ?

to which author replies,

Valerie Tarico (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com) says: July 9, 2012 at 5:03 pm (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/#comment-1072)
Oh, never expect better from Americans, especially me. :) In all seriousness, I write mostly about evangelicalism, the religion I know best, and one that i believe drives all manner of harm in our world. I have written recently about the Catholic Bishops, specifically because they are willing to sacrifice compassion for children and respect for women on the altar of their arrogant certitude.

One pattern in our world is that when religions encourage tolerance and respect for outsiders, they tend to be given slack, even when it can be easily verified that teachings are false. When religious leaders or adherents engage in intrusive proselytizing; justification of war; efforts to control the personal, sexual, or spiritual lives of outsiders; attempts to rewrite history, organized lobbying to turn dogma into public policy . . . . that’s another story. The Mormon church is engaged in a massive PR campaign that focuses on some aspects of the religion (like the fact that people with brown skin are now allowed to become temple initiates) but not others (like the fact that they are required to wear the Garment). Why? Because one is respect worthy and one isn’t. It has also chosen to weigh in against civil rights in this country. In other words, the Church itself has chosen to make itself part of the public spectacle.

Milt fires back,

Milt says: July 10, 2012 at 1:33 pm (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/#comment-1079)
Thanks for the response. You have made some valid points. You are very passionate about same sex unions, I surmise… fine. My take away is that you think that since the Mormon church has become active in promoting the defeat of same sex marriage laws, they deserve this. I understand your feelings. Now if we were to apply this criteria across the baord then those who are adamantly opposed to the civil rights of a woman to choose an abortion say then the Catholic church is now fair game to be written up. Every devote Catholic that posts a virgin Mary image on their car window.. they are foolish magic bumper sticker morons? Every rosary sold is a magic trinket to be giggled at. Or that every Catholic nun is a magic garment wearing numbskull…. Or that Jews who don’t see the civil rights of Palestinians the same as you, their kippah caps are really dunce caps? Or the Muslims who don’t see the civil rights of women the same as you, they are to be documented online as foolish or evil, imbecilic drones with magic beards and head coverings? So, these are all fair game in blogs and alternet articles… let’s see if any articles show up, or will it continue to be the Mormons who are singled out.

dialog ends with,

Valerie Tarico (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com) says: July 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/#comment-1080)
Images ridiculing orthodox jewish garb the popemobile, the virgin mary, etc. abound on nontheist blogs, cartoons and such. Your assertion that Mormons are singled out because of this one article is somewhat puzzling.

http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/9af8fa17604df5e5971f4b183bcf1d4b?s=40&d=identicon&r=G mikespeir says:
July 11, 2012 at 6:38 am (http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/are-mormon-underwear-magic-between-the-sheets/#comment-1091)
Is there some reason Mormons should be exempt from having their superstitions exposed?

Janadele

14th August 2012, 10:57 AM

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C13

DMac

14th August 2012, 10:57 AM

insults and jokes regarding sacred matters of an established religion of approx 15 million members are problematic rude harassment and religious discrimination. They also show the poster has no integrity nor moral fibre.

behead the infidels!!!!!

;)

PatColo

14th August 2012, 11:02 AM

Insults and jokes regarding sacred matters of an established religion of approx 15 million members are problematic rude harassment and religious discrimination. They also show the poster has no integrity nor moral fibre.

Watch out friends, this may be why she's here.

yeah it's another conspicuous parallel between LDS & organized joooowry, trying to SHAME people over their bogus "HATER" meme (anti-Shlomoite, anti-Mormom) SHAME SHAME SHAME! :(

sirgonzo420

14th August 2012, 11:07 AM

Janadele

15th August 2012, 06:20 PM

sirgonzo, First learn to understand, follow, and OBEY the Gospel of Jesus Christ as pertains to this earthly probation. The eternal lives of others who have reached exaltation in our universe and beyond is not your concern.

Christ said "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (see Matthew 5:48). That is our immediate task here on our Earth.

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him," taught Paul (1 Corinthians 2:9)

That we can become heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17) is a concept little understood by the Christian world, yet alone by those who have chosen the ways of Lucifer.

Horn

15th August 2012, 08:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLXZV456Or0

Janadele

16th August 2012, 01:10 AM

Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage
From Chapter Five:
Adam, the patriarch of the race, rejoiced in the assurance of the Savior's appointed ministry, through the acceptance of which, he, the transgressor, might gain redemption. Brief mention of the plan of salvation, the author of which is Jesus Christ, appears in the promise given of God following the fall -- that though the devil, represented by the serpent in Eden, should have power to bruise the heel of Adam's posterity, through the seed of the woman should come the power to bruise the adversary's head. It is significant that this assurance of eventual victory over sin and its inevitable effect, death, both of which were introduced to earth through Satan the arch-enemy of mankind, was to be realized through the offspring of woman; the promise was not made specifically to the man, nor to the pair. The only instance of offspring from woman dissociated from mortal fatherhood is the birth of Jesus the Christ, who was the earthly Son of a mortal mother, begotten by an immortal Father. He is the Only Begotten of the Eternal Father in the flesh, and was born of woman.

From Chapter Seven, Jesus The Christ:
Jesus Christ was to be born of mortal woman, but was not directly the offspring of mortal man, except so far as His mother was the daughter of both man and woman. In our Lord alone has been fulfilled the word of God spoken in relation to the fall of Adam, that the seed of the woman should have power to overcome Satan by bruising the serpent's head.

Gibson’s movie begins in the garden of Gethsemane, with the disciples sleeping as Jesus prays for guidance and stomps on a snake that tempts him to avoid his destiny.

Now where in the world did Mel get that stuff from?

freespirit

16th August 2012, 05:35 AM

after twelve pages of this crap, i must admit, i am losing interest...
this reminds me of why i stopped going to church a long time ago. the religious, bible thumping type just dont seem to know when to stop. also, at the end of the day, religions are organized, implemented and maintained by man. man is fallible. if i want to talk to God, i'll do it myself, not thru some intermediary. if you ask God for guidance and answers with an open heart and mind, he will answer. All this BS about getting your own planet, magical underwear, et al is absolutely ridiculous to me.

no one likes a bible thumper, especially one that doesn't know when to quit.

janadele, you may refuse to accept this truth, but you have been led down the garden path and sold a bill of goods that will be absolutely useless to you come judgement day. i pray you reconsider the fate you are securing for your very soul.

Janadele

16th August 2012, 05:47 AM

It is not I who is posting of "getting your own planet" or "magical underwear" in fact my responding posts have been to the contrary ;) so it is the anti-Mormon literature that you are reading to which you refer, and which I certainly agree is ridiculous. ;)

freespirit

16th August 2012, 05:54 AM

no one likes a bible thumper, especially one that doesn't know when to quit.

... in case you missed it in the last post...;D

ImaCannin

16th August 2012, 07:30 AM

Ignoramus......

Janadele

16th August 2012, 05:49 PM

I will diverge from the topic of this thread briefly to answer your political question.

Bain negotiated the Stericyle investment deal in November 1999, nine months after Mitt Romney left.
CNN's John King, and four sources who communicated with CNN -- all of whom have firsthand knowledge of Bain's operations at the time in question, confirm there is nothing other than the SEC filings to suggest a hands-on Romney role at Bain post-February 1999. Three of the four are Democrats, and two of the four are active Obama supporters in Campaign 2012.

Only one, Bain Managing Director Steve Pagliuca, would talk on the record. The others spoke only on condition of anonymity, citing either Bain's low-key culture or the desire not to anger friends in the Obama campaign. Pagliuca, a Democrat who unsuccessfully ran for Senate in 2010, told CNN: "Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure." In explaining the SEC documents filed in 2000 and 2001, Pagliuca said, "Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period."

Another Bain Democrat who did not want to be identified by name said Romney had no role after taking the Olympics post "Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. He was just gone. And it happened very suddenly. ... After that, he was not on calls or writing memos. He was gone."

Two highly reputable arbiters of political debate -- The Washington Post's fact-checking arm and FactCheck.org -- also stand by their earlier findings that Romney stepped away from any active role at Bain when he accepted the Olympics post. And Fortune reported that it obtained private Bain documents that support the Romney account. Bain negotiated the Stericyle investment deal in November 1999, nine months after Mitt Romney left.

The Obama machine and progressive lie-launchers continue to perpetuate their deceit which demeans the office he holds.

Horn

16th August 2012, 06:28 PM

Bain, Romney Invested in Company That Disposed of Aborted Fetuses

keyword

freespirit

16th August 2012, 06:50 PM

maybe if we consult the US ministry of truth we'll get some real answers.../sarc...

zap

16th August 2012, 07:30 PM

[QUOTE=freespirit;566158]after twelve pages of this crap, i must admit, i am losing interest...
this reminds me of why i stopped going to church a long time ago. the religious, bible thumping type just dont seem to know when to stop.

janadele, you may refuse to accept this truth, but you have been led down the garden path and sold a bill of goods that will be absolutely useless to you come judgement day. i pray you reconsider the fate you are securing for your very soul.

How very sad that people like Janadele are so weak minded that they can be brainwashed into believing anything anybody says. I'll pray for you Janadele.

Janadele

16th August 2012, 09:09 PM

Personal attacks are off topic to this thread.

freespirit

17th August 2012, 04:23 AM

Personal attacks are off topic to this thread.

that wasnt a personal attack. it was a statement of fact!

Janadele

17th August 2012, 05:45 AM

http://www.lds.org/pages/mormon-messages?lang=eng
:cool:
http://www.ldsliving.com/story/69833-pass-it-on-a-message-from-pres-monson

Janadele

23rd August 2012, 06:18 AM

A true follower of Jesus Christ will follow His directive and support Israel in gathering all the dispersed of Judah home.

In 1845, following the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a proclamation to all the world. After bearing witness of the restoration of the Gospel, the proclamation read:

"And we further testify that the Jews among all nations are hereby commanded, in the name of the Messiah, to prepare to return to Jerusalem in Palestine, and to rebuild that city and temple unto the Lord.

"And also to organize and establish their own political government under their own rulers, judges, and governors, in that country.

"Be it known unto them that we now hold the keys of the Priesthood and kingdom which are soon to be restored unto them. Therefore, let them also repent, and prepare to obey the ordinances of God."

This Apostolic proclamation warned the rulers of nations that they must not "stand as idle and disinterested spectators" but help expedite the work of the Lord in the latter days and thereby reap a great blessing. They were told that they would "either be led by the good spirit to cast in your lot, and to take a lively interest with the Saints of the Most High, and the covenant people of the Lord; or on the other hand, you will become their inveterate enemy, and oppose them of every means in your power."

The proclamation then continued:

"To such an extreme will this great division finally extend, that the nations of the Old World will combine to oppose these things by military force. They will send a great army to Palestine against the Jews, and they will besiege their city, and will reduce the inhabitants of Jerusalem to the greatest extreme of distress and misery.

"Then will commence a struggle in which the fate of nations and empires will be suspended on a single battle.

"In this battle the governors and people of Judah will distinguish themselves for their bravery and warlike achievements. The weak among them will be like David and the strong among them will be like God or like the angel of the Lord.

"In that day the Lord will pour upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and supplication and they shall look upon the Messiah whom they have pierced.

"For lo! he will descend from heaven as the defender of the Jews, and to complete their victory. His feet will stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which shall cleave asunder at his presence, and remove one half to the north, and the other to the south, thus forming a great valley where the mountain now stands.

"The earth will quake around him, while storm and tempest, hail and plague, are mingled with the clash of arms, the roar of artillery, the shouts of victory, and the groans of the wounded and dying.

"In that day, all who are in the siege, both against Judea and against Jerusalem, shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth should be gathered together against it.

"This signal victory on the part of the Jews so unlooked for by the nations, and attended with the personal advent of the Messiah and the accompanying events, will change the whole order of things in Europe and Asia, in regard to political and religious organization and government.

"The Jews as a nation become holy from that day forward, and their city and sanctuary become holy. There also the Messiah establishes his throne and seat of government.

"Jerusalem then becomes the seat of empire and the great center and capital of the world."

While all of this is transpiring, the Lord will have directed the building of the New Jerusalem in America. There Ephraim and Manasseh of the Tribe of Joseph will have their inheritance. The world will then be prepared for the Millennial reign with the house of Judah and house of Joseph combining their efforts to spread the Gospel and the government of the Lord to the four corners of the earth. Truly, in that day, "Ephraim shall not envy Judah and Judah shall not vex Ephraim."

Janadele

23rd August 2012, 06:20 AM

:)*#*

Hyde an Apostle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote a letter of introduction to Rabbi Herschel of the Hebrew Community of London, England, which explains a special call given to him by the Prophet Joseph Smith with respect to the gathering of Israel. A portion of the letter states: “About nine years ago, a young man with whom I had a short acquaintance, and one, too, in whom dwelt much wisdom and knowledge, in whose bosom the Almighty had deposited many secrets, laid his hand upon my head and pronounced these remarkable words—

‘In due time thou shalt go to Jerusalem, the land of thy fathers, and be a watchman unto the house of Israel; and by thy hands shall the Most High do a great work, which shall prepare the way and greatly facilitate the gathering together of that people".

This is probably one of the first recorded statements in this dispensation relative to a special mission of dedication for the eventual gathering of Israel. The blessing was most likely administered upon Orson’s head by the Prophet Joseph in Kirtland, Ohio, in 1831 when Orson was confirmed a member of the Church and ordained an elder.

At the April 1840 general conference of the Church, Orson Hyde was called on a mission to the Holy Land, with Elder John E. Page as his companion. They were to meet with Jewish leaders and dedicate Palestine for the return of the Jews. Their letter of credentials as missionaries to Palestine was written in Nauvoo on April 6, 1840. To the world the very idea was imprudent—a tiny band of religionists on the western frontier of the United States announcing to the world that the time had come for the gathering of the Jews.

While preaching at a public meeting in Philadelphia, Orson mentioned that he was going on a mission to Jerusalem to dedicate the Holy Land for the return of the Jews. He also mentioned that Mormon missionaries travel without purse or scrip, and that he was looking for financial assistance for his mission. At the end of his sermon, a stranger gave him a purse of gold and asked but one favour in return—that when Orson delivered his dedicatory prayer in the Holy Land, he would mention the anonymous donor in that prayer. Over a year later, as Orson knelt on Jerusalem’s Mount of Olives, he prayed:

“Do Thou also look with favour upon all those through whose liberality I have been enabled to come to this land. Particularly do Thou bless the stranger in Philadelphia, whom I never saw, but who sent me gold, with a request that I should pray for him in Jerusalem. Now, O Lord, let blessings come upon him from an unexpected quarter, and let his basket be filled, and his storehouse abound with plenty.”

Later John F. Beck, the son of the anonymous donor, revealed that his late father had been the generous stranger, and that the whole Beck family had indeed been blessed. He said: “We settled in Spanish Fork [Utah] where we continued to live until father died at the age of ninety-three, having enjoyed good health until within three days of his death. I do not know of an apostate among any of father’s posterity. He always had plenty for his family and loaned breadstuffs to scores who were in want. He did not become rich, but always had money laid aside for a time of need.”

At Philadelphia, Elder John E. Page lost the spirit of the mission and Orson continued on to Jerusalem alone. During his travels Orson met many notable personalities, some of whom were amazed at and interested in his mission. He enjoyed his travels through Europe and while waiting for his visa in Munich, learned to write and speak German.

Tired and weary after several months’ travel of nearly 10,000 miles, Orson’s enthusiasm was revitalised as he finally arrived at the sacred city of Jerusalem. Here he carefully walked along a dark, narrow street, avoiding the heavily loaded camels that traveled toward him. In the early morning hour he passed through the ancient gate in the old decayed wall near the brook, Kidron. As Orson crossed over the small brook and climbed up the gentle slope of the hill, bright rays of sunshine encompassed the Mount of Olives. It was a magnificent sight as he gazed upon the surrounding countryside from the top of the mount.

There, alone, on Sunday, October 24, 1841, Orson wrote and offered the prayer dedicating Palestine for the return of the Jews and for the building of a Temple in the future. For the first time in 1,800 years, an Apostle stood again on the Mount of Olives. After his prayer Orson Hyde built two stone altars patterned after those of ancient Israel for memorials. The first memorial was on the Mount of Olives and the second on Mt. Moriah.

In 1960 Elder George Q. Morris spoke of “God’s promise that he would gather Jews to Jerusalem, and I think perhaps we may well now not continue saying the Jews are going to gather in Jerusalem. I think now we may well say they have gathered. … The Jews have returned to Palestine.”

Orson Hyde believed that the mission to Palestine was part of his divine destiny. This mission illustrated his great faith in Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God and his belief in the Jews’ eventual return to Palestine preceding the coming of the Messiah as it has been prophesied by both ancient and modern Prophets. There was no question in Orson’s mind that he had helped to prepare the way for the gathering of the members of the tribe of Judah and the final restoration of their homeland. He had traveled 20,000 miles to fulfill a mission call for his beloved Church, which was probably one of the longest and most hazardous missions undertaken in this dispensation.

Janadele

23rd August 2012, 06:22 AM

The following prayer of dedication for the return of the Jews, was delivered on 24 October, 1841 on the Mount of Olives Jerusalem by Apostle Orson Hyde in fulfilment of the assignment given to him by Jesus Christ:

"O Thou! who art from everlasting to everlasting, eternally and unchangeably the same, even the God who rules in the heavens above, and controls the destinies of men on the earth, wilt Thou not condescend, through thine infinite goodness and royal favour, to listen to the prayer of Thy servant which he this day offers up unto Thee in the name of Thy holy child Jesus, upon this land, where the Son of Righteousness set in blood, and thine Anointed One expired.

"Be pleased, O Lord, to forgive all the follies, weaknesses, vanities, and sins of Thy servant, and strengthen him to resist all future temptations. Give him prudence and discernment that he may avoid the evil, and a heart to choose the good; give him fortitude to bear up under trying and adverse circumstances, and grace to endure all things for Thy name's sake, until the end shall come, when all the Saints shall rest in peace.

"Now, O Lord! Thy servant has been obedient to the heavenly vision which Thou gavest him in his native land; and under the shadow of Thine outstretched arm, he has safely arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets -- for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honour of Thy name.
Everlasting thanks be ascribed unto Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast preserved Thy servant from the dangers of the seas, and from the plague and pestilence which have caused the land to mourn. The violence of man has also been restrained, and Thy providential care by night and by day has been exercised over Thine unworthy servant. (shadows of Rev 11)
Accept, therefore, O Lord, the tribute of a grateful heart for all past favours, and be pleased to continue Thy kindness and mercy towards a needy worm of the dust.

"O Thou, Who didst covenant with Abraham, Thy friend, and who didst renew that covenant with Isaac, and confirm the same with Jacob with an oath, that Thou wouldst not only give them this land for an everlasting inheritance, but that Thou wouldst also remember their seed forever. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have long since closed their eyes in death, and made the grave their mansion. Their children are scattered and dispersed abroad among the nations of the Gentiles like sheep that have no shepherd, and are still looking forward for the fulfilment of those promises which Thou didst make concerning them; and even this land, which once poured forth nature's richest bounty, and flowed, as it were, with milk and honey, has, to a certain extent, been smitten with barrenness and sterility since it drank from murderous hands the blood of Him who never sinned.

"Grant, therefore, O Lord, in the name of Thy well-beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to remove the barrenness and sterility of this land, and let springs of living water break forth to water its thirsty soil. Let the vine and olive produce in their strength, and the fig-tree bloom and flourish. Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its rightful heirs; let it again flow with plenty to feed the returning prodigals who come home with a spirit of grace and supplication; upon it let the clouds distil virtue and richness, and let the fields smile with plenty. Let the flocks and the herds greatly increase and multiply upon the mountains and the hills; and let Thy great kindness conquer and subdue the unbelief of Thy people. Do Thou take from them their stony heart, and give them a heart of flesh; and may the Sun of Thy favour dispel the cold mists of darkness which have beclouded their atmosphere. Incline them to gather in upon this land according to Thy word. Let them come like clouds and like doves to their windows. Let the large ships of the nations bring them from the distant isles; and let kings become their nursing fathers, and queens with motherly fondness wipe the tear of sorrow from their eye.

"Thou, O Lord, did once move upon the heart of Cyrus to show favour unto Jerusalem and her children. Do Thou now also be pleased to inspire the hearts of kings and the powers of the earth to look with a friendly eye towards this place, and with a desire to see Thy righteous purposes executed in relation thereto. Let them know that it is Thy good pleasure to restore the kingdom unto Israel -- raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.

"Let that nation or that people who shall take an active part in behalf of Abraham's children, and in the raising up of Jerusalem, find favour in Thy sight. Let not their enemies prevail against them, neither let pestilence or famine overcome them, but let the glory of Israel overshadow them, and the power of the Highest protect them; while that nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee in this glorious work must perish, according to Thy word --- Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. "

Though Thy servant is now far from his home, and from the land bedewed with his earliest tear, yet he remembers, O Lord, his friend: who are there, and family, whom for Thy sake he has left. Though poverty and privation be our earthly lot, yet ah! do Thou richly endow us with an inheritance where moth and rust do not corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.

"The hands that have fed, clothed, or shown favour unto the family of Thy servant in his absence, or that shall hereafter do so, let them not lose their reward, but let a special blessing rest upon them, and in Thy kingdom let them have an inheritance when Thou shalt come to be glorified in this society.

"Do Thou also look with favour upon all those through whose liberality I have been enabled to come to this land; and in the day when Thou shalt reward all people according to their works, let these also not be passed by or forgotten, but in time let them be in readiness to enjoy the glory of those mansions which Jesus has gone to prepare. Particularly do Thou bless the stranger in Philadelphia, whom I never saw, but who sent me gold, with a request that I should pray for him in Jerusalem. Now, O Lord, let blessings come upon him from an unexpected quarter, and let his basket be filled, and his storehouse abound with plenty, and let not the good things of the earth be his only portion, but let him be found among those to whom it shall be said, `Thou hast been faithful over a few things, and I will make thee ruler over many.'

"O my Father in heaven! I now ask Thee in the name of Jesus to remember Zion, with all her Stakes, and with all her assemblies. She has been grievously afflicted and smitten; she has mourned; she has wept; her enemies have triumphed, and have said, `Ah, where is thy God?' Her Priests and Prophets have groaned in chains and fetters within the gloomy walls of prisons, while many were slain, and now sleep in the arms of death. How long, O Lord, shall iniquity triumph, and sin go unpunished?

"Do Thou arise in the majesty of Thy strength, and make bare Thine arm in behalf of Thy people. Redress their wrongs, and turn their sorrow into joy. Pour the spirit of light and knowledge, grace and wisdom, into the hearts of her Prophets, and clothe her Priests with salvation. Let light and knowledge march forth through the empire of darkness, and may the honest in heart flow to their standard, and join in the march to go forth to meet the Bridegroom.

"Let a peculiar blessing rest upon the Presidency of Thy Church, for at them are the arrows of the enemy directed. Be Thou to them a sun and a shield, their strong tower and hiding place; and in the time of distress or danger be Thou near to deliver. Also the quorum of the Twelve, do Thou be pleased to stand by them for Thou knowest the obstacles which they have to encounter, the temptations to which they are exposed, and the privations which they must suffer. Give us, [the Twelve] therefore, strength according to our day, and help us to bear a faithful testimony of Jesus and His Gospel, to finish with fidelity and honour the work which Thou hast given us to do, and then give us a place in Thy glorious kingdom. And let this blessing rest upon every faithful officer and member in Thy Church. And all the glory and honour will we ascribe unto God and the Lamb forever and ever. Amen."

freespirit

25th August 2012, 05:37 AM

Smell that? (sniff, sniff)
What is that? (sniff)
Ohhh...I know what that smell is.
Anyone else smell it?

Janadele

25th August 2012, 08:36 AM

Matthew Chapter 16 :

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that Thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Horn

25th August 2012, 10:26 AM

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/images/BrighamYoungMasonicFDC1.jpg

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/american_heros_fdcs.htm

Skirnir_

25th August 2012, 11:02 AM

Janaspammer must be a close relation of the Duracell bunny.

BrewTech

25th August 2012, 12:34 PM

Janaspammer must be a close relation of the Duracell bunny.

Would you guys PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL??

Skirnir_

25th August 2012, 12:39 PM

Would you guys PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL??

The troll is here for our amusement, for us to laugh at and denigrate. Let us do so and enjoy ourselves.

singular_me

25th August 2012, 02:15 PM

almost 50 pages!!! I cant seem to recall any thread that long in this sub forum, not even one of mine... LOL

sure there is "The Thread About Absolutely Nothing", which has 140+p but it is not just about religion like this one.

StreetsOfGold

25th August 2012, 02:27 PM

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/images/BrighamYoungMasonicFDC1.jpg

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/american_heros_fdcs.htm

After Prophet Joseph Smith's murder at Navaroo, Illinois, Young led the Mormon Migration to the Great Salt Lake where he established Salt Lake City and started the magnificent Mormon Temple. Believed to have been made a Mason in Navaroo he wore a Masonic stick pin on his shirt front the remainder of his lifetime. (purposely erradicated from all official portraits long after his death.)

Now why would they erradicat this from all his protraits? I wonder oh I wonder why?

1 Timothy 5:7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of ONE (cough, cough) wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Janadele

25th August 2012, 05:53 PM

1 June 1801–29 Aug. 1877. Carpenter, painter, glazier, colonizer. Born at Whitingham, Windham Co., Vermont. Son of John Young and Abigail (Nabby) Howe. Brought up in Methodist household; later joined Methodist church. Moved to Sherburne, Chenango Co., New York, 1804. Married first Miriam Angeline Works of Aurelius, Cayuga Co., New York, 8 Oct. 1824. Lived at Mendon, Monroe Co., New York, when baptized into LDS church by Eleazer Miller, 9/15 Apr. 1832. Wife died, 8 Sept. 1832. Served missions to New York and Upper Canada, 1832–1833. Migrated to Kirtland, Geauga Co., Ohio, 1833. Labored on Kirtland temple. Married second Mary Ann Angell, 31 Mar. 1834, in Geauga Co. Participated in Camp of Israel expedition to Missouri, 1834. Ordained member of Quorum of the Twelve by Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris, 14 Feb. 1835, at Kirtland. Served mission to New York and New England, 1835–1837. Fled Kirtland, 22 Dec. 1837. Joined JS en route to Far West, Caldwell Co., Missouri; arrived, 14 Mar. 1838. Member of presidency pro tempore of church in Far West, 1838. Directed Mormon evacuation from Missouri. Forced to leave Far West; reached Quincy, Adams Co., Illinois, Feb. 1839. Served mission to England, 1839–1841, departing from Commerce (later Nauvoo), Hancock Co., Illinois. Member of Nauvoo City Council, 1841–1845. Member of Nauvoo Masonic Lodge. Participated in plural marriage during JS’s lifetime. Officiator in proxy baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo, 1843. Served mission to campaign for JS as candidate for U.S. president, 1844. With the Twelve, sustained to administer affairs of church after JS’s death, 8 Aug. 1844, at Nauvoo. Directed Mormon migration from Nauvoo to Salt Lake Valley, 1846–1848. Appointed president of church, Dec. 1847. Governor of Utah Territory, 1850–1857. Superintendent of Indian affairs for Utah Territory, 1851–1857. Directed establishment of hundreds of communities in western U.S. Died at Salt Lake City.
http://josephsmithpapers.org/person/brigham-young

Janadele

25th August 2012, 06:10 PM

Latter-day Saints do not take their doctrine from ancient Christian writers, but from canonized scriptures and the living Prophets. However, the perspectives of early Christians demonstrates the plural marriage was not the absolutely forbidden idea that some modern sectarians might wish it to be.
Latter-day Saints agree that the 'standard' instruction to all believers is monogamy—exceptions can only be commanded by God through His Prophet (see Jacob 2:30).

Tumbleweed

25th August 2012, 09:39 PM

Janadele you need to wake up. Joseph Smith was unfaithful to his wife, a liar and a cheater. He wanted to screw all the women he came in contact with whether they were married or not and especially the young pretty ones. He was a sick pervert that was involved in the occult.

Here is an article by a fellow that has looked into his sexual perversion and quotes from the book "wife nineteen".

http://clindquist-rudeawakening.blogspot.com/2011/11/was-mormon-founder-joseph-smith-sex.html

Did Mormon Founder Joseph Smith Suffer From Sexual Addiction?

During my 33 years of ministry as a Methodist pastor, I personally encountered a number of clergy who seriously violated the solemn moral covenant that we all agree to with regard to sexual behavior with our parishioners.

One was a sexual abuser of young girls, who was eventually forced out of the ministry. Another pastor propositioned me as we shared a dorm room at a clergy conference. Another simply had multiple affairs with different women in the church and was eventually confronted and pushed out of the pastorate. Another confessed to me that he was being treated for 'sexual addiction', having been caught cruising for prostitutes. And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dj7adgNUu_4/TrGYHTY4v8I/AAAAAAAABUQ/Hee_abg92Vo/s320/anna%2Beliza%2Byoung.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dj7adgNUu_4/TrGYHTY4v8I/AAAAAAAABUQ/Hee_abg92Vo/s1600/anna%2Beliza%2Byoung.jpg)

Anna Eliza Webb Young, 19th Wife of Brigham Young

The male sex drive is so powerful that there will always be 'shepherds of the flock' who lead their sheep astray and violate them sexually. That's always been true in Christianity, both Protestant and Roman Catholic. In the case of Catholicism, the recent scandals regarding the sexual abuse of young boys is truly horrifying and is causing a crisis in the American church. In the case of modern 'televangelism', the cases of celebrity preachers gone bad are almost too numerous to name. The women and families damaged by these transgressions are countless. Is there any doubt that pastors must be held strictly accountable and seriously disciplined if they cross that sacred line?

Which brings me to Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church. As my readers will know, I've been posting quite a bit on Mormonism (http://clindquist-rudeawakening.blogspot.com/search/label/mormonism) recently. I first became interested in the subject several years ago when I did a series of classes in my church on what I called 'peculiar American religions'. And then more recently, the discussion of Mitt Romney's Mormonism caused me to return to the subject. I had purchased a book several years ago that I had not yet read, One Nation Under Gods (http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-Gods-History/dp/1568582838/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320251248&sr=1-1), on the history and doctrine of Mormonism, so I decided to read it and answer some of the questions I was having. Needless to say, it was rather eye-opening and has led me in quite a few different directions.

Perhaps my strongest reaction--because of my past encounters with sexually immoral pastors and the damage they do to the church--was disgust with what I interpret as the obvious predatory sexual behavior of Joseph Smith toward his Mormon 'congregation'. It is unmistakable, frankly, to anyone who has been in a pastoral role. And it's one of the reasons that I have a hard time taking anything connected with Joseph Smith very seriously, including the Mormon faith which he founded.

Most people have heard something about Mormons and polygamy, but very few know much about that part of early Mormon history. Neither did I, really. But the more I read in the course of my research, the more repugnant became the whole Mormon scheme of 'celestial marriage', 'spiritual wives', 'plural wives'. And no matter how it was eventually justified by the Mormon Church, it seemed to me that Mormon polygamy was really just another example of that familiar, age-old, male behavior. Nothing more, nothing less.

So who was responsible for initiating this morally repugant and unchristian sexual behavior in Mormonism? All of the recent historical accounts (Mormon and non-Mormon) point clearly to none other than Joseph Smith himself. He began slowly, by an illicit affair with a teenage servant girl living in his own home, Fanny Alger. Then another somewhat later. Then he began to solicit sexual favors from the wives or daughters of some of his Mormon members. Finally, in the last several years of his life, at the height of his power in Nauvoo, Illinois, he secretly promulgated the doctrine of 'celestial marriage', which was essentially what we would call polygamous marriage. Before he was through (or in his case, was assassinated), he had taken some 33 women as his 'wives' in the course of about 4 years time. And probably more than we don't know anything about. Plus he had encouraged most of his top leadership to do the same, most of whom (with some notable exceptions) found it to be a 'privilege' they couldn't refuse.

So it struck me that here was a man who really lost it and eventually became what we today would call a 'sexual addict'.

In order to help persuade you that what I'm saying has some validity, I want to share a very interesting excerpt from a book entitled Wife No. 19. Published in 1875 by Ann-Eliza Young (and available online (http://www.archive.org/details/wifenoorstoryofl00youniala) here as a free PDF), this book is a personal autobiographical account of a woman's life growing up in early Mormonism and her experience with polygamy. Indeed, she became the '19th' (out of 55) wife of none other than Mormon President Brigham Young--who succeeded Joseph Smith as Church President--and then wrote this book years later after she had been divorced from him. Her witness was largely responsible for the 'Poland Act', a federal law which outlawed polygamy.

Wife No. 19 is fascinating for many reasons, but the lengthy excerpt below (Chapter 3) is probably the most informative inside look at what actually happened in early Mormonism to initiate the sexual oddity (and moral monstrosity) known as Mormon Polygamy. (Any section in [ ] are added by me to aid in understanding.) You're going to love her wry sense of humor too. If you stick with, I think you'll be rewarded.

After the Revelation on Celestial Marriage [commanding ‘plural marriage’ or polygamy] was publicly announced, in 1852 , it was stated that Joseph Smith first produced it in 1843 [in Nauvoo, IL]; but there were, no doubt, hints of this new doctrine at a much earlier date. It is generally believed, and in fact well known by many of the old Nauvoo Mormons, that he had it in contemplation at a much earlier date ; certain indiscretions rendering it necessary that he should find an excuse of some kind for acts that were scarcely consistent with his position as "Vicegerent upon earth," and set himself right, not only with his followers, but with Mrs. Emma Smith, his wife, who objected very decidedly to some of his prophetic eccentricities.

Mrs. Smith had an adopted daughter [Fanny Alger], a very pretty, pleasing young girl, about seventeen years old. She was extremely fond of her; no own mother could be more devoted, and their affection for each other was a constant object of remark, so absorbing and genuine did it seem. Consequently it was with a shocked surprise that the people heard that sister Emma had turned Fanny out of the house in the night.

This sudden movement was incomprehensible, since Emma was known to be a just woman, not given to freaks or caprices, and it was felt that she certainly must have had some very good reason for her action. By degrees it became whispered about that Joseph's love for his adopted daughter was by no means a paternal affection, and his wife, discovering the fact, at once took measures to place the girl beyond his reach. Angered at finding the two persons whom most she loved playing such a treacherous part towards her, she by no means spared her reproaches, and, finally, the storm became so furious, that Joseph was obliged to send, at midnight, for Oliver Cowdery, his scribe, to come and endeavor to settle matters between them. For once he was at his wits' end; he could face an angry mob, but a wronged woman made a coward of him at once.

The scribe was a worthy servant of his master. He was at that time residing with a certain young woman, and at the same time he had a wife living. He had taken kindly to Joseph's teachings, although he by no means coveted publicity in the affair; and after seeing Mrs. Smith's indignation he dreaded exceedingly lest Mrs. Cowdery should discover that he was practising his new religious duties with another woman.

The worthy couple—the Prophet and his scribe—were sorely perplexed what to do with the girl, since Emma refused decidedly to allow her to remain in her house; but after some consultation, my mother [Mrs. Chauncey Webb] offered to take her until she could be sent to her relatives. Although her parents were living, they considered it the highest honor to have their daughter adopted into the Prophet's family, and her mother has always claimed that she was sealed to Joseph at that time.

The first public announcement Joseph ever made of his belief in the plurality of wives was at Nauvoo, in 1840. In a sermon one Sunday he declared that it was perfectly right in the sight of the Lord for a man to have as many wives as he pleased, if he could evade the laws of the land. Said he:

"People of polygamous nations will be converted to the church, and will desire to gather with the Saints to Zion; and what will they do with their wives? We must have polygamy among us as an established institution, and then they can bring all their wives with them."

He referred to the Bible to sustain his position, and grew very eloquent on the subject. He seemed determined not only to maintain the doctrine to his own satisfaction, but to convince his people of its truth and its desirability.

As may readily be imagined, it caused the greatest excitement and indignation in the church; and many threatened to abandon the faith. The women most especially were aroused, and they declared they never would accept a doctrine so hateful. It was the first open rebellion against any of the Prophet's teachings by his most devoted followers, and he was wise enough to see his mistake, and to rectify it. Evidently, as he said to certain followers, it was "to soon for the Lord to reveal Himself upon this subject."

The following Sabbath he arose, and said he wished to retract what he had said the Sabbath before; he was at that time only trying the Saints, to see what they could bear.

The Revelation at first was made known only to a few of Joseph's most intimate friends, and they were solemnly bound to keep its existence a secret; but in some way it became known very generally that there was such a Revelation, although it was not given to the world until 1852. It is on this ground that Smith's sons endeavor to palm the Revelation on to Brigham, and deny that their father ever intended to have polygamy become a church institution. The elder Mormons, who were at Nauvoo [before going to Utah after Smith’s death], among whom are my parents, know better than this, however, and also know the exact time when the "Revelation" was first talked of. If Smith was not a polygamist, his sons must allow that he was a libertine, or an advocate of free-love principles. It makes little difference which; the results are the same.

The wife of the Prophet took no more kindly to this new doctrine of Celestial Marriage than did the rest of the Mormon women, and no woman of them all allowed her objections to become so widely known as Mrs. Smith. She knew her husband's nature too well to believe in the Divine origin of the system, and she fought it persistently during his lifetime.

At one time he had eleven young ladies living in his family as adopted daughters, to whom he had been sealed [married by a Mormon priest] without the knowledge of his wife. She for some time supposed that his object in having them there was purely a charitable one. To be sure, some of them had parents living; yet there was some plausible reason always given for having them under his roof, which none of the Saints dared to question, although many of them, especially those who were growing disaffected, were dissatisfied with his reasons, and suspicious of his motives. Very little was said about it openly, until his wife saw something which aroused her suspicions, and she remonstrated with Joseph for having the girls there; but with no effect. The girls should remain--on that point he was decided.

Unlike many of the Mormon women, Mrs. Smith was not one to accept a cross of this kind submissively. She by no means bowed her head, broke her heart, and silenced her lips, and allowed her husband to pursue his licentious course without opposition. When Joseph would not send away the girls, she said very quietly, but with a determination which showed she was making no idle threat,--"Either those girls leave this house tonight, or I do."

"Very well," replied her husband, in a passion at having his authority questioned; "you may go, then, for I intend them to stay."

Without another word she left the house. No sooner had she gone than he began to consider the consequences of her departure directly should it be known, and she would keep neither it nor the cause which provoked her to the step a secret. The publicity of the affair was more than he dared meet. He was not yet ready to encounter the storm it would raise. Great as was his influence over his people, he did not dare risk his popularity by such a bold movement as this. Consequently he followed his wife, and prevailed upon her to return, by promising to dismiss the girls, which he did the next morning. This was her second triumph over his practice of the divine ordinance.

Emma Smith was, as may be supposed from the above narrated incidents, an energetic, strong-minded woman, possessing a great influence over Joseph, whose superior she was, both mentally and socially, when he married her
She was fond and proud of her husband during the first years of his success; but when there was any disagreement between them, she generally got the better of him, being less passionate in temper, and more quietly decided in manner. She forced her husband to respect her and her opinions, although he was notoriously unfaithful to her during all their married life.

Several young girls left the church in consequence of the dishonorable proposals which the Prophet made to them. One of these was a daughter of William Marks, another a daughter of Sidney Rigdon. Both these men—-Rigdon especially-—had been his warm friends and supporters; but this insult offered to their daughters exasperated them beyond measure, and both withdrew from him. Marks joined William Law and his apostate circle [who published a newspaper leading to Smith's assassination], and was as bitter in his denunciation as Law himself. Rigdon removed from Nauvoo, but still avowed himself a “true Mormon," while he repudiated Joseph and his teachings. Other young girls made affidavits to his offers of "Celestial Marriage," and their statements were published in many of the leading papers all over the country, creating the most intense excitement.

Joseph not only made his addresses to the young and unmarried women, but he sought "spiritual alliance" with many married ladies who happened to strike his fancy. He taught them that all former marriages were null and void, and that they were at perfect liberty to make another choice of a husband. The marriage covenants were not binding, because they were ratified only by Gentile [non-Mormon] laws. These laws the Lord did not recognize; consequently all the women were free.

Again, he would appeal to their religious sentiments, and their strong desire to enter into the celestial kingdom [the highest heaven where Mormons--and Mormons only--would be Gods]. He used often to argue in this manner while endeavoring to convince some wavering or unwilling victim: “Now, my dear sister, it is true that your husband is a very good man, but you and he are by no means kindred spirits, and he will never be able to save you in the celestial kingdom; it has been revealed by the Spirit that you ought to belong to [I]me.”

This sophistry, strange as it may seem, had its weight, and scarcely ever failed of its desired results. Many a woman, with a kind, good husband, who loved her and trusted her, and a family of children, would suffer herself to be sealed to Joseph, at the same time living with the husband whom she was wronging so deeply, he believing fondly that her love was all his own.
One woman said to me not very long since, while giving me some of her experiences in polygamy : "The greatest trial I ever endured in my life was living with my husband and deceiving him, by receiving Joseph's attentions whenever he chose to come to me."

This woman, and others, whose experience has been very similar, are among the very best women in the church; they are as pure-minded and virtuous women as any in the world. They were seduced under the guise of religion, taught that the Lord commanded it, and they submitted as to a cross laid upon them by the divine will. Believing implicitly in the Prophet, they never dreamed of questioning the truth of his revelations, and would have considered themselves on the verge of apostasy, which to a Mormon is a most dangerous and horrible state, from which there is no possible salvation, had they refused to submit to him and to receive his ‘divine’ doctrines.

Some of these women have since said they did not know who was the father of their children; this is not to be wondered at, for after Joseph's declaration annulling all Gentile marriages, the greatest promiscuity was practised; and, indeed, all sense of morality seemed to have been lost by a portion at least of the church. Shocking as all this may appear, women that were sealed to Joseph at that time are more highly respected than any others. It is said, as the highest meed of praise which can be given, that they never repudiated any of the Prophet's teachings, but submitted to all his requirements without a murmur, and eventually they will be exalted to a high position in the celestial kingdom....

It had always been a practice of Joseph, whenever he met with any difficulty, to receive a "Revelation," which immediately put everything straight. On the present occasion he was equal to the emergency, and received that celebrated "Revelation" which then and since has constituted the sole authority in the Mormon Church for the practice of polygamy. It was at first only communicated to a chosen few, and it was not until long after polygamy had been practised more or less openly in Utah that Brigham Young delivered it to the world in 1852. It was then published in the Seer and also in the Millennial Star under the title of “CELESTIAL MARRIAGE: A REVELATION ON THE PATRIARCHAL ORDER OF MATRIMONY, OR PLURALITY OF WIVES” [Doctrine and Covenants No. 132].

Of all the extraordinary "revelations" given by Joseph Smith during his eventful career, this is, perhaps, the most remarkable. It certainly produced a deeper and more lasting influence upon his deluded followers than all his other effusions put together, although its language is as ungrammatical as its tendency is immoral.

Janadele

25th August 2012, 09:41 PM

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-to-expect-at-church-services

If you are considering attending a local Latter-day Saint congregation, we welcome you! We appreciate you taking the time to understand our faith and our people better. Visiting our local congregations and seeing how a ward (what we call our congregations) works are key to understanding what Latter-day Saints believe and how that belief translates into our worship with and service to one another. Your visit will be reflective of Latter-day Saint worship around the world.

Please remember, however, that Sunday services are worship services. You will find an atmosphere of friendship and sociability as well as reverence.

Janadele

25th August 2012, 09:46 PM

Tumbleweed. Bearing false witness against a Prophet of God has dire consequences. You would do better to seek correct information instead from official LDS sources.

Skirnir_

25th August 2012, 10:31 PM

Personal attacks are off topic to this thread.

If you kiss my ass, I'll give you half of Tau Boötis b.

Janadele

25th August 2012, 10:35 PM

Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including President Thomas S. Monson, have made it clear that all religions hold truths and that we should work together for the common good. In his inaugural press conference, President Monson emphasized this cooperation. He stated, “We have a responsibility to be active in the communities where we live … and to work cooperatively with other churches. … It’s important that we eliminate the weakness of one standing alone and substitute for it the strength of people working together.”

Our joint effort should be to protect important civic values like honesty, morality, self-restraint, respect for law, and basic human rights. An important study established, “The associations between religious freedoms and other civil liberties, press freedoms, and political freedoms are especially striking.” If we fail to diligently protect religious freedom, we risk diminishing other important freedoms that are important both to society and to us.

Our challenge is to help people without religious faith understand that the protection of moral principles grounded in religion is a great benefit to society and that religious devotion is critical to public virtue.

mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/religious-freedom and
mormonnewsroom.org/article/introduction-religious-freedom.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/the-mormon-ethic-of-civility

Tumbleweed

26th August 2012, 04:55 AM

Tumbleweed. Bearing false witness against a Prophet of God has dire consequences. You would do better to seek correct information instead from official LDS sources.

Joseph Smith was no profit of god. He was a sexual pervert who was involved with the occult.

Tumbleweed

26th August 2012, 05:00 AM

Janadele

26th August 2012, 08:36 AM

You will answer for such blasphemy to your dismay when you pass from mortality.

No other religious denomination makes known its history as does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even personal journals of Joseph Smith can be seen at http://josephsmithpapers.org/

Online at official LDS sites such as http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng is enough reading material for a lifetime. No need to waste time with Lucifers lies and misinformation from the anti-Mormon sites.

freespirit

26th August 2012, 08:50 AM

You will answer for such blasphemy to your dismay when you pass from mortality.

.

...as will you for this thread.

Janadele

26th August 2012, 09:07 AM

The fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was lost from the earth through the apostasy following the earthly ministry of Christ’s Apostles. That apostasy made necessary the Restoration... through visions, the ministering of angels, the personal appearance of God the Father and Jesus Christ, and continuing revelations to the Lord’s living Prophets.

The Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, Isa. 2:2 (Micah 4:2; 2 Ne. 12:2).
God will do a marvellous work and a wonder, Isa. 29:14 (2 Ne. 25:17–18; D&C 4:1).
God shall set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed, Dan. 2:44
Elias will come, and restore all things, Matt. 17:11 (Mark 9:12; D&C 77:14).
There will come times of restitution of all things, Acts 3:21 (D&C 27:6).
In the dispensation of the fulness of times, God will gather together in one all things, Eph. 1:10
I saw another angel, having the everlasting gospel to preach, Rev. 14:6

millwright

26th August 2012, 09:09 AM

Skirnir_

26th August 2012, 09:51 AM

This is what Janaspammer needs to do with her computer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWA_jr-AwyA

♪♫ Turn it off ♪♫ Like a light ♪♫ switch

Janadele

26th August 2012, 01:48 PM

These attacks on LDS Prophets are not only off topic rude harassment but also religious discrimination. Would such attacks be allowed against the Pope?

k-os

26th August 2012, 04:14 PM

These attacks on LDS Prophets are not only off topic rude harassment but also religious discrimination. Would such attacks be allowed against the Pope?

Aha! There it is again! Hey Janadele, who are you going to report this to? And what in the world makes you think that people on this board are not "allowed" to say whatever the F they want? Have you read any threads on here other than this one and the Mitt ones?

Skirnir_

26th August 2012, 04:32 PM

These attacks on LDS Prophets are not only off topic rude harassment but also religious discrimination. Would such attacks be allowed against the Pope?

I shit in the Pope's silly hat.

StreetsOfGold

26th August 2012, 09:42 PM

I shit in the Pope's silly hat.

Dagon would be quite upset.

Janadele

27th August 2012, 12:06 PM

and rightly so.

Horn

27th August 2012, 04:10 PM

Video 10% contribution towards a new thread topic directed towards religious discrimination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWHZuHIu3rc&feature=player_embedded

ImaCannin

27th August 2012, 04:40 PM

Ignoramus......

chad

27th August 2012, 05:32 PM

Aha! There it is again! Hey Janadele, who are you going to report this to? And what in the world makes you think that people on this board are not "allowed" to say whatever the F they want? Have you read any threads on here other than this one and the Mitt ones?

religious discrimination, laughing my ass off on that one.

Tumbleweed

27th August 2012, 05:43 PM

These attacks on LDS Prophets are not only off topic rude harassment but also religious discrimination. Would such attacks be allowed against the Pope?

The catholic church has been under attack for the last two thousand years. It has been infiltrated and so have the protestant churches by jews and masons. Joe Smith was another one of Satans helpers working to destroy christianity. I'm not sure the pope is catholic because of his making nice witht the Jews and Muslims. You could read "the plot against the church" by Maurice Pinay that explains the attacks against christianity. It's available online to read for free.

PatColo

28th August 2012, 04:13 AM

Janadele, does LDS have a position on the morality/immorality of GAMBLING?

IE are LDS members in good standing, allowed to gamble? How about operating a casino, though they themselves don't gamble?

What Sheldon Adelson Wants (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/what-sheldon-adelson-wants.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha211_20120624)

http://www.thenation.com/sites/default/files/user/20/sheldon_adelson_rtr_img.jpg

nytimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/what-sheldon-adelson-wants.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha211_20120624)

No American is dedicating as much of his money to defeat President Obama as Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate who also happens to have made more money in the last three years than any other American. He is the perfect illustration of the squalid state of political money, spending sums greater than any political donation in history to advance his personal, ideological and financial agenda, which is wildly at odds with the nation’s needs.

Mr. Adelson spent $20 million to prop up Newt Gingrich’s failed candidacy for the Republican nomination. Now, he has given $10 million to a Mitt Romney super PAC, and has pledged at least $10 million to Crossroads GPS, the advocacy group founded by Karl Rove that is running attack ads against Mr. Obama and other Democrats. Another $10 million will probably go to a similar group founded by the Koch brothers, and $10 million more to Republican Congressional super PACs.

That’s $60 million we know of (other huge donations may be secret), and it may be only a down payment. Mr. Adelson has made it clear he will fully exploit the anything-goes world created by the federal courts to donate a “limitless” portion of his $25 billion fortune to defeat the president and as many Democrats as he can take down.

One man cannot spend enough to ensure the election of an unpopular candidate, as Mr. Gingrich’s collapse showed, but he can buy enough ads to help push a candidate over the top in a close race like this year’s. Given that Mr. Romney was not his first choice, why is Mr. Adelson writing these huge checks?

The first answer is clearly his disgust for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, supported by President Obama and most Israelis. He considers a Palestinian state “a steppingstone for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people,” and has called the Palestinian prime minister a terrorist. He is even further to the right than the main pro-Israeli lobbying group, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which he broke with in 2007 when it supported economic aid to the Palestinians.

Mr. Romney is only slightly better, saying the Israelis want a two-state solution but the Palestinians do not, accusing them of wanting to eliminate Israel. The eight-figure checks are not paying for a more enlightened answer.

Mr. Adelson’s other overriding interest is his own wallet. He rails against the president’s “socialist-style economy” and redistribution of wealth, but what he really fears is Mr. Obama’s proposal to raise taxes on companies like his that make a huge amount of money overseas. Ninety percent of the earnings of his company, the Las Vegas Sands Corporation, come from hotel and casino properties in Singapore and Macau. (The latter is located, by the way, in China, a socialist country the last time we checked.)

Because of the lower tax rate in those countries (currently zero in Macau), the company now has a United States corporate tax rate of 9.8 percent, compared with the statutory rate of 35 percent. President Obama has repeatedly proposed ending the deductions and credits that allow corporations like Las Vegas Sands to shelter billions in income overseas, but has been blocked by Republicans.

Mr. Obama’s Justice Department is also investigating whether Mr. Adelson’s Macau operations violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, an inquiry that Mr. Adelson undoubtedly hopes will go away in a Romney administration. For such a man, at a time when there are no legal or moral limits to the purchase of influence, spending tens of millions is a pittance to elect Republicans who promise to keep his billions intact.